Madara and Hashirama were at the same level, although not equal

[Sakura x Ino]

Lord Teuchi > Hashirama > Madara
They are but mere fodder to him

 

[KCMNaruto]

Madara with Kyuubi was little stronger than hashirama.

EMS Madara and SM Hashirama are equal

I already said that the first time madara got EMS he was weaker than SM Hashirama i mean this fight:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

But after that fight EMS Madara and SM Hashirama were Equal
Krishi moto has kept a lot of info missing in those fights

Well sorry buddy but I agree only partially.
First I believe in firts time EMS Madara went all out at Hashirama and this is where he has learned about Hashirama having Sage mode and finally buddha. He also used Limbo powered down to see Hashirama can counter it, so it would be useless to use unless he was forced to and hashirama was out of Sage mode. I believe both EMS Madara PS and SM Hashirama Mokyujin stalemated or were on equal grounds then Hashirama summoned buddha shattering Madara's PS and defeating Madara low diff the most.

It was this event when Madara learned that he can not beat SM Hashirama going all out at him as Buddha is problem.
Madara decided to summon Kyuubi for that purpouse. Of course Madara was too hasty to summon Kyuubi as he could force Hashirama to enter SM via his PS alone then summon Kyuubi and shroud it with PS so madara would preserve a lot of chakra to fighting against SM Hashirama's buddha having chance to win.

As I said: SM Hashirama with Buddha ~ EMS Madara with Kyuubi under control > SM Hashirama with Myojin ~ EMS Madara with PS > Base Hashirama

I know what you mean by enhanced, but the chakra just prolong and increase the ocular powers eyes.

Like when Kakashi had rikudou chakra, it negated the deteorance despite not having Hashirama/Ashura's chakra.

It didn't increase Perfect a Susanoo's strength, it didn't allow Kakashi to create a black hole the size of Kaguya's Gudodama either.

It accurated the eyes performance to infinite levels

You understand where I'm implying though right?

I like your theory but....

@ bold part, But it did. The size of attack as visual effect isn't just one of meassure to say attack is stronger. Attack can still be more potent and stronger but it couldn't be noticed unless used on something to see more damage on it. Even Sasuke's PS of Indra's reincarnation with Yin chakra of Sage powering him up got his PS shattered By Kaguya's attack.

It was still immpresive for Kakashi's Sussano to even withstand comming in contact with first ash bone. Also Kakashi as such genious noted a lot of times should know what he is talking about.

The strength/potence of technique got increased, that all matter.

Rikudou chakra would enhance powered down MS limbo by:

- making it only damagebale by Rikudou chakra
- making it only senseable by Rikudou Senjutsu
- making it only seeable by Rinnegan or Tomoe Rinnegan

before it could be sensed via Normal Sage mode, damaged by powerfull NO Rikudou chakra powered attack and could be seeable by Doujutsu or any MS and higher.

It is also possible it was less durable back then, also if limbo clone can use all techniques then it lacked six paths powers back then, relaying mainly on Sussano.

 

[ad0]

Who won that fight again?



Who was using the Kyuubi just to keep up?

Good points you have

But Hashirama used Nature power which Sage mode?
While Madara used 9 Tails which is Tails beast powers?

Proof of Equal Abilities:
Madara Has Outer Patch
Hashirama has Wood Dragon

It show they both have equal Abilities

The fight of Edo madara vs Edo Hashirama will Reveil Madara's and Hashirama True Strenght

 

[Demonic.]

Good points you have

But Hashirama used Nature power which Sage mode?
While Madara used 9 Tails which is Tails beast powers?

Proof of Equal Abilities:
Madara Has Outer Patch
Hashirama has Wood Dragon

It show they both have equal Abilities

The fight of Edo madara vs Edo Hashirama will Reveil Madara's and Hashirama True Strenght

Lol, the anime will just show Madara being bound by wood dragon in the end

 

[Bronze]

Madara, after obtaining Eien Mangekyou Sharingan, became stronger than Hashirama. Evident that he resorted to Izanagi for his plan's sake.​

 

[KCMNaruto]

Lol, the anime will just show Madara being bound by wood dragon in the end

I hope not

Madara, after obtaining Eien Mangekyou Sharingan, became stronger than Hashirama. Evident that he resorted to Izanagi for his plan's sake.​

Nope, but the manga support this: SM Hashirama with Buddha ~ EMS Madara with Kyuubi under control > SM Hashirama with Myojin ~ EMS Madara with PS > Base Hashirama

 

[VongolaX]

Well sorry buddy but I agree only partially.
First I believe in firts time EMS Madara went all out at Hashirama and this is where he has learned about Hashirama having Sage mode and finally buddha. He also used Limbo powered down to see Hashirama can counter it, so it would be useless to use unless he was forced to and hashirama was out of Sage mode. I believe both EMS Madara PS and SM Hashirama Mokyujin stalemated or were on equal grounds then Hashirama summoned buddha shattering Madara's PS and defeating Madara low diff the most.

It was this event when Madara learned that he can not beat SM Hashirama going all out at him as Buddha is problem.
Madara decided to summon Kyuubi for that purpouse. Of course Madara was too hasty to summon Kyuubi as he could force Hashirama to enter SM via his PS alone then summon Kyuubi and shroud it with PS so madara would preserve a lot of chakra to fighting against SM Hashirama's buddha having chance to win.

As I said: SM Hashirama with Buddha ~ EMS Madara with Kyuubi under control > SM Hashirama with Myojin ~ EMS Madara with PS > Base Hashirama



@ bold part, But it did. The size of attack as visual effect isn't just one of meassure to say attack is stronger. Attack can still be more potent and stronger but it couldn't be noticed unless used on something to see more damage on it. Even Sasuke's PS of Indra's reincarnation with Yin chakra of Sage powering him up got his PS shattered By Kaguya's attack.

It was still immpresive for Kakashi's Sussano to even withstand comming in contact with first ash bone. Also Kakashi as such genious noted a lot of times should know what he is talking about.

The strength/potence of technique got increased, that all matter.

Rikudou chakra would enhance powered down MS limbo by:

- making it only damagebale by Rikudou chakra
- making it only senseable by Rikudou Senjutsu
- making it only seeable by Rinnegan or Tomoe Rinnegan

before it could be sensed via Normal Sage mode, damaged by powerfull NO Rikudou chakra powered attack and could be seeable by Doujutsu or any MS and higher.

It is also possible it was less durable back then, also if limbo clone can use all techniques then it lacked six paths powers back then, relaying mainly on Sussano.

The ash bone attack one shot Susanoo...

You didn't see it?

He had to phase through it

On top of that, would we say that EMS Madara's perfect Susanoo is less durable Obito's rikudou chakra perfect Susanoo?

We need proof, and it will further bring out some answers too.

Surely enough to my suprise, Madara's limbo clone didn't use six path techniques against rikudou mode naruto....

Pretty sure he can, but chose not to...who well.

 

[3MESSIAH]

i know what you mean but they were stil equal in my book....given it was madara`s plan to lose in the first place in order to conceal himself.....why else set the izanagi for the future to rewrite his death....plus hashirama barely defeated madara which is evident to his fatigue after

 

[KCMNaruto]

i know what you mean but they were stil equal in my book....given it was madara`s plan to lose in the first place in order to conceal himself.....why else set the izanagi for the future to rewrite his death....plus hashirama barely defeated madara which is evident to his fatigue after

exactly

 

[VongolaX]

i know what you mean but they were stil equal in my book....given it was madara`s plan to lose in the first place in order to conceal himself.....why else set the izanagi for the future to rewrite his death....plus hashirama barely defeated madara which is evident to his fatigue after

Unfortunetly not many people see it that way

 

[KisuneUchiha]

Base Hashirama> EMS Madara
SM> Hashirama> EMS Madara with Kyuubi
cheat code enhanced faildara is another story though.

Your obviously drunk
EMS Madara>= Base Hashirama
EMS Madara << SM Hashirama

 

[xxSAGExx]

Hello guys I am a little bored so I would like to fill manga's holes in Madara vs Hashirama battle with my own scripted battle connecting to final canon stuff.

First, Madara was never surprised when Hashirama has enter Sage mode for first on-screen. Buddha also didn't make Madara's schocked or scared which means Madara already has seen it in action.

Madara's reaction:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Second, Hashirama was forced to use Sage mode against EMS Madara when he has attacked him first time, and maybe buddha but back then buddha was too strong and shattered Madara's Perfect Sussano.

I mean this battle:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

Third, based on Hashirama's face reaction to Madara pulling Sussano he was not surprised it means MS Madara used Sussano against him back then. Most likely Izuna had it as well.


Now based on my theory that Madara's ms abiltites are:

- seeing through all kind of clones and ability to differ clone from original
- degraded version of Limbo's clone

Hashirama was forced to use Sage mode to sense and deal with Madara's degraded Limbo version.
After estabilishing all that stuff. I would like to add my own script for off-screen battle of Hashirama vs Madara. I mean from this moment:

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

^^ as we saw the last panel before Kishi decided to went off-screen was close up on Madara's EMS pattern, which always imply use of MS abiltity as Kishi has done each time.

My script for cut part of battle:

Spoiler

[Hashirama jumps to side]
[Close up on Madara's EMS]
Madara: You will pay for stealing Kyuubi from me, Hashirama ! (run towards him)
[Madara begin to punching and kicking trying to hit Hashirama who anticipate every move avoiding or blocking them.]
Hashirama: It is not use, Madara (begin to counter by throwing punch at Madara's face)
[Madara watches Hashirama's in slow motion in his Chokou Tomoe EMS vision leaning slightly to side avoiding attack]
Hashirama: ?! (throws more punches and kicks, but Madara keep evading then block few strikes finally)
Madara/Hashirama: Damn you ! (jumps away from each other)
Madara: Close combat fight is no use, takes this Fire Release: Great Fire Annihilation !
[Madara blows powerfull fire stream at Hashirama who weave handseal as wall made of wood rises up]
Hashirama: Wood release: Wood walls !
Madara: (having trouble to breath in and out) tsk *I will use Limbo then* (focus on right eye) Limbo Hengoku !
Hashirama(still in sage mode): *this is it, he has no enough chakra to use Sussano of enough level to destroy it* Wood Release: Great Forest Technique ! (clap hands)
[Massive amount of roots sprout from ground emerging from ground and growing into full forest]
[Madara jumps back avoiding branches trying to trap him by doing back flip and landing few meters back]
Hashirama: (notices Madara panting) I will finish this Madara, get read- ?! (sense something)
[Hashirama moves to side as trying to avoid incomming attack]
Hashirama: Didn't you learn from our last time, Madara ?! special ability of your right eye won't work on me as long as I have Sage mode active.
Madara: *Damn... he is right. He can not see it but he can sense it* do not understimate me, Hashirama.
Hashirama: ?! (notices fire ball comming at his back from nowhere)
[Hashirama clap his hands creating wood dome around him protecting him from giant fireball]
[Fireball clashes with wood dome's surface blowing part of it as it smokes.]
Hashirama: *Damn... him, I am getting low on chakra as well* I will end this Madara (wood dome opens up)
Hashirama: Wood Release: Advent of a World of Flowering Trees !
[Giant flower-forest sprouts from ground towering over Madara. Flower emits sleeping pollen]
Madara: *pollen... he is trying to put me to sleep or posion me !* (get affected)
Hashirama: There is no way to flee Madara, admit you lose.
[Shadow of Madara in black and white colors completes handseals doing big breath of air]
Madara's shadow: Fire Release: Great Fire Destruction ! (blow intense stream of fire)
[Massive thick amount of fire reaches Flower three world engulfing it and burning it completly to ashes.]
Hashirama: ?!damn... so due to your brother's and your's eyes merging you can keep Limbo longer then before
[Real Madara get up on his feet as sleeping pollen fades away. Instantly roots emerge from ground trying to catch him but Madara jumps back in time throwing shuriken with explosive note at aproaching roots.]
Hashirama(struggles to maintain Sage mode): Tsk?! *Here Madara's shadow comes ?!*
[Hashirama throws smoke bomb on ground shrouding the battlefield]
Madara: *what is he up to * ?!
[Some wood clones emerge from ground from Madara's back trying to occupy him]
[Meanwhile as smoke scatter many Hashirama's are shown. Noone stay in Sage mode. Buddha is absent also.]
Hashirama: *I will wait for Madara's shadow to attack. He should attack any of me. He wouldn't differ original from clones as Madara could *
Hashirama: ?! (Hashirama caugh blood as he is shown wounded in chest)
[Madara is shown finally dealing with clones as he lands on ground panting even more]
Madara: Due to my new eyes, my previous powers get stronger. Now my shadow's can also use all ms techniques of mine ?!
[Wood clones around Hashirama turns in wood sticks as Hashirama forms handseal]
Hashirama: Sealing barrier: wrath of holy buddha !
Madara: tsk *too bad my shadow can creates another shadow,You will fall Hashirama*(smirks) ?!
[Madara's vision shows Two shadows of Madara frozen in place unable to move]
Madara: Damn you (try to make shadow breaking of sealing barrier but it won't work) ?! *that positon of clones ?!*
[Madara's shadow fuses back with first shadow as Madara's EMS pattern fades away]
Hashirama(serious): Finally, we will comunicate with our fists ,Madara. (releases barrier)
Madara's shadow comes back to Madara fusing with his real body
[roots and remaining of forest dissolves into ground as Madara and Hashirama glare at each other]

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

^^ The rest of cannon battle happen

I've been saying this for awhile myself, same thing with Naruto and Sasuke. Kishi is just pulling off a Goku and Vegeta thing except Hashirama was always stronger than Madara.

 

[Demonic.]

i know what you mean but they were stil equal in my book....given it was madara`s plan to lose in the first place in order to conceal himself.....why else set the izanagi for the future to rewrite his death....plus hashirama barely defeated madara which is evident to his fatigue after

That's because that's your interpretation. Izanagi could have also just been a precaution....and Hashirama barely managed to defeat Madara with Kurama so Madara needed Kurama just to be on par wih Hashirama

 

[KCMNaruto]

That's because that's your interpretation. Izanagi could have also just been a precaution....and Hashirama barely managed to defeat Madara with Kurama so Madara needed Kurama just to be on par wih SM Hashirama going all out

fixed for you,

The buddha makes such difference. EMS Madara could stalemate with SM Hashirama buddha restricted.

SM Hashirama with Buddha: 100
EMS Madara with Kyuubi: 95
SM Hashirama without Buddha: 60
EMS Madara PS: 60

 

[xxSAGExx]

That's because that's your interpretation. Izanagi could have also just been a precaution....and Hashirama barely managed to defeat Madara with Kurama so Madara needed Kurama just to be on par wih Hashirama

Not really, base Hashirama was handling both Madara and Hashirama for their hours of fighting and only pulled out SM to end it which was when they were both exhausted. Hashirama was trying to TNJ Madara until he went SM and said he didn't want to kill Madara. Also Hashirama had Bijuus 2-8 at that time but never needed to use then.

 

[Awkward Linguist]

still hashirama owns madara

owned .

 

[Demonic.]

fixed for you,

The buddha makes such difference. EMS Madara could stalemate with SM Hashirama buddha restricted.

SM Hashirama with Buddha: 100
EMS Madara with Kyuubi: 95
SM Hashirama without Buddha: 60
EMS Madara PS: 60

That may be true except that the Buddha is Hashirama's own personal arsenal, whereas Kurama is not. So your "SM Hashirama without the Buddha" is moot.

 

[narutoblitz]

In the final battle,Madara was toying with Hashirama. Once he resurrected he easily subdued both Hashirama, Tobirama and EMS Sasuke.

 

[KidGamer65]

Fanfic is way too strong with this one.

 

[narutoblitz]

In the end Hashirama wasnt able to stop Madara. I think logically speaking Hashirama > Madara. Madara with senjutsu chakra or Rinnegan ends that equality.