Madara > 4th Hokage?

[Steinbiz]

I hate to say it, but i think the 4th hokage just admitted that madara was stronger than him. at page 10 of the latest manga, 4th says "on that night...he saw through every move I tried to make..."

does that mean that madara fought the 4th and won?

i don't get how the 1st hokage beat madara but the 4th hokage didn't????

I CHANGE MY MIND, I WAS LOOKING AT HOW HE SAID IT DIFFERENTLY

yondaime > madara

 

[Nameer]

No,he mean there is someone behind the Fox attack (controlling The Fox),He didn't fight him because he was busy with the Fox until he sacrificed himself by sealing the Fox into his son

 

[JustMyself]

I hate to say it, but i think the 4th hokage just admitted that madara was stronger than him. at page 10 of the latest manga, 4th says "on that night...he saw through every move I tried to make..."

does that mean that madara fought the 4th and won?

i don't get how the 1st hokage beat madara but the 4th hokage didn't????

Nope, I think he said tobi was watching yond's movements at the same time kyuubi attacked. Yond noticed him but was busy trying to stop the nine tails... that's what I think.
If it's true that yond tried to fight madara and lose, so that mean madara just pretended to be defeated by shodaime (1st).
Anyway, that's something to be discussed.

 

[Steinbiz]

No,he mean there is someone behind the Fox attack (controlling The Fox),He didn't fight him because he was busy with the Fox until he sacrificed himself by sealing the Fox into his son

he could have been fighting with madara before he sealed the fox though.

 

[roflcopter]

does that mean that madara fought the 4th and won?

i don't get how the 1st hokage beat madara but the 4th hokage didn't????

The 1st Hokage had the ability to control Tailed beasts so probably madara wasnt able to use Kyyubi against 1st Hokage.

The other reason could be that Madara gained some extraordinary powers after the fight vs 1st Hokage.

But to be frank, I dont think that Madara is/was really stronger than 4th... Yes, 4th said that Madara could see all his moves but remember- 4th was fighting Kyyubi and not him, so Madara saw all the moves which were ment to be against FOX and controlled fox in a way so that fox would avoid the negative effect of those moves.

There is also one more thing I am interested in. After Fox got sealed, 4th died, Konoha was in a very bad condition, half of the ninjas were dead/injured. If Madara is stronger than Pain, why didnt he destroy Konoha himself, after 4th sealed the fox. 4th was dead sothere was noone left to put a fight.
The plot is a little bit strange and needs a bit more explanation.

 

[roflcopter]

If it's true that yond tried to fight madara and lose, so that mean madara just pretended to be defeated by shodaime (1st).

Cant agree on this. That would make Madara umm.... GOD>?

 

[Steinbiz]

The 1st Hokage had the ability to control Tailed beasts so probably madara wasnt able to use Kyyubi against 1st Hokage.

The other reason could be that Madara gained some extraordinary powers after the fight vs 1st Hokage.

But to be frank, I dont think that Madara is/was really stronger than 4th... Yes, 4th said that Madara could see all his moves but remember- 4th was fighting Kyyubi and not him, so Madara saw all the moves which were ment to be against FOX and controlled fox in a way so that fox would avoid the negative effect of those moves.

There is also one more thing I am interested in. After Fox got sealed, 4th died, Konoha was in a very bad condition, half of the ninjas were dead/injured. If Madara is stronger than Pain, why didnt he destroy Konoha himself, after 4th sealed the fox. 4th was dead sothere was noone left to put a fight.
The plot is a little bit strange and needs a bit more explanation.

actually you helped me realize that, yes madara saw yondaime's moves, but needed the fox to counter them. or maybe was just using the fox at the time. so if yondaime ever faced the kyuubi without being controlled by madara, he could've defeated kyuubi without sacrificing himself.

plus i agree, if the 4th was dead and konoha was in "bad shape". why didn't "mr. all powerful madara" just destroy konoha?

 

[Nameer]

he could have been fighting with madara before he sealed the fox though.

if you read the manga carefully about what Minato said "I realized something,there was someone controlling the fox when it attacked the village"
that mean he didn't have the chance to fight him and he don't know that the masked guy is Madara

 

[roflcopter]

Haha, yes, there are such contradictions in Naruto nowadays.

On one hand, Madara is such a strong shinobi with extraordinary powers who could see even through all of Yondaime moves and could control Kyuubi.

On the other hand he didnt fight anyone directly since 1st Hokage, did he? He didnt even wanna kill Kakashi's team and so on. He could've captured Naruto that time.

SO there are several conclusion which come to my mind.

Madara doesnt want everything to happen directly he wants everyone to do smth for him. No matter who that is *Kyyubi, pain, sasuke* even if it is more time consuming.

Madara isnt powerfull enough to do it.

Madara is a strange character.

 

[master shinobi]

Itachi said that madara was a shell of his former self so i believe that after he was beaten by the 1st hokage he wasn't able to heal and recover completely after all the damage he had taken lol must have been a messy fight
But after that he must been able to survive due to the ems so by using genjutsu and some tricks he had left up his sleeve like that teleportation jutsu at speed of light he was able to fool strong guys like kakuzu and pain to join him and form akatsuki so he would be able to use them to gain back some of the power he lost by collecting the bijuu to become the most powerful shinobi ann by some way take revangeon everyone.

Or he might be trying hide his true identity by acting as the idiotic tobi character so he could hide his real plan and be able to plot even further undisturbed.
He could have become more poweful then when he fought the 1st now.
It could be either one what do u guys think?

 

[Steinbiz]

Itachi said that madara was a shell of his former self so i believe that after he was beaten by the 1st hokage he wasn't able to heal and recover completely after all the damage he had taken lol must have been a messy fight
But after that he must been able to survive due to the ems so by using genjutsu and some tricks he had left up his sleeve like that teleportation jutsu at speed of light he was able to fool strong guys like kakuzu and pain to join him and form akatsuki so he would be able to use them to gain back some of the power he lost by collecting the bijuu to become the most powerful shinobi ann by some way take revangeon everyone.

Or he might be trying hide his true identity by acting as the idiotic tobi character so he could hide his real plan and be able to plot even further undisturbed.
He could have become more poweful then when he fought the 1st now.
It could be either one what do u guys think?

well i think he coulnd't defeat the 4th because, yes he could read the 4th's movements, but had to use the fox to counter them.

remember the fight between sasuke and lee. sasuke could later read lee's movements but couldn't keep up because his body wasn't fast enough. same thing goes with yondaime and madara.

 

[pervysage101]

Haha, yes, there are such contradictions in Naruto nowadays.

On one hand, Madara is such a strong shinobi with extraordinary powers who could see even through all of Yondaime moves and could control Kyuubi.

On the other hand he didnt fight anyone directly since 1st Hokage, did he? He didnt even wanna kill Kakashi's team and so on. He could've captured Naruto that time.

SO there are several conclusion which come to my mind.

Madara doesnt want everything to happen directly he wants everyone to do smth for him. No matter who that is *Kyyubi, pain, sasuke* even if it is more time consuming.

Madara isnt powerfull enough to do it.

Madara is a strange character.

well said

 

[naturo9]

maybe when the 4th defeated the kyuubi and maybe at the same time madara as well. madara used the kyuubi to destroy konoha not himself coz he knows there was 3rd hokage plus minato. it was a failure from madara so we can considered it he lost. he needs to regain his strenght and use other powerful shinobi to destroy konoha that why's he created A-team? maybe. just my thought.

 

[master shinobi]

I dont remember were i read it but someone stated that madara is able to move at the speed of light if he is that fast he would be easily keep up with the flying thunder god juitsu's speed.
If we assume that he is that strong and he would wipe out the leaf village then none of the rest of the story up to this point would be able the happen it would hurt the story.

 

[Steinbiz]

I dont remember were i read it but someone stated that madara is able to move at the speed of light if he is that fast he would be easily keep up with the flying thunder god juitsu's speed.
If we assume that he is that strong and he would wipe out the leaf village then none of the rest of the story up to this point would be able the happen it would hurt the story.

both madara and yondaime can move at the speed of light. they just do it differently. yondaime uses kunai's or seals to teleport simoutaneously. madara just teleports 1 spot at a time.

 

[roflcopter]

well i think he coulnd't defeat the 4th because, yes he could read the 4th's movements, but had to use the fox to counter them.

remember the fight between sasuke and lee. sasuke could later read lee's movements but couldn't keep up because his body wasn't fast enough. same thing goes with yondaime and madara.

Precisely!

 

[Nidaime]

Madara was always in the village remember that. Itachi even said that he came back to the village to train him and make him stronger to get his plan ready. He was probably there and watching Yondaime while Itachi was busy and just waited waited until the right time to move was just right.

 

[roflcopter]

I dont remember were i read it but someone stated that madara is able to move at the speed of light if he is that fast he would be easily keep up with the flying thunder god juitsu's speed.
If we assume that he is that strong and he would wipe out the leaf village then none of the rest of the story up to this point would be able the happen it would hurt the story.

yer, that is what i was thinking about. To sum up: If madara can wipe up the whole village whats the point of hiring pein's Kyubis and other creatures

The only possible answer is that he doesnt want all responsibility to lie on him. But whats the point if he's god?

 

[Sekireis]

Madara got Sharigan YOOO thats why he could see trough yondaime's moves

 

[roflcopter]

Madara was always in the village remember that. Itachi even said that he came back to the village to train him and make him stronger to get his plan ready. He was probably there and watching Yondaime while Itachi was busy and just waited waited until the right time to move was just right.

Err he couldnt watch youndaime while Itachi was "busy". Cuz Yondaime was alredy dead when itachi was 3