[Discussion] Madar was right not trusting the village

[Mynnahling]

I enjoyed the dynamics in this chapter. I liked how it showed that all the main shinobi really did have the villages future in mind. Even Tobirama, with his obvious biases, was working for the villages interests not his own. He though Hashiramas actions were like that of his fathers, those of a strong clan leader but the village was no longer a clan but a collection of them.

If Izuna had been alive would he not have been a similar influence on Madara? I saw Madaras departure as a culmination of various factors not just Tobiramas fault. The village elected Hashirama and Tobirama so shouldn't they shoulder some of the blame? In failing to recognizethe other half of the founders of the Konoha, the village confirmed to Madara his fear that the Uchiha will inevitably be marginalized.

 

[spike2068]

Yea its a realistic point, I hope sasuke decide a important decision After hearing all the story

If we are going to play that game we will never find who is truly responsible since we can say someone caused that hate in tobiramas heart. Maybe he saw some uchiha kill his brother. The same way that your blaming tobirama for madaas actions that lead to tobis actions that lead to sasukes actions, we can also blame tobiramas actions on circumstance if we want to. By your logic no one in the NV is ever the one at fault for the war crimes they have committed we get to blame it all on someone else.

 

[spike2068]

I enjoyed the dynamics in this chapter. I liked how it showed that all the main shinobi really did have the villages future in mind. Even Tobirama, with his obvious biases, was working for the villages interests not his own. He though Hashiramas actions were like that of his fathers, those of a strong clan leader but the village was no longer a clan but a collection of them.

If Izuna had been alive would he not have been a similar influence on Madara? I saw Madaras departure as a culmination of various factors not just Tobiramas fault. The village elected Hashirama and Tobirama so shouldn't they shoulder some of the blame? In failing to recognizethe other half of the founders of the Konoha, the village confirmed to Madara his fear that the Uchiha will inevitably be marginalized.

yo dont get to claim cofounder rights when your life was spared. Madaras life and any position of power he would have held in the village was a gift from the senju nothing more. They could have just wiped out the uchiha but they decided to be peacful and let them live. Madara should have been grateful. Tobirama even stated that even the uchiha saw hashirama as the true founder of the village. And no the villagers can vote for whomever they want, you dont get to become a mass murderer just because you feel disrespected. If the villagers vote for madara because they feel obligated to then thats not a real democracy now is it

 

[EPICMenma]

Madara was originally chosen to be first hokage. Tobirama objected it..If i was Tobirama, I would not object it..

 

[izzy89]

NOPE. constant communication eliminates distrust...which is what hashirama was trying to do...madara just gave up and decided to be a petty bitch. don't forget he formulated an entire plan that screwed the uchiha over in the process. he wanted to be the leader....it didnt happen...he wanted the uchiha to follow him....it didn't happen...so he said f**k 'em and left. if you combine the story that hashirama is telling and the story obito got from madara it reveals madara's petty sentiments...if he was REALLY MAD AT TOBIRAMA he would've made him the main focus of the story he told obito. he's selfish, point. blank. period.

 

[vvwvw]

Hahaha wow come on let's be serious Tobirama isn't evil or bad or anything. Mind you he said what he did for the greater good of the village, IN PRIVATE. It's honestly not like he went out to Madara and said anything to him. Obviously maybe it would've been best to keep that part to yourself, but still, in private with your bother.
Ngl though I can completely understand why he didn't trust Tobirama and he's right to do so, but not Hashirama. He was a good friend and Madara was just being stupid

 

[Mynnahling]

yo dont get to claim cofounder rights when your life was spared. Madaras life and any position of power he would have held in the village was a gift from the senju nothing more. They could have just wiped out the uchiha but they decided to be peacful and let them live. Madara should have been grateful. Tobirama even stated that even the uchiha saw hashirama as the true founder of the village. And no the villagers can vote for whomever they want, you dont get to become a mass murderer just because you feel disrespected. If the villagers vote for madara because they feel obligated to then thats not a real democracy now is it

I'm not saying Madara is completely justified but I do believe the intent of the chapter was to present an image of a Madara that legitimately cared for the village which he helped create with Hashirama. Hell we now know Madara was the one that gave the Konoha it's name.

As far as wiping out the Uchiha that sounds widely speculative. They say the Uchiha were inferior but we have little to no facts about what would have ended up. Hashirama forbade Tobirama from killing Madara and I would argue because he was trying to break that cycle of hate we've heard about over and over.(obviously speculation)

 

[ItachiStyle]

I've posted this elsewhere, and it's worth doing so here too:

Tobirama was worried about Uchiha like Madara going beserk... but he was wrong... because Madara immediately goes beserk... um, huh?

Yes, Hashi is clearly the superior leader, blah blah blah, but Tobirama is hardly being irrational here. I mean, why should Madara be Hokage if everyone else wants Hashirama, even his own clan? It seems dumb. The only reason seems to be in the hope that Madara will not go beserk, and that's a pretty crap recommendation for becoming leader. Even Hashi must have been feeling like a bit of an idiot when Madara comes back with the 9 Tails to destroy the village, and causes the outbreak of the 1st Shinobi war, costing thousands upon thousands of lives.

And there still doesn't seem to really be any evidence of Uchiha persecution to this day, except "they lived in a sectioned off area in the village" (one that looks quite nice), and otherwise served as the police force, were respected in the village, and often were the popular kids at school (like Sasuke and Itachi). There's virtually no evidence of a coup being necessary, or that the decisions for Hokage were unjustified on merit (or majority will). What sort of crappy justification is that for causing a war? Your clan didn't get picked to be Hokage yet? Bizarre.

So no, Madara was not justified. His actions are ridiculous, and totally against the Uchiha interest. It's also likely he was planning something crazy like the moon eye plan before Hashirama even asked him to be Hokage, given he left pretty quickly afterwards (and since he asked "oh, by the way Hashi, not that it matters, but like.... if I were Hokage, would I need to be in the village the whole time, or could I leave to start building my moons eye plan?")

 

[SagemodejubihostSasuke]

I had a feeling madara was spying on them because in the part with the leaf, it had a hole through it where hashi found.
At least madara name the leaf village.