[Mū & Orochimaru] vs. [Ōnoki & Nidaime Mizukage]

[Varrah]

Location: Madara's Hideout
Knowledge: Manga
Mindset: PR/IC
Distance: 40m
Restrictions: Edo Tensei & Yamata no Jutsu

*Nidiame Mizukage is capable of Suigetsu's Hydrification feats*​

 

[DrProof]

Obviously Team 1. Bring on the debates.

 

[Shura]

Team 1 wins IMO.

 

[OnPoint]

Most going for Mū and co then? Interesting.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Nah, team Onoki have this.

 

[DrProof]

Nah, team Onoki have this.

Come at me bro.

 

[Icelerate]

Mu and Oro could pull it off most likely.

 

[TheEvilOne]

Muu and Orochimaru.

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

Come at me bro.

Orochimaru will be the first to go, obviously. Of course, Orochimaru has shown numerous resilience feats, however, he simply cannot tank a Jinton. His defence is lacking, and Jinton destroys on an atomic level. Orochimaru will quite literally be nothing more than dust by the time Onoki's finished with him. Another feature to remember is, quite literally none of Orochimaru's attacks are effecting the Kages. First of all, Onoki is capable of flight, and he is capable of transferring this technique to anyone he pleases [

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]. The flight completely nullifies any and all chances Orochimaru has at reaching either of the two, and remember, Onoki's already been noted to have gotten quicker [

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]. Of course, we must take into account that the Nidaime Mizukage has been granted with Suigetsu's hydrification techniques, meaning Orochimaru's attacks are more or less... neutralized. This coupled with the flight Onoki can grant him, of course. The Nidaime's water obviously neutralizes Orochimaru's poison. I'm sure you're aware of the process, dilution. Besides, in his water state, there is no blood stream for the poison to spread through.

Dealing with Manda should not be a problem. Jouki boys numerous barrages should deal with it, or if not, Onoki can use Doton: Kajūgan no Jutsu to add so much weight on the serpent that, it can no longer move. From hereafter, Manda is vulnerable to numerous explosions by Jouki boy.

Muu proves to be an even harder task. His invisibility will be trouble. But hopefully, Nidaime can stall for us. Now, I'm fairly certain, no, almost positive that the Hydrification techniqe allowed the Nidaime to tank a few Jintons during their past encounters. Sure, Muu can sense Nidaime, and can attempt a Jinton, but then, he's all open for a point blank Jouki boy. Remember, it's a very fast jutsu [

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].

 

[DrProof]

Orochimaru will be the first to go, obviously. Of course, Orochimaru has shown numerous resilience feats, however, he simply cannot tank a Jinton. His defence is lacking, and Jinton destroys on an atomic level. Orochimaru will quite literally be nothing more than dust by the time Onoki's finished with him. Another feature to remember is, quite literally none of Orochimaru's attacks are effecting the Kages. First of all, Onoki is capable of flight, and he is capable of transferring this technique to anyone he pleases [

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]. The flight completely nullifies any and all chances Orochimaru has at reaching either of the two, and remember, Onoki's already been noted to have gotten quicker [

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]. Of course, we must take into account that the Nidaime Mizukage has been granted with Suigetsu's hydrification techniques, meaning Orochimaru's attacks are more or less... neutralized. This coupled with the flight Onoki can grant him, of course. The Nidaime's water obviously neutralizes Orochimaru's poison. I'm sure you're aware of the process, dilution. Besides, in his water state, there is no blood stream for the poison to spread through.

Dealing with Manda should not be a problem. Jouki boys numerous barrages should deal with it, or if not, Onoki can use Doton: Kajūgan no Jutsu to add so much weight on the serpent that, it can no longer move. From hereafter, Manda is vulnerable to numerous explosions by Jouki boy.

Muu proves to be an even harder task. His invisibility will be trouble. But hopefully, Nidaime can stall for us. Now, I'm fairly certain, no, almost positive that the Hydrification techniqe allowed the Nidaime to tank a few Jintons during their past encounters. Sure, Muu can sense Nidaime, and can attempt a Jinton, but then, he's all open for a point blank Jouki boy. Remember, it's a very fast jutsu [

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].

I'm to lazy to respond atm. Zzz

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

I'm to lazy to respond atm. Zzz

I hear that, in a bit then.

 

[Edo Odin]

---

This is a fight that could definitely go either way, but I'll debate for Oro and Mū in this match up.

The info on both sides should not be much of a factor. Mū has full info on both opponents and vice versa, so informing his teammate on their abilities shouldn't be much of a problem. Orochimaru was also widely known, being one of the legendary Sannin, and was known for using snake techniques. All in all, both sides should have close to full info on the other, with a few of Oro's techniques being possible exceptions.

Countering the techniques of the Mizukage

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The location, and Orochimaru's abilities put the Mizukage at a bit of a disadvantage. Bringing out the Jōki Boy in a closed location would be unwise, simply because of the sheer

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of the attack. Not only would it leave him considerably weakened state in a place where there isn't a lot of places to hide himself, but it would also create a great deal of threat to his partner, who won't be able to defend himself against the technique without destroying it completely.

The biggest threat coming from him would be the Clam Genjutsu, but Mū and Orochimaru have something that can take care of that. Shortly put, Mū has info on the technique and it's properties, and a way to destroy it (Jinton), while Orochimaru has a way to find the location of the Clam, by using the range of his techniques, such as his

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of snakes, and

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. Using the enclosed location and the sheer range of these techniques to his advantage, he should be able to find out the location of the clam itself, giving Mū the opportunity of destroying it with a Jinton.

The rest of his techniques shouldn't be too much of a problem either. The offensive techniques of the Hōzuki clan wouldn't be too much of a problem, with Orochimaru's durability and Mū's ability to levitate, meaning that at best, the Mizukage would mainly be on the defensive side in this match.

Taking care of Ōnoki

---

Against his former teacher, Ōnoki's techniques won't be too effective in the battle. A Jinton has already been shown to be able to take care of a Jinton [

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-

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-

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], and without that, he doesn't have too much to offer.

His Rock Fist Techniques will not do too much against the team of his former teacher. Mū's ability to erase his presence would prevent him from getting a hit off on him, and Orochimaru's durability would allow him to survive Ōnoki's punches, and that's only assuming that he'll be able to get a hit off against the former Sannin. After all, he took a hit from Tsunade

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, and yet seemed relatively fine

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.

The Weight techniques might create a problem, but like I stated earlier, whether he'll even manage to hit them or not is debatable. I've already explained Mū's way to keep his distance from him, and Orochimaru's speed, and ability to

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with his surroundings would most likely serve as an effective way to evade all of Ōnoki's attacks.

All in all, I think Team one has this match. Their moves serve as an effective counter to the techniques of their opponents, along with the location giving them an advantage over the other team. I'll elaborate more alter on, but for now, I want to see if anyone disagrees with my points so far.

 

[OnPoint]

Right well, in that case, i'll argue for Ōnoki and the Mizukage.

Overcoming the Nidaime's illusion shouldn't prove too troublesome given that;

• Mū is already familiar with the technique.
• The Tsuchikage is able to knead his chakra in order to pinpoint the Clam's whereabouts.

However, I think Jōki Bōi is going to be the biggest obstacle Orochimaru and co must overcome in order to seize victory. We know that it caused Mū big problems in the past, likely because its speed prevented it from falling prey to Jinton. Ōnoki lightening it with his Chōkeijūgan (Ultralight-Weight Rock) will not only make it more evasive, but also increase the rate of its detonation as the Imp moves about more and more [

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]. Standing still and attempting to lock onto Jōki Bōi may prove foolish as it would present Ōnoki with a window in which he can fire off his Jinton. With a Jutsu like Jōki Bōi, it's only a matter of time before the hideout is reduced to rumble and the combatants are left exposed to the outside arena.

We don't know if Mū is able to maintain his invisibility whilst at the same time using techniques which require him to actively funnel chakra into, say, his arms (for Dust Release). Perhaps if he accumulates chakra in one part of his body in order to use a particular technique, that chakra is no longer hidden. Either way, he isn't backed by feats in this case. Orochimaru isn't the quickest, so I suspect he'll need to bring out his Sanjū Rashōmon in order to deflect the Imp's explosions. This is where I think Ōnoki will come in handy. His Chōkajūgan (Ultra-Added-Weight Rock) can make either of his foes too heavy to even lift their arms [

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] - this pretty much nulls everything bar Mū's fission technique. If that happens, he becomes an easy target for either Jinton or Jōki Bōi. As has been mentioned, Ōnoki can transfer his Flight Technique to others, probably by lowering their weight. That means that both the Imp & the Mizukage can possibly take to the air, making the former more of a threat and the latter more difficult to take out when in his weakest form.

I see Bunshin feints being the most effective means of dealing with Orochimaru. That Added Weight-Jinton two piece should be effective if he's occupied with an Imp which has had its speed amplified.

 

[Fresco]

I would reply with a good post but Noddy's avy >_>

 

[Varrah]

Hmm...my thoughts: Ōnoki & Nidaime Mizukage.​

I. Awareness:​

Team two has a way to reduce the ambiguity of this ambiguous theoretical situation.The evidential characteristics play a vital role in determining the lessening of that ambiguity, and it is precisely centered on a relationship between the two subordinates from Iwagakure. It is an important aspect to note is team two virtually has complete knowledge on the other Jinton user of team one: Mū. ​

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​

From this situation—Madara’s betrayal and Ōnoki’s expression regarding Madara’s powers— it can be reasoned that Ōnoki more than likely witness Mū’s full capabilities. It can also be said that during this time period Mū may have been in his prime, nonetheless, it is implied that both Mū and Ōnoki were fighting fully, whereas Madara was not.


That said, since that time, it is highly likely that Ōnoki continued to grow his repertoire or abilities since and not Mū—the former was appointed to Tsuchikage, signaling either’s Mū’s retirement or death. Thus, again furthering the above: Ōnoki witnessed Mū’s abilities completely, which may also be supported by the fact Ōnoki was unsurprised at Mū using his Fission Technique prior to summoning Madara. [

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]


The knowledge Ōnoki possesses can be easily relayed to the Nidaime Mizukage and from there they form strategies dealing with Mū’s abilities firstly, and secondly Orochimaru. Ōnoki will inform the Mizukage about the innate workings of all of Mū’s abilities, leading to counters possibly like the following.​

II. Cloaks:​

Mū’s most troublesome ability is Meisaigakure no Jutsu (‘Hiding with Camouflage Technique’). But as Ōnoki possesses information on it, it should reduce team two’s difficulty in dealing with it. For instance, the Mizukage has an affinity for Yin Release—a product that allows one to manage the imagination—as well as an affinity for Genjutsu. When used in occurrence or supplemented one another, the Mizukage can falsify the reality of things in a similar to that of Izanagi. If the Mizukage uses this with his summoning: Ōhamaguri (‘Giant Clam’), then the effects of his Yin Release and Genjutsu are greatly amplified; as the clam itself emits a mist that produces a mirage capable of manifested genuine

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. And even though Mū is a sensor, he cannot properly distinguished the mirage from the real, meaning that the Mizukage could safely deploy this technique until team one finds a way to end it. [

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] However, because it is a way mirage, finding the actual location of the clam is overly difficult. Due to this features, Ōnoki can safely use Jinton: Genkai Hakuri no Jutsu (‘Dust Release: Detachment of the Primitive World Technique’) from a distance he finds ideal, potentially erasing both Mū and Orochimaru.

Alternatively, Mū’s Meisaigakure no Jutsu can be countered by Jōki Bōi.

Jōki Bōi itself may potentially end the situation before it begins, even though Mū has knowledge of this technique, it is relatively difficulty to counter; especially if supplementary by any of Ōnoki’s abilities. The major attribute Jōki Bōi has in this matchup is its speed; it is idiotically fast for something of its statue, and it is that speed that can potentially enable team two to trap team one in a continuous cycle of defensive matter—which can, with the right application—easily kill Orochimaru by setting him up for Ōnoki’s Jinton based attack. In addition, Ōnoki’s own Jinton based attack can be purposely used to negate Mū’s own Jinton attack. [

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] ​

 

[SasoriOfTheRedSaand]

@6paths

Concerning the location. To be fair, we can't determine it's size due to us not viewing the whole hideout, but we do know that it's length is large enough to house the Mazo. When Jouki boy is in fruition, I see no reason as to why Nidaime and Sandaime can't fly to the highest point in the cave. So, not only are Nidaime and Onoki not feeling the full force of the explosion, but even if Jouki boy happens to effect them slightly, it can be tanked with Onoki's rock Golem, which was canonically proven to have tanked Deidara's explosion [

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]. So, not only is the impact not fully directed their way, and they can seek refuge in the upper parts of the cave (they'll still be affected, due to Jouki's range), but they can shake off the little threat it poses with the Rock Golem. No problems.

Sure, Muu and Orochimaru can locate the clam, but can they do so while being bombarded by Jouki boy's explosions and Jinton? Muu will be busy dealing with Onoki's Jinton, surely[

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]. Orochimaru's snakes are large in numbers, but as they're too packed together, one Jouki boy explosion will deal with them. Another difference is, these snakes were put to use in a large, open field. Whereas this time, they're gonna be even more scrunched together because of the cave's natural lacking of space. They simply cannot escape Jouki's range [

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]. As I said earlier, if a rock Golem could deal with Deidara's point blank explosion, then I'm fairly certain it could tank Jouki's undirected attack. As again, it isn't directly aimed at them, so they'll be able to force some distance between themselves and the attack.

Manda's just a waste of space here. One touch with Onoki Ultra-weight jutsu will leave it too heavy to even fight. Look here, one touch was able to make Muu sink into the ground [

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]. Now imagine what this would do to Manda. Manda would play no role here. He's way too large to not get caught by this technique. Onoki can also utilize Bunshins in a similar fashion to that of his latest battle, and confuse the serpant, making his use of the weight technique a sure thing.

You forget, that that works both ways. Muu without Jinton, isn't much of a threat either.

Muu can stay invisible all he likes. However, Jouki boys numerous blasts will force him to reveal himself. Surely. Hiding does him no good, in an enclosed area. As you said earlier, "Jouki boy may affect Onoki too". Well, Onoki has a counter for it, Muu doesn't. If he gets caught, he's done.

Orochimaru can hide all he likes too. As soon as he does reveal himself, he's going to get overwhelmed by Jouki's staggering speed [

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]. Even faster when Onoki alters it's speed with his ultra light weight jutsu.

 

[Sabaki]

A most interesting development lies before me—'t'would be a shame were I not to participate, though it seems I remain wavered.

Best of luck, Varrah-san.

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​

 

[Waltz]

Mū & Orochimaru.

Jōki Bōi would be the biggest problem, and as Noddy said being stationary and attempting to attack the clone is pointless. If Mū killed the Mizukage it simply means he is not only aware of this but bested the clone as there is a flaw to that Jutsu. The clone itself evades and attacks while increasing in size but when at it's maximum it is programmed to land near the enemy for

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. That's enough time for

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based attacks, something Mū is presumably aware of. While using the jutsu the weakened Mizukage is opened to Mū's sensing and an easy target for Conical Jinton, Kusanagi (which can be control via finger movement alone) or a Katon infused Fūton: Daitoppa as in such a small environment there are little hiding places. If Ōnoki/Mizu engages in hand-to-hand combat they would be facing Kanashibari no Jutsu, however such a fight would most likely be revolved around long range Jutsu.

As long as Mū is available, Ōnoki's chances of making successful hits with Jinton are

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. Orochimaru is proficient in Genjutsu and would ultimately realize that both the Mizukage and the prominent clam are illusions; making small environment is again to his as he could to locate the Mizukage's Ōhamaguri using Mandara no Jin (Formation of Ten Thousand Snakes Silk) as not only would they cover the entire terrain in minimal time but also enables Orochimaru himself to

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near the actual clam. A fight such as this will most likely result in the Jinton users taking on each other and it is obvious who is the stronger of the two [

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] as Mū bested both

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and his

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. The Mizukage's Mirage cannot kill Orochimaru and it's only a matter of time before the clam is located. Mū after he bests Ōnoki could distribute Chōkajūgan no Jutsu to Orochimaru and Kusanagi, enabling Orochimaru to destroy the clam.

Though intel on the 'Null-Man' is to their behalf, it's hard to see Team 2 winning this when the Mizukage's jutsu are open for counters/he cannot kill Orochimaru. Alternately, Ōnoki cannot defeat Mū, who he is destined to fight in such a matchup.

 

[KillerMongoose]

Mu and Orochimaru win.

 

[The Dragon Abadon]

Muu n orochimaru. Orochimaru kills both of them.