[Discussion] Luffy's time limit in G4

[OG sama]

@Riker Slade

Well your probably right, but still Aokiji wasn't really trying to kill Joker.

I'm not saying endurance and durability don't matter I'm saying that his endurance and durability is so good that the attack to the organs didnt leave him half dead after the stitching.

Luffy seen parasite in action with Bellamy, he knew. Also the gap between G4 Luffy, Jozu ,and Doflamingo isn't big.

The next time Luffy has to use G4 it will be much faster and even more sustainable so there's nothing wrong with him being about as strong as Jozu.

 

[Punk Hazard]

@Riker Slade

Well your probably right, but still Aokiji wasn't really trying to kill Joker.

I'm not saying endurance and durability don't matter I'm saying that his endurance and durability is so good that the attack to the organs didnt leave him half dead after the stitching.

Luffy seen parasite in action with Bellamy, he knew. Also the gap between G4 Luffy, Jozu ,and Doflamingo isn't big.

The next time Luffy has to use G4 it will be much faster and even more sustainable so there's nothing wrong with him being about as strong as Jozu.

Kuzan had no reason to not be trying to kill Joker.

Or his endurance and durability was enough to keep the pain from rendering him unable to move or pass out.

He knew nothing about how it works. Seeing Bellamy be controlled doesn't mean he knows how it works and how to counter it.

I believe the gap between Doffy and Jozu isn't,but is with Luffy.

 

[ssjelf]

There really isn't that much difference between the time GK downed him and the time G4 downed him. Counter Shock didn't work on Vergo, Law just used it to make Doffy shut up and die faster, which couldn't happen because he was stitching himself. Two GKs woulda definitely killed him, come on now.



While stitching can't fix broken bones caused by blunt force, Doffy did stitch himself up. It's evident by the fact that afterwards, his hand was on his stomach and there were "Snap" and "Zuzu" speech bubbles directed towards it.



If they did 35 and 65, Doflaminto would be dead. 45, then 45, 5 make a lot more sense since he's alive and was in the same state after GK and G4 assault.

I disagree, all two would have done was keep him down longer. he can clearly withstand much bigger attacks that that with his stitching. He was down for almost a whole chapter. long enough for luffy to take a quick breather, get up then fly at him again and fall midway. Where as with law it was only long enough for law to say a few words and then counter shock him after which doffy got up quickly. You are overrating GK.

You're right

I'm talking about the damage done to doffy needed to defeat him, not kill him. Look at all the moves that luffy used on doffy. From portrayal Leo bazooka and GK are on the same level. They both took doffy out of the fight and stunned him for lets say an equal time. and they both required him to use stitching. That puts king kong gun far beyond gamma knife. Meaning all of luffys attacks combined had to have done more than what law did previous to G4. Hence my original question as to how GK + etc.. = King Kong Gun + etc... when leo bazooka is shown as doing the same thing to doffy as laws most powerful move.

 

[OG sama]

Kuzan had no reason to not be trying to kill Joker.

Or his endurance and durability was enough to keep the pain from rendering him unable to move or pass out.

He knew nothing about how it works. Seeing Bellamy be controlled doesn't mean he knows how it works and how to counter it.

I believe the gap between Doffy and Jozu isn't,but is with Luffy.

As long as he was sure Joker was going to release Smoker he didn't really have a reason to kill him, just needed to show him he will take action if he doesn't heed his words.

How is that really any different? If he can still move around and fight like nothing happened, then it didn't affect his health that much. It can go both ways.

Well true, he probably broke out with sheer will and confidence, its useless to argue really as you can come up with many scenarios.

Luffy always gets stronger after each fight even if you think right now there not comparable you'll see the next time when he has to use G4 trust me. But getting into how there comparable would need a whole new thread so I will just leave it at that for now.

 

[CrimsonReaper]

Does it matter? Luffy couldn't take out of a half-dead Doflamingo before it wore off.

you really love underestimating and underpowering Luffy don't ya.

First that Luffy can't beat crocodile with G2 and G3 bullcrap now this. :lol

 

[Punk Hazard]

I disagree, all two would have done was keep him down longer. he can clearly withstand much bigger attacks that that with his stitching. He was down for almost a whole chapter. long enough for luffy to take a quick breather, get up then fly at him again and fall midway. Where as with law it was only long enough for law to say a few words and then counter shock him after which doffy got up quickly. You are overrating GK.

You're severely underrating GK. Oda has dragged a few minutes into an entire chapter, and covered several days in a few panels. You can't measure time based on how many pages or panels it's cost. When GK hit, there was enough time for Doffy and Law to talk to each other, for Trebol to talk to Doffy, and for Luffy to say something, then a brief pause as Doffy and Law were laying on the ground. The amount speech was about the same as the amount of speech happening after the G4 assault, but because Oda had to show more conversations that could have been happening at the same time, it took more pages. Law and Cavendish saying the Bird Cage hasn't disappeared can be comparable to Luffy's musing after GK. Luffy talking with the civilians can be comparable to Law and Doffy talking, and Luffy flying in the air then crashing comparable to the pause where Law and Doffy were laying on the ground.

I'm talking about the damage done to doffy needed to defeat him, not kill him. Look at all the moves that luffy used on doffy. From portrayal Leo bazooka and GK are on the same level. They both took doffy out of the fight and stunned him for lets say an equal time. and they both required him to use stitching. That puts king kong gun far beyond gamma knife. Meaning all of luffys attacks combined had to have done more than what law did previous to G4. Hence my original question as to how GK + etc.. = King Kong Gun + etc... when leo bazooka is shown as doing the same thing to doffy as laws most powerful move.

Uhm, no. You are assuming that Leo Bazooka is what caused Doffy to fall down and be stunned in the plateau only because it was the last move used in the assault. The Leo Bazooka alone didn't do that, that was caused by the entire assault as a whole. If you swap Leo Bazooka with a Culverin or Kong Gun from earlier, the result would have been the same. Doffy was stuck in the plateau as a result of a 51 minute assault from G4 which Leo Bazooka was a part of, not Leo Bazooka alone.

As long as he was sure Joker was going to release Smoker he didn't really have a reason to kill him, just needed to show him he will take action if he doesn't heed his words.

Kuzan literally attacked Doffy as he was attempting to kill Smoker. As in, during an actual attack. Kuzan killed Saul, his friend, you think he'd have any scruples about killing Joker? The only time Kuzan has spared someone was the Strawhats because they downed Crocodile. Being no longer part of the Marines and working with Blackbeard, Kuzan had no real reason to not want to kill Doflamingo.

How is that really any different? If he can still move around and fight like nothing happened, then it didn't affect his health that much. It can go both ways.

You're not getting me. It did effect his health a lot, so much that it stopped him from fighting at his best, but not enough to keep him from fighting at all.

Luffy always gets stronger after each fight even if you think right now there not comparable you'll see the next time when he has to use G4 trust me. But getting into how there comparable would need a whole new thread so I will just leave it at that for now.

Uhm...okay? How strong Luffy will be later and after the fight we're talking about doesn't matter, what matters is how strong he is now, during the fight.

 

[shin shin son son]

cant wait for the time luffy'll have full control of gear 4 like gear 2 & 3

 

[Vandenre1ch]

you really love underestimating and underpowering Luffy don't ya.

First that Luffy can't beat crocodile with G2 and G3 bullcrap now this. :lol

So Luffy beat half dead Doffy before G4 wore off the first time? Didnt think so.

Pre-TS Luffy<Croc

 

[Vandenre1ch]

You're severely underrating GK. Oda has dragged a few minutes into an entire chapter, and covered several days in a few panels. You can't measure time based on how many pages or panels it's cost. When GK hit, there was enough time for Doffy and Law to talk to each other, for Trebol to talk to Doffy, and for Luffy to say something, then a brief pause as Doffy and Law were laying on the ground. The amount speech was about the same as the amount of speech happening after the G4 assault, but because Oda had to show more conversations that could have been happening at the same time, it took more pages. Law and Cavendish saying the Bird Cage hasn't disappeared can be comparable to Luffy's musing after GK. Luffy talking with the civilians can be comparable to Law and Doffy talking, and Luffy flying in the air then crashing comparable to the pause where Law and Doffy were laying on the ground.


Uhm, no. You are assuming that Leo Bazooka is what caused Doffy to fall down and be stunned in the plateau only because it was the last move used in the assault. The Leo Bazooka alone didn't do that, that was caused by the entire assault as a whole. If you swap Leo Bazooka with a Culverin or Kong Gun from earlier, the result would have been the same. Doffy was stuck in the plateau as a result of a 51 minute assault from G4 which Leo Bazooka was a part of, not Leo Bazooka alone.

Kuzan literally attacked Doffy as he was attempting to kill Smoker. As in, during an actual attack. Kuzan killed Saul, his friend, you think he'd have any scruples about killing Joker? The only time Kuzan has spared someone was the Strawhats because they downed Crocodile. Being no longer part of the Marines and working with Blackbeard, Kuzan had no real reason to not want to kill Doflamingo.


You're not getting me. It did effect his health a lot, so much that it stopped him from fighting at his best, but not enough to keep him from fighting at all.


Uhm...okay? How strong Luffy will be later and after the fight we're talking about doesn't matter, what matters is how strong he is now, during the fight.

All you have to say is "Whitebeard."

 

[Valhalla]

Jebus lol. I just wanted to elaborate on the time limit Luffy has in G4 is all. I totally agree DD is on another level compared to Luffy and Law combined. Both put in work but in the end wasn't enough. Both got defeated in my book. So DD is epic and a strong villain that we will get to see again in the future. Maybe even a one on one with a future Law. But like I said Jebus dont fight my friends lol...

 

[ssjelf]

You're severely underrating GK. Oda has dragged a few minutes into an entire chapter, and covered several days in a few panels. You can't measure time based on how many pages or panels it's cost. When GK hit, there was enough time for Doffy and Law to talk to each other, for Trebol to talk to Doffy, and for Luffy to say something, then a brief pause as Doffy and Law were laying on the ground. The amount speech was about the same as the amount of speech happening after the G4 assault, but because Oda had to show more conversations that could have been happening at the same time, it took more pages. Law and Cavendish saying the Bird Cage hasn't disappeared can be comparable to Luffy's musing after GK. Luffy talking with the civilians can be comparable to Law and Doffy talking, and Luffy flying in the air then crashing comparable to the pause where Law and Doffy were laying on the ground.


Uhm, no. You are assuming that Leo Bazooka is what caused Doffy to fall down and be stunned in the plateau only because it was the last move used in the assault. The Leo Bazooka alone didn't do that, that was caused by the entire assault as a whole. If you swap Leo Bazooka with a Culverin or Kong Gun from earlier, the result would have been the same. Doffy was stuck in the plateau as a result of a 51 minute assault from G4 which Leo Bazooka was a part of, not Leo Bazooka alone.

No you are underestimating doffys recovery from it. How many times has oda dragged out a fight to be more than perhaps a minute a page. Not only that but that wasnt my sole argument there. Gamma knife was used and law/trebol said stuff as doffy was falling, then doffy grabbed law and began to talk to him (clearly no longer stunned) and was interrupted by luffys jet stamp. (which stunned doffy for a small time, long enough for law to crawl over and start a conversation with doffy. (all the while doffy was likely stitching himself back together) The he got hit by counter shock. And immediately got up. Doffys total stun time was no longer than that of leo bazooka. And it was a culmination of luffys and laws attack that stunned doffy because GS didnt stun him for more than enough time to say 2 sentences. So to say that leo bazooka's stun is a culmination of attacks (when it clearly wasnt because it was an ultimate move used by luffy, and his second most powerful attack thus far) is also to say that GK's stun is because doffy also took a red hawk, some other law bullet type move and a jet stamp in addition to GK. Doffy wasnt even stunned until the jet stamp too.

Leo bazooka is is what did it, it was the main attack in the sequence and one that wasnt partially blocked like kong gun. Artillery was comparable to a red hawk and double artillery was the only other attack not blocked which is comparable to perhaps hawk Gatling or something. In any case kong gun is most clearly stronger than GK and leo bazooka is quite clearly equal to it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

I ain't reading that shit

 

[ssjelf]

I ain't reading that shit

You dont have to if you dont want to. but if you dont then you are abandoning the argument

 

[Punk Hazard]

You dont have to if you dont want to. but if you dont then you are abandoning the argument

Lol okay you say that like it means something
This argument is no longer interesting so peace

 

[ssjelf]

Lol okay you say that like it means something
This argument is no longer interesting so peace

It does mean something. It means that you can't hold an argument without being bored. It happens every time we debate, you quit. And instead of just saying that you have made your point and just say we interpret this differently, you always just say something like "lol I'm not reading that" Well clearly you didn't read tha manga either because every time law does something you start over exaggerating him.

You can't argue with the manga. Luffy clearly did more than law. He not only had feats equal to Gamma knife but he had one beyond that as well. Even IF you say that, leo + kong gun + artillry + whatever other attacks for 51 mins...., stunned doffy just like gamma knife (and thats generous because GK alone didnt stop doffy for long at all, it was a combo of red hawk, jet stamp and GK). Then the matter of king kong gun is still there meaning law was necessary but he didn't do half the work.

 

[Punk Hazard]

It does mean something. It means that you can't hold an argument without being bored. It happens every time we debate, you quit. And instead of just saying that you have made your point and just say we interpret this differently, you always just say something like "lol I'm not reading that" Well clearly you didn't read tha manga either because every time law does something you start over exaggerating him.

You can't argue with the manga. Luffy clearly did more than law. law was necessary but he didn't do half the work.

This is literally the first time I've ever said that. I implore you to find another thread where I said that.

And? I got bored after having the same debate for hours and hours, what a shocking thing to happen.

I can just as easily say you're actually underrating what he did because of your own failure to comprehend what you read, but agree to disagree. There, is that better?

You can't argue with the manga, they clearly did equivalent damage.

 

[ssjelf]

This is literally the first time I've ever said that. I implore you to find another thread where I said that.

And? I got bored after having the same debate for hours and hours, what a shocking thing to happen.

I can just as easily say you're actually underrating what he did because of your own failure to comprehend what you read, but agree to disagree. There, is that better?

You can't argue with the manga, they clearly did equivalent damage.

ah but you see the manga shows that everything up until luffy went g4 only managed to put doffy down for generously an equal amount of time to that of everything luffy did in g4 prior to king kong gun. You cant make the argument that he was down longer from GK. And the only things we have to really work with for a damage scale are blood, stun time, and the fact doffy had to stitch his wounds, then everything in both case is at best for your argument EQUAL. Still leaving room for King Kong gun, therefore luffy did more damage. i rest my case

and no i wont be bothered to search every thread you have ever posted to find where you start giving up on arguments but i can think of one but I cant remember the thread name. i'll edit it if i can find it.

 

[Punk Hazard]

ah but you see the manga shows that everything up until luffy went g4 only managed to put doffy down for generously an equal amount of time to that of everything luffy did in g4 prior to king kong gun. You cant make the argument that he was down longer from GK. And the only things we have to really work with for a damage scale are blood, stun time, and the fact doffy had to stitch his wounds, then everything in both case is at best for your argument EQUAL. Still leaving room for King Kong gun, therefore luffy did more damage. i rest my case

I literally said GK put him down for a comparable amount of time G4 did. Not more.

I also said GK did 45, and the G4 assault did 45. I've been saying the whole time the assault and GK were equivalent. So, thanks for resting my case

 

[Bogard]

When you copy and paste the work of another person, it's better to give credit where it's due

 

[ssjelf]

I literally said GK put him down for a comparable amount of time G4 did. Not more.

I also said GK did 45, and the G4 assault did 45. I've been saying the whole time the assault and GK were equivalent. So, thanks for resting my case

Yeah generously that is true. And where does king kong gun fit in? Are you including it in the G4 assault or the last 10%? You never specified, you said luffy did 45% so I assumed you were including king kong gun in luffys 45%. , If not then luffy still did more. We can chalk the actual percents up to interpretation of how strong doffy was before king kong gun, I say he was at least 15%, he was still able to attack luffy and hurt him and fly and use spider net. And chase him down for the better part of 10 mins.

also for your previous request here ya go

You must be registered for see links

"I was gonna reply with this to your hypocrisy post, but it's become rather uninteresting to actually carry the debate with you in particular, which is why I stopped responding to you for the most part. " This isnt to me but still...

Ill try to find somewhere where you say im not reading that too