[VS] Luffy vs Doflamingo rematch
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Punk Hazard
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Doffy wins scenario 1, maybe scenario 2? We don't know what he looks like all out, but he probably loses that more time than wins.
HowDidIGetPrem
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I'll be the one to say Luffy takes both. Luffy has fought Kata for many hours now while practically being half dead. Luffy's biggest threat against Doflamingo in Gear 2 was honestly Doflamingo's constant attacks. And those were all pretty concentrated on one spot or linear like his overheat. Gear 2 Luffy probably couldn't put Doffy to sleep soundly, but we do know he has the skills required to harm Doffy because he could do so with Traffy's gimmicks. Luffy didn't just improve his observation this fight either. Not long ago, Kata's hardening was crushing Luffy's and since then we've seen Luffy have legitament stalemates in fist clashes with him. The question comes down to speed, but observation still gives him the edge.
chopstickchakra
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Not to take away from Luffy but it could be Kata's is falling as well, he didn't get his real lunch break since Luffy barged in. Luffy's armament may be able to contend with strong mochi better now because Kata's gassing out.
Rikudou Tobi
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Luffy was always stronger. He fought in the tournament and all of doflamingo’s subordinates beat Dofy.
But with G4 luffy can’t TKO Dofy because he’ll run circles around him.
We saw G3 luffy punch stalemate power Mochi a move stronger than anything Doflamingo has, but Dofy’s speed evaded easily. G2 luffy was landing combos on Dofy left in right, but Dofy laughed it off saying that it lacked power.
G4 negs though
But with G4 luffy can’t TKO Dofy because he’ll run circles around him.
We saw G3 luffy punch stalemate power Mochi a move stronger than anything Doflamingo has, but Dofy’s speed evaded easily. G2 luffy was landing combos on Dofy left in right, but Dofy laughed it off saying that it lacked power.
G4 negs though
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Punk Hazard
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We have to consider that Luffy has eaten multiple times during the day, and we know he gets power from eating. While his longevity may have naturally increased, that clouds it a bit and we can't say for sure.
Except he didn't. He hit Pica with one Grizzly Magnum, knocked down some nutcrackers, and kicked Trebol once. None of that is strenous. He also ate immediately after the tournament, so that's irrelevant.
Except Doffy was able to contend with the power of G4 for 20 mins
[QOTE]But Dofy’s speed evaded easily. G2 luffy was landing combos on Dofy left in right, but Dofy laughed it off saying that it lacked power.
G4 negs though[/QUOTE]
And we've seen Doffy be more than fast enough for G2 and keep up/react to G4.
**** it, Luffy wins both scenarios at this point. I'm not convinced Doflamingo has enough to put the Current Luffy down even if G4 is restricted. The much stronger Katakuri can't put down base Luffy despite pulling out all the stops so why would Doflamingo?
Dressrosa G4 Luffy was already stronger than Doflamingo but couldn't get the job done because of the time limit. Foresight + improved G4 proves too much for Doflamingo and he gets stomped in S2.
Dressrosa G4 Luffy was already stronger than Doflamingo but couldn't get the job done because of the time limit. Foresight + improved G4 proves too much for Doflamingo and he gets stomped in S2.
Rikudou Tobi
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Luffy's been reserving his strength from the very beginning. Remember when people were saying Luffy was weaker than Smoker, Caesar, and even Vergo because of what happened in Punk Hazard? He was beaten by Casear and his haki looked like it wasn't strong enough to take out Caesar while Law and Vergo were hyped to be the strongest.
Well Dressrosa arc was exactly the same thing. Luffy fought the whole Colosseum, the subordinates while accumulating damages and lsoing stamina by fighting multiple people while using too much Haki before meeting Dofy. Even Dofy said he was weakened quit a bit and the fight didn't start yet.
However we did cases where base luffy was beating up dofy with a volley of punches so seeing base luffy tag Dogtooth in base is not that surprising either.
Luffy even took all of Dofy's awakening attacks in base form too so Luffy being able to take power mochi in base is understanding too.
My point is that Luffy's always been stronger than Dofy since the timeskip but he struggled due to time. Same deal with Asgard Moriah it was a race against time. It was Cracker and Dogtooth that pushed Luffy to increase his stamina (G4 time) and Dogtooth pushing Luffy's power (Gear powers+Haki powers) even further.
Punk Hazard
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No fight is one facet. Luffy having more destructive power isn't the same as Luffy being stronger overall. The only thing Luffy had over Doffy was raw power. At the end of Dressrosa, Doffy blown half to hell was standing while Luffy wasn't, and that was with help, and Luffy needed even more help to win.
The only thing we know for sure Luffy has now that he didn't before is foresight, and as we've seen in this fight, it's not doing him much good, so to say it makes a difference from last time is farfetched. His stamina may have increased, but he also ate a ton of mochi during this fight, so we don't know that his stamina is actually now naturally higher. Unless his stamina has increased, Luffy is gonna lose all over again.
Luffy was in far better condition(still not great) when he ate that mochi and ever since has been getting his ass handed to him left and right and just lost a big ass portion of his abdomen and was STILL FIGHTING even after the fact in this chapter. Luffys durability is WAYYYY too much for Doflamingo to handle at this point. Doflamingo only really was better overall because of the time limit, but when G4 was on Doflamingo was on the defensive for majority of the time getting knocked all around Dressrosa. And even when it ran out Doflamingo still FAILED to even KO Luffy despite an awakened string going straight through his chest. Theres nothing Doflamingo has in his arsenal that either won't be dodged or shrugged off by the Current Luffy.
How would foresight be useless or not much good that sounds incredibly ignorant why would Oda give Luffy a useless ability? By the time this fight is over, his foresight will be even better than it is now so lol at it not doing much good. If its any thing like Katas its going to make him even harder to beat.
Its also absolutely ridiculous to think Doflamingo is going to beat a guy that literally fought Fuji, Cracker, and Katakuri all post Doflamingo fight and got stronger from each and still be weaker than Doflamingo that sounds absolutely insane.
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Punk Hazard
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As I said before, Luffy draws the energy to fight on food, and he ate Mochi not too long ago(I actually can't remember what the timeframe was since he ate the mochi).
This isn't true at all. 20 mins of that fight was Dofy using Awakening and Luffy trying to get past it. Only a fraction of the total time Luffy was in G4 was actually shown to us on panel.
Do you expect Doffy to be able to put Luffy down in one blow or something? Someone could say exactly what you're saying now about Katakuri. "He hit him with strong Mochi head-on and Luffy got back up!! His durability is too high for Katakuri to defeat!"
Doflamingo lost to Luffy because of the fact that he took too much damage from Luffy and Law together and was stalled by the colliseum fighters. Remove these outside influences, and Luffy is the one that would be unable to damage Doflamingo enough to put him down, unless Luffy's natural stamina has increased
Because foresight only matters when you can control it. Foresight does Luffy nothing right now because it comes in random burst and he doesn't even appear to be able to tell the difference between a vision and the present. It's just gonna distract him more than help him because he lacks focus and control like Katakuri does.
How does him eating a couple hours ago have to do with now? He's in a far worse condition right now and still isn't defeated yet. His durability, not his stamina is the reason he's still alive right now.
This is true but Luffy did eventually bypass it, in fact he literally went right through it, so G4s offense eventually won out over the awakened strings. Whereas the strings couldn't tag G4, managed to hit him on one occasion but didn't do much. And that's not even current G4 Luffy.
He can't win at all at this point dude, there's nothing in his arsenal that's going to put Luffy down for good if Katakuri has did all of this to base Luffy and Luffy is still up and fighting that's my point. How in the hell is Mingo going to kill this Current Luffy if Katakuri currently can't do so?
He was able to stitch his self up and heal from some of the damage from GK. Meanwhile Luffy is currently fighting a stronger opponent with a big ass chunk of his abdomen missing WITH NO HEALING OR STITCHING how is Mingo going to beat him?
I'm assuming this battle is hypothetically taking place post Katakuri fight I get what you're saying about foresight now but by the time this battle is over he should have decent control over it don't you think? If were talking currently I guess I can leave it out then.
Punk Hazard
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If we're making a distinction between stamina and durability, then it's his stamina that's in effect right now.
durability=how hard it is to break through your skin and bones
stamina=how much damage you can take before you pass out
Durability is a blade breaking against your back. Stamina is the blade piercing your back, and you can keep going. The latter is what Luffy is showing us.
Like I said before, we don't know that "current" G4 Luffy is what Luffy's stamina naturally allows, as opposed to his stamina being heightened due to stuffing his face during the fight and metabolizing it. It's also important to note that for as long as this fight has been going, Luffy used G4 for a small portion of it and has been coasting by on his base stamina. Something he wouldn't be able to do if he burned through his stamina using G4.
As for Luffy breaking through the Awakened thread, that doesn't change that the threads still had the capacity to keep Luffy at bay for 20 minutes.
Except Katakuri doesn't lack the capacity to kill Luffy, he just has to sludge through it because Luffy has immense stamina. ANY person fighting Luffy, unless you're using insta-kill abilities, would have to go through the same thing.
Doffy vs Luffy would go the same way: Either Luffy burns out his stamina using Gear Fourth and Doflamingo can ravage him while he's slumped, or Luffy doesn't use Gear Fourth and just gets his ass beaten by Awakened threads for an extended period until he eventually gives out.
In this chapter, I see Luffy wobbling on his legs. You make it sound like Luffy is just coasting through this injury, when the truth is, dodging a dart from Flambe is so exhaustive he's falling down flat on his face and he can't even dodge Katakuri properly. In fact, it looks like the only reason Luffy is gonna be able to compete is because Katakuri injured himself.
I sure as shit hope not.
Stamina is not how much damage you can take before you pass out, its how much energy you can sustain before you pass out, the best example of this is G4, he hasn't been running out of G4 because he's been taking too many hits he's been running out of G4 because his energy(stamina) can't sustain it. He's been taking a crap ton of damage from Kata and is still fighting. He's tired(stamina)sure, but he is still able to fight right now despite his stamina, durability, toughness, and endurance all being put to the test.
His stamina right now is irrelevant, he burned his stamina out using G4 despite eating prior to that so why do you keep talking about his stamina? He still needed to leave the mirror world to go replenish his stamina despite eating not too long before. His stamina is not what's keeping him alive right now its his incredible toughness, which is just too much for Mingo to handle at this point.
Except Luffy is still in a far worse condition than katakuri is right now, Kata hasn't taken anywhere near the same amount of damage that Luffy has right now and Luffy is still going to win. And if you think Kata stabbing himself one time is equivalent to all the damage Luffy has had to take in his base form alone then you might want to reconsider how strong Kata really is.
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TheNuetrix
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