Mephew D Kensei
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coz Kuma spent 2yrs on sabody so he wasn't upgraded then but Vegapunk surely upgraded him when he went for his fix. Kuma wld beat Sanji though as Px0 sanji wld either win or lose high high diff.
Luffy cannot lose
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akimofnevis
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akimofnevis
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Sanji has only lost once and that was to eneru and that was because sanji didn't know haki at the time and the battle with Kuma was right after they defeated a pacifista, the straw hats were tired
Pervy Wrath
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SharinganisOP
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Many of you are simply grossly underestimating Luffy. Luffy was taught haki and trained by the pirate kings first mate for a year and a half. Rayleigh is someone who was easily a match for, if not far stronger than, admiral kizaru. I'm not saying that Luffy is unbeatable right now, but it has been shown he has the ability to dodge kizaru's light (via pacifista), the ability to take out bounties of over 500 million with what seems to be low difficulty (chinjao), and shows really seems to show complete confidence in himself.
Really I don't see Luffy being capable of losing to anyone other than an extremely skilled swordsman with command over haki, ignorance to opponents devil fruit abilities (such as when ceasar is able to knock out luffy), protecting someone else, or fighting multiple people at once.
I personally view this half of the story as Luffy essentially gaining renown and essentially conquering the new world, and to do that he must be strong, and thus has been made strong from the get go of the time skip. He will have difficulties along the way and will most likely get stronger via a new trick like a new gear or something; however, he is still extremely strong right now and should be able to take out most people including Ace if he were still alive, and should not be underestimated.
Luffy would likely have trouble with, though i'm not saying he would lose:
Mihawk-Zoro-Vista (All skilled swordsman)
blackbeard
shanks
kaido ( I can't say for sure, but he has been made out to seem like a badass)
Dragon
Rayliegh
Garp and Sengoku (though they are getting elderly so he may be stronger than them in their old age)
akainu-kizaru-aokiji (Post time skip, I suppose all 3 of them put in ample training especially akainu after getting whooped by whitebeard. pre timeskip however jimbei stopped akainu's lava with his hands, with what looked like no haki. I'm confident Luffy would beat any pre timeskip admiral)
Kuma (his devil fruit is over powered, it lets him travel seemingly faster than even kizaru, he can essentially heal people of pain, and if hes loosing he can launch his opponent across the planet with a touch. Also hes made out of metal denser than steel, essentially kumas a badass)
TL;DR
Don't underestimate Luffy, he is strong and has been taught by the pirate kings first mate, someone clearly stronger than an admiral.
Really I don't see Luffy being capable of losing to anyone other than an extremely skilled swordsman with command over haki, ignorance to opponents devil fruit abilities (such as when ceasar is able to knock out luffy), protecting someone else, or fighting multiple people at once.
I personally view this half of the story as Luffy essentially gaining renown and essentially conquering the new world, and to do that he must be strong, and thus has been made strong from the get go of the time skip. He will have difficulties along the way and will most likely get stronger via a new trick like a new gear or something; however, he is still extremely strong right now and should be able to take out most people including Ace if he were still alive, and should not be underestimated.
Luffy would likely have trouble with, though i'm not saying he would lose:
Mihawk-Zoro-Vista (All skilled swordsman)
blackbeard
shanks
kaido ( I can't say for sure, but he has been made out to seem like a badass)
Dragon
Rayliegh
Garp and Sengoku (though they are getting elderly so he may be stronger than them in their old age)
akainu-kizaru-aokiji (Post time skip, I suppose all 3 of them put in ample training especially akainu after getting whooped by whitebeard. pre timeskip however jimbei stopped akainu's lava with his hands, with what looked like no haki. I'm confident Luffy would beat any pre timeskip admiral)
Kuma (his devil fruit is over powered, it lets him travel seemingly faster than even kizaru, he can essentially heal people of pain, and if hes loosing he can launch his opponent across the planet with a touch. Also hes made out of metal denser than steel, essentially kumas a badass)
TL;DR
Don't underestimate Luffy, he is strong and has been taught by the pirate kings first mate, someone clearly stronger than an admiral.
First of all Chinjao wasn't in his prime. He was old P.S, he didn't had that drill head if his when Luffy beat him. If Chinjao was like when he fought Garp, he would have defeated Luffy mid diff, seeing how Garp trained to fight Chinjao and then one shot him.
Luffy did dodged Kizaru's Kizaru's Laser which was used by Pacifista but by that if you are implying that Luffy gives Kizaru a tough time then the answer is No. Kizaru is on a different level at using Lasers that the Pacifistas,, he destroyed a Yarukiman mangrove in just one of him laser beam, while the beams which the Pacifistas use are nowhere near it.
Luffy can still lose even without the situations you have said.
Current Luffy vs. Ace would definitely,, Ace match Jinbe for 5 days when "he was a lot weaker" and current Jinbe is on par with Luffy(or just a lil bit lower).
You did not just do that. He's clearly not on the level of Yonko or Admirals.
Luffy is not to be underestimated but don't overestimate him too.
SharinganisOP
Active member
You are correct Chinjao was not in his prime, that is for certain. However that does not change the fact that he is a 500 million + bounty and is still rediculously strong. Also who's to say that Luffy wouldn't beat him with the drill on his head? Luffy took down chinjao with extremely low difficulty, he gets a pointed head and that makes chinjao iin? No it doesn't. Luffy's combination of speed and mass with armanent haki would destroy it as easy as garp did, if not easier. As far as I can tell, luffy only got a couple scratches from a fight with a 500 million bounty with conquerors haki. There is no sugar coating it, luffy beat him easily and though he may not have beaten him as easy when he was in his prime, he still would have beaten him.
I'm not saying that Kizaru's laser is less powerful, i'm saying that they are the same speed, and thus with luffy's current observation haki, He should be able to dodge all shots if in gear second. As we have seen Luffy's armanent haki is clearly powerful, and in my belief is enough to beat kizaru senseless. At least pre-timeskip, I can't say anything post because we haven't really seen him, but i still believe luffy would beat Kizaru.
I like how you say he can lose in other situations, yet you don't list any...
I'm not sure what you were trying to say with the luffy vs Ace thing, but going off of what you said next I'll go ahead and think that you think that Ace would win (I'm sorry if you think Luffy would win, if so please disregard the next statement). Ace would get his ass beat. simple as that. Ace(as far as we know) doesn't use observation or armanent haki. Though i'm sure he used observation haki, even though it wasn't stated his armanent haki is likely extremely lacking in comparison to luffy's since he is a logia type and doesn't focus on it as much as a paramecia would. This gives luffy an extreme advantage, since he has stronger haki. Also you say Luffy and Jimbei are near equal why? just because ace faced jimbei for a weak doesn't mean jimbei is a strong as luffy is now. And nor does that little fight between luffy and jimbei mean anything. Luffy got hit from the side once and then got one kick in and then robin interrupted. There's not enough to base a conclusion by that. I believe Luffy is most likely quite a bit stronger than jimbei because luffy still has so much hidden up his sleave. For example a ****ing gigantic armanent hand.
Also I clearly just did do that. The admirals are powerful, the yonko are powerful, but so is luffy. Rayleigh trained luffy so that when the situation came to it he would stand a chance against someone like an admiral. Do you think those two years were wasted? No, they weren't. Luffy likely had the best god damned teacher of haki in the world. This teacher of luffy's is also experienced in fighting admirals. **** Rayleigh said he couldn't ****ing teach luffy any more after a year and a half and it was up to him to hone his skills. If that's not saying, "your strong enough to handle yourself now" I don't know what is.
Also IMO I may be slightly overestimating luffy, But your clearly overestimating the yonko and admirals. It's not like the Yonko are yonko solely because of themselves, they also have very powerful crews and thus the captain is made a yonko. One person simply isn't strong enough to be made a yonko solely by themselves. Whitebeard has his crew, blackbeard his, kaido his, big mam hers, shanks his, and their crews are all strong. When you face a yonko your not just going to fight the captain... Is luffy and his crew capable of handling the yonko and their crew? I doubt it, but a 1v1 situation I would like to think Luffy would do well. And the admirals... I know that garp is strong, but hes old. Even though hes old he was 100 percent certain if sengoku let him go he would kill akainu. I know that garp is a special case, but an admiral shouldn't be weaker than an old man. He would kill akainu because of his armanent haki, which i truly believe Luffy has surpassed due to his great momentum he gets from his punches in comparison Garps. This results in a more powerful punch especially since its going at extreme speed and has huge mass.
I'm not saying that Kizaru's laser is less powerful, i'm saying that they are the same speed, and thus with luffy's current observation haki, He should be able to dodge all shots if in gear second. As we have seen Luffy's armanent haki is clearly powerful, and in my belief is enough to beat kizaru senseless. At least pre-timeskip, I can't say anything post because we haven't really seen him, but i still believe luffy would beat Kizaru.
I like how you say he can lose in other situations, yet you don't list any...
I'm not sure what you were trying to say with the luffy vs Ace thing, but going off of what you said next I'll go ahead and think that you think that Ace would win (I'm sorry if you think Luffy would win, if so please disregard the next statement). Ace would get his ass beat. simple as that. Ace(as far as we know) doesn't use observation or armanent haki. Though i'm sure he used observation haki, even though it wasn't stated his armanent haki is likely extremely lacking in comparison to luffy's since he is a logia type and doesn't focus on it as much as a paramecia would. This gives luffy an extreme advantage, since he has stronger haki. Also you say Luffy and Jimbei are near equal why? just because ace faced jimbei for a weak doesn't mean jimbei is a strong as luffy is now. And nor does that little fight between luffy and jimbei mean anything. Luffy got hit from the side once and then got one kick in and then robin interrupted. There's not enough to base a conclusion by that. I believe Luffy is most likely quite a bit stronger than jimbei because luffy still has so much hidden up his sleave. For example a ****ing gigantic armanent hand.
Also I clearly just did do that. The admirals are powerful, the yonko are powerful, but so is luffy. Rayleigh trained luffy so that when the situation came to it he would stand a chance against someone like an admiral. Do you think those two years were wasted? No, they weren't. Luffy likely had the best god damned teacher of haki in the world. This teacher of luffy's is also experienced in fighting admirals. **** Rayleigh said he couldn't ****ing teach luffy any more after a year and a half and it was up to him to hone his skills. If that's not saying, "your strong enough to handle yourself now" I don't know what is.
Also IMO I may be slightly overestimating luffy, But your clearly overestimating the yonko and admirals. It's not like the Yonko are yonko solely because of themselves, they also have very powerful crews and thus the captain is made a yonko. One person simply isn't strong enough to be made a yonko solely by themselves. Whitebeard has his crew, blackbeard his, kaido his, big mam hers, shanks his, and their crews are all strong. When you face a yonko your not just going to fight the captain... Is luffy and his crew capable of handling the yonko and their crew? I doubt it, but a 1v1 situation I would like to think Luffy would do well. And the admirals... I know that garp is strong, but hes old. Even though hes old he was 100 percent certain if sengoku let him go he would kill akainu. I know that garp is a special case, but an admiral shouldn't be weaker than an old man. He would kill akainu because of his armanent haki, which i truly believe Luffy has surpassed due to his great momentum he gets from his punches in comparison Garps. This results in a more powerful punch especially since its going at extreme speed and has huge mass.
Dr Strangelove
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I could list at least 20 people who could still beat Luffy.
However, if Sanji manages to take down Doflamingo in the next chapter it will rock the character power listings out of balance.
However, if Sanji manages to take down Doflamingo in the next chapter it will rock the character power listings out of balance.
Chinjao was way weaker than he was in his prime. Forget about him being a 500 mill or whatever, it was all in the past.
Pre Time Skip Kizaru > Post Time Skip Straw Hats. Kizaru can still use 'Yasakata no Magatama' if a/c to you his lasers and light speed ain't a problem for Luffy.
I was talking about the situations you listed that unless Luffy is somewhat trying to protect someone else, he can't lose etc etc. He can still lose under both favourable or unfavourable conditions
We haven't seen Roger using any one of the three haki, or Shanks using Kenbunshoku haki,, so that must mean that they doesn't have that, Right?. Look carefully, you are a fodder if you can't use Haki in the New World. Most of the people we have seen in the NW can use Arnament haki, so its absurd to think that a very strong commander of WB pirates doesn't possess Arnament or Observation Haki.
Also, if Jinbe vs Luffy isn't satisfying enough for you then watch the fight of Ace and Blackbeard, Ace's Entei covered up half of the Island in an instant, unless Luffy shows anything near that, he ain't beating Ace.
Luffy's Haki is strong, though it's still not top of the class. Luffy learned the basics of Haki in one and a half year, then Rayleigh left him cuz his job was done and he had business to deal with. Luffy would surely have gotten stronger in those six months but that doesn't change the fact that Yonko/Admirals>>Luffy.
Saw how Akainu overwhelmed Ace easily who is comparable to Luffy. Dude you are saying Luffy has a chance in 1 on 1 against yonko or Admirals,, I can't even react to that BS, do you even watch the show?
SharinganisOP
Active member
Even if chinajo was weaker than in his prime he is still extremely powerful. If he was determined to make Garp pay I'm sure he at the very least kept up with his training. Other old people are still powerful even though they are old, such as Garp Sengoku, Rayleigh, and whitebeard. That 500 million bounty is still very much notable.
Okay, so he shoot out a bunch of light beams at once, that is what that move is no?
Thankyou for saying he can lose under both favorable and unfavorable conditions, that is definitely a varying answer, but at least it is one.
I didn't say Ace couldn't use observation or armanent haki, I said that he likley could use it actually (just that we havn't seen any evidence for it). Also this isn't half the island
Yes Luffy is not the best with haki, i'm sure the more experienced older people are better at haki then him, however no one has momentum+mass+haki like he does. I'm sure his haki will continue to get better thoughout the manga rather quickly since he learned and mastered it so quickly. He is extremely powerful, and Rayleigh planned for it to be that way.
Of course i saw how Ace got raped by akainu, He was kept malnurished in impel down and kept in shitty shape since the fight with blackbeard. Ace was rather weak at that time, and would have definitely fared better against him, even though his death was inevitable by protecting luffy. Luffy is still more powerful.
Also do i watch the show? I watched the first 538 episodes of the show, from then on i continued to read the manga, and read the manga one more time through so i would know what is canonical and not. The only yonko whos true power we have seen is whitebeard, who is dead. Blackbeard a current yonko, took one punch from pre time skip luffy and was bleeding. Though blackbeard now has whitebeards fruit as well making him more powerful. And we havn't even seen kaido's or big mam's strength. This means your speculating just as much as i am in whether or not he would defeat a yonko, i personally believe in a 1v1 fight he would, unless with lack of knowledge like i said would be a possibillity for him to lose.
Okay, so he shoot out a bunch of light beams at once, that is what that move is no?
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, I don't think luffy will be hit by them in a way where he would die, with the combination of observation haki and gear second he should be able to dodge most of them if not all of them (And the ones he does get hit with won't be major wounds, likely he would be grazed or the strength would be diminished via armanent haki). Light speed is definitely fast, but there's no way he actually moves at light speed. No one, and I mean no one would be able to stop anything he does, Even with knowing where its going to be. An example showing its not the speed of light, is that marco was able to fly in to intercept the beams of light after they were fired which is shown here
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.Thankyou for saying he can lose under both favorable and unfavorable conditions, that is definitely a varying answer, but at least it is one.
I didn't say Ace couldn't use observation or armanent haki, I said that he likley could use it actually (just that we havn't seen any evidence for it). Also this isn't half the island
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. that is a very small part of it. The explosion between the two powers were what hit nearly half the island, which is on the next page. Luffys fist or foot is that size when in gear third and can be engulfed in haki, unlike aces entei. Ace isn't beating Post time skip luffy.Yes Luffy is not the best with haki, i'm sure the more experienced older people are better at haki then him, however no one has momentum+mass+haki like he does. I'm sure his haki will continue to get better thoughout the manga rather quickly since he learned and mastered it so quickly. He is extremely powerful, and Rayleigh planned for it to be that way.
Of course i saw how Ace got raped by akainu, He was kept malnurished in impel down and kept in shitty shape since the fight with blackbeard. Ace was rather weak at that time, and would have definitely fared better against him, even though his death was inevitable by protecting luffy. Luffy is still more powerful.
Also do i watch the show? I watched the first 538 episodes of the show, from then on i continued to read the manga, and read the manga one more time through so i would know what is canonical and not. The only yonko whos true power we have seen is whitebeard, who is dead. Blackbeard a current yonko, took one punch from pre time skip luffy and was bleeding. Though blackbeard now has whitebeards fruit as well making him more powerful. And we havn't even seen kaido's or big mam's strength. This means your speculating just as much as i am in whether or not he would defeat a yonko, i personally believe in a 1v1 fight he would, unless with lack of knowledge like i said would be a possibillity for him to lose.
akimofnevis
Active member
You hit the nail on its head with your accuracy , Luffy is super strong and skilled and is greatly underestimated that's also one of the reason a lot of his opponents are defeated by him, even doflamingo is afraid of him and is taking every measure to try and eliminate him and his crew
akimofnevis
Active member
Dude nobody in op has displayed haki at a higher level than Luffy , did you watch the fisherman arc, Luffy haki is top class, even before he learned to control his haki did you see what he did at marine fold, only person that oda states have a higher haki than Luffy was Shanks, and shanks have up his arm for Luffy because he knows Luffy will be the man to change the world, he even gave Luffy his straw hat, that's like a king given his crown to another, shanks has figuratively already crowned Luffy pirate king
Other old people like Garp, or Sengoku were definitely much weaker than they were in there prime, but not as much as Chinjao because Chinjao lost his drill too, which was the main source of his Strength. They are not comparable.
Luffy will be hit by those beams. There is no way in hell Luffy is dodging all those,, That attack easily spreads over Town level. It is easily capable of taking out Luffy along with the landscape.
And Kizaru does move at Light Speed, only in a straight line, but still he does. To do it or not, that is his own choice. Its just the same as sometimes when he fires beams from his fingers he charges them for awhile but he does not need too. It depends on him whether to do it or not.
I was talking about the explosion, doesn't matter what the initial size was, the effect is what matters. Ace's Entei>Luffy's Haki. Haki can be overcomed by brute force, if the force is even more stronger than the Haki like Luffy did with Marigold. Luffy hasn't shown any attack which is on par with the Scale of Entei.
Did Rayleigh train him or did you train him? Also I agree his Haki will get more stronger later on.
Yeah Ace was in shitty shape in Impel Down. He may have done a little better but still he was not Admiral tier and would have lost to any of the three Admirals. Luffy doesn't come near to any of the admirals currently.
If you watch the show then how can you say that Luffy can give a tough time to a Yonko or an Admiral.
Whitebeard >>> Post Time Skip Luffy,, I think this doesn't need any explanation.
Kaido >>> T.S Luffy. Even Law said that the chance their Alliance have of beating Kaido is only 30%, and mind you they are not even facing him directly. In a 1 on 1 fight, you can imagine what would happen.
Shanks>>>Luffy. Shanks clashed with whitebeard equally. Also Mihawk and Shanks are equal, so we can conclude somthing about his strength through Mihawk, who is a ''Casual'' Town Buster(Saw how he cut the Ice Berg and it seemed like he wasn't even trying). Luffy hasn't shown anything near that.
Big mom>>One Does not simply become a Yonko.
Blackbeard>> Luffy and Ace. If Luffy and Blackbeard were to fight in Impel Down, Blackbeard would have won easily. Luffy doesn't have any counter to his abiliy to take DF powers away. Current Blackbeard rolls on Gura Gura no mi too. So, yeah, its pretty clear who is stronger.
Luffy isn't weak, he surely is too strong,, its just that you are saying that he stands a chance against a Yonko or an Admiral is absurb.
He is more near the level of Doflamingo but not the top Tiers.
Show me where he said that.
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akimofnevis
Active member
Dude , Luffy can defeat the new admiral so I guess that makes Luffy admiral level
All the people who said Kizaru shits on luffy are idiots. ATM luffy can go toe to toe with Kizaru, that's for sure. I am not sure what the outcome will be but yes, he is very close to that admiral level.
ChillySnow
Member
What the ****ery is this? Luffy's haki can't even bypass the admiral's haki defense let alone beating them. Heck, even VA's like Onigumo can beat Luffy.
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Naruchigoo
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ChillySnow
Member
You must not know Vergo who is around Luffy's level would give him a extreme diff fight while there are stronger VAs.