[VS] Luffy and Zoro vs Diamond Jozu (both arms)

[Capn]

As the title says-

Location: Dressrosa

State difficulty, please and thanks.

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[Donald J Trump]

Luffy is Yonko commander level, Jozu is a little bit above that so with Zoro's help I think team 1 takes this with high difficulty.

 

[Im Still Robin]

Luffy with the one shot

 

[Dęvîa Puęrî]

I fail to see how these two win I'm sorry Jozu was able to stalemate akoiji for good period of time until distracted

Zoro honestly is utterly useless in this match up due to the fact mihawk hasn't shown to be able to cut through diamond zoro should not be able to either

Not to mention diamond and Haki :|

Hell law and luffy barely beat doffy if it wasn't for outside help there is no way I see luffy and zoro beating jozu

 

[Capn]

I fail to see how these two win I'm sorry Jozu was able to stalemate akoiji for good period of time until distracted

Zoro honestly is utterly useless in this match up due to the fact mihawk hasn't shown to be able to cut through diamond zoro should not be able to either

Not to mention diamond and Haki :|

Hell law and luffy barely beat doffy if it wasn't for outside help there is no way I see luffy and zoro beating jozu

I'd just like to point out that Diamond has notoriously shit tinsel strength, giving Luffy (a blunt force brawler) a significant advantage.

 

[Love Cook]

I'd just like to point out that Diamond has notoriously shit tinsel strength, giving Luffy (a blunt force brawler) a significant advantage.

I'd like to point out that Jozu is a blunt force brawler, with the second greatest strength feat in the Marineford war. I don't think he is a brittle guy. Besides nothing a coat of haki won't fix.

 

[Capn]

I'd like to point out that Jozu is a blunt force brawler, with the second greatest strength feat in the Marineford war. I don't think he is a brittle guy. Besides nothing a coat of haki won't fix.

A fair non-sequitor, but an irrelevancy nonetheless. My point was that Diamond, being inherently brittle despite being difficult to cut, is at a disadvantage against brute force. Jozu isn't even solid Diamond, he merely coats himself in it, only making it easier to shatter.

Jozu being a brute-brawler isn't relevant to that fact, it doesn't make his diamond any less stress-vulnerable.

Jozu can indeed apply haki, though that too is merely a coating. Unless he imbues the diamond all the way through (as opposed to just applying it to the surface as Koka is stereotypically used) it won't help much at all, really. The surface can be imbued with the most impressive CoA we've encountered thus far, that won't stop the kinetic energy from doing what it does- transferring. Luffy can leave the haki-imbued surface without so much as a crack while the energy transfers through and fragments the rest of it right beneath the surface.

Hell, Luffy doesn't even have to break ANYTHING. Jozu will be feeling the majority of the force behind every punch regardless due to the aforementioned mineral's shit-tier tinsel strength. Unlike Zoro, he isn't obligated to bypass his diamond to inflict damage. The perks of being a brutish brawler.

While I'm NOT asserting victory for any position, my point in regards to that other user is entirely valid. Jozu can clearly tank blows from Luffy, I don't even think Luffy can break his diamond, my argument is that being made of it is not some infallible, impossible-to-combat advantage for Jozu.

 

[Love Cook]

A fair non-sequitor, but an irrelevancy nonetheless. My point was that Diamond, being inherently brittle despite being difficult to cut, is at a disadvantage against brute force. Jozu isn't even solid Diamond, he merely coats himself in it, only making it easier to shatter.

Jozu being a brute-brawler isn't relevant to that fact, it doesn't make his diamond any less stress-vulnerable.

Jozu can indeed apply haki, though that too is merely a coating. Unless he imbues the diamond all the way through (as opposed to just applying it to the surface as Koka is stereotypically used) it won't help much at all, really. The surface can be imbued with the most impressive CoA we've encountered thus far, that won't stop the kinetic energy from doing what it does- transferring. Luffy can leave the haki-imbued surface without so much as a crack while the energy transfers through and fragments the rest of it right beneath the surface.

Hell, Luffy doesn't even have to break ANYTHING. Jozu will be feeling the majority of the force behind every punch regardless due to the aforementioned mineral's shit-tier tinsel strength. Unlike Zoro, he isn't obligated to bypass his diamond to inflict damage. The perks of being a brutish brawler.

While I'm NOT asserting victory for any position, my point in regards to that other user is entirely valid. Jozu can clearly tank blows from Luffy, I don't even think Luffy can break his diamond, my argument is that being made of it is not some infallible, impossible-to-combat advantage for Jozu.

You're looking too much in to it. We're talking manga physics here.

Where rubber is stretchy and diamond is hard. If you want to take this so serious maybe we should ask ourselves why Luffy has never snapped like a rubber band. Because that is the fate of rubber.

If Oda depict Jozu as a diamond man, he is saying this is a tough guy to hurt, this is one of the best defenses in the world. Brook can heal his bone injuries pretty fast by drinking a lot of milk. That is another hyperbole of a real world appliance used in the One Piece world.

We can agree to disagree but I don't think that Oda would make Jozu brittle to blunt force.

 

[Rikudou Tobi]

I don't see them cutting diamond and I don't see jozu catching them with a blitz like he did crocodile. Full body diamond would keep him stationary so they'll need to attack the open areas. I really don't know who would win

 

[Capn]

You're looking too much in to it. We're talking manga physics here.

Where rubber is stretchy and diamond is hard. If you want to take this so serious maybe we should ask ourselves why Luffy has never snapped like a rubber band. Because that is the fate of rubber.

If Oda depict Jozu as a diamond man, he is saying this is a tough guy to hurt, this is one of the best defenses in the world. Brook can heal his bone injuries pretty fast by drinking a lot of milk. That is another hyperbole of a real world appliance used in the One Piece world.

We can agree to disagree but I don't think that Oda would make Jozu brittle to blunt force.

I'll have to respectfully disagree, my friend. I'd say you're not looking into it enough.

While One Piece clearly isn't THAT scientifically accurate it isn't completely without science either. Yeah, it's shounen, but that doesn't obligate or insinuate that it stick to 1st grade fundamentals. Look at Bounce Man, for example. It is literally the application of CoA to manipulate one's own elasticity to the point of turning their arm into a freaking canon, dude. One Piece is more than just "Rubber is stretchy, kids!", you know?

Luffy is superhumanly durable like many others in the OP-verse. That would be why his rubber body doesn't snap from all if his exports. Also, we know there IS a limit to how much he can stretch without snapping, as stated by Oda and shown in WCI before Jinbei's rescue act.

See, arguing for author portrayal is nigh-IMPOSSIBLE. Unless you've spoken to Oda or have a statement, I can't see how you'd know his position on the matter. Though, if you want to use his work as evidence I'd like to redirect you to Bounce Man. Also, Red Hawk. That shit is legitimate science. Rubber can self-ignite through the adiabatic process. If Rubber is stretched very quickly before the heat can dispel it will be hot. You can try this at home with your everyday rubber band. With enough force and a high enough velocity one can stretch a rubber band and make it burst into flames. Add Luffy's durability and haki to the mix for heat/force-resistance and more brute force and there you go- Red Hawk. Is that not science? It's also simple enough to perform without Luffy having to know anything about thermodynamics. As far as he's concerned, if he sends a haki punch super-duper fast it makes a big BOOM and that's all he really needs to know.

What about Caesar using his Gasu-Gasu to remove all of the oxygen within a certain radius, thus turning it into a space filled with nothing but nitrogen, a deadly poison if consumed on its own?

In light of these many post-elementary applications of physics and general science I'd say something as simple as giving Jozu's diamond regular (but highly exaggerated) properties of diamond or at least the same basic composition isn't at all a stretch due to Oda not expanding on science. It's something he actually does pretty often.

Though, we can disagree.

Sorry for Bible #2. Don't ban.

 

[chopstickchakra]

Luffy is Yonko commander level, Jozu is a little bit above that so with Zoro's help I think team 1 takes this with high difficulty.

How can Jozu be above what he actually is?

 

[Punk Hazard]

Gotta love the notion of Oda giving the guy who fights by smashing himself into things a power that is brittle to smashing.s

 

[Capn]

Gotta love the notion of Oda giving the guy who fights by smashing himself into things a power that is brittle to smashing.s

Yes, because ridicule is excellent refutation. You've certainly cemented your bullet-proof argument, friend. Though, I'll note that ramming himself into things doesn't contradict or contest a single aspect of my claim from any angle~

 

[Punk Hazard]

Yes, because ridicule is excellent refutation. You've certainly cemented your bullet-proof argument, friend. Though, I'll note that ramming himself into things doesn't contradict or contest a single aspect of my claim from any angle~

I'm not saying your argument is wrong, I'm saying it'd make no sense for Oda put something that is brittle when smashed onto a guy who fights by smashing himself into things.

Like, sure, diamond is brittle to smashing, but it'd be pretty illogical for Oda to implement it that realistically for someone like Jozu.

 

[Capn]

I'm not saying your argument is wrong, I'm saying it'd make no sense for Oda put something that is brittle when smashed onto a guy who fights by smashing himself into things.

Like, sure, diamond is brittle to smashing, but it'd be pretty illogical for Oda to implement it that realistically for someone like Jozu.

That's the thing, I haven't said or implied that it would be brittle per-say. I believe that it is indeed breakable and that Luffy has a higher chance of doing so than Zoro. I also believe that Jozu would have more trouble with Luffy's ridiculous brute force than people think. I personally don't think that he can even scratch Jozu's diamond, but the advantage is still on the table due to the nature of the mineral.

In most cases his defenses are absolute, in others (against brute-brawler that are at least comparable to him in that sector) it isn't. It's still an amp to his regular defenses and he's still "that guy with the insane defense", it just won't be as insane against certain people. That's all I'm saying. Lol.

 

[Punk Hazard]

That's the thing, I haven't said or implied that it would be brittle per-say. I believe that it is indeed breakable and that Luffy has a higher chance of doing so than Zoro. I also believe that Jozu would have more trouble with Luffy's ridiculous brute force than people think. I personally don't think that he can even scratch Jozu's diamond, but the advantage is still on the table due to the nature of the mineral.

In most cases his defenses are absolute, in others (against brute-brawler that are at least comparable to him in that sector) it isn't. It's still an amp to his regular defenses and he's still "that guy with the insane defense", it just won't be as insane against certain people. That's all I'm saying. Lol.

I agree with this.

 

[Tomato God]

Jozu could have taken Kazan if he hadn't been distracted jozu couldn't be cut by Mohawk. Jozu mid diff

 

[Wrappering_]

were the dumb pics necessary?



OT: Brook is enough for him.

 

[LBeezy]

"Mihawk hasn't cut diamond"

"Zoro can't cut diamond"

So this makes Zoro a stuffed animal who is completely useless in this fight?

OK. Ya.. no.


OT:

I see this match up boiling down to straight up stamina.. and for that, I give Luffy and Zoro the win.

 

[Punk Hazard]

"Mihawk hasn't cut diamond"

"Zoro can't cut diamond"

So this makes Zoro a stuffed animal who is completely useless in this fight?

OK. Ya.. no.


OT:

I see this match up boiling down to straight up stamina.. and for that, I give Luffy and Zoro the win.

What can he do when he can't injure Jozu?