LOLL Kishimoto proves Sarutobi's hype wrong, LMAO

[Lrrrrr]

A scan to end all of the hiruzen fans.. Since your relying on Iruka's " said to be strongest hokage"... And it was said in part 1.. then we will also use a scan from part 1. A scan that says Tobirama and Hashirama > Sarutobi:

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And what happened after that? Hiruzen owned um U_U

 

[TheSages456]

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Right, it was stated by both Dan and Madara that only Hashirama can defeat Madara... we know this,

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but as exaar said, Muu also stated that only Onooki can defeat him,
You claim he was speaking of the people on the battlefield ?

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No.. If he was, he would have said, you're the only person here who can defeat me... he did not say that... he said exactly what madara etc said... You're the only person who can defeat me...

By YOUR logic, and this entire threads logic, automatically Muu > Madara , Muu > Hashirama... Don't be stupid.. these statements aren't to be taken as fact..... Muu could not possibly know all the ninjas who existed at that time...
If muu knew of nagato etc, he would never have said such a thing.... Naruto was the one to defeat muu, rendering his statement fallacious ..... The fact that madara and dan, like muu know nothing of any other ninjas of the current time renders their entire statement void




Let's put the icing on the cake

The only info Dan would ever have on Madara is what? up to EMS ...If there are any information on him in books, then it would only go up to him having ems, since he went into hiding afterwards...
EMS Madara

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Would have been defeated by the combination of Onooki, Gaara and Naruto
If Madara did not have rinnegan, it would have been over..

This means that DAN'S statement is instantly void... since he stated that only Hashirama can defeat EMS madara


Now lets look at the Viz scan of what madara actually said

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"Only hashirama could ever stop me "
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This can be interpreted in two ways, the one I believe due to the obvious evidence stated above, is he was speaking in PAST tense , And saying Hashirama was the only person who could ever stop him in the past, and he's not here at the moment....
That would be a logical thing that madara would say.. since he clearly doesn't know the strengths of the ninja who exists in this time.. It would make NO sense for him to be talking in the present tense

LMFAO what kind of crap is this? kishis portrayal of how only hashirama can beat madara isnt contradicted as of yet since none of the shinobi that madara is facing can beat him so your nonsense about dans statement being voided is countered right there. "only hashirama could ever stop me" isnt contradicted since none of the new shinobi(naruto, kakashi, guy) can beat him anyways.

naruto didnt beat mu by himself unless you crossed into some alternate dimension where naruto and his clones soloed the edo army with no other shinobi around.

 

[LegendaryAce]

But you havent seen what hashirama can do.. You are only going off what people have said.. Other than seening flowering tree world and wood dragon, you know nothing of hashirama's strength and what he can truely do..

Erm ... Madara .. Yamato .. I dare say zetsu are used to show hashiramas techniques

 

[Superior]

But you havent seen what hashirama can do.. You are only going off what people have said.. Other than seening flowering tree world and wood dragon, you know nothing of hashirama's strength and what he can truely do..

This is where it gets interesting. What you say is true. We have seen only some of Hashirama's abilities through Edo-Madara, and yet these abilities alone make him stronger than Hiruzen. As you say, we have yet to see what he can fully do. The same could arguably be said for Hiruzen, except for one thing.
What we have seen of Hiruzen is not on the same level as what we have seen of Hashirama. This can not be denied. Do you mean to tell me that if we judged a fight between the two of them solely on what we have seen, excluding all hype, that Hiruzen Sarutobi would come out on top? Not even you can be that dense right?

 

[KingHashirama]

And what happened after that? Hiruzen owned um U_U

What happened after was.. they left like bosses .. right after toying with Hiruzen.

 

[Whalelord]

Did someone say oonoki doesn't complain about passing his prime lol

OOnoki complaining about his hip

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Oonoki back goes out again lol

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oonoki back goes out yet again

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Even tsnuade in her 50z worlds greatest medical ninja talks about passing her prime

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Hiruzen held his ground hows is 3 kages vs 1 even a fair fight and on top of that 2 were immortal with undieing bodies and unlimited chakra and orochimaru had token the body of a youth. In the **** but hurt all over

 

[Lrrrrr]

What happened after was.. they left like bosses .. right after toying with Hiruzen.

I think this signals my victory to our little debate. It was fun, but facts rule over fanboyism

 

[Superior]

Did someone say oonoki doesn't complain about passing his prime lol

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OOnoki complaining about his hip

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Oonoki back goes out again lol

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oonoki back goes out yet again

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Even tsnuade in her 50z worlds greatest medical ninja talks about passing her prime

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Hiruzen held his ground hows is 3 kages vs 1 even a fair fight and on top of that 2 were immortal with undieing bodies and unlimited chakra and orochimaru had token the body of a youth. In the **** but hurt all over

None of the scans you showed effectively proved the point you were trying to make. What you were trying to say is that Oonoki, like Hiruzen complains about his old age and "passing his prime". In all of those scans, it is shown that Oonoki's old age troubles him at times, but I didn't see him once complain about it. In fact, Oonoki takes the pain as is and still fights through it; without complaining once.

Yes, he is old, and it does affect him from time to time. But he doesn't use it as an excuse like Hiruzen did in his fight with Orochimaru. Correct me if what I've said is wrong.

 

[KingHashirama]

I think this signals my victory to our little debate. It was fun, but facts rule over fanboyism

Yes they do. ;] That even after Hiruzen's prime. Tobirama and Hashirama were hailed as the Best shinobi.

 

[LegendaryAce]

I think this signals my victory to our little debate. It was fun, but facts rule over fanboyism

I do believe hiruzen was being owned until he had no choice but to use a move that kills him( that being a suicide move- last hope) also that isn't winning its drawing at most

Minato vs kyubi did minato win?

 

[MickNerks]

WRONG. We have no FEATS of Hiruzen's prime.... Yet Hashirama has the feat of taking on the strongest out of the 9 tailed beasts and the strongest Uchiha...

Could it be possible that hiruzen doesnt have any battle feats because no1 was foolish enough to challenge him..lol But you right there is feats for hiruzen prime other than his enormous chakra levels and the databook giving him all 5's in everything.

Also where is it stated Hiruzen IS the strongest Hokage??? where? or the IS the strongest Shinobi.. hell strongest and shinobi aren't even used togather for him. lmao.

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It says he is the stongest among the other 3 hokages on the wall behind him.

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He was hailed (acclaimed) as the God of Shinobi

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It is said that he is the strongest amongs the 5 kages. Seeing how kabuto isnt from the leaf village implies that it is said by people from diffrent countrys and villages.

Also, your 1000 jutsus doesn't mean anything.. since Kakashi is 1000+ now. ;x.

hiruzen knows more than 1000 jutsus, and he had an enormous chakra pool in his prime, which is what makes him diffrent from kakashi. Hiruzen has all 5's in data book in his prime. Kahashi does not.

Lets put together the manga...

Dan says : Only the first hokage could stop Madara

Obito: Strongest Shinobi of his time

Madara : People CALLED him the strongest shinobi./ Ultimate Shinobi


Ok so Dan says Ems Madara > Hiruzen automatically. And since Ems Madara > Hiruzen... and Hashirama was in Madara's time.. and was the most feared and the strongest shinobi... in which way in hell is he not the strongest.

Ok. we can do the same with hiruzen.

Iruka: We is the greatest amongs all hokages

Orochimaru: He who is hailed as God of SHinobi

Kabuto: It is said he is the greatest among all 5 kages

So accroding to Iruka, Hiruzen > Hashirama automatically. And since orochimaru and kabuto who know everything about the shinobi would deemed hiruzen as god of shinobi and the strongest of all kage that makes him more powerful then hashirama.

 

[MickNerks]

Erm ... Madara .. Yamato .. I dare say zetsu are used to show hashiramas techniques

but they dont show if he really has superior medical jutsu, they dont show his chakra levels, they dont show if he was good at taijutsu, kinjutsu, and other forms of ninjutsu other than mokuton. There is alot you still dont know because you havent seen him. All you really know is that he can use mokuton.

 

[EL MAGNIFICO]

Well first of all i would like to suggest that "God of shinobi" title doesn't mean that the person to whom the title is assumed is the strongest person ... Don't you guys look at the qualities , virtues , kindness etc etc of that shinobi ??? ... If not , then i would like to know what would you call the most powerful creature with an evil mindset ..the demon or the God ??

 

[MickNerks]

This is where it gets interesting. What you say is true. We have seen only some of Hashirama's abilities through Edo-Madara, and yet these abilities alone make him stronger than Hiruzen. As you say, we have yet to see what he can fully do. The same could arguably be said for Hiruzen, except for one thing.
What we have seen of Hiruzen is not on the same level as what we have seen of Hashirama. This can not be denied. Do you mean to tell me that if we judged a fight between the two of them solely on what we have seen, excluding all hype, that Hiruzen Sarutobi would come out on top? Not even you can be that dense right?

Hiruzen has shown us that he could counter or escape mokuton. So the one thing that we have seen from hashirama thru himself and madara is mokuton and hiruzen has been shown to escape it.. Soo what does that mean??????

 

[KingHashirama]

Could it be possible that hiruzen doesnt have any battle feats because no1 was foolish enough to challenge him..lol But you right there is feats for hiruzen prime other than his enormous chakra levels and the databook giving him all 5's in everything.

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It says he is the stongest among the other 3 hokages on the wall behind him.

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He was hailed (acclaimed) as the God of Shinobi

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It is said that he is the strongest amongs the 5 kages. Seeing how kabuto isnt from the leaf village implies that it is said by people from diffrent countrys and villages.


hiruzen knows more than 1000 jutsus, and he had an enormous chakra pool in his prime, which is what makes him diffrent from kakashi. Hiruzen has all 5's in data book in his prime. Kahashi does not.





Ok. we can do the same with hiruzen.

Iruka: We is the greatest amongs all hokages

Orochimaru: He who is hailed as God of SHinobi

Kabuto: It is said he is the greatest among all 5 kages

So accroding to Iruka, Hiruzen > Hashirama automatically. And since orochimaru and kabuto who know everything about the shinobi would deemed hiruzen as god of shinobi and the strongest of all kage that makes him more powerful then hashirama.

1. Its impossible for a shinobi to not have any battle feats.. like literally. Nor has he shown any techs as strong as Regeneration and Mokuton. ;]. Even if he was a old man.. I'm pretty sure he could've been as strong as Onoki was...

2. Your picture is countered by this scan right when he goes against 2 of the people next to him on the wall ;p:

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3. I agree he was the strongest of the 5 kages. I believe Sarutobi > 3rd Raikage. Due to his hype. But feats wise 3rd Raikage > Sarutobi..... and Kabuto is from the leaf ;x

4. I never read any thing about him having enormous chakra pool. But its already stated Uzumaki and Senju have the highest chakra.. Hashirama being the strongest senju > Sarutobi.. in chakra. And about the databook.. why use it when the other 2 don't have stats ;p lmao.

5. You failed at trying to do the same. why?? Because what Iruka stated is what he heard.. not his opinion.. he casually said " He was said to be ".. But the anbu said " They are hailed as". see the difference??

 

[Owarij]

LMFAO what kind of crap is this? kishis portrayal of how only hashirama can beat madara isnt contradicted as of yet since none of the shinobi that madara is facing can beat him so your nonsense about dans statement being voided is countered right there. "only hashirama could ever stop me" isnt contradicted since none of the new shinobi(naruto, kakashi, guy) can beat him anyways.

naruto didnt beat mu by himself unless you crossed into some alternate dimension where naruto and his clones soloed the edo army with no other shinobi around.

Your ability to read and understand, what is wrong with it? A statementt like that isnt specific to the amount in a battle...if madara while fighting 5 kage said the onky person that csn stop him is hashirama',he is not talking about just a 1V1. ..You may want to take a look at what muu said 'Numbers dont matter, '.yet naruto was the one to engage him in combat and deliver critical hits. .....AS for dans statement,once again' the onky madara dan knows of is ems madara... Ems madara woukd have been defeated by onooki,gaara and naruto...proving dans statement incorrect...not onky that bout kabuto can easily deefeat EMS madara so i have no idea what you are talking about... on my phone btw, I apologize for any gramatical errors

 

[MickNerks]

2. Your picture is countered by this scan right when he goes against 2 of the people next to him on the wall ;p:

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It only says that they are the best shinobi. Orochimaru says that hiruzen is HAILED as the God of Shinobi.

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3. I agree he was the strongest of the 5 kages. I believe Sarutobi > 3rd Raikage. Due to his hype. But feats wise 3rd Raikage > Sarutobi..... and Kabuto is from the leaf ;x

Kabuto is not from the leaf. He is a war orphaned child, whos orphanage was on the out skirts of konoha. When he joined root he became a spy and traveled to many other villages. He wasnt recruited to spy in konoha until he began working for orochimaru, so the info gathered from him is gathers from many villages, not just the leaf.

5. You failed at trying to do the same. why?? Because what Iruka stated is what he heard.. not his opinion.. he casually said " He was said to be ".. But the anbu said " They are hailed as". see the difference??

Orochimaru says he was hailed as God of shinobi, he didnt say he was said to be.

 

[startup97]

I still participate however i like to see both sides just troll each other. Ill give my two cents though.
First is that both sides do not understand the manga, yep that is what i said. Both sides do not understand the manga.

Hiruzen was said to be the strongest and this echoed from the manga to the DB. Reason why Hiruzen was the strongest has nothing to do with the raw power that hashirama commands. Hiruzen was trained by both the 2 previous hokage's. Both were senju and this clan was said to be a clan with 1000 skills (or something like that). Hashirama/Tobirama passed on these skills to Hiruzen and that is why even at such an old age he is the only ninja in the series so far to command maximum stats in the 3 ninja arts. Secondly Hashirama left thousands of scrolls for the next generation of hokage's, most likely technique's from his clan (1000 skills by hype). Hiruzen was got his name the professor for leaning/understand all the technique's in these scrolls, something that i doubt even hashirama/tobirama couldve done because they didnt live to the age hiruzen did, but also the sarutobi clan were said to grasp technique's fairly quickly.

With the understanding of these technique's that were left in his possession he was quickly able to note the weaknesses of hashirama's bringer of darkness technique. Apart from blinding the opponent, all the others sense are not effected therefore smell, hear, touch and taste are the weaknesses of this technique and hiruzen took advantage of his understanding of his teacher's technique, which allowed him to overcome the technique and seal his previous teacher's.

You hear the quote "Knowledge is power". That is what hiruzen has over the previous hokage. Ill even give you a manga page, which might allow you to understand what im saying

Just read what jiraiya is thinking about here;

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That is basically why hiruzen is the strongest. It has not so much to do with raw power but years and years of knowledge which would allowed him to defeat either hokage's in a fight.

What dan said is rathe straight forward. I do know whether prime hiruzen can defeat ems madara or not, though i agree dan lived during prime hiruzen's time. What i do know is that hashirama is the best counter for ems madara so much that it makes sense why danosaid what he did. It would be extremely hard for anybody else to defeat madara without having counters for his abilities.

Example hashirama's bringer of darkness trolls sharingan based genjutsu. If it blinds the user so to speak and the user only see's pitch black. They obviously arent getting any eye contact to use genjutsu.

Secondly is the ability to create mokuton clones and we know the clones troll genjutsu

Thirdly, hashirama is a kage bunshin user and its his scroll that naruto scroll in part 1. Clones troll genjutsu

Mokuton allows the user the ability to fight from all ranges. Short/mid/long. By fighting mid/long range hashirama further trolls sharingan genjutsu because its short range.

He must be a very good suiton user and by hype he has a large chakra reserve to counter madara's very high katon jutsu's by himself.

He has the wood dragon, which as we know suppresses bijuu.

He is the husband of an uzumaki. Its very possible that mito thought hashirama uzumaki technique's just like how kushina thought minato. Its possible that its a similar contract technique that hashirama used to undo the genjutsu casted on the fox like what minato did to obito

Its possible that with the wood dragon he can also surpress chakra and not just bijuu chakra and this can cause madara trouble and perhaps limit his use of susano. Yamato has shown the ability to control to an extent kisame's chakra. Its possible that hashirama can do the same therefore further limiting madara.

Finally. Whilst Hiruzen is the strongest hokage due to him most likely being the most skilful/versatile overall because of experience with ninjutsu and other forms of ninja art, but more importantly because of the knowledge he has on the previous hokage's.

Hashirama is stronger than hiruzen if we were to pit them up against high level opponents i can see hashirama winning more fights than hiruzen, though its just hype. However if we were to revert this and put them back in their hokage position, hiruzen is above hashirama. Hashirama would have trouble facing his former student than any other random high level ninja

You are a legend!
BTW Itachi rocks!

 

[Lrrrrr]

I do believe hiruzen was being owned until he had no choice but to use a move that kills him( that being a suicide move- last hope) also that isn't winning its drawing at most

Minato vs kyubi did minato win?

Sure he was being beaten, but he was still keeping up with Edo 1st and 2nd hokage, plus Oro - he was also old. It is considered winning because he made Oro run away. Not only that, it was his student, it's even harder. Minato did win - he beat Tobi and made him run away, and sealed the Kyubi. He saved the village, and defeated his enemies, so that's a win.

 

[MickNerks]

Sure he was being beaten, but he was still keeping up with Edo 1st and 2nd hokage, plus Oro - he was also old. It is considered winning because he made Oro run away. Not only that, it was his student, it's even harder. Minato did win - he beat Tobi and made him run away, and sealed the Kyubi. He saved the village, and defeated his enemies, so that's a win.

That is true.. He stopped orochimaru's plans and/or goals. and he achieved his goals, so hiruzen won.