Lightning moving at 1/3 the speed of light.

[DrProof]

The guy makes it seem as if sasuke's or zetsu's eyes are infallible. Zetsu failed to see sasuke use oro substitution until itachi walked over to the corpse sasuke left behind. And the same applies to itachi even tho his ms is superior in tracking movements than sasuke's 3t. But you want me to believe that even tho that slipped past their eyes they're still gonna see itachi put up susanoo.

No need to argue further. Anyone with common sense, or further examination can realize Itachi didn't react to Kirin, but merely Sasuke's hand.

 

[The Necromancer]

The guy makes it seem as if sasuke's or zetsu's eyes are infallible. Zetsu failed to see sasuke use oro substitution until itachi walked over to the corpse sasuke left behind. And the same applies to itachi even tho his ms is superior in tracking movements than sasuke's 3t. But you want me to believe that even tho that slipped past their eyes they're still gonna see itachi put up susanoo.

You believe that Sasuke's 3t can't see a massive chakra warrior come up before the lightning strikes?

No need to argue further. Anyone with common sense, or further examination can realize Itachi didn't react to Kirin, but merely Sasuke's hand.

Deny all you want, I really don't care. The manga shows you proof against your belief.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

You believe that Sasuke's 3t can't see a massive chakra warrior come up before the lightning strikes?

It's more believable than itachi activates susanoo in reaction to lightning itself even though he's failed to react to slower things within that same fight.

Fact is the manga doesn't show definitive proof for either since the 1 scan we do see itachi in its too close to tell if susanoo is up or not, but my logic is a helluva lot more sound then yours.

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ohmygod.jpg none of these people saw sasuke put up susanoo. Not even the raikage who was right there cradling him in his arms, but they must have seen it. Surely right?


:kk::kk: your argument in a nutshell.

 

[DrProof]

It's more believable than itachi activates susanoo in reaction to lightning itself even though he's failed to react to slower things within that same fight.

Fact is the manga doesn't show definitive proof for either since the 1 scan we do see itachi in its too close to tell if susanoo is up or not, but my logic is a helluva lot more sound then yours.

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ohmygod.jpg none of these people saw sasuke put up susanoo. Not even the raikage who was right there cradling him in his arms, but they must have seen it. Surely right?


:kk::kk: your argument in a nutshell.

Last portion buried it.

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[The Necromancer]

It's more believable than itachi activates susanoo in reaction to lightning itself even though he's failed to react to slower things within that same fight.

Fact is the manga doesn't show definitive proof for either since the 1 scan we do see itachi in its too close to tell if susanoo is up or not, but my logic is a helluva lot more sound then yours.

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ohmygod.jpg none of these people saw sasuke put up susanoo. Not even the raikage who was right there cradling him in his arms, but they must have seen it. Surely right?


:kk::kk: your argument in a nutshell.

Nice strawman, seeing as how none of the other characters had a Sharingan. Logic is funny, huh?

1. Unless you believe Sasuke is literally retarded, then here is him stating that Kirin cannot be dodged or avoided despite his hand movement tell.

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2. Here's Zetsu and Sasuke specifically watching the detonation, meaning they were watching before the detonation as well, meaning a massive chakra (you know, that stuff the Sharingan sees as ****ing highlighted?) monster appearing before the strike would be seen.

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3. Here's Zetsu and Sasuke being confused about what Itachi is using, meaning they had never seen it before, meaning they didn't see it before Kirin even struck.

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4. Here are the scans which show that there wasn't even a single panel between an image of Itachi that Sasuke would have also seen, and the landing of Kirin, which means there was no time in which Itachi could have used Susano'o without Sasuke's perception.

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5. Here's Itachi using a jutsu that requires hand seals faster than a 3t sharingan can perceive.

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6. And here is where I tell you that Itachi's inability to dodge a Shuriken does not translate over to his ability to activate a Jutsu with no movement and no seals required, as Tsukuyomi stunted his bodily movement, but has no affect whatsoever on his ability to produce chakra and jutsu.

 

[InfiniteMugen]

The guy makes it seem as if sasuke's or zetsu's eyes are infallible. Zetsu failed to see sasuke use oro substitution until itachi walked over to the corpse sasuke left behind. And the same applies to itachi even tho his ms is superior in tracking movements than sasuke's 3t. But you want me to believe that even tho that slipped past their eyes they're still gonna see itachi put up susanoo.



So we're saying this water shark(s):

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are inherently weaker than these:

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because 1 comes from a present water source and the other comes from a pre existing water source made of chakra

That would depend on how much power he puts into them wouldn’t it?

 

[BenjerminGaye]

Nice strawman, seeing as how none of the other characters had a Sharingan. Logic is funny, huh?

1. Unless you believe Sasuke is literally retarded, then here is him stating that Kirin cannot be dodged or avoided despite his hand movement tell.

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2. Here's Zetsu and Sasuke specifically watching the detonation, meaning they were watching before the detonation as well, meaning a massive chakra (you know, that stuff the Sharingan sees as ****ing highlighted?) monster appearing before the strike would be seen.

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3. Here's Zetsu and Sasuke being confused about what Itachi is using, meaning they had never seen it before, meaning they didn't see it before Kirin even struck.

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4. Here are the scans which show that there wasn't even a single panel between an image of Itachi that Sasuke would have also seen, and the landing of Kirin, which means there was no time in which Itachi could have used Susano'o without Sasuke's perception.

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5. Here's Itachi using a jutsu that requires hand seals faster than a 3t sharingan can perceive.

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6. And here is where I tell you that Itachi's inability to dodge a Shuriken does not translate over to his ability to activate a Jutsu with no movement and no seals required, as Tsukuyomi stunted his bodily movement, but has no affect whatsoever on his ability to produce chakra and jutsu.

is not a strawman if youre proving me right. You're assuming sasuke and zetsu would see itachi put up the susanoo, and because they "failed to do so " it didn't happen

If Susano'o came out any earlier than the explosion, Zetsu and Sasuke would have seen it. They didn't, so it didn't.

The same way i can call u on by saying all of the ppl would have seen sasuke put up susanoo. Heck some of them are even sensors. But because they failed to do so it didn... up wait nope.. sasuke actually did put it up, despite them not noticing. Raikage didn't notice. Darui thought he was dead. Same goes for the samurai.

End of argument-_- trying to split hairs doesn't really change your premise that i already destroyed.-_-

That would depend on how much power he puts into them wouldn’t it?

we're going under the assumption that power is a constant. Lets keep it clinical.

Scenario 1: Kisame uses water shark from nearby river
Scenario 2: Kisame uses water shark from the lake he spat out of his mouth prior. The lake jutsu is separate from the water shark.

Is one stronger than the other due to preexisting natural water?

 

[The Necromancer]

is not a strawman if youre proving me right. You're assuming sasuke and zetsu would see itachi put up the susanoo, and because they "failed to do so " it didn't happen



The same way i can call u on by saying all of the ppl would have seen sasuke put up susanoo. Heck some of them are even sensors. But because they failed to do so it didn... up wait nope.. sasuke actually did put it up, despite them not noticing.

End of argument-_- trying to split hairs doesn't really change your premise that i already destroyed.-_-

1. Sensors aren't passive, they're active. Karin not sensing = Karin not sensing.

2. The Raikage did see Susano'o you moron. It's literally in the next ****ing panel he's in. Just like Itachi, Sasuke used it AS the jutsu landed, not before.

The fact that your response can only address my very first comment proves to me that your ignorance has routed your ability to read.

 

[BenjerminGaye]

1. Sensors aren't passive, they're active. Karin not sensing = Karin not sensing.

2. The Raikage did see Susano'o you moron. It's literally in the next ****ing panel he's in.

The fact that your response can only address my very first comment proves to me that your ignorance has routed your ability to read.

1.Chee was already put out of commission in the chapter prior so yes karin was actively sensing.

2. Raikage doesn't notice until the third page.I posted all 3 for a reason. Well after sasuke made contact with the floor.

According to u he should have noticed instantly. Because why not? they all see sasuke. But he like everyone else doesn't. Sasuke didn't take any damage from the liger bomb Meaning his susanoo was up before he even made contact with the floor. Yet he doesn't notice or react until bits and pieces are falling off the ribcage.

So why is it outside the realm of possibility for sasuke and zetsu not to pick up on the same exact situation?

 

[The Necromancer]

1.Chee was already put out of commission in the chapter prior so yes karin was actively sensing.

2. Raikage doesn't notice until the third page.I posted all 3 for a reason. Well after sasuke made contact with the floor.

According to u he should have noticed instantly. Because why not? they all see sasuke. But he like everyone else doesn't. Sasuke didn't take any damage from the liger bomb Meaning his susanoo was up before he even made contact with the floor. Yet he doesn't notice or react until bits and pieces are falling off the ribcage.

So why is it outside the realm of possibility for sasuke and zetsu not to pick up on the same exact situation?

This is where the jutsu lands. All 3 panels are of the same moment.

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This is where Ay notices. It's the next panel of the manga. Every frame between the jutsu landing an the Raikage noticing is happening at the time of the jutsu. No time passes before Ay notices.

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Then we notice that Sasuke has used Susano'o.

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Your perception of time is god awful.

Funny how you're latching onto this argument, however, seeing as how Sasuke didn't use his jutsu before the blast. He used it as it landed, which is what I'm arguing for Itachi.

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Guess it's not the same situation after all.

I'll give you that Karin was sensing at the time, I had recalled that she needed to have a hand seal going at the time, but upon rereading you were correct.

However this scan can imply that she has felt Sasuke's Susano'o chakra flare, or that she is scared for Sasuke's life. Seeing as how it's impossible to tell which, it's a moot point and can't be used for either side of the debate.

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[BenjerminGaye]

This is where the jutsu lands. All 3 panels are of the same moment.

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This is where Ay notices. It's the next panel of the manga. Every frame between the jutsu landing an the Raikage noticing is happening at the time of the jutsu. No time passes before Ay notices.

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Then we notice that Sasuke has used Susano'o.

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Your perception of time is god awful.

Funny how you're latching onto this argument, however, seeing as how Sasuke didn't use his jutsu before the blast. He used it as it landed, which is what I'm arguing for Itachi.

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Guess it's not the same situation after all.

I'll give you that Karin was sensing at the time, I had recalled that she needed to have a hand seal going at the time, but upon rereading you were correct.

However this scan can imply that she has felt Sasuke's Susano'o chakra flare, or that she is scared for Sasuke's life. Seeing as how it's impossible to tell which, it's a moot point and can't be used for either side of the debate.

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He didn't use susanno before the blast? You're borderline idiotic now. Its the contact with the floor that causes the explosion. If he didn't put it up prior he'd be bead. If he put it up during he'd be dead.

Darui claim death outloud. I can't.

 

[Imperious]

He didn't use susanno before the blast? You're borderline idiotic now. Its the contact with the floor that causes the explosion. If he didn't put it up prior he'd be bead. If he put it up during he'd be dead.

Darui claim death outloud. I can't.

I have been observing this debate and I think that you both brought up a lot of great arguments that needed to be taken into consideration. However, it seems that time and time again, Necromancer has refuted and debunked your reasoning with feasible logic, and it seems quite clear who is correct at this point. The quality of your responses are gradually deteriorating and you seem to be dragging out a now needless debate as you stretch what little, deluded arguments that you can hold on to. Please be humble and concede, there's nothing bad about being wrong.​

​

 

[InfiniteMugen]

is not a strawman if youre proving me right. You're assuming sasuke and zetsu would see itachi put up the susanoo, and because they "failed to do so " it didn't happen



The same way i can call u on by saying all of the ppl would have seen sasuke put up susanoo. Heck some of them are even sensors. But because they failed to do so it didn... up wait nope.. sasuke actually did put it up, despite them not noticing. Raikage didn't notice. Darui thought he was dead. Same goes for the samurai.

End of argument-_- trying to split hairs doesn't really change your premise that i already destroyed.-_-




we're going under the assumption that power is a constant. Lets keep it clinical.

Scenario 1: Kisame uses water shark from nearby river
Scenario 2: Kisame uses water shark from the lake he spat out of his mouth prior. The lake jutsu is separate from the water shark.

Is one stronger than the other due to preexisting natural water?

In that case no, i don’t see why, so youd have a point. Although kisame is one of the few that would be able to carry around a “power source” like that tbh

 

[BenjerminGaye]

I have been observing this debate and I think that you both brought up a lot of great arguments that needed to be taken into consideration. However, it seems that time and time again, Necromancer has refuted and debunked your reasoning with feasible logic, and it seems quite clear who is correct at this point. The quality of your responses are gradually deteriorating and you seem to be dragging out a now needless debate as you stretch what little, deluded arguments that you can hold on to. Please be humble and concede, there's nothing bad about being wrong.​

​

he didn't debunk anything tho... In both cases he tries to give a play by play (splitting hairs which i already called him out for) of what he thinks happened when in it's not what happened.

You have him saying stuff like:

Funny how you're latching onto this argument, however, seeing as how Sasuke didn't use his jutsu before the blast. He used it as it landed, which is what I'm arguing for Itachi.

Even tho the bast itself is a result of him colliding with the floor. How could sasuke activate susanno
"as it landed," . His back would have already been in contact with the floor with would undoubtedly kill him.

Why should I take something like that seriously when I already pointed out the flaw in his argument in both examples.

In that case no, i don’t see why, so youd have a point. Although kisame is one of the few that would be able to carry around a “power source” like that tbh

yeah he's one of the few that can pull that off. So its kinda situational. Good thing to note tho.

 

[Imperious]

Even tho the bast itself is a result of him colliding with the floor. How could sasuke activate susanno
"as it landed," . His back would have already been in contact with the floor with would undoubtedly kill him.

This is a good. You brought up a good point that could potentially refute his argument, invalidating the connection that he tried to make between the two scenarios, and tarnishing what little substance his arguments actually had.​

​

 

[Ansatsuken]

Looking at all scans I conclude that Kishi failed in presenting the situation better through his drawing especially the Raikage and Sasuke scans.

Raikage has landed Sasuke on the ground, it shown in multiple panels. The ground already broke from Liger Bomb impact in three panels but yet we're not seeing Susanoo shield around Sasuke until the 'other' panel where Raikage looked surprise. Sasuke's body already broke the ground even before he pulled out Susanoo. So who's Kishi wanted to fool here? Its not Raikage but us but he failed miserably. We reader can see and interpret his drawing and it speak plot shield.

If Raikage smashed Sasuke more deeper into the ground where we couldnt see what actually happen to Sasuke's body and then we see Susanoo shielding Sasuke, it can be acceptable.

We can make an excuse that Raikage was not aware but we readers are aware on what happen there.

 

[To Whatever]

Sasuke striking speed isn't as fast as Kirin so why do people believe he can wave his hand down at such a speed?

Especially when he couldn't land a clean blow on Madara or Kaguya.

 

[DrProof]

All this wasn't even necessary. Using common sense you'd infer that Itachi didn't react to Kirin, which would be impossible for him, especially when he couldn't even react to rigged ninja tools. Lord have mercy, NDS so trash.

 

[Ansatsuken]

All this wasn't even necessary. Using common sense you'd infer that Itachi didn't react to Kirin, which would be impossible for him, especially when he couldn't even react to rigged ninja tools. Lord have mercy, NDS so trash.

How fast MS user can pull out a Susanoo?