Forbidden Technique
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Man, I don't know how ya'll are able to do these extensive wallie filled debates... Shit is real lmao.
Lee vs Hebi Sasuke
- Thread starter Lord Tywin
- Start date
Remind me why Sasuke would be able to easily track Lee's movements but not his eyes? Lee moves in a very linear fashion as noted by Kimimaro. Sasuke said it was easy to dodge v1 Bee's linear movements and he already was easily capable of reading v1 Ay's movements. Lee is not going to be a special case, he sees Lee with ease.
Direct mutual eye contact isn't a necessity, otherwise it wouldn't make sense for someone with sunglasses like Bee to get caught when Sasuke can't see his eyes.
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Didn't you once claim before the Sharingan seen through the walls of the cave Kabuto was in? If so then its possible Sasuke still saw Bee's eyes even with the shades on and mutual eye contact is necessary.
That's completely irrelevant to what I said. I said he can see chakra behind whatever obstacles. He doesn't have a Byakugan, he doesn't choose what he sees unless there's chakra presence directly behind it in which case he'll see said chakra. It does not concern this scenario at all.
I merely brought it up and asked if that was case here because if it was it would contradict you. Though I disagree with it, I'll tackle that issue another day and stick to this topic. Anyway, not making mutual eye contact for visual genjutsu doesn't exist. Thats exactly what it is. Direct eye to eye contact is necessary. Even if someone has shades on if you get close enough to them you can see their eyes behind him. Thats for normal people, and for someone with highly perceptive eyes like Sharingan, it'd be even easier. Its how Itachi caught Bee, and how Sasuke
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.Yes they need to gaze at each other, but direct mutual eye contact is not a necessity. He just needs to be within his gaze. Here are some scans to back me up;
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]. Finally this one
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. Notice how Sasuke is looking into blank space ahead of him and Cee doesn't make genuine eye contact but gazes at him in the next page
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. He's still caught in Genjutsu because he looked at Sasuke's eyes. As long as you look into his Sharingan you will get caught. All that's needed for Genjutsu is very clearly to look into the Sharingan, direct mutual eye contact is not a necessity and the only time it tends to happen is when the user forces Genjutsu on his opponent.If you make eye contact with an Uchiha, nothing will happen unless they're already deliberately casting Genjutsu at that moment. Example
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and
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. What happened in the scene you linked is that Sasuke was initiating Genjutsu while Cee was distracted by the blast. Genjutsu works by inserting your chakra into the other persons nervous system in their brain to control their senses. Sasuke had to be looking at Cee's eyes while Cee glimpsed at his and even if all he did was glimpse, its still eye contact and it was made. Sasuke wasn't randomly staring into space either, he was prepping the Genjutsu shown with his hand seals, it wasn't ready yet, otherwise Ay would have been caught in the very panel you linked when he was looking at him. When it was ready, he used Jugo's blast as a diversion to land it just as Cee said but when he landed it, there is no doubt he was looking at Cee's eyes when Cee glimpsed at his and if Gaara and company can look into Madara's eyes from
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and tell he was ET then Sasuke could have seen Cee's eyes from the distance he was at, which was even shorter than that to hit his Genjutsu off. My point is that eye contact from both sides must be made bro.
No idea what you're on about when Beans, nor I, ever even mentioned that Genjusu can occur without the user using Genjutsu. Literally no idea why you're even mentioning it nor does it make any sense. I can very clearly see Sasuke's hand seal being used for Genjutsu and I very obviously know that Genjutsu is a jutsu and not a natural state of the Sharingan. If Sasuke is looking at your nose and you are looking at his eyes, he still sees your eyes in his central gaze. That's how Genjusu works based on being able to put people with sun glasses in genjutsu since direct eye contact cannot be established. Furthermore, it makes sense based off of how Ephemeral works. He puts is finger out and once it's looked at you're in Genjutsu. The finger is emitting the Genjutsu just like the Sharingan would be when cast, once either of them is looked at you're caught within the Genjutsu. Already gave you all the scans in which Kishi always refers to it as looking at the Sharingan.
@evani will reply when I have enough time for a long post
Doesn't Lee have filler feats to predict Sasuke's next move before he even does so. He could apply that technique so that he wouldn't even have to look at Sasuke. Besides, with knowledge of his sharingan, I doubt Lee would be making direct eye contact.
Lee's Taijutsu up close at that point was linear considering he just came back from a surgery with his weights on as well in his base state...Look at him in a particular position using moves against Kimmimaro. We saw differences several times in the gates and with no weights in his perfect state:
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Someone referred to as having inhumane movements in the gates definitely doesn't move linearly. Not to mention Taijutsu is what you can refer to as linear not him moving which Icelerate is talking about and not just a hand to hand combat which enabled Kimmi evade his attacks up close. Though we know fully well that it's not even linear in the Gates or with his weights removed seeing those scans.
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No... He's literally doing the technique you suggest is not linear here
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yet Kimimaro states that this is very linear movement here
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when Lee fails to hit? No idea what there's to debate, Lee is very linear just like GAI is. Obito already stated this bro:
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Sharingan easily reads GAI'S movements and if Gai could fight in a completely non-linear fashion by zig-zagging he WOULD. But he can't, Gai's fighting style is completely linear and it's even implied by him "always moving forward". Lee's fighting style won't change because he came back from surgery, if anything he'll simply be slower but not any less linear. Moving behind Lee does not mean it's non-linear movement, we've already seen the Sharingan see through such movements at VOTE1 when Sasuke was still 2 Tomoe
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. He says on the next page that he could clearly anticipate the movements so moving behind somebody does not mean you are non-linear or unorthodox.. Anyways, the Obito case proves my point, and we can go a step further and say Chunnin Exams Lee stated himself that his movements can be read by the Sharingan but that won't suffice without the necessary reaction speed. Sasuke definitely has the reaction speed after evading things like Bee's v1, Ay's v1, reacting to and moving out of C2 explosion from point-blank after it explodes (it's guided), Mifune's Iado, etc. Having "inhumane movements" is the same as 8th Gate Gai, it's being so insanely fast that it doesn't seem human to others. Those scans don't prove that his movement is non-linear at all. As long as you aren't completely unorthodox the Sharingan will still read your movements because it reads the most minute movements of your muscles. Bee's 'non-linear' attacks could still be read by the Sharingan to some extent and that's an entirely different level of unorthodox when compared to Lee.False because you picked out a scan I didn't even put there. How movements weren't linear. Bottom shows the style
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. Lee's attack being linear is in response to ho he delivers them and not the attack itself When Lee uses drunken fist, he still uses kicks and punches ...A punch is a punch but how you deliver them is what makes it different(Predictable or not). So no, Kimmimaro was talking about his moves as a whole which is why Lee states he can't even land an attack on him and Kimmi references his whole style there as being linear. Think about the fact that Lee resorted to something non linear (but the gates where needed)after Kimmi stated so
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False...That was a strategy to lure Obito. Top right and bottom left panel
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and Gai from his blindspot dodging Naruto(because he expected him to attack when Obito absorbs as shown with him saying "Now" in his mind)
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. If not why didn't Obito do the same previously? Why was he left surprised when he first encountered Gai?This becomes pointless in a way when you realize the reason behind your Obito scan was false. Yes Lee's fighting style would be less effective as shown with less movements there and engaging in a hand to hand while in one position unlike his style against Gaara which should be clear that his weights and the fact that he wasn't in the gates prevented much mobility to that style. Moving like this in several shows it is and can be non linear especially with an upgrade from Base
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. Attacking like this shows the style can be non linear as he's more mobile
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. Rather than being in one position like against Kimmi.Lee never stated the Sharingan could read his movements, you got that mixed up. However Sasuke did state that he could not read it (Middle panel)
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and what's worse is the fact that Sasuke actually showed he could react to Lee before in base twice in the same scan
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. However he states he can't read it so that's a different case because of Lee's style.Those scans clearly show it along side the ones I've shown...Unless you want to tell me that is moving in a linear style as well? Bottom
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No he doesn't move in linear style with no weight and in gates.
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blazekev90
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Gai/Lee's approach has always been linear, and rather predicable, however Lee has the ability conceal his strikes in concern situations (drunken fist). Nothing makes this more evident than his fight against Garra. Furthermore, Deidara's ability to fend off Gai's entire team, considering their reputation, without arms, is something I've always took note of. Although we didn't witness their engagement directly, Kish indicated something occurred. Overall, the only advantage Lee has over his oppoent is his speed.
Sasuke's strategy should consist of him creating an opening and casting genjutsu, which as mentioned only requires glance from the caster. Direct eye contact debatable if we were to consider when Itachi placed Naruto in genjutsu during interaction when searching for Sasuke.
Depending on how many gates are active, snakes shield Lee's offense strikes. These snakes has shown feats to intercept and counter Itachi in midst of an attack. In my opinion, that's feat worth mentioning.
Sasuke's strategy should consist of him creating an opening and casting genjutsu, which as mentioned only requires glance from the caster. Direct eye contact debatable if we were to consider when Itachi placed Naruto in genjutsu during interaction when searching for Sasuke.
Depending on how many gates are active, snakes shield Lee's offense strikes. These snakes has shown feats to intercept and counter Itachi in midst of an attack. In my opinion, that's feat worth mentioning.
Unorthodox
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