Lord Tywin
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Lee is war arc
No Manda
Sasuke can't go further than CM1
Sc2
CM2 is unrestricted
Manda is still not allowed
No Manda
Sasuke can't go further than CM1
Sc2
CM2 is unrestricted
Manda is still not allowed
Lee vs Hebi Sasuke
- Thread starter Lord Tywin
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KidGamer65
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Hmm, let's see. Reacting to Lee definitely won't be an issue in CM1, same goes with evading him, however that's pretty much all Sasuke can do. If he engages in CQC Lee would obviously defeat him, he just wouldn't blitz. Not to mention Asa Kujaku one shots. Sasuke's only chance in S2 is to block Lee's Asa Kujaku with CM2's wings, but what if Lee takes him out in close combat to leave him wide open for a shot of Asa Kujaku?
Lee definitely wins S1, and he probably wins S2.
Lee definitely wins S1, and he probably wins S2.
Sasuke wins via Genjutsu in both. Lee can't fight by looking at the floor like Gai can and he can't utilise chakra for a Genjutsu Kai or anything like that. Chidori Nagashi would give him a better chance at catching Lee off guard with Genjutsu. Big snakes block Asa Kujaku if Lee tries it.
Same in S2, except CM2 wings may help in CQC.
Same in S2, except CM2 wings may help in CQC.
BenjerminGaye
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Forbidden Technique
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The pain in gates should break him out of genjutsu. Sasuke can't do anything from a point blank range Asa Kujaku. He's getting hit by hundreds of bone breaking punches before the force of gravity even takes into effect - he shouldn't even be able to summon something, much less be able to move.
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Unorthodox
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^^That's in the case of summonings though. We've seen how Sakura and Chiyo could slap Naruto out of a Sharingan Genjutsu already. Pain definitely breaks him out. Itachi used a Sharingan Genjutsu on Kurenai and she broke out via pain as well.
OT: Lee should take this unless Sasuke can distract him long enough with other summons to use Kirin..Something I completely doubt.
BenjerminGaye
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They put chakra in him. They didn't slap him.
Kurenai is a genjutsu expert (hard to believe ain't it? ) so she should have 0 problems breaking her own genjutsu since itachi used genjutsu reversal.
Red Slayer
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Summonings and humans should be no different at all imo. They're just different creatures but Genjutsu should affect them in the same way unless you have proof suggesting otherwise. Chakra flow disruption is the only way to break Sharingan Genjutsu, pain is not a way to break out of it as per Kurama and it never has been (Chiyo/Sakura used Kai). Proof that Kurenai was put into a Sharingan Genjutsu? The jutsu was just called Genjutsu counter, nothing implies it was Saringan Genjutsu iirc. She's merely breaking her own Genjutsu with pain.
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Where did you get that from? That's your assumption...Plus Sakura even slapped him right after that too to get a hold of himself and in the next panel, a weird flash or something occurs
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. There was no chakra put into him from what we know.That's your assumption.
Read my reply to Apex regarding genjutsu the reversal..Also make sure to read where I prove Genjutsu affects the senses and there zero reasons for me to believe why pain won't work when the Manga has shown this. Shikamaru breaking through Tayuya's with Pain as well. Kurenai breaking through with pain.
No it was a Sharingan Genjutsu:
It was a Sharingan Genjutsu as well and that was how it worked. Pain is a viable way of breaking a Genjutsu...Illusional techniques are usually the same but they affect different senses like Shikamru explained. My analysis:
It works differently clearly for the summoning...Not to mention you are the one that needs to prove to me why they won't work differently when they are both different as a matter of fact. Reason being we've seen the effects on humans being broken easily and we've seen there are it's not the same.
- When Genjutsu is being used on a beast, the sharingan's tomoe appears on the beast eye. However for humans it's different.
- When humans are hit, they can be broken out of it. Look at my scan to BenjaminGaiye...Beast are different in this aspect.
- Read the bold and underlined in this spoiler...It only relates summoning. It relates the bold to the underline and both are beast. Why doesn't it relate humans?
They obviously work differently especially seen with the eye part.
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Forbidden Technique
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Pretty much what Haizaki said. Also, Kurama (nor any summoning ever) didn't break out of the sharingan genjutsu via Kai release either, despite it cannonically working on a human. So I don't see this proving it isn't possible.
Possibly, depending on how fast it's executed. Gai hit Kisame hundreds of times before the force of gravity carried him backwards from the force of his punches. That's pretty instant.
Curse Mark
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Lol 3 pages before the scan you used they used chakra to break him out
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If this is too long, just read the red which proves my point clearly.
You basically proved my point with the DB. Itachi is merely using the same exact Genjutsu back at her. Read again;
"One decrypts a genjutsu that has been applied onto them, and casts back a jutsu with identical effects onto the opponent!! It's a form of illusion reversal, but in order to instantly read through a jutsu and cast it in return, the Sharingan's power is necessary. "
He's decrypting her jutsu via the Sharingan since the Sharingan has the ability to copy jutsu. He then casts back a jutsu with the exact effects aka the same Genjutsu back at her. The Sharingan is only required to read the jutsu (Sharingan sees through ninjutsu) and cas it in return (Sharingan copies jutsu). It does not say the jutsu is cast with the Sharingan eyes, it merely says the Sharingan is necessary in order to achieve those steps. Look at this databook extract;
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yet was put into Genjutsu and she guided him to Nagato's whereabout
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. Second off is Bee
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. He was inside Genjutsu while he was burning from the Katon Shurikens. That's another point. Third point for me is a weak Genjutsu being used on Danzo here
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. Danzo was in Genjutsu for the next 2 pages
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until he was practically dead
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. So JUST LIKE Manda. And yes, I know this one is MS, doesn't change the fact that CM Genjutsu = or ~MS level (can support this if needed). There's Manda which I already posted not instantly leaving Genjutsu from C0, and there's Kurama. That's overwhelming evidence. This is pretty much proof for anything here that I am right and 3T Genjutsu is not being broken out by Lee.To further my point, the only way pain breaks out of Genjutsu is by causing a disturbance in chakra. The amount of disturbance would be based on the amount of pain. Disturbances in the chakra occur even when you are lying [
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] but they are logically way too small to have an effect on Genjutsu obstruction. The disruption of Genjutsu is only possible if you can disrupt your chakra flow to the point where you overcome the Genjutsu's power as per both manga and databook, meaning pain works in the same way and disrupts chakra flow like lying does. Manda only disrupted the Genjutsu several seconds AFTER C0 detonated
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and the DB says this is Sasuke's utmost limit of Genjutsu power [
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]. So you'll need to tell me why pain from Gates will be disrupting Lee more than C0 and immense burns while on the verge of death due to being cooked. Why it's more tan having a hole in your body like Konan. Etc, etc. Not a chance that Gates will work bro.Bold doesn't mean anything at all, unless you can actually prove Genjutsu affecting Bijuu and Summonings in the same way yet humans differently. Wouldn't make any sense, and there's no proof for that. Read my reply showing Sharingan Genjutsu>Pain if you want, I gave pretty conclusive proof that Gates will not work.
Huh?
No...It's a technique. A KKG one for that matter as I underlined. If it was just a reversal then it won't be classified...Sasuke reversed Itachi's Tsukoyomi, was that classified as a Jutsu? No. This case wasn't an ordinary one but a copy. Just like a smilier case of how Sasuke copies a section of Lee's Shadow of the dancing leaf and uses it to perfect his lion combo. Which was greatly emphasized here:
Thanks to the Sharingan's power, Itachi uses a similar technique.
A "similar technique" automatically made known that it's different which is why his Jutsu isn't called the same as Kurenai especially but a Genjutsu from the Sharingan. Not to mention it states it returns it back to the caster with a larger effect than anything else.
The bold...He cast the Jutsu with extra effects or so. Correct? Because the DB made it clear when it stated larger effects...So let's assume he copied it in a similar way to how he copied Shadow dancing leaf. Your points doesn't hold because he copied dancing leaf but then made it into something stronger hence the lion combo as a whole. Hence the reason why Kurenai's Jutsu isn't called the same as Itachi's.
@Underlined, If it wasn't cast by the Sharingan then it makes zero sense to classify it under a Kekkie Genkai technique which the Databook did. Shadow of the dancing leaf was copied but yet is this classified as KKG Technique? Is the name changed? It's only used as a stage for the final technique Lion Combo. Plus the fact that both Itachi and Kurenai have different names.
I looked at the DB and I saw the same with the one I posted as well. "KKK Genkai".
Flawed because every single scenario you've shown involves them going through pain before the Genjutsu is cast on them. If the Genjutsu is cast and they were in Pain then, that's different completely. The Konan was easily so I don't need to explain this one.
- B's scenario makes no sense especially seeing what occurs in the Genjutsu doesn't happen in reality. So you're telling me that B was in a Genjutsu but was still able to react and catch flamed shurikens in reality? How does that make sense? Of course it doesn't because that would mean it occurred before the Genjutsu or what happened occured inside the Genjutsu and not in reality because B won't be in control of himself in the real world. Second point is the fact that there was a hole slightly where B stood and you can also see the flamed shurikens if you look well closely on the ground..You see the hole behind B and also the flamed shuriken
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This scan was after Hachibi broke B out of the Genjutsu. This hole was created by the tentacles which came out of B after Itachi used the Shurikens. So it's safe to say the Genjutsu was used when B tied Itachi up otherwise there would be no need for a hole in the first place as that occurred inside the Genjutsu. But there's a hole after it so we conclude the flamed shurikens were used before the Genjutsu.- Danzo's point as well...The Genjutsu was broken when they were stabbed but was only realized after though. Like I told you, what happens in a Genjutsu doesn't occur in reality hence Sasuke shouldn't be having a mark caused by Danzo if Danzo was in the Genjutsu. Middle left panel shows the stab really happened
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. So no it wasn't still a Genjutsu because what occurs in that world doesn't happen in reality.No you're wrong. The Gates adds more pain to the previous pain. As seen with Lee's muscles getting ripped severely and marks and bleeding being caused newly even though he was in it already. As seen with how it states "his body continues to crumble". As seen with Gai stopping midway because of the pain his has to bear and get used to while being in this Gate. It creates more and more pain added on which is different from pain already being established before. Ribs being broken and stuff like that..When you're already in pain as in the examples you showed, that is you normal state in which you are caught. However when new Pain is being caused such as muscles ripping and things like that being newly brought in, that's an interference affecting you in the Genjutsu. Which is why some cannot hold the gate for long even though they are shown bearing the pain caused previously.
No you comparison is flawed. Summonings are clearly different and you ignored my point:
- When Genjutsu is being used on a beast, the sharingan's tomoe appears on the beast eye. However for humans it's different so you can't
Plus the DB comparison as well showing that it's 2 different things as shown with the glimpse part seen with Manda being compared to the Kyuubi and not humans. I don't need to respond to the Manda question as well when the Manga has already established everything for us. Not to mention your pain and lying point doesn't even sound right when Pain has been established as a viable method of breaking Genjutsu. You can't suggest it's not using summonings as a point when that makes zero sense given the fact that those are beast and are affected differently as seen with their eyes.
She slapping him was uncalled for which should be obvious. Not to mention Apex already made it clear that lying can affect your chakra. Not sure why a touch wouldn't so yes she slapping him or even touching him could be affecting his chakra regardless. Plus the fact that one should consider chakra being used as an interference was something stated by Jiraiya in reference to Genjutsu as a whole and not just the Sahringan. Hence why we've seen what I'm saying works.
KidGamer65
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No.
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That is a second or two after they stabbed each other.
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This is when Danzo realized that he was dying.
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This is when the Genjutsu was actually broken, hence Danzo's vision shifting to show what his actual eye looked at.
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Not sure what you are talking about with the underlined part. Genjutsu doesn't always have to make every aspect of the world false. It only manipulates the target's senses. Sasuke used the Genjutsu to leave everything the same except Danzo perceived his closed Izanagi eye as open.