Language of Zen

[~Yubel~]

hmm lets think well i guess we could for now return to the question Ryoku about where does perception comes from? i have my idea of it but il wait to see if you have any concept or view

​

Perception comes from our senses, our influences is what shapes it, also it is what we are, it is the basis for our actions, our choices, like a template.
That´s my take on it(sry for late reply).
Our perception is our character.

 

[Zenryoku]

In other words perception is one of the effects of 'experience'.

Yep cause you can only percieve something you learn about, if you have no knowledge of something then you cant give a perceptive view of it.​

Perception comes from our senses, our influences is what shapes it, also it is what we are, it is the basis for our actions, our choices, like a template.
That´s my take on it.

So pretty much the same as me then ^_^​

 

[ZK]

Nice, my personal view is that it stems again back to human nature, for within human nature is mans curiosity of things and from there man then iinvestigates through various methods and that builds up information through trial and error for example a younge child who has never seen a scorpion will just think to pick it up or touch but then is stung so from that experience man then gets perception from emotions and error of action or result of action so to say and thus they gain a perception of that thing xD​

That way of thinking seems not to take the pack-mentality of mankind into consideration.
Whereas some children might pick the scorpion up, despite being told not to, you'll notice how many humans, adults and children alike, fear something or have opinions about something based purely on what they've been told.
Indeed, some humans only learn through the trial and error method, but a majority will have alarms going off in their head and remember someone telling them not to pick up scorpions. It's an empathetic fear and/or cautiousness.

 

[Yerrina]

That way of thinking seems not to take the pack-mentality of mankind into consideration.
Whereas some children might pick the scorpion up, despite being told not to, you'll notice how many humans, adults and children alike, fear something or have opinions about something based purely on what they've been told.
Indeed, some humans only learn through the trial and error method, but a majority will have alarms going off in their head and remember someone telling them not to pick up scorpions. It's an empathetic fear and/or cautiousness.

I think he meant it in a sense that the young child has not been influenced by his parents or those around him, yet.

 

[Zenryoku]

That way of thinking seems not to take the pack-mentality of mankind into consideration.
Whereas some children might pick the scorpion up, despite being told not to, you'll notice how many humans, adults and children alike, fear something or have opinions about something based purely on what they've been told.
Indeed, some humans only learn through the trial and error method, but a majority will have alarms going off in their head and remember someone telling them not to pick up scorpions. It's an empathetic fear and/or cautiousness.

I think he meant it in a sense that the young child has not been influenced by his parents or those around him, yet.

Well i more was trying to show it in the concept of a new discovery rather than surrounding experiences as that would be for when we build perceptions but my view is more to the begining of perceptions ​

 

[Gin-San]

This thread is to create and spark a discussion of many things in a philosophical manner to enjoy a nice good discussion before trollers troll so lets start with a simple seed for conversation..

"What do people consider wise choices, thoughts and feelings in every aspect of life? "

​

It depends on the perception of reality as Ryoku said. When we are children, we are constantly bombarded with morals and the difference from right to wrong from our family and society.

This said, we build two things since our childhood: a personal view of the world and society, and the view of society. These two are not always in equilibrium though, as the ones who follow the first more are ones who could become revolutionaries to bring out change, while the ones who follow the second one tend to follow what the crowd says.

The idea of change can be perceived as bad or good depending on the view of society, who may or may not accept it. People though, as individuals, make choices regarding the subject. The one's with a strong personal view would tend to lean toward the change (or no change depending on their observation), while the others one's would not (or would, again it depends).

Now for the question itself. What a person believes to be a wise choice depends on his personal view and the view of society. One tries to do the best to make a choice that would make him/her happy, though will also try to make it acceptable for society. Sometimes he/she will make a choice that may not make him happy, but will result in the society's development, which will in turn grant him with personal satisfaction. Others may choose personal happiness, throwing away his views of society.

It all comes to an equivalent trade. You may sacrifice something in order to get something in return. You sacrifice freedom for security. You sacrifice individuality for peace. You sacrifice your own satisfaction for the sake of society. You sacrifice your position in society for your own satisfaction (which could turn for the best of society later, though you must sacrifice and risk in order to obtain).

One is all and all is one. You belong to society, but without many individuals there wouldn't be a society in the first place. All of them impose laws and morals in order to keep society together, though this may cause discontent in other "ones". This again, falls into what you perceive as good or not, which is completely up to your personal view and view of society.

I consider the perception of reality of individuals to be different in ways which keeps people at opposing sides. So then what truly produces perception?

As I said above, perception is build by yourself and society. Reality is the agreement or common ground of many people's perception. Reality may be an illusion or may not, though we cannot distinguish this as we aren't outside observers. The only thing we can do is continue on living, trusting what we perceive as real (with the agreement or not of others, which depends on your personal view and view of society).

True, it takes a wise person to acknowledge their mistakes.

Now for another good topic Good and Evil what are peoples views on this and that can good exist without evil or can good only exist with evil? ​

The perception of good and evil is solely dependent on how your perception of society and self. What may be evil here, may be perceived as good in other place and viceversa. There may be a much more widely acceptance of good and evil depending on how many accept the ideology of good and evil. If 2/3 of the world accepts an idea as evil, then the 1/3 of the world will be seen as evil. The 1/3 of the world though, still would believe that their teachings are good, and that 2/3 of the world is wrong. It all comes to:

a) Accepting everyone's differences
b) Reaching a common ground
c) Fighting in order to change the view (The victor will determine what is good or not).

Though for your question, in a much universal view, there is no such thing as good and evil, but clash of perceptions. As a human though, I would say that there cannot be good without evil, as there most be a "meter balance" to determine what is acceptable or not for society.

Hmm....I think, why should you not hate someone? Is forgivness important? Why should you not get revenge on that person?

As I said above, it all comes to what your views and ideologies are. Forgiveness may be the accepted thing to do in a culture, though revenge may be for another.

In my personal opinion, there is a level in what you should forgive, and what you should endure. There are things you can just not forgive, but in order to stop the circle of hatred and revenge, one should endure the crisis. Doing so will make you a stronger individual, and in the end, will give you personal satisfaction (depending on your personality though).

Society though, may have a different view of forgiveness and revenge. Revenge by society is called Justice, which is applied to everyone who is part of society. Justice was made in order for people to understand what is good and evil in the perceptive of society, and give punishment to the one's who fall in "evil".

To endure or forgive though, doesn't mean that their evil deeds should be forgiven. You may endure or forgive a person for their faults, but is your "right" and also "obligation" to tell society (policemen) about a person's faults in order for justice to prevail and change to occur. It just means to not get personal revenge, but justice of society.

True but people that dont forgive and are looking for revenge aren´t thinking about being equal to or better, they just want closure and they believe revenge will make them most satisfied.

Also, i have an idea for a topic but it´s a little controversial, what is death?

Death is just the end of life, a normal cycle of time. Death is presented by entropy, or also known as the process of disorder. If you want to know what is after death, then you can view is as how you view it before you were born. There is nothing. This isn't meant to discourage you, but to understand that you only have one life, and should make the best of it.

Well, death is the permanent termination of all biological functions. Other then that, everything else is subjective. So for some, it might be the afterlife, Paradise or Heaven or whatsoever, for others, as Tsuchi said, it's the Reincarnation, and I believe it's just the end. Black! End! You are no more

Agreed.

 

[~Yubel~]

Alright, is there more to say in this topic? Because i have a good one, how big is luck a factor in peoples lives and i mean overall, our circumstances whether good, bad, rich or poor, is it destiny or is it luck? Are they the same thing? Are they not?

 

[Kamishiro]

Alright, is there more to say in this topic? Because i have a good one, how big is luck a factor in peoples lives and i mean overall, our circumstances whether good, bad, rich or poor, is it destiny or is it luck? Are they the same thing? Are they not?

Actually I believe there is no luck , I believe there is a destiny for everything , and that destiny can't be true without our work,if you are lazy and don't do anything useful for your life then your destiny is based on work which will result as a big fail on your life and if you worked hard and studied and believed on the work you are doing you will make the destiny by yourself and you will make a great success on your life.

There isn't anything called luck and people who believe that the luck would bring the happiness for them are lazy people and there destiny is a big fail as they didn't work to get what they want , they simply relaxed forever and waited till someone do their work for them.

 

[~Yubel~]

Actually I believe there is no luck , I believe there is a destiny for everything , and that destiny can't be true without our work,if you are lazy and don't do anything useful for your life then your destiny is based on work which will result as a big fail on your life and if you worked hard and studied and believed on the work you are doing you will make the destiny by yourself and you will make a great success on your life.

There isn't anything called luck and people who believe that the luck would bring the happiness for them are lazy people and there destiny is a big fail as they didn't work to get what they want , they simply relaxed forever and waited till someone do their work for them.

You work for what you get but there are people who don´t work through life and still achieve happiness, success and everything you could want in life while others who work their butt of achieve not so good or sometimes even mediocre results.
One could argue that the more hardworking person deserves it but then there is the belief that life is unfair, why do people achieve differently, people who´ve even worked to achieve success sometimes find themselves not so happy reaching their destination.
What is it that decides who gets more in life, wouldn´t that be luck? What do you think?

 

[Zenryoku]

You work for what you get but there are people who don´t work through life and still achieve happiness, success and everything you could want in life while others who work their butt of achieve not so good or sometimes even mediocre results.
One could argue that the more hardworking person deserves it but then there is the belief that life is unfair, why do people achieve differently, people who´ve even worked to achieve success sometimes find themselves not so happy reaching their destination.
What is it that decides who gets more in life, wouldn´t that be luck? What do you think?

I would call it fate, if one cant change that but then its destiny if it can be changed​

 

[~Yubel~]

I would call it fate, if one cant change that but then its destiny if it can be changed​

What is fate then? Why does things happen as they do? Is there a point to all this?

 

[Zenryoku]

What is fate then? Why does things happen as they do? Is there a point to all this?

Fate are factors that are pre-determined and the main one is death ​

 

[~Yubel~]

Fate are factors that are pre-determined and the main one is death ​

Lol true...
I thought i could spark a discussion but that one was so obvious.xd

 

[Zenryoku]

Lol true...
I thought i could spark a discussion but that one was so obvious.xd

haha well how about ETB's ? are we alone in the universe or are there others out there xD ​

 

[BusinessManTeno]

Somebody once told me and i so believe it

If there is more then one planet with water on it
then more then likely there are more things out there

I always say. If there is something on the ground. there is something in the sky.
I personally dont think it will be as obvious as the green aliens. but maybe something our minds can not comprehend at the moment

 

[Zenryoku]

Somebody once told me and i so believe it

If there is more then one planet with water on it
then more then likely there are more things out there

I always say. If there is something on the ground. there is something in the sky.
I personally dont think it will be as obvious as the green aliens. but maybe something our minds can not comprehend at the moment

Yep and whos to say they arent of physical form but rather etherals or even non-biological​

 

[~Yubel~]

haha well how about ETB's ? are we alone in the universe or are there others out there xD ​

We live in an infinite universe, we´re but one galaxy and there are plenty far bigger ones with stars far bigger then the sun and our planet is small compared to others.
It would be egotistical to say we´re the only ones out there and history has shown that we discover more thing the more we move away from our perception of us being in the center, people used to think the sun was spinning around the earth but it´s really the opposite.
That´s my opinion.

 

[BusinessManTeno]

Yep and whos to say they arent of physical form but rather etherals or even non-biological​

Indeed
Im sure just like humans they have some technology that could very well change the tides of how things are done on earth.....

The human impossibility could be just a thought away in their minds. a 3rd gender... Etc. Crazyy

 

[~Yubel~]

Indeed
Im sure just like humans they have some technology that could very well change the tides of how things are done on earth.....

The human impossibility could be just a thought away in their minds. a 3rd gender... Etc. Crazyy

Then there is the other side of the coin, they could also be stupid, we shouldn´t always expect super intelligent beings when we talk about aliens and i dont believe they are little green ugly creatures with 3 fingers.

 

[Gin-San]

We live in an infinite universe, we´re but one galaxy and there are plenty far bigger ones with stars far bigger then the sun and our planet is small compared to others.
It would be egotistical to say we´re the only ones out there and history has shown that we discover more thing the more we move away from our perception of us being in the center, people used to think the sun was spinning around the earth but it´s really the opposite.
That´s my opinion.

Correction, a finite constantly expanding universe. Infinity is an absolute and also unrealistic. There can't infinity in a finite universe, or finite time. Eternity and infinity are terms used by inside observers, it may not be the same for an outside observer.

I have an open mind, so I am able to understand that life may emerge from anywhere at any given point. There is a theory on how life came to earth, which also combines with the primeval soup, in which life was fabricated by crystals, as they have an important role in the fabrication of RNA. But RNA may not be necessary for other life forms, though as far as we know it is only assumptions and theories.