Konoha didn't kill the Uchiha, Hiruzen's administration did.

salamander uchiha

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Notice that in this post, Tobirama and Hiruzen were the common denominators.

You said that Tobirama spread the false rumors.
Tobirama set up the police force.
Hiruzen's regime was what his the Uchiha's achievements.
Hiruzen's regime didn't let the Uchiha help with Kurama's attack.

Your explanation basically just solidified my point. It was all Tobirama and Hiruzen's regime. Yeah, the villagers may have held disdain for the Uchiha, but they only held such disdain because Tobirama nudged them in that direction with his rumors, and because Hiruzen's administration nudged them into blaming the Uchiha for the attack by not letting the Uchiha help out.

In other words, it wasn't the citizens fault (and I doubt that it was even every citizen, it was probably just the more racist ones to begin with).

Also, you have just proven yourself to be just as evil as Danzou. Retribution is one thing, but what you suggest is not retribution.

"They (the citizens that weren't born at the time) shouldn't (be blamed) but shouldn't they feel the same pain inflicted on others to share their pain?"

Answer: No they shouldn't! They didn't cause the pain, so they shouldn't share it!

Retribution is when you kill or punish solely the perpetrators and not a single soul more!

In other words, Sasuke killing Denki or even the Shimura clan (aside from Danzou), isn't retribution! That is just murder you evil bastard!


If Sasuke has the right to kill the Shimura clan (leaving a sole survivor), then using your logic, that sole survivor has the right to kill Sarada and Sakura.

You didn't read my post at all since you started talking shit, had you read it you wouldn't have said 60% of the shit you did.


retribution

rɛtrɪˈbjuːʃ(ə)n/

noun

punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act.

justice

ˈdʒʌstɪs/

noun

1.

just behaviour or treatment.

Your mistaking justice for retribution. Justice punishes those who're wrong, retribution can punish either or like for like.

And I don't need to read yourBS excuses. I gave you an opinion and it's for you to deal with it I made it clear it's not right but like for like. My words are actually in line with Pains philosophy and not Danzo's that's more your philosophy.

And your flawed response based off of flawed understanding of like for like calling for the killing of Sarada or Sakura is just that. It doesn't meat the like for like standards and goes above and beyond that.

The fall of the uchina came when one of there own attack the village point blank

It started with Tobirama and hostilities were already high prior to the attack.

Anyway I don't see the point of entertaining Chaos's ego so he can feel self righteous much like Danzo, so I'm out.
 
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unknownvillain1254

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You didn't read my post at all since you started talking shit, had you read it you wouldn't have said 60% of the shit you did.


retribution

rɛtrɪˈbjuːʃ(ə)n/

noun

punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act.

justice

ˈdʒʌstɪs/

noun

1.

just behaviour or treatment.

Your mistaking justice for retribution. Justice punishes those who're wrong, retribution can punish either or like for like.

And I don't need to read yourBS excuses. I gave you an opinion and it's for you to deal with it I made it clear it's not right but like for like. My words are actually in line with Pains philosophy and not Danzo's that's more your philosophy.

And your flawed response based off of flawed understanding of like for like calling for the killing of Sarada or Sakura is just that. It doesn't meat the like for like standards and goes above and beyond that.



It started with Tobirama and hostilities were already high prior to the attack.

Anyway I don't see the point of entertaining Chaos's ego so he can feel self righteous much like Danzo, so I'm out.

You don't want to run that because if you do I can justify why uchina should have been killed
 

Exaar

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The overall votes wont go to itachi like it didnt go for fugaku from the part of citizens. The inequality will most likely continue.

Not necessarily, Fugaku never really showed any qualities that Itachi did, Itachi was easily the most qualified hokage material of anyone in the uchiha clan, including his father.

Itachi proved he inherited "the will of fire"
He proved to have the wisdom and thought process of an hokage at the age of 7.
Proved his loyalty
Proved he was never locked into a clan mentality that the rest of his clans men were
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chaos control

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You didn't read my post at all since you started talking shit, had you read it you wouldn't have said 60% of the shit you did.


retribution

rɛtrɪˈbjuːʃ(ə)n/

noun

punishment inflicted on someone as vengeance for a wrong or criminal act.

justice

ˈdʒʌstɪs/

noun

1.

just behaviour or treatment.

Your mistaking justice for retribution. Justice punishes those who're wrong, retribution can punish either or like for like.

And I don't need to read yourBS excuses. I gave you an opinion and it's for you to deal with it I made it clear it's not right but like for like. My words are actually in line with Pains philosophy and not Danzo's that's more your philosophy.

And your flawed response based off of flawed understanding of like for like calling for the killing of Sarada or Sakura is just that. It doesn't meat the like for like standards and goes above and beyond that.



It started with Tobirama and hostilities were already high prior to the attack.

Anyway I don't see the point of entertaining Chaos's ego so he can feel self righteous much like Danzo, so I'm out.

You are the one saying that innocent people should be killed for something they had no involvement in or knowledge about, yet somehow I'm the one being like Danzou?

That's rich lol.
 

JStar King

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The Uchiha got played from the beginning. They're suffered like black people did in the early 1900s. Segregated and discriminated for who they were. Haters will never understand and only sympathize with the oppressors.

I do not support Sasuke killing everyone, but I do agree that the village should've been destroyed. It's the reason why nearly every villain rose up.
 

Exaar

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They're suffered like black people did in the early 1900s. Segregated and discriminated for who they were. Haters will never understand and only sympathize with the oppressors.

Lmao, No they didn't

Uchiha was a well known and praised clan throughout konoha's history, They were known as one of Konoha's noble clans, They had their own district and housing. Pretty much owned and were in charged of the police force, Sure they did get segregated after the kyuubi attack due to suspicions an uchiha cause the attack (which they did).


I do not support Sasuke killing everyone, but I do agree that the village should've been destroyed. It's the reason why nearly every villain rose up.

Nope.

Most of the villans that arose in the village were uchiha and Black zetsu was the main person to blame for this, Not konoha.
 

JStar King

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Lmao, No they didn't

Uchiha was a well known and praised clan throughout konoha's history, They were known as one of Konoha's noble clans, They had their own district and housing. Pretty much owned and were in charged of the police force, Sure they did get segregated after the kyuubi attack due to suspicions an uchiha cause the attack (which they did).




Nope.

Most of the villans that arose in the village were uchiha and Black zetsu was the main person to blame for this, Not konoha.


^^ Like I said, haters only side with the oppressors and blame the victims while forgetting about Hurizen letting Orochimaru and Danzo slide and Tobirama's regime.

You will never understand.
 

Exaar

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^^ Like I said, haters only side with the oppressors and blame the victims while forgetting about Hurizen letting Orochimaru and Danzo slide and Tobirama's regime.

You will never understand.

Please tell me where i'm wrong and hating on the uchiha in that post?.
 
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chaos control

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The Uchiha got played from the beginning. They're suffered like black people did in the early 1900s. Segregated and discriminated for who they were. Haters will never understand and only sympathize with the oppressors.

I do not support Sasuke killing everyone, but I do agree that the village should've been destroyed. It's the reason why nearly every villain rose up.

I agree that the Uchiha got played and that they suffered.

I don't think that the village should be destroyed though.
What would that accomplish aside from creating a bunch of homeless innocent people?

Also, many bad people also came from other villages too. Don't forget that Deidara of the stone defected and became a terrorist bomber. Don't forget that Kumogakure ninjas tried to kidnap several little girls for power (Kushina and Hinata). I can name several other examples.

Basically, destroying Konoha wouldn't get rid of the villains. It would just modify the distribution of villains around the shinobi world, while those who are innocent simply suffer the consequences of something they had no involvement in.
 

unknownvillain1254

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The Uchiha got played from the beginning. They're suffered like black people did in the early 1900s. Segregated and discriminated for who they were. Haters will never understand and only sympathize with the oppressors.

I do not support Sasuke killing everyone, but I do agree that the village should've been destroyed. It's the reason why nearly every villain rose up.

Let's not get stupid now!!!!
 

Brady

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Not necessarily, Fugaku never really showed any qualities that Itachi did, Itachi was easily the most qualified hokage material of anyone in the uchiha clan, including his father.

Itachi proved he inherited "the will of fire"
He proved to have the wisdom and thought process of an hokage at the age of 7.
Proved his loyalty
Proved he was never locked into a clan mentality that the rest of his clans men were
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Fugaku's duty as clan head came to his clan first, not his village, this is just a normal fact that doesn't make Fugaku less Hokage quality. It's the duty of every clan member to put the clan first because there are secrets and a Kekkei Genkai to protect, especially when an entire village is distrusting and jealous of you.

Itachi wasn't fit to be Hokage and we saw why. He believes in absolute authority and nationalism unless it's ethnocentric, if the Uchiha want to be nationalistic and prideful it's bad but if Konoha expects complete and utter loyalty no matter the moral stance, then it's absolutely okay to Itachi.

Itachi was a kid and didn't know any better and cost him everything.
 

Brady

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Lmao, No they didn't

Uchiha was a well known and praised clan throughout konoha's history, They were known as one of Konoha's noble clans, They had their own district and housing. Pretty much owned and were in charged of the police force, Sure they did get segregated after the kyuubi attack due to suspicions an uchiha cause the attack (which they did).




Nope.

Most of the villans that arose in the village were uchiha and Black zetsu was the main person to blame for this, Not konoha.

The Uchiha were respected and feared, but not loved and revered. Black people are admired for their athletic ability, but they themselves are disliked by the majority of the world's races.

The Uchiha had their own district and housing because they were forced to. The Uchiha didn't live together at the beginning of the village and were forced to live together twice. The Police force was merely a cage used to weaken the clan and keep them close for surveillance reasons. What was the point of the Police Force when the ANBU and ROOT served the exact same purpose but had even more authority. It's because the Police Force was a sham.

The Hidden Leaf could have just had the Yamanaka scan the Uchiha's minds but that would be retarded right?
 

Brady

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I agree that the Uchiha got played and that they suffered.

I don't think that the village should be destroyed though.
What would that accomplish aside from creating a bunch of homeless innocent people?

Also, many bad people also came from other villages too. Don't forget that Deidara of the stone defected and became a terrorist bomber. Don't forget that Kumogakure ninjas tried to kidnap several little girls for power (Kushina and Hinata). I can name several other examples.

Basically, destroying Konoha wouldn't get rid of the villains. It would just modify the distribution of villains around the shinobi world, while those who are innocent simply suffer the consequences of something they had no involvement in.

Destroying the shinobi world is a must
 

Prince Badman

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To be honest the massacre was something that Uchiha clan brought it on themselves. They became too arrogant and drunk on their power. See the history of the clan. It is plagued by madness and darkness. Even if Itachi had not killed them all thy would have lost the battle of coup, though more casualties would have occurred on Konoha's part. One could even argue that if it wasn't for Hiruzen being honourable and their thirst for power they could have also killed Itachi and Sasuke and saved a lot of hassle in the coming years.......as inhumane as the massacre was you kill 1 to save 100, 100 to save 1000s and 1000s to save millions. Basically that was the working of the ninja world. Saying today's generation should be punished is being hypocritical and foolish. Sasuke was an international criminal. He attacked the kages. Imagine a person attacking the UN summit or something and then being pardoned for it....sounds ridiculous.
 

startup98

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To be honest the massacre was something that Uchiha clan brought it on themselves. They became too arrogant and drunk on their power. See the history of the clan. It is plagued by madness and darkness. Even if Itachi had not killed them all thy would have lost the battle of coup, though more casualties would have occurred on Konoha's part. One could even argue that if it wasn't for Hiruzen being honourable and their thirst for power they could have also killed Itachi and Sasuke and saved a lot of hassle in the coming years.......as inhumane as the massacre was you kill 1 to save 100, 100 to save 1000s and 1000s to save millions. Basically that was the working of the ninja world. Saying today's generation should be punished is being hypocritical and foolish. Sasuke was an international criminal. He attacked the kages. Imagine a person attacking the UN summit or something and then being pardoned for it....sounds ridiculous.

You are hardcore bro and I love it.
 

chaos control

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Destroying the shinobi world is a must

I can respect that you say that the entire shinobi world should be destroyed. At least you are not being biased (like so many other Uchiha fans) and acting like Konoha is responsible for all the dirt in the world, when really it is the entire shinobi system.

Personally, I'm a fan of the infinite tsukuyomi (if it wasn't for the Zetsu transformations). That would be the perfect way for peace.
 

Brady

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To be honest the massacre was something that Uchiha clan brought it on themselves. They became too arrogant and drunk on their power. See the history of the clan. It is plagued by madness and darkness. Even if Itachi had not killed them all thy would have lost the battle of coup, though more casualties would have occurred on Konoha's part. One could even argue that if it wasn't for Hiruzen being honourable and their thirst for power they could have also killed Itachi and Sasuke and saved a lot of hassle in the coming years.......as inhumane as the massacre was you kill 1 to save 100, 100 to save 1000s and 1000s to save millions. Basically that was the working of the ninja world. Saying today's generation should be punished is being hypocritical and foolish. Sasuke was an international criminal. He attacked the kages. Imagine a person attacking the UN summit or something and then being pardoned for it....sounds ridiculous.

Being angry about forced segregation and reallocation, being given a pseudo-responsibility for the sake of surveillance, being watched from surrounding buildings, being watched by ANBU for almost 70 years, not being allowed into ANBU, your leader being disregarded for the title of Hokage because of his blood, and the spreading of false rumors is all because of them being drunk with power and arrogant?

The history of the clan is not plagued by darkness. Itachi's story about clan members killing each other in order to gain the Mangekyo and Eternal Mangekyo are false because Madara and Izuna were the first to gain the Mangekyo and even then we don't know how they got their eyes considering Itachi got the spiel from Obito who was never told the story of how Madara gained the Mangekyo.

The Izanagi feud is the only problem they had.

Killing innocent people for the sake of avoiding "future problems" is basically saying that we can kill or arrest someone if they even seem like they might cause problems in the near future. If the Hidden Leaf had handled the situation properly, why would any Uchiha children want revenge? If they had scanned the Uchiha's brains via Inoichi Yamanaka, the problems could have been avoided.

By your logic, since the Hidden Leaf caused a Great Ninja War once, we should wipe them all out and destroy their homes because they might pose a future threat. Sasuke was an international criminal by who's standards? Sasuke was deemed a criminal by people who kill and spark wars for money no matter how immoral the job. You're such an idiot.
 

JStar King

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Being angry about forced segregation and reallocation, being given a pseudo-responsibility for the sake of surveillance, being watched from surrounding buildings, being watched by ANBU for almost 70 years, not being allowed into ANBU, your leader being disregarded for the title of Hokage because of his blood, and the spreading of false rumors is all because of them being drunk with power and arrogant?

The history of the clan is not plagued by darkness. Itachi's story about clan members killing each other in order to gain the Mangekyo and Eternal Mangekyo are false because Madara and Izuna were the first to gain the Mangekyo and even then we don't know how they got their eyes considering Itachi got the spiel from Obito who was never told the story of how Madara gained the Mangekyo.

The Izanagi feud is the only problem they had.

Killing innocent people for the sake of avoiding "future problems" is basically saying that we can kill or arrest someone if they even seem like they might cause problems in the near future. If the Hidden Leaf had handled the situation properly, why would any Uchiha children want revenge? If they had scanned the Uchiha's brains via Inoichi Yamanaka, the problems could have been avoided.

By your logic, since the Hidden Leaf caused a Great Ninja War once, we should wipe them all out and destroy their homes because they might pose a future threat. Sasuke was an international criminal by who's standards? Sasuke was deemed a criminal by people who kill and spark wars for money no matter how immoral the job. You're such an idiot.

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Prince Badman

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You are hardcore bro and I love it.

Thanks...when it comes to glorifying someone who did something idiotic/bad i find it hard to tolerate such foolishness.

Being angry about forced segregation and reallocation, being given a pseudo-responsibility for the sake of surveillance, being watched from surrounding buildings, being watched by ANBU for almost 70 years, not being allowed into ANBU, your leader being disregarded for the title of Hokage because of his blood, and the spreading of false rumors is all because of them being drunk with power and arrogant?

The history of the clan is not plagued by darkness. Itachi's story about clan members killing each other in order to gain the Mangekyo and Eternal Mangekyo are false because Madara and Izuna were the first to gain the Mangekyo and even then we don't know how they got their eyes considering Itachi got the spiel from Obito who was never told the story of how Madara gained the Mangekyo.

The Izanagi feud is the only problem they had.

Killing innocent people for the sake of avoiding "future problems" is basically saying that we can kill or arrest someone if they even seem like they might cause problems in the near future. If the Hidden Leaf had handled the situation properly, why would any Uchiha children want revenge? If they had scanned the Uchiha's brains via Inoichi Yamanaka, the problems could have been avoided.

By your logic, since the Hidden Leaf caused a Great Ninja War once, we should wipe them all out and destroy their homes because they might pose a future threat. Sasuke was an international criminal by who's standards? Sasuke was deemed a criminal by people who kill and spark wars for money no matter how immoral the job. You're such an idiot.

The part of segregation and monitoring occurred only after Kyubi attack. Btw Kyubi just happened to have sharingan reflected in its eyes.....no cause for suspicion at all huh....Military police force was a genuine gesture by Tobirama.......it was interpreted in a wrong manner.....Being the police is respectable and Uchiha's abilities were enough to stop miscreants with minimal trouble. Fugaku was rejected so was Orochimaru....blood or favoritism did not affect that decision since Minato was far more renowned and liked by the general populace....he did end the 3rd war almost single handedly. There was also a strong chance for Sakumo Hatake if he had not committed suicide.

Where is the proof of that history being false....if Izanagi feud is true it is most likely that MS story was true rather being false

I am not condoning the massacre. He did entrust the job to Shisui but that plan was foiled by Danzo.....and Shisui was a member of Root. Danzo did push Itachi and Shisui in a corner...but chances of Shisui's plan succeeding were unknown....he didn't know that Fugaku possessed the MS...what Hiruzen failed to check were Danzo's actions and interference. But then again could he have really without avoiding massive bloodshed in an already weakened village. It would have only resulted in a 3 way battle between Hiruzen- Danzo- Uchiha with victor taking the metaphorical spoils. Hiruzen was caught between rock and a hard place. Maybe one alternative was to simply eliminate the leader of coup and expose the Uchiha being traitors to the entire village...what do you think that would have ended up with??????

Don't the countries do that in the real world...what are the intelligence agencies like NSA, CIA are for??? They do keep an eye on suspicious activities and groups that are most like to instigate terrorism/violence. Do you honest think Uchiha would be fine and dandy with having their brains scanned and exposing their hard kept clan secrets.....if it was that easy Hyuga's cage bird seal wouldn't have existed.

Did the entire village instigate war......Konoha ended up victor in all the 3 shinobi wars but did they take the initiative.....no they didn't.....by who's standards you ask? Buddy people like Sasuke are categorized as terrorists in the modern world. Can you honestly say the countries today haven't fought wars??? are you kidding me just look at the history of WW1 and WW2. Some of those countries are leading world powers. Do you honestly think of Sasuke as a revolutionary??? True he had a lousy life. But who actually inflicted it on him.....Indirectly Madara, Obito, Directly Itachi...his on clan his own blood.....hell Obito caused the war in Mist Village which actually lead to civil war and rebellion. Madara attacked the very village he created without caring for the fact that his own clan lived there, hell bent on destroying.....do these look like the actions of sane people????
 

whiteboy2345

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Thanks...when it comes to glorifying someone who did something idiotic/bad i find it hard to tolerate such foolishness.



The part of segregation and monitoring occurred only after Kyubi attack. Btw Kyubi just happened to have sharingan reflected in its eyes.....no cause for suspicion at all huh....Military police force was a genuine gesture by Tobirama.......it was interpreted in a wrong manner.....Being the police is respectable and Uchiha's abilities were enough to stop miscreants with minimal trouble. Fugaku was rejected so was Orochimaru....blood or favoritism did not affect that decision since Minato was far more renowned and liked by the general populace....he did end the 3rd war almost single handedly. There was also a strong chance for Sakumo Hatake if he had not committed suicide.

Where is the proof of that history being false....if Izanagi feud is true it is most likely that MS story was true rather being false

I am not condoning the massacre. He did entrust the job to Shisui but that plan was foiled by Danzo.....and Shisui was a member of Root. Danzo did push Itachi and Shisui in a corner...but chances of Shisui's plan succeeding were unknown....he didn't know that Fugaku possessed the MS...what Hiruzen failed to check were Danzo's actions and interference. But then again could he have really without avoiding massive bloodshed in an already weakened village. It would have only resulted in a 3 way battle between Hiruzen- Danzo- Uchiha with victor taking the metaphorical spoils. Hiruzen was caught between rock and a hard place. Maybe one alternative was to simply eliminate the leader of coup and expose the Uchiha being traitors to the entire village...what do you think that would have ended up with??????

Don't the countries do that in the real world...what are the intelligence agencies like NSA, CIA are for??? They do keep an eye on suspicious activities and groups that are most like to instigate terrorism/violence. Do you honest think Uchiha would be fine and dandy with having their brains scanned and exposing their hard kept clan secrets.....if it was that easy Hyuga's cage bird seal wouldn't have existed.

Did the entire village instigate war......Konoha ended up victor in all the 3 shinobi wars but did they take the initiative.....no they didn't.....by who's standards you ask? Buddy people like Sasuke are categorized as terrorists in the modern world. Can you honestly say the countries today haven't fought wars??? are you kidding me just look at the history of WW1 and WW2. Some of those countries are leading world powers. Do you honestly think of Sasuke as a revolutionary??? True he had a lousy life. But who actually inflicted it on him.....Indirectly Madara, Obito, Directly Itachi...his on clan his own blood.....hell Obito caused the war in Mist Village which actually lead to civil war and rebellion. Madara attacked the very village he created without caring for the fact that his own clan lived there, hell bent on destroying.....do these look like the actions of sane people????

Let me pick this apart for you.

The segregation occurred twice. Tobirama force the entire clan to move near the prison, despite not all of them even being Police Officers. This was meant to keep Uchiha's domesticated and watched. The Nine-Tails had the Sharingan in it's eyes for a about a few seconds before it disappeared, so you're still wrong. Why was Minato liked more than Fugaku, exactly what did Fugaku lack? He lacked Senju blood and connections.

The Izanagi feud is true, the MS situation is incredibly lacking in credibility considering Obito and Madara didn't have any conversations about how Madara got the MS and we don't know when Black Zetsu started paying attention to Madara specifically. Itachi either made up the story or was fed nonsense by Obito.

Fugaku does not canonically have the MS. The plan was to use KA on the entire clan during a meeting, but this plan was foiled so Danzo could have Sharingan eyes for himself. The solution to the problem was not outing the clan as traitors, because this would easily come full circle if the clan were to expose the Leaf's government for discrimination. The Hidden Leaf being the authorities doesn't then deem them morally correct.

The Uchiha's eyes can read and show memories, the Uchiha could have easily proven their innocence while at the same time, stopping the Leaf from knowing any clan secrets.

Pain explained to Naruto why he was taking revenge, and Ohnoki talks about the wars fought by the major villages. Out of mere selfishness and greed the nations fight time and time again, and according to Nagato, the Leaf sparked a Great Ninja War which isn't unbelievable considering it's exponential growth and need to sustain said growth. The Great Ninja Villages are not people who can judge in the slightest, they'll kill anyone and ruin anyone's life for CASH. Real life countries at least act out of their interests but don't take mercenary jobs for the sake of money.

Sasuke is a psychologically damaged child who was forced to watch his parents die over 200,000 times.

Obito lost the only person he was actually close to and fought in a war, he saw her impaled and watched her body be drenched in blood and felt her cold and limp body in his hands. You don't come out of this shit the same person.

Madara fought in war his whole life and lost family member after family member, and watched his brother bleed out and die.

Itachi went to a battle field and saw corpses and was brainwashed by his village into subservience.

None of these Uchiha's are indicative of true Uchiha nature. This is what happens when you mix psychological damage and the power of the Sharingan.
 
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