Konoha didn't kill the Uchiha, Hiruzen's administration did.

[chaos control]

Uchiha fans have said a lot of stuff like "Sasuke should have destroyed Konoha" or "Sasuke should never have gone back to Konoha since they killed his family" or "The NV can never have justice as long as Konoha still stands".

Some people even blame Naruto and modern day (Boruto era) Konoha for the Uchiha tragedy and say that modern day Konoha should be punished or destroyed (despite the fact that nobody who had any involvement in the Uchiha's tragedy is even alive anymore).


How hypocritical of these fans.

For starters, let me address the easiest point. You say that there can't be justice as long as Konoha still stands huh? Okay, well in that case why just Konoha? Why not the entire ninja world? Didn't the ninjas of Kumogakure try to kidnap several little girls for the sake of power? Didn't Kirigakure force children to slaughter each other as an exam, and didn't they persecute KKG shinobi? Wasn't it also Kiri that slaughtered Kimmimaro's clan? Didn't just about every village treat jinchuuriki like crap?

Why just Konoha? Sounds to me like an ethnocentric case of "if it's not about the Uchiha, it's not my problem".

That's one gripe out of the way.


Moving on to the next gripe, how is it that Naruto and modern day Konoha should be blamed or punished for the Uchiha massacre when nobody in modern day Konoha had anything to do with said massacre?

It wasn't even really Konoha that was responsible for the massacre. It was specifically Hiruzen's cabinet. When a country's government is being corrupt, what should you do?

Here's the answer: You overthrow the officials of that government and instate new officials with better morals! You don't blame and destroy the whole freaking country!


Let's talk about some American history for a minute. Richard Nixon and his administration were responsible for the Watergate scandal. This involved several illegal activities. Nixon even tried to cover it up.

Having said this, tell me something Uchiha fans:
Do you blame America for this scandal or do you blame Nixon? For those of you that live in America, why haven't you deserted the country? Why haven't you American Uchiha fans tried to destroy the USA (or maybe you have, and are secretly Al quaeda members)?

Well anyway, do you know what was done about this? I'll tell you what was done. The American people tried to impeach Nixon, and ultimately Nixon resigned! They didn't try to destroy the country.


This next one will probably hit even harder. Are there any German fans out there (who actually live in Germany)? If so, tell me this:

Why did you racist bastards have to try and genocide the Jews? Oh wait a second, what's that? You say that you had nothing to do with that? You say you weren't even born for that?

Well then tell me this: Do you blame your whole country for the atrocity that was the Holocaust, or do you blame Adolf Hitler and his supporters? Should you yourself be killed? Why haven't you left or tried to destroy Germany?!

Verify this for me Uchiha fans:
Let's say I know this guy named Bob. 20 years ago, Bob robbed a bank and killed a few people. 10 years later, Bob was tracked down and killed by one of the family members the victims. Now tell me what you think Uchiha fans:

On January 1st, 2018, Bob's granddaughter was born. Should this​ baby be killed? By your logic, I guess she should.

On to the last gripe:

Some Uchiha fans actually want Naruto to focus on the Uchiha clan in the modern era, and focus on raising public awareness about the tragedy.

Well answer me this:

If Naruto is spending all of his time focused on a clan that has been dead for around 20 years now, then what is to be done about the impending alien invasions, the Kara, the mujina bandits and the little girls trying to blow up the village?

Well, in the end, I suppose the world's survival doesn't matter right? I mean, the apocalypse has to come sometime. You guys agree right? What is really important, is that long dead clans get the public outrage that they deserve (even if their actual murderers were already killed in revenge)! That is way more important than stopping aliens from devastating the planet.

Well, I've ranted enough.

Discuss.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Nothing much to discuss Konoha's citizens had a dislike for the Uchiha being the police and all. As Orochimaru pointed out to Tobirama when he revived them. It was orchestrated by Senju policy so they're equally guilty as are those who would've supported said policy.

Secondly if we go by Itachi Shinden the village and it's citizens had a dislike and mistrust for the Uchiha clan in general. Ultimately it was Hiruzen's regime that carried out the deed but it takes the village to make a clan feel isolated not just a regime.

I for one wouldn't support Sasuke killing the entire village, but I would for him to wipe out the Anbu their families and clansmen along with Hiruzen's regime and their clans men. Afyer all the backbone of a ruler are his supporters (clansmen). It's not right in the slightest but it would be retribution nonetheless.

 

[JStar King]

But what or who was the catalyst for the Uchiha Massacre, including their rebellion?

 

[Styles]

Pretty sure almost every Uchiha fan said Sasuke should have just killed the elders and the one's involved in causing the massacre to happen.

 

[Solarmoth]

Sasuke shouldve demolished Konoha and killed the entire elder fanbase and demolished every kid so that no one stands before uchiha name with disgust. Uchiha name is a proud name. "It'll gouge out your eye with a spoon with a single gaze" or so the legend goes....

 

[Mori Jin]

But what or who was the catalyst for the Uchiha Massacre, including their rebellion?

Black Zetsu

 

[chaos control]

But what or who was the catalyst for the Uchiha Massacre, including their rebellion?

Hiruzen and Danzou were the catalyst. They were the ones that blamed the Uchiha for Kurama's attack. They planned it, approved it, etc. .

It's like I said. Hiruzen's administration was to blame. Not Konoha.

 

[Sof6p]

Hiruzen and Danzou were the catalyst. They were the ones that blamed the Uchiha for Kurama's attack. They planned it, approved it, etc. .

It's like I said. Hiruzen's administration was to blame. Not Konoha.

Your post ignores the build up of tensions, which pre date Hiruzen's regime and reached a peak pre massacre.

Nothing much to discuss Konoha's citizens had a dislike for the Uchiha being the police and all. As Orochimaru pointed out to Tobirama when he revived them. It was orchestrated by Senju policy so they're equally guilty as are those who would've supported said policy.

Secondly if we go by Itachi Shinden the village and it's citizens had a dislike and mistrust for the Uchiha clan in general. Ultimately it was Hiruzen's regime that carried out the deed but it takes the village to make a clan feel isolated not just a regime.

I for one wouldn't support Sasuke killing the entire village, but I would for him to wipe out the Anbu their families and clansmen along with Hiruzen's regime and their clans men. Afyer all the backbone of a ruler are his supporters (clansmen). It's not right in the slightest but it would be retribution nonetheless.

^This post best describes the situation early, mid and the time pre massacre.

 

[chaos control]

Nothing much to discuss Konoha's citizens had a dislike for the Uchiha being the police and all. As Orochimaru pointed out to Tobirama when he revived them. It was orchestrated by Senju policy so they're equally guilty as are those who would've supported said policy.

Secondly if we go by Itachi Shinden the village and it's citizens had a dislike and mistrust for the Uchiha clan in general. Ultimately it was Hiruzen's regime that carried out the deed but it takes the village to make a clan feel isolated not just a regime.

I for one wouldn't support Sasuke killing the entire village, but I would for him to wipe out the Anbu their families and clansmen along with Hiruzen's regime and their clans men. After all the backbone of a ruler are his supporters (clansmen). It's not right in the slightest but it would be retribution nonetheless.

Disliking someone as the police is still different from outright discriminating against and oppressing them. Only Hiruzen's administration did that (and Tobirama to a lesser extent) Can you tell me why people didn't like the Uchiha police force? I don't have access to Itachi shinden, so I can't say much about that, but I may have heard about some police brutality going on. I'm not sure. Anyway, not liking someone is not the same as genocide or murder.

Therefore even if what you say is true, and the Konoha citizens didn't like the Uchiha, that doesn't make the citizens guilty of genocide. You can like or dislike whoever you want.

Also, did the citizens actually know why the Uchiha wasn't trusted by the elders, or did they just dislike the Uchiha because the elders disliked them? If it's the latter, then that just makes Hiruzen's administration even more guilty since the elders led the people astray.

You also didn't answer the question of why just Konoha.

Also, what about citizens who weren't born at the time? Why should they be blamed?

 

[Solarmoth]

Disliking someone as the police is still different from outright discriminating against and oppressing them. Only Hiruzen's administration did that (and Tobirama to a lesser extent) Can you tell me why people didn't like the Uchiha police force? I don't have access to Itachi shinden, so I can't say much about that, but I may have heard about some police brutality going on. I'm not sure. Anyway, not liking someone is not the same as genocide or murder.

Therefore even if what you say is true, and the Konoha citizens didn't like the Uchiha, that doesn't make the citizens guilty of genocide. You can like or dislike whoever you want.

Also, did the citizens actually know why the Uchiha wasn't trusted by the elders, or did they just dislike the Uchiha because the elders disliked them? If it's the latter, then that just makes Hiruzen's administration even more guilty since the elders led the people astray.

You also didn't answer the question of why just Konoha.

Also, what about citizens who weren't born at the time? Why should they be blamed?

Konoha citizens were jealous of uchiha.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Disliking someone as the police is still different from outright discriminating against and oppressing them. Only Hiruzen's administration did that (and Tobirama to a lesser extent) Can you tell me why people didn't like the Uchiha police force? I don't have access to Itachi shinden, so I can't say much about that, but I may have heard about some police brutality going on. I'm not sure. Anyway, not liking someone is not the same as genocide or murder.

The mistrust for the Uchiha started with Tobirama spreading false rumours about them so he could weaken there power and influence over the village. Secondly he made them the police force to they could be isolated and controlled and dealt with if he deemed it necessary. This also allowed for and added to his earlier attempts to produce an anti Uchiha sentiment. He pretty much admits to doing these things, he undermined the Uchiha at all costs and started the the other clans and village folk down this path. He even undermined Hashirama's attempts to make peace with the Uchiha clan. He set out a strategy using two steps so people would hate and not trust the Uchiha clan cand neither support them or their position.

Therefore even if what you say is true, and the Konoha citizens didn't like the Uchiha, that doesn't make the citizens guilty of genocide. You can like or dislike whoever you want.

Also, did the citizens actually know why the Uchiha wasn't trusted by the elders, or did they just dislike the Uchiha because the elders disliked them? If it's the latter, then that just makes Hiruzen's administration even more guilty since the elders led the people astray.

The Shinden novels go into detail the people started turning against the Uchiha and there animosity reached a critical point. The achievements of the Uchiha during the 3rd war were hidden from the people that was Hiruzen's regime policy. They didn't want people to trust the Uchiha clan or admire them because it would undermine Tobirama's efforts (my reading of why). The Senju descendants also had a dislke for the Uchiha because of their lineage and would try to undermine them (Itachi's teachers with Itachi). They weren't allowed to help out during the 9 tails attack because of the elders which led to people blaming them and insulting them further increasing suspicion against them. It took the combined efforts of both the villagers and Hiruzen's regime to create the situation like I've said somebody doesn't feel isolated purely because of the government.

You also didn't answer the question of why just Konoha.

Why because they founded Konoha and it was Konoha which betrayed them.

Also, what about citizens who weren't born at the time? Why should they be blamed?

They shouldn't but shouldn't they feel the same pain inflicted on others to share their pain.

Now back to what I actually said, all those who chose loyalty to Tobirama(the Senju and others) and his policy, and their descendants. The ANBU(those who were spying on the Uchiha) and their families, the elders and their backbone (their clans) who would've supported them if it came to killing the Uchiha should share the same fate. I'll repeat it doesn't make it right in the slightest but it's fair retribution.

Why should 1 be allowed to plan and support or enable the massacre of another and his family including the innocent children? He should share the same pain whether his children are just as innocent. It's not right but it's retribution, retibution isn't always right.

I would've been a little less pissed off at Sasuke if he wiped out th Shimura clan, Sarutobi clan, Senju clan(descendants) and anybody who would've supported the elders with their plan or against the Uchiha. I guess he could leave 1 survivor from each clan like himself so people would think twice before doing something genocidal ever again.

Ps. I repeat it's not right but is retibution always right?

I'm not going to repeat myself so that's all your getting from me.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Uchiha were unlucky their opponent was Tobirama, his actions on battlefield and actions as Hokage really destroyed them.

 

[Melanin]

Hurizen is responsible for what happen to the uchiha clan and his administration is as well so technically the villages leadership is responsible (in turn the village) but the village as a whole (the civilians or anyone ignorant to the these particular events) shouldn't be held responsible.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Uchiha were unlucky their opponent was Tobirama, his actions on battlefield and actions as Hokage really destroyed them.

Their betrayal of Madara Sama for the want of peace led to their downfall. Even the databook entry implies that them joining konoha weakened them. They would've reached new heights and ever greater power had they remained the clan that they were.

 

[Tauren Chieftain]

Their betrayal of Madara Sama for the want of peace led to their downfall. Even the databook entry implies that them joining konoha weakened them. They would've reached new heights and ever greater power had they remained the clan that they were.

Well they chose different road , they chose peace . Tobirama was responsible for their downfall because without Tobirama they would have peace , political influence, normal life without hate from others .

 

[chaos control]

The mistrust for the Uchiha started with Tobirama spreading false rumours about them so he could weaken there power and influence over the village. Secondly he made them the police force to they could be isolated and controlled and dealt with if he deemed it necessary. This also allowed for and added to his earlier attempts to produce an anti Uchiha sentiment. He pretty much admits to doing these things, he undermined the Uchiha at all costs and started the the other clans and village folk down this path. He even undermined Hashirama's attempts to make peace with the Uchiha clan. He set out a strategy using two steps so people would hate and not trust the Uchiha clan cand neither support them or their position.



The Shinden novels go into detail the people started turning against the Uchiha and there animosity reached a critical point. The achievements of the Uchiha during the 3rd war were hidden from the people that was Hiruzen's regime policy. They didn't want people to trust the Uchiha clan or admire them because it would undermine Tobirama's efforts (my reading of why). The Senju descendants also had a dislke for the Uchiha because of their lineage and would try to undermine them (Itachi's teachers with Itachi). They weren't allowed to help out during the 9 tails attack because of the elders which led to people blaming them and insulting them further increasing suspicion against them. It took the combined efforts of both the villagers and Hiruzen's regime to create the situation like I've said somebody doesn't feel isolated purely because of the government.




They shouldn't but shouldn't they feel the same pain inflicted on others to share their pain.





I would've been a little less pissed off at Sasuke if he wiped out th Shimura clan, Sarutobi clan, Senju clan(descendants) and anybody who would've supported the elders with their plan or against the Uchiha. I guess he could leave 1 survivor from each clan like himself so people would think twice before doing something genocidal ever again.

.

Notice that in this post, Tobirama and Hiruzen were the common denominators.

You said that Tobirama spread the false rumors.
Tobirama set up the police force.
Hiruzen's regime was what his the Uchiha's achievements.
Hiruzen's regime didn't let the Uchiha help with Kurama's attack.

Your explanation basically just solidified my point. It was all Tobirama and Hiruzen's regime. Yeah, the villagers may have held disdain for the Uchiha, but they only held such disdain because Tobirama nudged them in that direction with his rumors, and because Hiruzen's administration nudged them into blaming the Uchiha for the attack by not letting the Uchiha help out.

In other words, it wasn't the citizens fault (and I doubt that it was even every citizen, it was probably just the more racist ones to begin with).

Also, you have just proven yourself to be just as evil as Danzou. Retribution is one thing, but what you suggest is not retribution.

"They (the citizens that weren't born at the time) shouldn't (be blamed) but shouldn't they feel the same pain inflicted on others to share their pain?"

Answer: No they shouldn't! They didn't cause the pain, so they shouldn't share it!

Retribution is when you kill or punish solely the perpetrators and not a single soul more!

In other words, Sasuke killing Denki or even the Shimura clan (aside from Danzou), isn't retribution! That is just murder you evil bastard!


If Sasuke has the right to kill the Shimura clan (leaving a sole survivor), then using your logic, that sole survivor has the right to kill Sarada and Sakura.

 

[AllKnowingShinobi]

First off konoha hates the uchiha becuz they where probably the most racist clan, beside the hyuga clan, who always been or self stateing shit like "OOO THE HYUGA/UCHIHA CLAN IS THE STRONGEST CLAN" in thier own village, to me these two clans probably had one of the most cockest/douchey characters in the NV like neji to lee or sasuke/itachi to oro,

only the strongest(senju,uchiha,hyuga,nara) in a early goverment prolly ran the show. if one of those top rank clan were to, lets say the uchiha who probably killed alot of the other clans members and the other clans might still be alittle salty about that(ex.second hokage and the death of his brother), and they had to agree to live next to the uchihas and to make it better the uchiha are appointed as head authorize inforcers.

this prolly didnt help the uchihas rep. they got rid of uchiha marada(who is the biggest **** probably kill the majority of the other clan members as a good gesture , but the uchihas sins cant we washed away that easy .

the village hated the uchiha they were the nazis. hiruzen time was mostly war that old fart prolly had PTSD and hitting stage 4 of dementia as well as the other elders. but for real the elders feared the uchiha more than the village, they were so scaried they thought a battle between konoha and the uchiha would cause the next ninja war.

the uchiha was dealt with a losing hand for to many generations since the declaration of independence(start of konoha). Overpowerd force like the tailed beast know how shitty weaker humans can be.

 

[Exaar]

If the uchiha had a little patience, They could've gotten itachi is as hokage, Hiruzen respected him and knew him trustworthy and loyal, Danzo wouldn't dare *beep* with him and he proved loyalty to the other elders by acting as a spy, with itachi as hokage he could help mend the Uchiha/Konoha divide.

but for what ever reason they chose war as their only option, Which was pretty much the nail in the coffin for them.

 

[Solarmoth]

If the uchiha had a little patience, They could've gotten itachi is as hokage, Hiruzen respected him and knew him trustworthy and loyal, Danzo wouldn't dare fuck with him and he proved loyalty to the other elders by acting as a spy, with itachi as hokage he could help mend the Uchiha/Konoha divide.

but for what ever reason they chose war as their only option, Which was pretty much the nail in the coffin for them.

The overall votes wont go to itachi like it didnt go for fugaku from the part of citizens. The inequality will most likely continue.

 

[unknownvillain1254]

The mistrust for the Uchiha started with Tobirama spreading false rumours about them so he could weaken there power and influence over the village. Secondly he made them the police force to they could be isolated and controlled and dealt with if he deemed it necessary. This also allowed for and added to his earlier attempts to produce an anti Uchiha sentiment. He pretty much admits to doing these things, he undermined the Uchiha at all costs and started the the other clans and village folk down this path. He even undermined Hashirama's attempts to make peace with the Uchiha clan. He set out a strategy using two steps so people would hate and not trust the Uchiha clan cand neither support them or their position.



The Shinden novels go into detail the people started turning against the Uchiha and there animosity reached a critical point. The achievements of the Uchiha during the 3rd war were hidden from the people that was Hiruzen's regime policy. They didn't want people to trust the Uchiha clan or admire them because it would undermine Tobirama's efforts (my reading of why). The Senju descendants also had a dislke for the Uchiha because of their lineage and would try to undermine them (Itachi's teachers with Itachi). They weren't allowed to help out during the 9 tails attack because of the elders which led to people blaming them and insulting them further increasing suspicion against them. It took the combined efforts of both the villagers and Hiruzen's regime to create the situation like I've said somebody doesn't feel isolated purely because of the government.



Why because they founded Konoha and it was Konoha which betrayed them.



They shouldn't but shouldn't they feel the same pain inflicted on others to share their pain.

Now back to what I actually said, all those who chose loyalty to Tobirama(the Senju and others) and his policy, and their descendants. The ANBU(those who were spying on the Uchiha) and their families, the elders and their backbone (their clans) who would've supported them if it came to killing the Uchiha should share the same fate. I'll repeat it doesn't make it right in the slightest but it's fair retribution.

Why should 1 be allowed to plan and support or enable the massacre of another and his family including the innocent children? He should share the same pain whether his children are just as innocent. It's not right but it's retribution, retibution isn't always right.

I would've been a little less pissed off at Sasuke if he wiped out th Shimura clan, Sarutobi clan, Senju clan(descendants) and anybody who would've supported the elders with their plan or against the Uchiha. I guess he could leave 1 survivor from each clan like himself so people would think twice before doing something genocidal ever again.

Ps. I repeat it's not right but is retibution always right?

I'm not going to repeat myself so that's all your getting from me.

The fall of the uchina came when one of there own attack the village point blank