Konan vs Sakura
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Please don't come @ me with weak ass shit like this, when you can't understand that:
A. Sakura's punches generate enough force to cause AoE physicality without the need to make contact. That generated force possesses the same initial power that her connected assaults do.
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B. You just admitted Sakura "rips one piece of paper," yet have failed to realize through being a dumbass, or just being a... Yeah, dumbass, that Sakura is capable of CES that hits everything in range.
So lets put A, and B together shall we Beans?
A = Sakura's punches can cause AoE damage, with the same force as her ordinary punches.
B = You admitting Sakura can rip a "piece" of Konan's paper. However, your stupid ass overlooked the fact that this is Adult Sakura, and Adult Sakura is capable CES that hits her in range surroundings without making contact.
But yes, maybe I should leave this to the quote, unquote "pros." Especially a pro that requires someone to actually link evidence that paper can be ripped/crumpled by a fist. :lol. No clue why KG is even wasting time on your goofy ass tbr, it's clear Sakura murders Konan.
"That generated force possesses the same initial power that her connected assaults do."
Your entire premise hinges on this one assumption which is unproven, also the notion that a shockwave will rip apart thousands of tiny individual papers without Sakura making contact is just plain stupid. goodbye
How else do you think that shockwave was created? Through the same force she's always exerted, or better yet, if we use our heads here, its a feat that was beyond EOS Sakura, because she was never shown to do it, so Adult Sakura > EOS Sakura in strength. So those shockwaves are created through a stronger Sakura. Adult Sakura > EOS Sakura >>> Konan's paper. When you're to stupid to understand that speed & power is what causes the rip/crumble of paper, and deny that Adult Sakura's CES feat wouldn't do that exact thing.
Lord have mercy bud. You need help. Bad.
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BenjerminGaye
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Bro. Remember how high Sakura jumped, to ground pound in the war arc? Sakura won't just idly stand by while Konan flies, and throws her garbage ass arsenal @ her. Sakura will pressure Konan, it's not like flying shinobi are invincible, and can't be touched at high ranges, because tons of ninjas have jumped incredible distances within the air.
I mean, if that were really the case, she'd have shat on Obito.
BenjerminGaye
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Bro. Remember how konan spread her pieces of paper to cover the entirety of Amegakure while looking for jman? Cuz i do.
Remember how she manually split a fckin lake in half? I do. That's how insane her ranged control is. Nothing from sakura forces her to fight at close range since the effectiveness of her techs remain the same at all distances.
And don't bring obito into this, dude had to rewrite reality for at least 5 minutes to survive and the only time he himself actually damaged her is when she couldn't maintain paper angel.
Lets put it in perspective:
sakura has to hit a floating head:
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Lord Tywin
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Katsuya shits on Konan. Sakura could just sit back and let Katsuya uses her acid. Or
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KidGamer65
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Proof beat me to the punch, though the fact you needed someone to post evidence in the first place is just hilarious.
To say that Sakura can't hurt paper is the same thing as saying she can't damage it. If you want to argue she won't feel pain then you can go ahead as that's irrelevant to what I stated in my post. You don't need to feel pain or be "hurt" to be damaged.
And no, I said she can try to disperse herself to evade the punches. Not that she'll disperse as soon as she gets hit. Literally nothing in this Manga has ever shown or hinted that Konan is invulnerable to physical attacks. So each hit results in her taking damage, thus she ends up spending chakra to fix herself.
No, this is obviously not what I was saying as I never mentioned an acid puddle, (that doesn't make sense nor is it even possible since the acid will just burn the ground instead of residing there) but since you've decided to actually provide a specific imagery of how Konan would disperse herself we'll just go with this scenario. Konan splits into a bunch (Lol @ thousands, don't just throw numbers around with literally no basis whatsoever. A simple glance at Konan fully unfolding herself is enough to tell you that her paper doesn't even reach "hundreds" let alone "thousands") of papers to evade and either:
1. Sakura blows her into Katsuyu's Acid, which will be launched. Not turned into some puddle on the ground.
2. Sakura simply evades and blows any paper that tries to swarm her away, or has Katsuyu spray it's Acid and outlasts her.
Bold1 is hilarious. The paper being hit is what makes up Konan's body. If that is destroyed she's dead and I hope you aren't arguing that she can regenerate her whole body from a single paper. The airplane example obviously makes no sense because she is alive to multiply it. :lol
Bold2 is also hilarious. I hope you are arguing that she survives because of evasion and not because she can get sprayed with acid and die. Being able to reform limbs is irrelevant if your entire body is turned to a pile of biowaste nor would any user of Byakugo or any similar regeneration technique be able to do the same thing. She couldn't even evade a Toad Oil Bullet from Jiraiya from 6-10 meters away. She's not going to counter a punch into launched acid at a closer range unless she already unfolds herself like you said above, but then scenario 1 or 2 happen and Konan still loses.
Where did I say they aren't doing damage? I said they aren't doing lasting damage. Konan had to get within point blank range of Obito and have him start sucking in her attacks for her to end up doing that much damage. Sakura doesn't even need to make physical contact with Konan's body to deal damage to her and the force from her punch blows her back a few meters. This is not a valid comparison nor am I even going to think about taking the bold seriously until you show me how detonating a bunch of chakra bombs translates to having more chakra than Sakura.
It's laughable that you are even sitting here arguing that an explosion from in front of Sakura that has been blown away by the force of her punch is enough of a distraction for her not to notice a paper shuriken with zero speed feats approaching behind her till it cuts her head off. Sakura blows said clone away and then dodges said paper shuriken. An explosion that won't even hit her isn't going to create a distraction that draws her attention for any significant period of time let alone long enough to get decapitated.
If you reply again do me a favor and stop wanking Konan. :lol She doesn't come close to winning let alone "stomping low diff". We are talking about the same Konan that Base Jiraiya easily subdued right? :lol Her only method of attacks are projectiles that can either be evaded or blown away with ease and even outright tanked as long as Sakura protects her head.
Lmao you two really need to stop. Yes, Konan can fight from long ranges and can't be hit assuming her opponent lets her get so far out of range to begin with or decides not to give chase. Not happening against someone faster than her in every way by feats. More range also means attacks are easier to avoid, and no, her attacks are obviously not as good at all distances. A significant portion of her attacks are projectiles launched from her body. More distance=Easier to evade. More distance=Harder to target=Harder to hit.
The only thing that'll be the same is her paper bombs, but again, they originate where Konan is. Farther she fights, the easier it is to see and evade or tank since paper bombs aren't doing anything serious if Sakura defends herself.
And no, Konan needed prep to do that to Obito. Otherwise he would've stomped her regardless of this false "fight from all ranges with 100% effectiveness" thing you are trying to argue here.
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KidGamer65
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Konan's feats without the exaggeration in this thread by Beans and BenjerminGaye:
A ranged airplane that can unfold into a bunch of paper.
And now that I read these scans you can clearly see Konan's arm mixed in with the swarm of paper. So no, that airplane obviously didn't turn into dozens of paper. That's Konan's entire body turned into paper. An attack like this is easily evaded or countered with a punch or Katsuyu's Acid. So we can forget about that "multiply back after being turned to ash" argument.
Ranged barrage of paper that Base Jiraiya dodged.
That and they are small sharp objects. They'll cut Sakura at best, which is healed from without effort. Oh yeah, and the second part of this scan shows Jiraiya shitting on her with a ranged oil attack and his hair.
Ranged Shuriken.
Easily tanked.
S/N: All these attacks originate from her body. So I don't want to hear that "she can attack from all ranges with perfect effectiveness". Cause that's false. 100% false.
Mixing explosive tags with her body or her clone's body. Would work if Sakura was within point blank range like Obito was and if she didn't have the ability to heal herself and reattach limbs w/ Katsuyu's presence. Not like she's losing any limbs here anyway. Literally the only worthwhile offense in her arsenal.
Featless Chakram
Dodged and blown away. The distraction mentioned is too rudimentary and barely even a distraction. Once Sakura blows the explosion away there is nothing left to distract her, so why would her attention be so drawn away that she fails to keep an eye on what's around or behind her?
-She knows it was a clone.
-It exploded over 2 meters away from her.
-She knows Konan is still alive.
-The chakram hasn't shown any outstanding speed feats to let you say it can cross whatever distance is in question and decapitate Sakura before she can react.
This argument is akin to me saying that Itachi uses an exploding crow clone and throws a Fuhma Shuriken at Hashirama's head while the explosion occurs 2-5 meters away from him yet ends up so distracted that he not only takes a hit, but loses his head.
Btw I can also argue that Konan's paper bomb assault including what happened before Paper Person of God was also apart of her prep as Paper Bombs are a Ninja Tool and are not created naturally by Konan's ability as her ability is simply to turn her body into paper.
A ranged airplane that can unfold into a bunch of paper.
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And now that I read these scans you can clearly see Konan's arm mixed in with the swarm of paper. So no, that airplane obviously didn't turn into dozens of paper. That's Konan's entire body turned into paper. An attack like this is easily evaded or countered with a punch or Katsuyu's Acid. So we can forget about that "multiply back after being turned to ash" argument.
Ranged barrage of paper that Base Jiraiya dodged.
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That and they are small sharp objects. They'll cut Sakura at best, which is healed from without effort. Oh yeah, and the second part of this scan shows Jiraiya shitting on her with a ranged oil attack and his hair.
Ranged Shuriken.
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Easily tanked.
S/N: All these attacks originate from her body. So I don't want to hear that "she can attack from all ranges with perfect effectiveness". Cause that's false. 100% false.
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Mixing explosive tags with her body or her clone's body. Would work if Sakura was within point blank range like Obito was and if she didn't have the ability to heal herself and reattach limbs w/ Katsuyu's presence. Not like she's losing any limbs here anyway. Literally the only worthwhile offense in her arsenal.
Featless Chakram
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Dodged and blown away. The distraction mentioned is too rudimentary and barely even a distraction. Once Sakura blows the explosion away there is nothing left to distract her, so why would her attention be so drawn away that she fails to keep an eye on what's around or behind her?
-She knows it was a clone.
-It exploded over 2 meters away from her.
-She knows Konan is still alive.
-The chakram hasn't shown any outstanding speed feats to let you say it can cross whatever distance is in question and decapitate Sakura before she can react.
This argument is akin to me saying that Itachi uses an exploding crow clone and throws a Fuhma Shuriken at Hashirama's head while the explosion occurs 2-5 meters away from him yet ends up so distracted that he not only takes a hit, but loses his head.
Btw I can also argue that Konan's paper bomb assault including what happened before Paper Person of God was also apart of her prep as Paper Bombs are a Ninja Tool and are not created naturally by Konan's ability as her ability is simply to turn her body into paper.
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I will make this quick because I have a test to study for.
-A video of a guy punching a hole in a newspaper is not evidence that Sakura's punch will cause all the papers in Konan's body to rip or tear. Not even close to it. That newspaper was hanging from a line, while Konan's paper is levitating in air so it will offer no resistance. Secondly, Konan's individual papers are a
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. She can't punch a hole through something that is smaller than her fist.-I never said the bold. I said Sakura's punch won't hurt Konan. Not that Sakura herself can't hurt paper, because she can with chakra scalpel. And I never said anything about pain.
-Yes, you did say that. Look at post #4 on this thread. You quoted me saying "he force of the punch would disperse her body into thousands of papers", bolded it, and then said "bold is likely." So you yourself admit that the force of Sakura's punch is likely to only disperse Konan's papers which can be reformed.
-I never said Konan is invulnerable to physical attacks. Stop putting words in my mouth please. I used the Edo Tensei comparison to show what is the likely outcome if Konan gets hit by a punch from Sakura.
Kidgamer, you do realize Konan can multiply papers right? She is not limited to the number of papers that she can split her body into. Here she
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in at most a couple seconds' time. How do you think she created 600 billion paper bombs? So yes, thousands. So with your strategy:-Sakura manages to blow a few papers into Katsuyu's acid which is currently in midair after being launched. Let's be real here, this is a very inefficient way to kill Konan. Sakura would have to repeat this over and over again the whole time while Konan continues to multiply her paper. You also didn't address the fact that Sakura's punch is narrow and focused and will not affect a lot of papers spread over a large area. Only a tiny amount of the total paper will be affected.
No, obviously I am not arguing that Konan tanks the acid, but as long as she is alive she can continue to multiply her papers.
-You said they aren't doing lasting damage which is obviously wrong if paper tags can blow off a limb, which Sakura can't regenerate from so that is a factually incorrect statement.
-I said she POSSIBLY could have more chakra than Sakura. My point being Konan isn't going to be easily outlasted. Detonating chakra bombs clearly takes some amount of chakra seeing how it exhausted Konan. Maybe detonating one doesn't take much chakra but detonating six hundred billion of them obviously does. Do I need to explain how big that number is? Lol
-Let me elaborate on the strategy a little bit then. Right as Sakura punches the clone a few scattered paper bombs surrounding her (which Konan planted earlier) explode creating noise and smoke which obscures her hearing and vision enough for her not to notice the shuriken. And Konan can disguise the paper bombs as rocks or grass or whatever the environment is since she can camouflage papers to look like moving water (vs Obito) or a tree (Konoha invasion). Maybe I will scrap the shuriken argument completely, since a single paper bomb placed on the back of her head is enough to kill Sakura. It's not hard for Konan to sneak one up on her.
(Now I'm mad because I wasted almost an hour writing this. Reminds me why I stopped debating here in the first place, this is a huge time suck.)
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TheEvilOne
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Wouldn't the shockwaves of Sakura's punch scatter Konan's paper body? Or simply destroy it? Katsuyu's acid is also GG. Bad match-up for Konan.
KidGamer65
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Who said that one punch rips apart the entirety of Konan's body? Anyway the differences between the scenarios is irrelevant. Konan's body is larger and thicker than that newspaper so why would no resistance cause her to take no damage? The fact that she is holding herself in place alone offers some kind of resistance. Tsunade punched Madara in mid air yet he got a hole put in his chest.
She has no reason to attack Konan's individual papers. Konan will have to reform herself at some point and that is when Sakura hits her.
Then I was wrong as the video shows nor should I even have agreed with you to begin with. Konan's body turns to paper when she kneads the chakra to make it turn to paper and it unfolds when she has it unfold. If she's in a corporeal form and gets attacked she'll need to actually make the conscious decision to unfold if she can in time.
So basically she gets damaged. That is exactly what happened when Tsunade punched Madara. :lol @ putting words in your mouth. Is that not what you are saying? Sakura hits Konan and Konan automatically disperses into paper. That's being invulnerable to physical attacks unless I'm missing something here.
No, she can't as shown in my second post. Her using chakra to create more paper doesn't equate to her being able to turn a single piece of paper into thousands nor does her sprouting wings prove that her paper reaches into the thousands when she unfolds.
What she did with over 10 years of preparation is irrelevant. She clearly stated she "gathered" those bombs, not that she created them with her own paper technique. Since when did her technique let her create paper bombs? The only time she has ever used paper bombs with her own paper is when she prepared to take down Obito. Anyway We've seen her unfold completely on panel and
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is not close to hundreds let alone thousands. And I didn't address it because it doesn't matter. When Konan unfolds she keeps herself in a bunch of papers because that's the only way she can efficiently attack. If she spreads out into tiny papers like she did to scout Amegakure then she can't provide any useful offense leaving Sakura no reason to try and strike her. If she's bunched up like in the scan I posted in the paragraph above or in her corporeal form she gets blown into the incoming acid and dies.
This was addressed. She can't multiply anything. She uses chakra to make more. If the majority of the paper that makes up her body is destroyed she's dead.
Except they can't in any possible scenario so no, it is a factually correct statement.
Not possibly. She doesn't. You can explain how big 600 billion is all you want, without a real measure of how much chakra it takes to detonate them it'll be nothing but conjecture. I can use this same argument to argue she has more chakra than people like Sasuke and Naruto because "600 billion is a big number" and it'd make just as much sense as this argument here.
Yes, she will be easily outlasted. Sakura has more than enough chakra as a Teen to add on top of whatever Obito had left to open portals to each of Kaguya's dimensions, the same jutsu that not even Kaguya can spam carelessly. That's a real measure. Tsunade healed an entire village with her chakra, and Sakura has just as much of said chakra available to her.
Why would Sakura let herself be put in a position where she's surrounded by paper bombs? If they were planted there earlier Sakura would simply get away from them instead of staying surrounded just to take out a paper clone.
From a ranged Shuriken to Konan putting a bomb on Sakura's head? Konan stomps and this is apparently how? What? So what, is Sakura going to be sitting there twiddling her thumbs while Konan approaches from god knows where and puts a bomb on the back of her head? It's not going to be hard for Konan to sneak up on someone faster than her (and Katsuyu) and land a bomb when she has no good distractions to use?
Oh yeah, and you're gonna have to prove the whole camouflage thing. With preparation via unknown means she was able to disguise those bombs as the Amegakure lake. Nothing in that sentence implies she can do that in battle or even do it to match any environment she wants. That tree was a paper tree, not a paper tree that looked like a real tree. Hell, it was a tree with a paper entrance.
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The inside was just a hollowed out tree.
Sakura wastes her. This much should be obvious if we're really going to start arguing about how Konan can or cannot put a bomb on Sakura's head without her noticing.
KidGamer65
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Agreed. Sakura stomps low diff without the need to outlast.
And yes, 10 years of prep. Or you can just call it several. Inconsequential.
She could not have started prepping it before Pein's Konoha invasion because she was on Obito's side until Nagato met Naruto and changed his mind. The actual prep time was probably closer to 2 weeks.
KidGamer65
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"I wasn't just sitting idly by your side all that time"
She's been plotting on him for years. She was on Obito's side but clearly never fully trusted him otherwise she wouldn't be researching how to defeat him. So the prep was far longer than 2 weeks and even if it was the point I was trying to make really doesn't change.