Kishimoto ruined Madara

[TrollingSage]

Nope he did have EMS. However if you reread and look at those panels you'll notice Madara is clearly alone and outnumbered meaning he had to be facing off against Hashirama, Tobirama and all the Senju in those panels gathered around him when he's lying on his back after fighting against them for an entire day without rest.

And if you re-read the chapter Kishi was talking about her outmatched the Uchihas were by the senjus. And he proved this by having 10 senjus gang up on Madara? Get real Madara fanboys. If Madara was alone it means his team mates were wiped. This was a war not personal grudge match.

 

[Umari Senju]

I disregarded your opinion once you said "the best villains have a tragic past". No, that's called relying on the same archetypes if you know anything about literature. All kishi has to do is say a character lost their parents or lost a brother and that continues the same cycle. That does not give DEPTH to a character's personality or add anything of IMPORTANCE. It just is there to continue a trend so kishimoto can give them all the same motivation instead of elaborating on them individually. Kishimoto sacrifices the uniqueness and individuality of villains and semi antagonists all because he doesn't want to give them their own reasons/ motivations/moral views to become evil. Some people just don't agree with keeping peace with love, they feel only power will scare their enemies into being peaceful. Some people don't agree with the peaceful ninja system that creates certain favoritism towards certain groups of individuals. Some people prefer a dictatorial ninja system, some others believe peace create weakness and paves the way for terrorists to exploit the times they live in. Some others feel like it does not befit their heritage to make peace with the others, and they must remain separate from their enemies.

All of those reasons I mentioned are from amazing books, comics, and other stories where the villains ACTUAL MORAL VIEWS are elaborated on. They aren't simply evil because they LOST a friend or family member, those are only used by them as proof of their moral views being right. There moral views and reason are based on the everyday actions and mindset of the people they live with. Some see the peace as being a front for imperialism and their country must remain strong. See? Naruto does not have realistic villains and they are NOT better written. They all use one archetype which is loss of someone they love. Lame, I want to see what they actually think of the world, what their political and moral views about PEACE with enemies.

^GAWD YES THIS!^

I tried to make this very samwe point in another thread awhile back and got flamed like crazy because I pointed out that the villians in the Narutoverse all have the same boring history that we always have to watch/read in flashbacks that take forever to tell the same story every other villian before them told. I tried to bring up the point of Orochimaru being evil as his evilness is unique. Sure his parents were killed when he was young, but that, in no way had any bearing on his actions as he grew up. He lusted for power through the aqcuisition of every jutsu he could get his hands on which is why he is one of my favorite villians. He seeks power for the sake of power, not because he endured the tragedy of loosing his family.

Every other Naruto villian do what they do because of someone they lost. And it's a stale formula Kishi has used throughout the series. Now in Kishi's defense I guess this is because he has such an enormous collection of heroes and villians that he may not want to make each one as elaborate and unique as the next, but as I stated in the other thread. This duplication of their pasts deminishes the overall value of the villian at hand.

Plus rep dude/dudette I full heatedly agree with you

 

[EPICMenma]

Answer is : Plot no Jutsu! Plot no jutsu solo Naruto Universe even Juubi and S06P.
Plot No Jutsu's ability is "Ruin" Element.
That's explain a lot.

 

[SilverfoxUchiha]

I did not forget that he lost all of his siblings. That's why I mentioned that they played by the same rules. There were loses on both sides of the fight.

There were losses on both sides of the fight, however Izunas last words to his brother when he had recieved the fatal injury from Tobirama were "Not to trust the Senju."

Those last words were said at the time Madara was contemplating listening to Hashirama, however we later see when Madara returns with the Eternal Magekyo Sharingan that Izuna had entrusted his eyes with the legacy of protecting the Uchiha clan (although something about this doesnt sound right - i'm sure we were previously told that Madara obtained Izunas Sharingan after his OWN eyes had started to fail him??? hmmmmm..... Madaras eyes seemed pretty fine in that battle in my opinion)

Back to the point, if that was then the case, the last thing Madara was told by Izuna was to not trust the Senju, and to preserve the Uchiha. Madara to me seems broken at this point. and the difference between him and Hashi is that he is an Uchiha: and out of Love the cycle of hatred started: reflecting in his eyes.

EDIT: And lets not get it twisted. I rate Hashirama 100%, however i can see both sides on this story. All madara needed to do was trust Hashi, but his pain was too great, leading to resentment amd hatred.

In telling Hashi to either kill jimself or his brother, he was saying that his pain was to great. at that point he is too fargone to hear reason anymore. and you can see the man is in pain.

 

[SilverfoxUchiha]

well.... theres still hope that orochimaru might be a villain through and through Lol

 

[SIR HERDERP PRESIDERP SDO]

Madara had apotheosis :snick:

 

[RasenKirin]

And if you re-read the chapter Kishi was talking about her outmatched the Uchihas were by the senjus. And he proved this by having 10 senjus gang up on Madara? Get real Madara fanboys. If Madara was alone it means his team mates were wiped. This was a war not personal grudge match.

Not a Madara fanboy but it's obvious to me only Hashirama outmatches Madara and not any of the other Senju.