Kisame vs Ay

[Worm]

Except Itachi establishes in Part 1 that it's Kisame's carelessness that would yield him uneccessary injuries against multiple opponents. If he had the intelligence to put distance between him and his opponent to gain a considerable advantage, that statement wouldn't have been needed.

Regardless, Kisame has never put distance between him and his opponent. He'll rely on Samehada's senses to deduce that the Raikage has a lot of chakra and would likely opt to absorb it like he did against V2 Bee.



Please, in all likelihood, Kisame relies on Samehada's chakra received from his opponents to preserve his own life, not some lousy attempt to stay at a safe range. Kisame only retreated against 2 Jin, a Mokuton user, and a Gated user, but Raikage was never an opponent that Kisame implied to have ever felt to retreat on his own.

Fair enough. Not very knowledgable about Pissame's way of thinking. Guess he's an idiot then.

 

[NarutoX28]

Fair enough. Not very knowledgable about Pissame's way of thinking. Guess he's an idiot then.

He's not an idiot, but he's arrogant and tends to rely on Samehada's abilities to render his opponent useless. It's unfortunate that he has no knowledge on Ei's Shunshin speed here. If he did, I'd agree with your assessment.

 

[DrProof]

Depends on the starting range. If it were say Short Range, Ayy would win. Mid Range, can be debated. Long Range, Kisame baby shakes.

 

[Zexion~]

How does Ay win anything? Please tell me?

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Except Itachi establishes in Part 1 that it's Kisame's carelessness that would yield him uneccessary injuries against multiple opponents. If he had the intelligence to put distance between him and his opponent to gain a considerable advantage, that statement wouldn't have been needed.

Regardless, Kisame has never put distance between him and his opponent. He'll rely on Samehada's senses to deduce that the Raikage has a lot of chakra and would likely opt to absorb it like he did against V2 Bee.

The dude's observant as all Hell, breaking down both the danger level a raiton pencil possessed, all while charging[

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-

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]. And then later hard countering Bee's attack, while preoccupied with both a similar raiton projectile and another man [

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-

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]. And before Bee even made it to him, Kisame realized what he was doing. So yeah, keep on suggesting that Kisame isn't intelligent or doesn't have the wits to him to plan ahead. It's not like he didn't put a

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in the Information-Scroll he gathered for Obito, or wasn't chosen above Zetsu clones for an infiltration.

If Kisame was nothing but brute strength with a tiny intellect, he wouldn't of done/been nominated for 'em.

@Bold; Gai vs Kisame round three ring a bell? Even without Samehada, Kisame is a monster in close combat. Yet, remembering the Gates and Gai's gained strength, Kisame uses a different tactic and becomes a long ranged fighter. So yeah, no.

Please, in all likelihood, Kisame relies on Samehada's chakra received from his opponents to preserve his own life, not some lousy attempt to stay at a safe range. Kisame only retreated against 2 Jin, a Mokuton user, and a Gated user, but Raikage was never an opponent that Kisame implied to have ever felt to retreat on his own.

Retreating=/=Changing tactics.

As mentioned above, Kisame recognized the danger Gai presented, changed his usual fighting style. Kisame has information, first hand experience witnessing the White Zetsu Copy get killed by Ay, along with the hype around the Shinobi world about Ay being the fastest out there, not Bee. Indicating that, if Kisame was having trouble with V2 Bee's speed, Ay's a whole 'nother story.

OT: Kisame benefits more from manga intel then Ay does. The battle likely goes how Kisame vs Bee did, with Kisame fusing and replying on the Water Dome for victory. Though if Ay goes V2 quicker/before Kisame can fuse, he likely loses.

 

[Thesaurus]

OT: Kisame benefits more from manga intel then Ay does. The battle likely goes how Kisame vs Bee did, with Kisame fusing and replying on the Water Dome for victory. Though if Ay goes V2 quicker/before Kisame can fuse, he likely loses.

What the heck. You call yourself a Kisame fan? How does Ay beat Kisame if he forms 5 Suiton Bunshins? As soon as Ay gets close to the bunshins Samehada absorbs his entire shroud in 1 go and he goes bye bye via another clone putting him in Water dome.

 

[Zexion~]

Bruh he heals from everything Ay's got.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

What the heck. You call yourself a Kisame fan? How does Ay beat Kisame if he forms 5 Suiton Bunshins? As soon as Ay gets close to the bunshins Samehada absorbs his entire shroud in 1 go and he goes bye bye via another clone putting him in Water dome.

Suiton bunshin require a pre-existing water source, Kisame isn't spitting out one or them quickly enough for this to be viable. Five Kisame's would only provoke Ay and spur him to use V2 anyhow, which he could likely outmaneuver them any begin to pick them off from behind. Even if he does lose a shroud in the process, he has Bijuu level reserves. It won't be the end of the world as long as he manages to take them out.

Bruh he heals from everything Ay's got.

If Samehada isn't taken away in a lariat, if Ay doesn't aim to snap his neck like he did to White Zetsu.

 

[Zexion~]

Suiton bunshin require a pre-existing water source, Kisame isn't spitting out one or them quickly enough for this to be viable. Five Kisame's would only provoke Ay and spur him to use V2 anyhow, which he could likely outmaneuver them any begin to pick them off from behind. Even if he does lose a shroud in the process, he has Bijuu level reserves. It won't be the end of the world as long as he manages to take them out.

If Samehada isn't taken away in a lariat, if Ay doesn't aim to snap his neck like he did to White Zetsu.

Taken away in a lariat....When it survived a 8 Tails V2 LARIAT, lmfao not happening. If you mean directly at it thats retarded the shroud gets absorbed.

Questionable if he could heal from that tbh.

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

Taken away in a lariat....When it survived a 8 Tails V2 LARIAT, lmfao not happening. If you mean directly at it thats retarded the shroud gets absorbed.

Questionable if he could heal from that tbh.

I don't see Kisame healing from his neck being snapped. That's going beyond what we've seen possible from Samehada. And, Bee's V2 Lariat knocked both backwards. I don't see why a quicker lariat couldn't do the same. It's honestly reaching to say Kisame would be able to track V2 Ay, the dude could pull off what he did to Sasuke, moving to attack from behind him instead.

 

[Zexion~]

I don't see Kisame healing from his neck being snapped. That's going beyond what we've seen possible from Samehada. And, Bee's V2 Lariat knocked both backwards. I don't see why a quicker lariat couldn't do the same. It's honestly reaching to say Kisame would be able to track V2 Ay, the dude could pull off what he did to Sasuke, moving to attack from behind him instead.

How? It healed bone damage with his ribs being broken .-.

Anyways he doesn't have to react, with him and Samehada working together to make sure its not going anywhere he takes a few hits then fuses and ends Ay's life :lol

 

[Thesaurus]

Suiton bunshin require a pre-existing water source, Kisame isn't spitting out one or them quickly enough for this to be viable. Five Kisame's would only provoke Ay and spur him to use V2 anyhow, which he could likely outmaneuver them any begin to pick them off from behind. Even if he does lose a shroud in the process, he has Bijuu level reserves. It won't be the end of the world as long as he manages to take them out.

If Samehada isn't taken away in a lariat, if Ay doesn't aim to snap his neck like he did to White Zetsu.

Was it ever made a necessity for the jutsu? I don't recall that.
And if Ay is in v1 then he doesn't need Suiton Bunshins, his Samehad can absorb the shroud before he lands a hit in v1, and we all know Kisame is far stronger physically. Only v2 can land a hit on Bee, but he'd still lose the entire shroud and be quite low on chakra, whereas Kisame would just heal using that chakra he absorbed. And no, he doesn't have Biju level reserves lmao. He can create a Biju level reserve for a few seconds because he has the capacity to unleash all his chakra at once. But unlike Bijuus he can't maintain that chakra level, he can only uphold it for like 10-15 seconds max.

Don't see how it'd be taken away, not to mention v2 Ay is FAR weaker than v2 Bee power wise. He'd never actually damage him extensively unless he were to land his Liger Bomb (but then again Kisame would just soften the earth beneath him and laugh it off).

 

[TheAncientCenturion]

How? It healed bone damage with his ribs being broken .-.

Anyways he doesn't have to react, with him and Samehada working together to make sure its not going anywhere he takes a few hits then fuses and ends Ay's life :lol

Samehada, pending where it's pointed, won't be able to get Ay or all of Ay's chakra off before he can attack if he moves to Kisame's rear. Similar to this,

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, if Ay's got a large enough distance between him and Samehada, he'd be fine. Even if his chakra begins to be sapped, he's still got monster strength.

I don't think it was ever implied they were broken,

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, it looks like all that is being done

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At best,t here could be lung damage or something that's also being healed. Isn't snapping a neck completely severing vertebre? Not sure how Samehada will put that all back together, it isn't the Yin Seal.

Was it ever made a necessity for the jutsu? I don't recall that.
And if Ay is in v1 then he doesn't need Suiton Bunshins, his Samehad can absorb the shroud before he lands a hit in v1, and we all know Kisame is far stronger physically. Only v2 can land a hit on Bee, but he'd still lose the entire shroud and be quite low on chakra, whereas Kisame would just heal using that chakra he absorbed. And no, he doesn't have Biju level reserves lmao. He can create a Biju level reserve for a few seconds because he has the capacity to unleash all his chakra at once. But unlike Bijuus he can't maintain that chakra level, he can only uphold it for like 10-15 seconds max.

Not sure where that's said, the bold. But it's a shunshin, it's a brief burst of movement. Of course it'll be only for a handful of seconds.

The DB states it as such.

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Water is an ingredient. The rest is pretty much covered in the above.

 

[Gold Lightning]

Ay can't decapitate people alone, that's why he needs killer bee. Also, 50m is a long distance if we're talking about Kage level shinobis who all have decent reflexes.

That distance becomes short if the one being speedblitzed doesn't have good reflexes.

So Ay's lateral chop can't decapitate someone? He sliced his own arm off and sliced the 8 tails horn off, yet he can't decapitate people. Are you really an Ay fan?

 

[Zexion~]

Samehada, pending where it's pointed, won't be able to get Ay or all of Ay's chakra off before he can attack if he moves to Kisame's rear. Similar to this,

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, if Ay's got a large enough distance between him and Samehada, he'd be fine. Even if his chakra begins to be sapped, he's still got monster strength.

I don't think it was ever implied they were broken,

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, it looks like all that is being done

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At best,t here could be lung damage or something that's also being healed. Isn't snapping a neck completely severing vertebre? Not sure how Samehada will put that all back together, it isn't the Yin Seal.
Not sure where that's said, the bold. But it's a shunshin, it's a brief burst of movement. Of course it'll be only for a handful of seconds.

The DB states it as such.

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Water is an ingredient. The rest is pretty much covered in the above.

Samehada had already begun expanding by then,

And idk bruh, they look ****ed up to me.

 

[-immortal-]

yeah with this distance kisame wins,

he can form a large scale suiton to raise more distance whilst attacking ay, and buy him enough time to merge with samehada and form the waterdome,
once Ay gets caught in the dome, he is done for

Wait..... if ay has v2 raiton armor... And he gets inside waterdome... Isn't kisame getting electrocudd :|

 

[DrProof]

How does Ay win anything? Please tell me?

Short Range, V2 Ayy is much faster than Kisame. A simple Lariat would snap/decapitate Kisame's neck.

Mid Range, just depends on who does what first.

Long Range, Kisame's AOE is too much for Ayy to dodge. Water Dome would drown his ass.

 

[Zexion~]

Girl problems drain me of wanting to argue anything :lol

 

[NarutoX28]

Wait..... if ay has v2 raiton armor... And he gets inside waterdome... Isn't kisame getting electrocudd :|

That's something I honestly considered though I think it'd be more interesting to debate how Ei could potentially take the win before Kisame resorts to using his best techniques.

 

[Transcendence]

Short Range, V2 Ayy is much faster than Kisame. A simple Lariat would snap/decapitate Kisame's neck.

Mid Range, just depends on who does what first.

Long Range, Kisame's AOE is too much for Ayy to dodge. Water Dome would drown his ass.

Decapitation has only been shown with a double Lariat; with Bee. That isn't a factor here. Not to mention there is still slight panel time for Ay to actually activate his V2 then amplify his Shunshin when using the Raiton cloak.

Mid Range is even worse for him since Kisame can simply start fusing with Samehada, tank the damage from Ay's "Blitz" and heal off the damage.

Long range we're in agreement, but that's obvious. This match-up shouldn't be this debated though. I'm going to repost my argument from another thread of the same match-up.

Blitzing, while a factor here is not giving Ay any chance at winning at all. Getting into

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took what? A page?

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Kisame is already fusing and regenerating from the Lariat from a V2 Bee. You know, the same Bee who overpowered V2 Ay's Lariat in Base, and Kisame tanked and regenerated via fusing from the much stronger Lariat. After that happens, any chance Ay had to win is a complete wash. Blitzing again will only continue to spell the inevitable for him. Kisame regenerates, but getting too close means he can absorb Ay's chakra, nullifying his ability to re-use the Raiton cloak. Which effectively neuters Ay's entire fighting style. And a weakened Ay will easily fall prey to Water Dome, where Kisame is faster and can end him in there.