Kisame Hoshigaki may actually be Stronger than Itachi Uchiha

[Negative Knight]

Itachi Uchiha vs Kisame Hoshigaki​

This is a thread concerning if Kisame is actually weaker than Itachi as a rule or if there is something more to who would win in this battle. Kisame has shown many counters to Itachi's various moveset and thanks to a discussion with Chatte concerning Genjutsu and chakra flow i've come to a conclusion that Kisame may actually have a 50/50 chance against one of the most powerful Uchihas (Yes i know only 3 are alive xd)


Kisame's Moveset and Abilities in Combat

Spoiler

Kisame Hoshigaki's Abilities ​

Large Scale Water Techniques
Kisame was almost unparalled in magnitude when it came to Water Release techniques except by a select few including Tobirama. He was shown at many instances to summon large bodies of water using his chakra alone because of his massive chakra reserves. This allowed him to excute Water Release techniques that would overwhelm the opponent due to the sheer magnitude of his techniques and alter the entire battlefield, warping the very terrain in his favour as his Samehada Fusion Mode has been shown to move extremely fast whilst submerged in water.

Ability to suck Chakra out of the opponent
Kisame also showed a unique trait of sucking out chakra out of his opponents using his sword Samehada. He shared a symbiotic relationship with his sword, giving it chakra in exchange for sucking out chakra out his opponent on contact and giving it to him allowing him to become theoretically infinitely strong and match his strength to his opponent even if they have higher chakra reserves.

Highly Skilled in Kenjutsu
Kisame before defecting from his village became known as one of the seven Ninja Swords men. This was an elite group of swordsmen who were argubably the most gifted users of Kenjutsu in the entire Narutoverse. Kisame was highly skilled in Kenjutsu able to defeat opponents without the use of ninjutsu giving him the ability to conserve his chakra levels whlist simultaneously exhausting the opponent with the use of Samehada's special trait.

Extremely High Chakra Reserves
Kisame has also shown to have chakra levels so high it can only be paralleled by that of a Tailed Beast giving rise to his nickname of "The Tailless Tailed Beast". Combined with Samehada's ability to absorb chakra, Kisame is not prone to fatigue and rarely gets tired as demonstrated when he fought the Four Tails Jinchuuriki but only complaining to be a "bit tired".

Samehada Fusion Mode
Kisame is also able to expand on his shark like appearance by fusing with his sword Samehada to become half-man, half-shark. He completely merges with Samehada which doing so causes him to grow fins and webbed hands that allow him to move through water with considerable ease. Kisame also receives some of Samehada's abilities while in this form, such as being able to extend spikes from his body for offense, and absorbing chakra when others come into direct contact with him, as well as the ability to track chakra.

Itachi's Moveset and Abilities in Combat

Spoiler

Itachi Uchiha's Abilities​

-Amaretsu
Amaretsu is Itachi’s trump card, due to the destructive nature of one hit landing. These controllable black flames would trump any and all elemental affinities and one successful hit would almost confirm the victory or severely disadvantage the enemy e.g. Minato or Deidara losing a limb. It can also be used as a counter to Deidara’s C2 Dragon and he can be brought into range using the Third Kazekage’s Iron sand.

-Genjutsu Capabilities
Itachi has been shown to be one of the greatest genjutsu users in the entire Naruto series. He was shown to be so proficient in Genjutsu that he could cast one just by pointing one finger at the opponent. Tsukuyomi was Itachi's most powerful genjutsu, it allowed the user to trap the opponent in a illusionary world which stretched out time to the point where mere seconds felt like days of torture.

Crow/Clone Related Techniques
Itachi's main style of fighting was shown to be through the use of clone whether for the intended purpose of ninjutsu or genjutsu. His ninjutsu involving crows mainly involved clones of himself which would often dissolve into crows and the use of genjutsu when flocks of crows would attack the opponent and when hit he himself dissolved into crows.

-Large Scale Fire Release Techniques
Itachi's Fire Release Techniques were on a whole another level being of such a magnitude able to make samehada cringe due to the intensity of the heat and able to even take out most water Release techniques. Itachi's signature Fire Release move was the Giant Fireball technique which was enough to overwhelm and consume most other fire techniques.

-Susanno' Techs
This is a spectral being which was cast over the user of the Jutsu. Itachi was able to use Susanno in the appearance of a spectral knight made out of fire. With Itachi's two signature weapons he could do devastating damage, the Totsuka sword and the Yata Mirror.

-High Prowess Taijutsu
Itachi was also extremely proficient in the art of Taijutsu, completing the three main styles of combat (Ninjutsu, Genjutsu, Taijutsu). This would act as his close range counter to Minato style of fighting, though he most likely won’t be able to beat Minato in this field he can hold out long enough to allow the Third Kazekage to restrain Minato while he’s preoccupied in a heated battle of Taijutsu with Itachi.

Why Kisame could potentially be stronger than Itachi ?

How Kisame Counters Genjutsu
This is the most important counter Kisame needs to even stand a fighting chance against Itachi.

Genjutsu is basically a mental attack which disrupts the flow of chakra primarly in the brain immobilizing the target and making them see illusions which appear for the victim of the genjutsu as a dystopian reality.

The key to breaking a genjutsu is to remove the disruption of chakra through immense will power and/or getting chakra of an outside party. Kisame has shown to possess both of these with the first one being displayed when he broke out of the genjutsu cast on him after he was captured by Gai.

Samehada is the real way Kisame breaks out of Itachi's genjutsu due to the symbiotic relationship he shares with his sentiment sword where he continuously exchanges chakra with it. Receiving chakra from an outside party is the key to breaking a Genjutsu, in this case Samehada acts as the outside party in removing the genjutsu placed upon him by Itachi in the case that he is caught in one.

This may also be possible for Kisame's Samehada Fusion mode as it is a continuous merging of the two's chakra

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How Kisame Counters Susanno
Susanno is Itachi's trump card in a losing or long winded fight to swiftly gain the upper hand. With the Totsuka Blade and the Yata Mirror, Itachi is able to defend against almost any attack whilst simultaneously seal the opponent with one successful hit from the sword. This would be very dangerous against Kisame however for this particular technique he has the perfect counter. Using his

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he would be able to drain Susanno of all of its chakra thus deactivating it whilst also growing stronger proportionally to the amount of chakra it drained from Itachi giving it a secondary use other than deactivating Susanno, making it both a counter and a powerful offensive which could cripple Itachi's chances of winning a fight.


How Kisame Counters Amaretsu
Amaretsu is a deadly attack due to the nature of it being able to overcome any of the 5 Elements (as shown below).

Itachi's Amaretsu Elemental Strengths and Weakness

Strengthened by Wind Techniques simply because the air adds more fuel for the fire to burn with making the flames more intense and allowing it to burn for longer

Immunity to Fire Techniques because the superior fire release technique eventually overwhelms and consumes the inferior one, in this case Amaretsu is always the superior one

Immunity to Water Techniques as the unquenchable flames quickly evaporates the technique no matter how large a body of water is.

Immunity to Earth Techniques due to the flames quickly burning through the land itself

Weakness for Lightning Techniques due to the flames of being at such a heat intensity and temperature that the overall electrical resistivity increases to such a point that electrical conduction becomes to weak to be useful.

However Kisame's counter for Susanno remains relevant to this ability due to it not winning because of elemental advantage but rather seeping out all of the chakra in the technique so it retains no physical form and simply dissipates.

Kisame could also use large scale water techniques to submerge it with enough water so that before it can fully evaporate Kisame's technique the flames are denied of oxygen causing them to be relinquished. This approach is not concrete as the above one but it is still logical enough to be a potential option as even though its differing strength to ordinary fire techniques it still retains its fundamental physical properties.

Kisame's using his Suiton Daikoudan (Great Shark Water Bullet)

Spoiler

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Other Important Factors:​

-Kisame's Great Skills of Kenjutsu rival that of Itachi's Taijutsu

-Does Samehada Fusion Mode also protect against Genjutsu ?

-Kisame's Superior Stamina and Chakra absorbing abilities mean that he it if becomes a fight of attrition or stamina then he would surely beat Itachi due to his far greater stamina and every strike of Samehada taking its toll

-Kisame has the elemental advantage in this fight with Water > Fire

-The Water Prison Jutsu would be impossible for Itachi to escape or counter even if he were to Susanno Kisame could cast his Great Shark Water Bullet or sustain the Prison long enough (moving to the utmost edge) so Itachi dies from a deprivation of oxygen

What do you guys think, Can Kisame stand against Itachi Uchiha ?

 

[Ciberr]

Good thread. Valid points. Even with a slight dislike of Itachi i think he beats Kisame . With they both knowing each other . It really becomes a mental battle. Which most can't best Itachi in .

 

[Prince Charles]

Imo kisame has a good chance against itachi if he starts off with water dome

But at the end of the day itachis tyuskuyomi or amaterasu will finish him sadly

 

[Megan Terumi]

I always thought Kisame stood a good chance against him, but it's Amaterasu that's the problem. The only way Kisame could counter it is if he uses giant water shark bullet to absorb its chakra.

 

[Dantee]

Honestly no, I believe Kisame is quite inferior in a match to Itachi actually. Killer Bee showed that having someone disrupt genjutsu for you still leaves your vulnerable. So Kisame is not completely immune to genjutsu.



Amaterasu is not weak against water>>. It's a flame that never extinguishes and Kisame can't avoid it either.



Kisame also has trouble against speedy oppenents with profecient taijutsu who can seperate him from his sword. Main example (Gai). Itachi carries both 5's in these areas he would have no problem.

I can go on, but it's obvious Kisame respected Itachi as his surperior.

 

[The Hidden Shinobi]

It would be an amazing battle.
Here is some of the things that may happen at the start of their battle. Just for fun xd Not cannon but I love things like this

 

[-Logic-]

Lol, so you post no counter for Tsukuyomi. xd

 

[Gèckö]

countdown to logic's melt down
3 .2 .1 points up

 

[Ciberr]

No actually i change what i said xd .

Itachi would lose . Underwater everybody moves slower , but not Shark boy. Susano'o would be usuless in the water(Which the fight would be in thanks to Kisame). I just don't see itachi catching Kisame in a genjustu because he know's everything Itachi does.

EDIT: I forgot who changed my mind . But forget what i just said .

 

[Fusion Reborn]

Good Points there but Amaterasu is a fire the never burns out, only if the user decides so. But in the end of the day, Kisame respects Itachi as the "stronger" one.

Oh yea, Logics gonna getcha.

 

[OnPoint]

Itachi fans won't listen to reason mate. It'll remain a certain win for the Uchiha in their eyes. I'd say Itachi is the favourite though Kisame may very well win under the right circumstances.

 

[Prince Charles]

Lol, so you post no counter for Tsukuyomi. xd

Lmfao

 

[Dantee]

No actually i change what i said xd .

Itachi would lose . Underwater everybody moves slower , but not Shark boy. Susano'o would be usuless in the water(Which the fight would be in thanks to Kisame). I just don't see itachi catching Kisame in a genjustu because he know's everything Itachi does.

The same can be said for Itachi as well. Why would Itachi let him self be caught in a fight underwater with Kisame? Not only that Itachi is fast enough like Gai to seperate him from his sword.

As for battle intelligence we all know that goes to Itachi.

This fight isn't getting past genjutsu tbh. If anything Amaterasu would shatter Kisame.

 

[Henrik]

Agree, always said this but Itachi fans.. meh

 

[Prince Charles]

No actually i change what i said xd .

Itachi would lose . Underwater everybody moves slower , but not Shark boy. Susano'o would be usuless in the water(Which the fight would be in thanks to Kisame). I just don't see itachi catching Kisame in a genjustu because he know's everything Itachi does.

Itachi would win. A simple tysukuyomi should do the trick

 

[Bogard]

Kisame can win if he can avoid being caught in a genjutsu, but i don't actually see it happening. What you said about Samehada can be true for regular genjutsus(and eventhen, i think it's not that sure), but tsukiyomi is slightly different. It's second to none, so Samehada won't have time to disturb his chakra.

But a possible counter that Kisame could create is using Mizubunshins. We know genjutsus are useless against clones, and you forgot to mention it in your post

 

[Kvothe Kingkiller]

certainly thoughtworthy. Kisame poses a good threat but as they know each other's moves itachi will win due to his intelligence

 

[Meowazziel]

ROCK PAPER SCISSORS.

The only strong ones are those that take out scissors, papers and rocks.
Like minato, itachi, hashirama for example.

 

[CloudStrife786]

bro seriously stop making these wack threads. itachi eats sharkboy for dinner

 

[SuperFlyzzED]

It would be an amazing battle.
Here is some of the things that may happen at the start of their battle. Just for fun xd Not cannon but I love things like this

When did this happen? I must of missed something.