[Theory] Kirin will be Sasuke's weapon of choice against Juubito

[adeshina365]

The english dub of the anime definitely supports the idea that Kirin is nature energy. Zetsu says that Sasuke doesn't have to use his own chakra at all, he uses the enormous energy occuring in the atmosphere.

Unless someone is trying to argue that the energy in the clouds is chakra and that lightning is the clouds' ninjutsu, this theory holds up perfectly under scrutiny.

It's episode 138 btw, a far more legitimate source than any free manga scans with fan translations online.

1. The manga (official viz scan) says the same thing...

2. The anime isn't canon. It can't be used as support for anything.

 

[hearteaterx]

1. The manga (official viz scan) says the same thing...

2. The anime isn't canon. It can't be used as support for anything.

Lol you're incorrect, Naruto canon includes the anime. The reason the 'official viz manga' says the same thing is because the anime is dubbed by viz too. If you really want to argue that only the material penned by Kishimoto himself is canon (aka the japanese manga only, that you can't read or understand and only get translations of) that's incorrect, but for the sake of not getting flamed out of these forums by angry narutards I'll humour you.

The only reason I dared to mention the anime in these hostile forums is because most of the scans we see on this site use fan translations. It's easy for fans to write anything, hence the various different versions of each chapter every week. I mentioned the anime because we can hear the 'official viz voice actors in our own language.

My point and yours is the same in the end, viz material > fan translations

It's hilarious to argue that 'manga translated by viz' is canon and 'anime translated by viz' is non-canon

Literally as soon as something happens in anime, it's canon in Narutoverse, but feel free to pretend Naruto anime, video games, etc. don't exist and only the black and white manga represents the series.

ETA: If Sasuke doesn't put chakra into kirin, even if it isn't 'natural enrgy' it still isn't chakra-based ninjutsu, so Obito shouldn't be able to block it. The fact wasn't stated that *only* senjutsu can hit Obito, it was just the first technique they realized he couldn't block. Kirin should fit into the category of attacks Obito can't block.

 

[adeshina365]

Lol you're incorrect, Naruto canon includes the anime. The reason the 'official viz manga' says the same thing is because the anime is dubbed by viz too. If you really want to argue that only the material penned by Kishimoto himself is canon (aka the japanese manga only, that you can't read or understand and only get translations of) that's incorrect, but for the sake of not getting flamed out of these forums by angry narutards I'll humour you.

The only reason I dared to mention the anime in these hostile forums is because most of the scans we see on this site use fan translations. It's easy for fans to write anything, hence the various different versions of each chapter every week. I mentioned the anime because we can hear the 'official viz voice actors in our own language.

My point and yours is the same in the end, viz material > fan translations

It's hilarious to argue that 'manga translated by viz' is canon and 'anime translated by viz' is non-canon

Literally as soon as something happens in anime, it's canon in Narutoverse, but feel free to pretend Naruto anime, video games, etc. don't exist and only the black and white manga represents the series.

ETA: If Sasuke doesn't put chakra into kirin, even if it isn't 'natural enrgy' it still isn't chakra-based ninjutsu, so Obito shouldn't be able to block it. The fact wasn't stated that *only* senjutsu can hit Obito, it was just the first technique they realized he couldn't block. Kirin should fit into the category of attacks Obito can't block.

While I can see where you're coming from, I don't quite agree. It's not just a matter of translation, but also a matter of content.

I imagine the majority of members on this board will disagree with this view as well. Mainly because the anime tends to add a lot of filler in between canon episodes that contradict established ideas [Kakashi being able to use Katon despite the manga (and anime even) stating that at best top tier shinobis could use 3 elements] .

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

Natural energy =\= Senjutsu

"- Senjutsu uses Spiritual, Physical and Natural Energy (balanced 1:1:1 ratio)"

explain to me how lightning is composed of this

This is exactly what pisses me off. Learn how to read and reread the manga before you make ridicolous assumptions like this. Seriously, illiterate people are getting on my nerves.

Theres more then enough OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE provided by the manga that supports the OP statements which are not even technically theoretical but realistic.

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

That's exactly what I'm thinking, touched over this a bit in the OP. I think Enton overall could potentially speed up the entire process of creating the thunder clouds.

It would make sense to speed up the process as well. More heat energy leads to faster and greater formation of storm clouds. Perfect Kirin is defiantly plausible.

 

[The Work]

Who knows?

But I think Juubito will fodderize it

 

[FourthSmokage]

@fourthsmokage. Yes that is my point. He has more then just Omyoudon. He has natural defenses that are strong enough to stop kunai and exploding tags.

Well, Im saying he has natural defenses that can also tank a nuclear warhead.

And Naruto's sage Rasengan combined with the natural energy from the toad's spit thingy allowed for a breach in Obito's defenses, although it probably didnt kill him. The same can most likely be done with Kirin, given the evidence and information we currently have. Because of the sheer power of kirin and the fact that it uses natural energy, it will pierce Obito's Omyoudon, but I seriously doubt it will solo him, even if Sasuke has improved upon Kirin, due to Obito's natural defence. Still, I bet it'll sting.

I agree about using Susano enton to heat up the atmosphere. That would be the easiest way for Sasuke to go about this tech.

 

[FearxDeath]

Re: Kirin will be Sasuke's weapon of choice against Juubito [updated]

In regards to hidorama's comment I have to disagree:

1) - Ninjutsu uses Spiritual and Physical Energy (balanced 1:1 ratio)

This is wrong because we have seen that some jutsu require more Yang energy and some more Yin. Hence why the 3rd Mizukage refered to himself as being a Yin Style user, because he uses mostly genjutsu. While Hashirama's Mokuton is abundant in Yang Chakra. I dont think the ratio is 1/1 and I dont think it is the same for all jutsu.

2) - Senjutsu uses Spiritual, Physical and Natural Energy (balanced 1:1:1 ratio)

Copy and paste the above here, I think the ration for senjutsu is more like 6:2:2, in favor of Senjutsu. For personaly reasons.

3) - What really damaged Obito wasn't Naruto's Rasengan being a Senjutsu technique, but the technique having Nature energy inside.

This is correct but unnecessary logic, the better route to go would simply to reclassify Kirin as technically being a Pseudo Senjutsu Technique. But now im just busting your balls x__x

Other than 1 and 2 I agree with everything above, and 1 and 2 not being there does really take away from the main scheme of things so in the end I agree. My gut doesnt want to, but the logic is there so I cant deny it.

 

[FourthSmokage]

Re: Kirin will be Sasuke's weapon of choice against Juubito [updated]

This is correct but unnecessary logic, the better route to go would simply to reclassify Kirin as technically being a Pseudo Senjutsu Technique. But now im just busting your balls x__x

Heh if you call Kirin a Senjutsu the Narutobasers will mob up and come after you lol

 

[Senju Bean]

And Naruto's sage Rasengan combined with the natural energy from the toad's spit thingy allowed for a breach in Obito's defenses, although it probably didnt kill him. The same can most likely be done with Kirin, given the evidence and information we currently have. Because of the sheer power of kirin and the fact that it uses natural energy, it will pierce Obito's Omyoudon, but I seriously doubt it will solo him, even if Sasuke has improved upon Kirin, due to Obito's natural defence. Still, I bet it'll sting.

I agree about using Susano enton to heat up the atmosphere. That would be the easiest way for Sasuke to go about this tech.

Well, while that may seem convincing, the only reason Obito got peirced by Rasengan is that somehow, Senjutsu acts like a kryptonite to Obito. It magically softens him, allowing the rasengan to go through.

Obito as a tough body for sure. He withstood all of this falling on him. No broken bones.

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[FourthSmokage]

Well, while that may seem convincing, the only reason Obito got peirced by Rasengan is that somehow, Senjutsu acts like a kryptonite to Obito. It magically softens him, allowing the rasengan to go through.

Obito as a tough body for sure. He withstood all of this falling on him. No broken bones.

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If you dislike Kirin that much to ignore all the evidence pointing towards its effectiveness, then be my guest. I'll point you to Hirudora's past posts (specifically the one included in the OP) for all of the other points I haven't debated.

 

[lion fang master]

Karin is basically a healer in this manga period the person son that is going to help sasuke is juugo. I believe sasuke is going to get jeasous of naruto and go get himself hurt badly where oro would do the same thing he did for tsunade + tell juugo to sasuke some of his powers that is also now mix with hashirama's DNA.

 

[V h o]

That seems likely. Finally kirin won't seen like a justu kishi made up just for one battle.

 

[Kyno]

Why are so many people so dumb?

If you were smart, you would realize that manga never, ever, ever states that only sage jutsu will work. All it states is that Juubito's jutsu nullifies ninjutsu. Senjutsu has different properties than ninjutsu, so it works. Fuinjutsu has different properties than ninjutsu, the FTG seal that is currently on Juubito that isn't erased, those work because they have different properties than ninjutsu. It is not just sage jutsu that works. It's just that Juubito's jutsu nullifies ninjutsu, so you can't use ninjutsu. Naruto's sage mode attacks are classified as both ninjutsu and senjutsu, but they still work, even though they are also ninjutsu. And the wiki is made by people, and people can be silly as you who are saying kirin is a ninjutsu are being. Kirin is even less of a ninjutsu than senjutsu rasengan is. The rasengan is made up of chakra and senjutsu chakra, while kirin is made up of completely natural energies. It is a valid move that would work against juubito.

Unfortunately, there are no clouds, so it's not gonna happen. He can attempt to make clouds, but Obito has seen the jutsu and knows what it is, he has probably already identified it as a worry and will make sure to stop it before it starts. Unless pnj. No one beats pnj.

 

[Ovan]

Maybe.. Seems more like a Nature based attack. I agree with this thread.

 

[Zaiigoukyou]

That seems likely. Finally kirin won't seen like a justu kishi made up just for one battle.

Thats very true. Following the patterns of the manga it seems once a significant jutsu is introduced it always has an important role in the manga. Ex would be the rasengan preparing naruto for the tailed beast bomb or sage mode used to counter 3rd raikages attack and juubitos ultimate defense. Chidori which played an important role in sasukes battle with diedara. Kirin has room for development as well.

 

[adeshina365]

Maybe.. Seems more like a Nature based attack. I agree with this thread.

Thank you.

Thats very true. Following the patterns of the manga it seems once a significant jutsu is introduced it always has an important role in the manga. Ex would be the rasengan preparing naruto for the tailed beast bomb or sage mode used to counter 3rd raikages attack and juubitos ultimate defense. Chidori which played an important role in sasukes battle with diedara. Kirin has room for development as well.

Agreed.

We haven't seen Kirin for 250 chapters, its time for it to make its comeback.

 

[sasukexx13]

I knew it since the day 642 was released

 

[adeshina365]

The translation of the RAW of Chapter 643 has Naruto saying that Natural Energy is why he could hurt the Juubi and has Sasuke saying that "Only Natural Energy can counter Natural Energy".

This supports part of the basis of my theory and other poster's thinking. This theory is looking more likely.

 

[Mr Hiru]

The translation of the RAW of Chapter 643 has Naruto saying that Natural Energy is why he could hurt the Juubi and has Sasuke saying that "Only Natural Energy can counter Natural Energy".

This supports part of the basis of my theory and other poster's thinking. This theory is looking more likely.

Well, I made a theory too assuming the simplest case (Natural Energy).

:| people bashed me, at least I'm not alone in NB...