Kirin Vs Space/Time Ninjutsu

MuDfAcToRy25

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People seem to be under the mistaken impression that Kirin, because its made of lightning, moves at the speed of light! That is not true. Lightning travel at around 224000 mph while light moves at a STAGGERING 671 million mph!!!

Now lets look at Space/Time Ninjutsu shall we?



Zetsu compares Tobi's speed to the speed of light!!! So it's safe to say Tobi doesn't fear Kirin. FTG was also a Space/Time Ninjutsu. So it's speed was probably similar only its drawback was the need of markers to move. Naruto movement is compared to the FTG by everyone who has seen him AND the FTG but HE DOESN'T NEED MARKERS!

AND the term SPACE/TIME was coined by Albert Einstein in his theory of relativity concerning travel at light speed. So if Kishi named these techs Space/Times techs, shouldn't we think they have something to do with light speed travel???

So shouldn't Naruto be able to dodge Kirin? Just think about that....
 

Uchiha Josephus

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yeah he should and also it takes time to use and naruto isnt just gonna stand there is he ahhahhah
Naruto: "What are you doing?"
Sasuke: "I'm powering up! shut up! and don't attack! or move!"
Naruto: "Hmmmmm ... okay! I hear that's what strong people do!"
Sasuke: *thinking to himself* "Yes! What an idiot! What a baffo-"
Naruto: *flicker* "RASENGAN!"
Sasuke: "But WHYYYYYYYYGGLAAAGGHLAPPPFPBPT!!!!!!"
 

Out Of Ctrl

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Naruto: "What are you doing?"
Sasuke: "I'm powering up! shut up! and don't attack! or move!"
Naruto: "Hmmmmm ... okay! I hear that's what strong people do!"
Sasuke: *thinking to himself* "Yes! What an idiot! What a baffo-"
Naruto: *flicker* "RASENGAN!"
Sasuke: "But WHYYYYYYYYGGLAAAGGHLAPPPFPBPT!!!!!!"
LOL ;)
 

Ron Stoppable

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Naruto: "What are you doing?"
Sasuke: "I'm powering up! shut up! and don't attack! or move!"
Naruto: "Hmmmmm ... okay! I hear that's what strong people do!"
Sasuke: *thinking to himself* "Yes! What an idiot! What a baffo-"
Naruto: *flicker* "RASENGAN!"
Sasuke: "But WHYYYYYYYYGGLAAAGGHLAPPPFPBPT!!!!!!"
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA! ROFL! xd
 

AntMan

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Naruto: "What are you doing?"
Sasuke: "I'm powering up! shut up! and don't attack! or move!"
Naruto: "Hmmmmm ... okay! I hear that's what strong people do!"
Sasuke: *thinking to himself* "Yes! What an idiot! What a baffo-"
Naruto: *flicker* "RASENGAN!"
Sasuke: "But WHYYYYYYYYGGLAAAGGHLAPPPFPBPT!!!!!!"
Lmfao.
 

ajpn920

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Naruto: "What are you doing?"
Sasuke: "I'm powering up! shut up! and don't attack! or move!"
Naruto: "Hmmmmm ... okay! I hear that's what strong people do!"
Sasuke: *thinking to himself* "Yes! What an idiot! What a baffo-"
Naruto: *flicker* "RASENGAN!"
Sasuke: "But WHYYYYYYYYGGLAAAGGHLAPPPFPBPT!!!!!!"
ahahaha...:overjoy:
 

Owarij

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Sigh you don't get it , SPACE TIME may move at the speed of light, But the thing that gets tobi and minato , is REACTION TIME....

lightning does not move at the speed of light, but it still Moves freaking fast.... 1000th of a second is no where near slow.... the speed it takes to blink is only around 1/64th of a second...

The reaction time of minato and tobi to use their s/t jutsu, is their downfall....
It's why tobi was hit with amaterasu, he had no time to activate his s/t...its why tobi got hit by minato's rasengan...

unless they see kirin coming from the pre signs ( sasuke raising his hand, thunder roaring etc) , there is no way they are dodging lightning ... no way... im sorry, you can't even blink in the time lightning strikes earth, you cant move a muscle, you cant formulate a thought, nothing
 
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Voidstep

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Sigh you don't get it , SPACE TIME may move at the speed of light, But the thing that gets tobi and minato , is REACTION TIME....

lightning does not move at the speed of light, but it still Moves freaking fast.... 1000th of a second is no where near slow.... the speed it takes to blink is only around 1/64th of a second...

The reaction time of minato and tobi to use their s/t jutsu, is their downfall....
It's why tobi was hit with amaterasu, he had no time to activate his s/t...its why tobi got hit by minato's rasengan...

unless they see kirin coming from the pre signs ( sasuke raising his hand, thunder roaring etc) , there is no way they are dodging lightning ... no way... im sorry, you can't even blink in the time lightning strikes earth, you cant move a muscle, you cant formulate a thought, nothing
I hope you realize that, the reaction time of someone prepared is different from the reaction time of someone unprepared.

Tobi only got hit by amatersau because he was caught by surprise. Plus Tobi S/T overall might be better than Minato's S/T, but FTG is faster to "activate", how Tobi normally evades hits is by getting intangible.
Naruto would also been hit by Raikage V2 if he was caught by surprise, but since he was prepared, it made a difference. Thunder roaring plus chidori in hand pointing to sky, is more than a good reason to be prepared to move lol.
 
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Owarij

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I hope you realize that, the reaction time of someone prepared is different from the reaction time of someone unprepared.

Tobi only got hit by amatersau because he was caught by surprise. Plus Tobi S/T overall might be better than Minato's S/T, but FTG is faster to "activate", how Tobi normally evades hits is by getting intangible.
Naruto would also been hit by Raikage V2 if he was caught by surprise, but since he was prepared, it made a difference. Thunder roaring plus chidori in hand pointing to sky, is more than a good reason to be prepared to move lol.

did you not see me say they can dodge it because of the pre signs? my point is that they can't dodge it without those...
 

Wind..

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If if he gets hit... Kirin couldn't even do any damage to Itachi when he had broken ribs Susano'o V1 that Raikage could punch through... And pretty sure BM Mode Chakra Cloak thing is probably much stronger than Susano'o V1
 

leafeater

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AND the term SPACE/TIME was coined by Albert Einstein in his theory of relativity concerning travel at light speed. So if Kishi named these techs Space/Times techs, shouldn't we think they have something to do with light speed travel???
Einstein did not coin the term space-time for gods sake, it's a topological description of the four dimensional manifold that is our universe described by relativity. 3 dimensions are composed of space and 1 of time, hence the four dimensional manifold that is our universe is simply referred to as space-time. That's it, coining a term means that Einstein was inventing a new phrase, when all he was doing was conjoining the existing two sets of (space and time) manifolds into a singular 4-D manifold of our universe in one theory. I'm sorry, but the way you've written it makes him sound like a Carnival guy or salesmen, lol, and I couldn't resist any longer. :(

As to your question, should we think that Kishimoto knows relativity and travel at light speed for space-time techniques in Naruto? No, that's utterly ridiculous. He doesn't have a degree in physics that we know of. Not to mention that if he did, he would certainly know Heisenberg's uncertainty principle and the mathematical corollary of Schrodinger's cat, where by Heisenberg's principle one cannot know both an electron's exact position and momentum with absolute information of each, which is required for Kishimoto's FTG and all other space-time techniques in Naruto, including summoning jutsu, etc. Why people always concentrate on relativity and leave out quantum mechanics I never know, except that they don't know quantum mechanics, lol. That's OK, as I don't expect everyone to know quantum mechanics, as that's pretty unfair, and it's probably not taught as much in the school systems. Further, relativity has been popularized so much that it's been distilled to losing a lot of it's finer technical points (see below).

Kishi has no freaking clue how relativity or quantum mechanics work, just look at how vague the space-time techniques are. I do a S/T jutsu, and I disappear from A and reappear at B thanks to my ninja technique due to hand seals, seals on objects, Tobi's technique, etc. There are no details whatsoever beyond that for the most part. Yes, Minato's seals on his kunai or other tagged objects serve as a beacon for his FTG jutsu, but what the hell does that even mean in terms of physics? I can tell you, as someone who knows physics, it's a bunch of nothing. He didn't say it opens up a wormhole for Minato to find his opponents or something... Further, space-time techniques wouldn't have to do with accelerating to the speed of light, they would more likely have to do with traveling at a normal speed but traveling a shorter distance, hence traveling faster that way (kinda weird I know, :)). That's why space-time a 4-D manifold was described, because traversing Cartesian space-time via shortcuts is how FTG would work, not going at the speed of light (no idea how you got that idea, as light would need a discrete vector and is more akin to body flicker if I had to ascribe a technique to it).

While I am at this, I feel you should know Einstein never wrote E=m*c^2 either as it makes certain assumptions, namely that objects are at rest, which is obviously not always the case (thus it fails when they're not). People simply popularized this formulation because it's simple and elegant. He wrote his solution in terms of energy and momentum with corrections for Newton's formulation of momentum (p=mv), so a more complicated/elaborated form of p=m*v and to accommodate for terms not at rest. The elaborated form is too hard to write in this forum format, so see below...

While Wikipedia isn't always a reliable resource, this is a page of relativistic equations, and the ones I looked at appear correct, albeit I only had time to run through some of them. Look at the "Energy" equations and you'll see the ones you all know and love (i.e. E=mc^2), and while they refer to them as a binomial series expansion a Taylor series is also an appropriate description for anyone who's taken a semester or two of Calculus. :)



:izuna:

Peace

Sigh you don't get it , SPACE TIME may move at the speed of light, But the thing that gets tobi and minato , is REACTION TIME....

lightning does not move at the speed of light, but it still Moves freaking fast.... 1000th of a second is no where near slow.... the speed it takes to blink is only around 1/64th of a second...

The reaction time of minato and tobi to use their s/t jutsu, is their downfall....
It's why tobi was hit with amaterasu, he had no time to activate his s/t...its why tobi got hit by minato's rasengan...

unless they see kirin coming from the pre signs ( sasuke raising his hand, thunder roaring etc) , there is no way they are dodging lightning ... no way... im sorry, you can't even blink in the time lightning strikes earth, you cant move a muscle, you cant formulate a thought, nothing
This is one of my favorite posts in a while actually. It's valid in my personal opinion, concise, well written,...., complete.

Honestly, I do wonder if Minato's reflexes are sufficient though given his ability to dodge the Raikage's fastest punch by teleporting out in that flashback. Of course I have no data on how fast the Raikage's punch was moving at.

I also wonder when Itachi activated Susanoo against Sasuke, and how long that takes to activate considering that's what saved him from Kirin and it wasn't complete when it did so.

If Minato has a kunai in his hand, how long does it take him to teleport from the moment he makes the decision as there's a motor delay that I doubt is accounted for by Kishi.

Again, nicely done, +rep :)

Peace
 

StrifeMaccy

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If he wasnt expecting kirin (which is unlikely i know) then he shouldnt be able to dodge it.
People cant tell the difference between something moving at 22400 mph or speed of light over short distances, so they might compare it to ftg, but they're just meaning hes bloody fast, not faster than lightning.
Naruto would have to react and then move, against an attack that wouldnt be from far away, 100m at most?
So people are saying he could see the attack, realise he has to dodge, and then dodge?
Well if he can actually run that fast, then nobody in the Narutoverse can compete with that im afraid, so they may as well end the series now.
 

grenwood

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Sigh you don't get it , SPACE TIME may move at the speed of light, But the thing that gets tobi and minato , is REACTION TIME....

lightning does not move at the speed of light, but it still Moves freaking fast.... 1000th of a second is no where near slow.... the speed it takes to blink is only around 1/64th of a second...

The reaction time of minato and tobi to use their s/t jutsu, is their downfall....
It's why tobi was hit with amaterasu, he had no time to activate his s/t...its why tobi got hit by minato's rasengan...

unless they see kirin coming from the pre signs ( sasuke raising his hand, thunder roaring etc) , there is no way they are dodging lightning ... no way... im sorry, you can't even blink in the time lightning strikes earth, you cant move a muscle, you cant formulate a thought, nothing
lets not forget that the only time sasuke ever used kirin, he told itachi what he was doing allowing itachi to use susanoo
so sasuke is an idiot that will ruin his own chances at victory
 

yeahhh

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yeah he should and also it takes time to use and naruto isnt just gonna stand there is he ahhahhah
I agree with everything yo usaid + ^ lol

I have seen people post crap about Kirin and I am like...anyone with skillz can dodge that shit or prevent Sasuke from using it since it takes time for him to prepare the technique..
 

DarkSasuke

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Ok even if naruto is faster than kirin if he cant react fast enough hes finish naruto really doesnt have the greatest reaction time and naruto never saw kirin before so he wont know what the hell is going on and for all of you saying naruto wont let him do kirin all sasuke has to do is fly in the air and take all the time he needs cause a hawk is fast and naruto cant fly to avoid kirin you need quick reflexes like Neji
 

Photon

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naruto wont need to dodge persai but keep moving and then sasuke will never be able to track him and aim and hit him succesfully.
 
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