Like Katsura said, you should not jump to conclusions so fast. The debate has just begun.
KIFFLOM vs Beansandcornbread2
- Thread starter TheAncientCenturion
- Start date
Gold Lightning
Active member
Dęvîa Puęrî
Active member
So far it seems beans is winning debate tho it's too early to tell lol I for one hate going first during these things lol but yeah kisame ftw :bouncy:
TRE MERCER
Active member
Awards
MadaraReturns
Active member
Awards
SM Naruto would lose, he isn't that strong, he only had intel on a (ill) pain. Like beansandcorn... probably said Kisame could just summon water to counter Rasen Shuriken. Probably gonna come across this when I'm gonna read the battle.
Sorry for the late reply, i just never got the time
if thats the case, then that saves me alot of time, since you havnt provided any counters to most of my points, as most of the battle would still be at an open location
when its completely OOC for Kisame to immediately start the battle with water dome
last time i checked, the speed of sound and the whole process of forming frog call
kisame has way too much going on for him, when naruto can just use his speed, and his boss summons to engage kisame and prevent him from forming the waterdome,
whilst ma and pa immediately cast frog call and catch him in
inb4 narutos speed isnt enough, No it certainly is
as narutos speed in SM is well above kisames seeing how
and SM jiraiya is someone with reflexes and reactions superior to Kisame,
having the summons here just makes this easier, when gamabunta immediately leaps in and closes the distance, to ensure that the effects of frog call are enhanced to its full potential, and kisame gets caught
with that being said, kisame is not doing shit before he gets immobilised by frog call, as once that happens, kisame is done for, and the battle ends right there
not to mention that i never stated that Frog Call would be used underwater so this is irrelevant to even explain here,
as you have yet to explain how kisame merges with samehada and forms water dome before he ma and pa can basically speak
but no way in hell is he forming the waterdome in that time as well,
and merging with samehada is clearly not helping kisame from getting caught or counterin the genjutsu,
and its certainly not affecting SM naruto or his boss summons thats for sure,
when
as its leap was also
with that being said, even if kisame attempts to form the waterdome, it gets disrupted as the jutsu doesnt just immediately form into the whole dome, it still takes time to form, as during the time kisame is firing his jutsu,
the distance of 40m is not preventing kisame from frog call here,
waterdome isnt a sufficient counter at alll, when kisame has no chance of evading sound and covering each and every single one of them before getting caught
the nature energy was absorbed by naruto, however preta was absorbing senjutsu chakra since the natural energy was blending with narutos chakra in the whole process, therefore preta was still just absorbing senjutsu,
only sages are capable of absorbing raw natural energy, so its clear that preta absorbed too much senjutsu, not just natural energy
so the excuse of preta absorbing some senjutsu, doesnt mean that samehada is not affected by senjutsu at all,
especially when
hell samehada gets affected after absorbing even a tiny portion of chakra,
it absorbing alot of senjutsu chakra would make matters much worse, when it obviously cant control chakra blended with natural energy, thus iit gets turned to frog,
all before he even forms the dome,
as for kisame outnumbering naruto, thats clearly not the case,
when naruto has 3 boss summons to beat up the sharks, as well as a single SM clone eradicating any of the waterclones that kisame may attempt to form, seeing how
as for waterdome, naruto doesnt need to land a hit on kisame, all he needs to do is evade it, which he most certainly can, seeing how the dome would be nowhere near the size that kisame formed against bee, as this time he wont have a ton of bijuu chakra to form it
you are also overrating the water dome abit too much, when naruto certainly has the means to coutner it,
first of all, naruto can swim towards the top of the dome,
the dome itself only travels on kisames horizontal motion, unless you think that the waterdome can fly, which clearly isnt the case, as naruto uses his clones as a diversion, and swims towards the top of the dome and jump out of it,
furthermore naruto can still form more than 3 clones, the only problem is that it interferes with his SM, which he doesnt really need inside the dome, so he can just revert back to base
with that being said, naruto uses
kisame using his weak water clones or sharks isnt cutting it here either, before naruto evades the dome, reenters SM, and massacres kisame
normal suitons are still non factor when they are not landing, or damaging him here,
and yeah i will address WD and GSB later on as well
Kisame weilds the blade, and uses it accordingly based on his own reactions, not samehada,
the blade only absorbs chakra,
if someone such as kaguya uses samehada to absorb juubitos chakra,
then does that mean that samehada alone now has the reflexes to react to juubito?
no it doesnt
naruto doesnt need to use Frog Kata under water, but even if he uses it, it certainly is still working
all it does is use
the attack beiing slowed doesnt mean that kisame can perciieve it, so the moment he attempts to come near a clone he gets pulverised by frog kata,
the attack is certainly landing when
which is the only important thing for naruto
kisame isnt just instantly getting back up from frog kata either,
when narutos sheer strength one shotted shurado, despite the path being durable enough to survive
and still survived to an extent that he was even able to
this just goes to show how powerful SM narutos hits are,
and with access to clones that can use this to delay kisame well enough, as well as summons that can still operate under water just fine, means that naruto can escape the waterdome, even through this strategy
and Please explain to me why naruto cant react to Kisame?, his SM perception and reflexes allowed him to react and counterattack even the THird raikage, who is on par with a speedster like V1 Ay,
and when Naruto outright blitzed Shurado from a distance of over 30m?
not to mention that even base bee was reacting to kisame, he was just unable to evade his blows,
hell even
furthermore, kisame being faster than naruto underwater doesnt mean that naruto cant escape it,
when he has more than enough numbers to divert kisames attention and break him free
kisame only absorbed bees chakra,and that was due to the sheer reason to allow sabu and ponta to escape, nothing else happened,
if anyone that has the range advantage, its naruto here, when
hell a Frog Kata that didnt even land on preta still one shotted it,
and i have already established narutos strength in SM,
narutos mid/long range attacks, such as FRS, summons, frog call, rasengan barrages, are also well above most of kisames arsenal which is entirely based on chakra absorption from CQC
how is it even valid when kisame cant decipher the clone from the original
and kisame would have to place his arm to be able to maintain the jutsu,
so in all honesty, he is just focusing most of his time to focus on a clone, whilst the real just gets away, or the 3 boss toads can just attack him during that time, as the field is not effecting them
furthermore, as i have stated above, naruto doesnt need to use SM in-order to counter the waterdome, (if kisame is lucky enough to even form it before getting killed),
he can revert to base, and form over 1000 clones, to completely divert kisames attention and escape the dome,
if he is engaged by naruto in CQC at a dry location, then he certainly gets his sword taken away, and killed
and kisame merging with samehada is not troubling naruto at all, only waterdome is which naruto can counter anyways
its about the fact that samehada would still take damage from the attack before it absorbs,
so the rasengan blows a hole on it,
not to mention that with naruto having superior speed and reflexes, means that he would land his rasengan on kisame, not his blade
naruto can still evade the shark through his shunshin, and with toads and clones here, he can simply use them to attack kisame to disrupt his control over the jutsu,
frog call can also restrain him and allow naruto to slam him with FRS,
It only absorbed the tiny component of that katon yet it was still affected,
Neji compared that kisames chakra levels to Part 1 naruto, since he didnt even see part 2 naruto at that point of time
part 2 narutos reserves are obviously on a much higher level than 30% kisame, thats for sure,
and No, the water dome that kisame makes here wont be close to what he made in canon,
unless you think that Kisames own reserves >> Kisame + Ton of Hachibi chakra,
here this isnt happening at all, meaning that the dome wont be as big
however without a ton of bijuu chakra its not going to be anywhere near its size,
hell with only a portion of bijuu chakra,
logic dictates that the size of waterdome isnt going to be anywhere near the level of what kisame formed in canon,
meaning that naruto can counter it alot easier and quicker
as he would be left wide open for that,
not to mention that whats stopping naruto and his clones to stay hidden within each toad and escape the dome?
where each toad scatters away from each other, and we have kisame unable to get the field advantage on the toads thanks to them being able to breath, and we have kisame unable to attack all toads at a time, or deciphering the real narutos postiion, therefore allowing him to escape
he turns to base, forms multi shadow clones and gets them to scatter all around the dome to evade it,
kisames waterclones are only weakening kisame here, and effecting his control over the waterdome, and his sharks are not overwhelming shit, when boss summons alone can eradicate them just fine, and when naruto can also use his clones to fire off rasengans to eradicate any oncoming obstacle,
and ensuring that the real evades it
and this is just getting ridiculous now,
kisame is either maintaining the dome, or hes using GSB,
he is not using both at the same time,
hell, kisame using even waterclones and 1000 sharks whilst maintainign the dome seems really iffy, when he didnt use that in canon either,
and as stated above, naruto doesnt need SM to counter the WD,
he can counter it in base just fine, seeing how it allows naruto to form alot more diversions which is all he needs to coutner the waterdome
here naruto can form even more due to having superior reserves and mastery over the jutsu,
so no way in hell is kisame getting to the real naruto with a smaller dome, and with naruto having several clones with each of them being capable to use rasengans to overcome any obstacle as well as his summons that can operate, thus allowing the real one and some other clones (most likely) to get away safe and sound,
GSB would divert his control over the dome completely,
and even if we go by your strategy, its still not helping kisame at all,
him using something like GSB on a mere summon, just makes this even easier for naruto to escape,
waterdome is designed for 1v1 combat, however with naruto increasing his numbers exponentially, just makes this impossible for kisame to land a hit on the real
kisame being able to attack with some sharks is good and all, but they are still not cutting it here, when a single rasengan eradicates multiple of them in one shot, or when a summon can guard naruto and his clones and takes out the sharks just fine,
whilst the other summons and clones divert kisamehadas attention away from the real,
and allow naruto to get out of the dome
furthermore, with buntas leaps, he can be above kisame and summon a toad such as gamahiro or gamaken right on kisame thus disrupting his control over GSB and ending iit right there
he isnt using 2 of his biggest moves at the same time, he eiither uses Waterdome, or he uses GSB its simple as that,
furthermore, i dont remember FCD requiring handseals? that was only in the anime
and a summoning jutsu is still alot faster than kisame forming GSB,
kisame isnt using GSB whilst under the waterdome either, he can only do one thing at a time,
Hirudora had to go directly through GSB,
frog call doesnt need to do that, since kisame would still be able to hear sound just fine, meaning that he gets caught and restrained,
all it involves is the toads basically speaking,
and on ground naruto certainly can shunshin out of it,, and attack him head on,
Base Clones >> Sharks,,
so they arent matched at all
no way in hell are toads being taken out by mere sharks,
and Kisame using GSB on mere toads is just a waste of his time, when he would be a sitting duck for naruto to attack
kisame weaving signs and forming GSB to intercept FRS on time, is just laughable
not to mention that why would naruto even bother firring an FRS right at GSB. when he knows that itll absorb the jutsu,
he can also just use transformation on the FRS to divert kisames attention whilst the real one slams him down with a rasengan or a frog kata from behind, since the jutsu only covers the front side of the user
--If he remains at a distance in the waterdome, then naruto can evade the WD more easily so either way, a long range combat is not hellping kisame
naruto having the means to use his diversions to attack kisame as well as having the speed/reflexes to evade the jutsu = GSB not one shotting shit
one FRS alone is far too much for it,
certainly not comfortably
You must be registered for see images
So according to your premise, kisame would only resort to combat with the Waterdome?,
if thats the case, then that saves me alot of time, since you havnt provided any counters to most of my points, as most of the battle would still be at an open location
when its completely OOC for Kisame to immediately start the battle with water dome
No way in hell is kisame spitting out water dome and merging with samehada before ma and pa can basically speak,
last time i checked, the speed of sound and the whole process of forming frog call
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
is alot faster than kisame spitting out waterdome and merging with samehada, kisame has way too much going on for him, when naruto can just use his speed, and his boss summons to engage kisame and prevent him from forming the waterdome,
whilst ma and pa immediately cast frog call and catch him in
inb4 narutos speed isnt enough, No it certainly is
as narutos speed in SM is well above kisames seeing how
You must be registered for see links
in only one blow from a
You must be registered for see links
, despite the path itself being able to catch even
You must be registered for see links
and
You must be registered for see links
and SM jiraiya is someone with reflexes and reactions superior to Kisame,
having the summons here just makes this easier, when gamabunta immediately leaps in and closes the distance, to ensure that the effects of frog call are enhanced to its full potential, and kisame gets caught
with that being said, kisame is not doing shit before he gets immobilised by frog call, as once that happens, kisame is done for, and the battle ends right there
Ok, though that would never happen, since kisame is getting caught before he forms the WD,
not to mention that i never stated that Frog Call would be used underwater so this is irrelevant to even explain here,
as you have yet to explain how kisame merges with samehada and forms water dome before he ma and pa can basically speak
Nope,, Frog Call is a sound genjutsu, how the hell can samehada absorb such a thing,
Kisame may be able to fuse before naruto comes 40m,
but no way in hell is he forming the waterdome in that time as well,
and merging with samehada is clearly not helping kisame from getting caught or counterin the genjutsu,
what shockwave are you talking about here?, none of kisames suitons have showed even a remote sign of a shockwave,
and its certainly not affecting SM naruto or his boss summons thats for sure,
when
You must be registered for see links
, and one jump from it covered a
You must be registered for see links
, as its leap was also
You must be registered for see links
, with that being said, even if kisame attempts to form the waterdome, it gets disrupted as the jutsu doesnt just immediately form into the whole dome, it still takes time to form, as during the time kisame is firing his jutsu,
You must be registered for see links
and immediately fire off frog call, or simply attack him through numbers to stop kisame from forming the entire dome, the distance of 40m is not preventing kisame from frog call here,
waterdome isnt a sufficient counter at alll, when kisame has no chance of evading sound and covering each and every single one of them before getting caught
Senjutsu chakra is just the result of nature energy blended with the users own chakra,
You must be registered for see links
, the nature energy was absorbed by naruto, however preta was absorbing senjutsu chakra since the natural energy was blending with narutos chakra in the whole process, therefore preta was still just absorbing senjutsu,
only sages are capable of absorbing raw natural energy, so its clear that preta absorbed too much senjutsu, not just natural energy
so the excuse of preta absorbing some senjutsu, doesnt mean that samehada is not affected by senjutsu at all,
especially when
You must be registered for see links
, (top panel), meaning that FRS would slice it open before it even hopes to absorb it, annd 2 COR would blow an enormous hole in it, making it much easier for naruto to seperate it from kisame and finish him off, hell samehada gets affected after absorbing even a tiny portion of chakra,
it absorbing alot of senjutsu chakra would make matters much worse, when it obviously cant control chakra blended with natural energy, thus iit gets turned to frog,
Again, your entire argument is based on waterdome, when you have yet to address how kisame even survives before forming it, and when its OOC for Kisame to just start off the battle with that, when hes likely to get outnumbered through summons, outclassed by naruto and his SM clones (3 is more than enough for him), and restrained by frog call,
all before he even forms the dome,
as for kisame outnumbering naruto, thats clearly not the case,
when naruto has 3 boss summons to beat up the sharks, as well as a single SM clone eradicating any of the waterclones that kisame may attempt to form, seeing how
You must be registered for see links
which naruto can decipher here anyways, and overwhelm the real kisame just fine as for waterdome, naruto doesnt need to land a hit on kisame, all he needs to do is evade it, which he most certainly can, seeing how the dome would be nowhere near the size that kisame formed against bee, as this time he wont have a ton of bijuu chakra to form it
you are also overrating the water dome abit too much, when naruto certainly has the means to coutner it,
first of all, naruto can swim towards the top of the dome,
the dome itself only travels on kisames horizontal motion, unless you think that the waterdome can fly, which clearly isnt the case, as naruto uses his clones as a diversion, and swims towards the top of the dome and jump out of it,
furthermore naruto can still form more than 3 clones, the only problem is that it interferes with his SM, which he doesnt really need inside the dome, so he can just revert back to base
with that being said, naruto uses
You must be registered for see links
and completely spreads himself out to comfortably evade the waterdome, kisame using his weak water clones or sharks isnt cutting it here either, before naruto evades the dome, reenters SM, and massacres kisame
Never said oil counters water dome, only said its a viable option to slow some smaller suitons down,
normal suitons are still non factor when they are not landing, or damaging him here,
and yeah i will address WD and GSB later on as well
CQC was referred to in a dry environment, so yeah he is definitely superior
Umm since when did samehada react to bee?, since when did samehada have any reflexive feats at all?
Kisame weilds the blade, and uses it accordingly based on his own reactions, not samehada,
the blade only absorbs chakra,
if someone such as kaguya uses samehada to absorb juubitos chakra,
then does that mean that samehada alone now has the reflexes to react to juubito?
no it doesnt
again, not a counter to anything i said, when everything was stated to a combat on ground, not the waterdome
naruto doesnt need to use Frog Kata under water, but even if he uses it, it certainly is still working
all it does is use
You must be registered for see links
regardless of where he actually is, the attack beiing slowed doesnt mean that kisame can perciieve it, so the moment he attempts to come near a clone he gets pulverised by frog kata,
the attack is certainly landing when
You must be registered for see links
and when he can use
You must be registered for see links
, to ensure that kisame gets properly hit, whilst the real gets away,, which is the only important thing for naruto
kisame isnt just instantly getting back up from frog kata either,
when narutos sheer strength one shotted shurado, despite the path being durable enough to survive
You must be registered for see links
, as well as a
You must be registered for see links
,and still survived to an extent that he was even able to
You must be registered for see links
this just goes to show how powerful SM narutos hits are,
and with access to clones that can use this to delay kisame well enough, as well as summons that can still operate under water just fine, means that naruto can escape the waterdome, even through this strategy
and Please explain to me why naruto cant react to Kisame?, his SM perception and reflexes allowed him to react and counterattack even the THird raikage, who is on par with a speedster like V1 Ay,
and when Naruto outright blitzed Shurado from a distance of over 30m?
not to mention that even base bee was reacting to kisame, he was just unable to evade his blows,
hell even
You must be registered for see links
, so naruto getting blitzed by kisame is a joke furthermore, kisame being faster than naruto underwater doesnt mean that naruto cant escape it,
when he has more than enough numbers to divert kisames attention and break him free
The bone itself didnt pierce shit,
kisame only absorbed bees chakra,and that was due to the sheer reason to allow sabu and ponta to escape, nothing else happened,
if anyone that has the range advantage, its naruto here, when
You must be registered for see links
hell a Frog Kata that didnt even land on preta still one shotted it,
and i have already established narutos strength in SM,
narutos mid/long range attacks, such as FRS, summons, frog call, rasengan barrages, are also well above most of kisames arsenal which is entirely based on chakra absorption from CQC
How is water prison being formed inside the waterdome?
how is it even valid when kisame cant decipher the clone from the original
and kisame would have to place his arm to be able to maintain the jutsu,
so in all honesty, he is just focusing most of his time to focus on a clone, whilst the real just gets away, or the 3 boss toads can just attack him during that time, as the field is not effecting them
A
You must be registered for see links
, no way in hell is it powerful enough to match a SM clone, regardless of where it is, furthermore, as i have stated above, naruto doesnt need to use SM in-order to counter the waterdome, (if kisame is lucky enough to even form it before getting killed),
he can revert to base, and form over 1000 clones, to completely divert kisames attention and escape the dome,
Kisame obviously wont be attempting to merge right from the get go,
if he is engaged by naruto in CQC at a dry location, then he certainly gets his sword taken away, and killed
and kisame merging with samehada is not troubling naruto at all, only waterdome is which naruto can counter anyways
never said that naruto uses them inside the dome, he can however use them in a dry battlefield, since kisame is no sensor without merging
good, that means that a properly landed FRS would one shot kisame and completely shatter his chakra network
Its not about the amount of chakra,
its about the fact that samehada would still take damage from the attack before it absorbs,
so the rasengan blows a hole on it,
not to mention that with naruto having superior speed and reflexes, means that he would land his rasengan on kisame, not his blade
Kisame isnt just tanking and healing from every damage if samehada hasnt absorbed enough chakra,
You must be registered for see links
if the blade doesnt have enough chakra then he doesnt get repaired, its as simple as that and why would naruto fire off an FRS directly towards GSB, despite having full intel on the jutsu?
naruto can still evade the shark through his shunshin, and with toads and clones here, he can simply use them to attack kisame to disrupt his control over the jutsu,
frog call can also restrain him and allow naruto to slam him with FRS,
never said that it was ''unable'' to absorb the katon,
It only absorbed the tiny component of that katon yet it was still affected,
yet that
You must be registered for see links
, meaning that its only wasing kisames time and chakraNeji compared that kisames chakra levels to Part 1 naruto, since he didnt even see part 2 naruto at that point of time
part 2 narutos reserves are obviously on a much higher level than 30% kisame, thats for sure,
and No, the water dome that kisame makes here wont be close to what he made in canon,
unless you think that Kisames own reserves >> Kisame + Ton of Hachibi chakra,
Nope, Kisame absorbed an enormous amount of hachibis chakra to an extent that even the bee was out of it,
here this isnt happening at all, meaning that the dome wont be as big
never said that the dome was small, nor did i ever say that the summons are bigger than it,
however without a ton of bijuu chakra its not going to be anywhere near its size,
hell with only a portion of bijuu chakra,
You must be registered for see links
logic dictates that the size of waterdome isnt going to be anywhere near the level of what kisame formed in canon,
meaning that naruto can counter it alot easier and quicker
Toads are landing a hit on Kisame, if he attempts to attack one of naruto or his clone,
as he would be left wide open for that,
not to mention that whats stopping naruto and his clones to stay hidden within each toad and escape the dome?
where each toad scatters away from each other, and we have kisame unable to get the field advantage on the toads thanks to them being able to breath, and we have kisame unable to attack all toads at a time, or deciphering the real narutos postiion, therefore allowing him to escape
Not sure if serious
Nope,, Naruto making more clones
You must be registered for see links
, otherwise he can make as many as he wants, which is why SM isnt even needed here, he turns to base, forms multi shadow clones and gets them to scatter all around the dome to evade it,
kisames waterclones are only weakening kisame here, and effecting his control over the waterdome, and his sharks are not overwhelming shit, when boss summons alone can eradicate them just fine, and when naruto can also use his clones to fire off rasengans to eradicate any oncoming obstacle,
and ensuring that the real evades it
see above
The same way Pein saw naruto and his own path inside the toads mouth,? despite pein having shared vision amongst themselves?
and this is just getting ridiculous now,
kisame is either maintaining the dome, or hes using GSB,
he is not using both at the same time,
hell, kisame using even waterclones and 1000 sharks whilst maintainign the dome seems really iffy, when he didnt use that in canon either,
and as stated above, naruto doesnt need SM to counter the WD,
he can counter it in base just fine, seeing how it allows naruto to form alot more diversions which is all he needs to coutner the waterdome
You must be registered for see links
here naruto can form even more due to having superior reserves and mastery over the jutsu,
so no way in hell is kisame getting to the real naruto with a smaller dome, and with naruto having several clones with each of them being capable to use rasengans to overcome any obstacle as well as his summons that can operate, thus allowing the real one and some other clones (most likely) to get away safe and sound,
Again, the bold needs alot of proof, since it clearly doesnt make any sense at all,
GSB would divert his control over the dome completely,
and even if we go by your strategy, its still not helping kisame at all,
him using something like GSB on a mere summon, just makes this even easier for naruto to escape,
being faster doesnt just mean everything,
waterdome is designed for 1v1 combat, however with naruto increasing his numbers exponentially, just makes this impossible for kisame to land a hit on the real
kisame being able to attack with some sharks is good and all, but they are still not cutting it here, when a single rasengan eradicates multiple of them in one shot, or when a summon can guard naruto and his clones and takes out the sharks just fine,
whilst the other summons and clones divert kisamehadas attention away from the real,
and allow naruto to get out of the dome
Based on? he can be on the
You must be registered for see links
furthermore, with buntas leaps, he can be above kisame and summon a toad such as gamahiro or gamaken right on kisame thus disrupting his control over GSB and ending iit right there
Again, kisame using waterdome and GSB is still a no limits fallacy,
he isnt using 2 of his biggest moves at the same time, he eiither uses Waterdome, or he uses GSB its simple as that,
furthermore, i dont remember FCD requiring handseals? that was only in the anime
and a summoning jutsu is still alot faster than kisame forming GSB,
its not being used underwater, never said it was,
kisame isnt using GSB whilst under the waterdome either, he can only do one thing at a time,
[/QUOTE]
Hirudora had to go directly through GSB,
You must be registered for see links
, meaning that kisame didnt take anywhere near the full force of the jutsu, frog call doesnt need to do that, since kisame would still be able to hear sound just fine, meaning that he gets caught and restrained,
Since when can samehada absorb a sound genjutsu?
No, it doesnt have a long start-up time at all,
all it involves is the toads basically speaking,
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
this isnt happeening underwater,
and on ground naruto certainly can shunshin out of it,, and attack him head on,
SM clones >>>>>>>>>> water clones,
Base Clones >> Sharks,,
so they arent matched at all
Gamabunta fought shukaku head on, and managed to even hold down the kyuubi for a short amount of time,
no way in hell are toads being taken out by mere sharks,
and Kisame using GSB on mere toads is just a waste of his time, when he would be a sitting duck for naruto to attack
How is it intercepted when kisame isnt even forming the GSB on time before the jutsu lands on him and eradicates him
You must be registered for see links
, which were
You must be registered for see links
, kisame weaving signs and forming GSB to intercept FRS on time, is just laughable
not to mention that why would naruto even bother firring an FRS right at GSB. when he knows that itll absorb the jutsu,
he can also just use transformation on the FRS to divert kisames attention whilst the real one slams him down with a rasengan or a frog kata from behind, since the jutsu only covers the front side of the user
--if kisame increases his distance on ground, then pretty much his entire moveset with samehada is moot,and hes not landing a single hit on naruto who on the other hand can easily shorten the distance and kill kisame
--If he remains at a distance in the waterdome, then naruto can evade the WD more easily so either way, a long range combat is not hellping kisame
it may be able to absoorb a normal sized rasengan, but anything above blows a hole on it,, and seperates it from kisame, thus taking him out
1000+ base clones being scattered and taking out weak waterclones, + summonings taking out the sharks, = naruto escaping the waterdome
frog call being faster than GSB, and restraining kisame = GSB not being fired
naruto having the means to use his diversions to attack kisame as well as having the speed/reflexes to evade the jutsu = GSB not one shotting shit
Samehada taking the damage from naruto and being seperated + kisame being obliterated by frog katas = samehada not absorbing shit,
one FRS alone is far too much for it,
You must be registered for see links
, and completely sever kisames chakra networkNope, kisame is not winning this,
certainly not comfortably
Last edited:
Nothing to say here.
What, you thought I was going to go easy on you and not use the water dome right off the bat? Saying it's out of character is irrelevant and it's a weak argument (and it's also false). Kisame has full intel, he knows the water dome is the safest and most efficient way to win the battle, why would he wait to use it especially if he has intel on naruto's speed? He only didn't use it right away against Bee since Bee was engaging him in swordplay and close combat preventing Kisame from using it
Perhaps I didn't make myself clear. Kisame doesn't have to fully form the water dome before Ma and Pa use Frog Call, he merely has to use
You must be registered for see links
and start spitting out the suiton. Which, he will easily manage to do before Naruto even tells Ma/Pa to use Frog Call. So even if he gets caught by the soundwaves, paralysis can't stop him from continuing to spit it out. Then the shockwave of water hits Ma and Pa and knocks them back and they won't even be able to draw breath to continue to use Frog Call, in fact they will just drown faster from using all their breath on that jutsu.You're seriously saying Naruto is going to blitz Kisame from 40 meters before he can use one hand seal? If your argument is Naruto blitzes or Frog Call GG then this is going to be very easy to counter.
We can see that actually alot of time had elapsed. In the
You must be registered for see links
Naruto notices Tsunade is unprotected and starts moving towards her from his location atop Gamkichi since we can see movement lines in that panel (unless you're saying Naruto was just standing there that whole time). Then Tsunade and Deva talk to each other for a few seconds, during which Naruto is still moving towards Tsunade meaning that by the time Asura attacks Naruto had already traversed that distance, either in part or in full. Regardless, that doesn't seem to be that great of a distance anyway considering Gamakichi
You must be registered for see links
in a single panel, and the actual distance between them is never clearly shown.Naruto has to tell Gamabunta to do jump first since the toad won't attack on his own accord without being given instructions first. Honestly I was hoping you'd have a better argument than Kisame getting blitzed.
I've already explained Kisame doesn't need to fully form the water dome before this happens he just needs to start forming it since Frog Call won't prevent him from spitting it out.
It's not a genjutsu at all.
Already explained this, he doesn't need to form the water dome he just needs to start spitting it out, and Frog Call isn't a genjutsu.
You must be registered for see links
shockwave.
You must be registered for see links
shockwave. The Viz name of the technique is literally called "Water Style: Super Exploding Water Shockwave". It doesn't matter if Naruto or his toads can dodge the initial shockwave since they will get caught in the dome's AoE anyway and I only brought it up to counter your point of Naruto closing the distance while Kisame is paralyzed by frog call since the wave would knock Naruto back if he runs up to Kisame like it
You must be registered for see links
.I've already countered this, you're repeating yourself.
Okay but it's obvious that Samehada can absorb very high amounts of senjutsu chakra since Preta absorbed a Chou Oodama Rasengan, Goemon, and a katon against Jiraiya and didn't undergo petrification, and against Naruto it absorbed a FRS and
You must be registered for see links
without undergoing petrification and Samehada (which possesses massive chakra levels) can absorb large amounts of senjutsu chakra before the nature energy creates an imbalance and nature energy overwhelms it.You have yet to tell me how Naruto prevents Kisame from forming the water dome.
Three boss summons aren't beating up the sharks. Sharks are way faster and toads' movements are slowed down underwater, I fail to see how the toads will even land a hit. Nor do I see how a single SM clone eradicates all of Kisame's water clones when taijutsu isn't working underwater and the clones can merge with their clone copies of Samehada and absorb the clone's chakra everytime they make contact with it. The water clones can surround Naruto's clones, outnumber them, overwhelm them, stab them with bones, and trap them in water prisons while summoned sharks provide assistance in knocking them around and restraining them.
Not sure if serious. How does Naruto evade the water dome? The aoe will be way to large for Naruto to run away from it when Bee wasn't fast enough to outrun it and easily got caught up in the aoe. Even if Naruto avoids it by some miracle, Kisame can just swim after Naruto and since the dome moves with him and Kisame's speed underwater > Naruto's speed, Naruto is getting caught, Naruto doesn't stand a chance at avoiding it.
Scans for the bold?
If Naruto makes more than three clones they will
You must be registered for see links
and the clones won't be able to control the nature energy and will end up undergoing frog petrification and since Naruto experiences everything his clones experience,
You must be registered for see links
Okay oil still isn't doing anything regardless.
Except this won't be a dry environment since there is literally nothing Naruto can do to prevent Kisame from using the water dome, nor does Naruto have any way of evading it.
I already posted the scans but I'll post them again
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
. Master Kin even notes how the sword moved on its own. Your statement about Samehada not being able to move or react is simply untrue, it's a living organism shown capable of every type of movement.No because with Naruto's movements being slowed down the force of the impact is also reduced so Naruto's hits will be much weaker and Kisame can land a mutual strike with Naruto, either with his superhuman strength or with his bones to pierce him. Where Naruto would take damage and get his chakras absorbed on contact, Kisame can tank the attack and heal from it since Samehada healed him from Bee's V2 Skeleton lariat which blew out his entire chest cavity and is a much stronger attack than anything frog kata has to offer. Of course Kisame will be able to perceive it, I see absolutely no reason why he can't since Samehada's sensing and reflexes on top of his own would allow him to perceive Naruto's movements especially underwater where Naruto's attacks are slowed down and have reduced momentum. While Kisame can't necessarily dodge Naruto's attacks every time he can still exchange hits and land a mutual strike which he will tank unlike Naruto who would get weakened and lose up to six tails' worth of chakra every time they make contact since Samehada has shown capable of absorbing that amount with a single touch.
This is irrelevant when Asura Path doesn't have healing like Kisame does and has inferior durability, and also irrelevant when Kisame tanked and healed Bee's lariat which is a much stronger attack than any of Naruto's taijutsu. Also show me a scan of Naruto one shotting Shurado with his sheer strength because I don't remember that happening.
Lol when did I say Kisame would blitz Naruto?
SM clones easily get outnumbered and overwhelmed by sharks which can bite Naruto's arms and legs and restrain him, preventing Naruto or his clones from escaping the dome, or
You must be registered for see links
, holding him off. Naruto would somehow need to outmuscle hundreds of sharks and fend them off, then swim to the edge of the dome and break out all before he runs out of air, which is not happening since the exertion of fending off all those sharks would cause him to run out of breath even faster. Even better Kisame can just use clones to form water prisons around Naruto and his clones which would immobilize them and prevent them from escaping the water dome for good. Kisame doesn't even actually have to kill these clones, he just has to stall for time by distracting the clones with sharks preventing Naruto from continuing to swim and escape. Naruto will have a hard time escaping the water dome even if Kisame remains stationary since it has a large aoe and we have zero feats of Naruto's speed underwater so it's likely he would run out of breath before he reaches the edge, especially when the effort of swimming and fighting off sharks would make him run out of breath even quicker. Naruto can't cross the radius of the dome before he runs out of breath, especially with sharks hounding him and holding him back, you're overestimating Naruto's lung capacity. Heck, even Master Kin ran out of breath when he has the lung capacity to
You must be registered for see links
.The bone quite obviously did pierce through Bee's V1 cloak, I have a
You must be registered for see links
to prove it. Naruto's strength still isn't enough since Samehada will heal any frog kata attacks with relative ease unless Naruto lands a direct hit on Kisame's head or neck.All of which are quite useless since Kisame can counter them.
1. Why the hell can't it be? Kisame has already used suitons underwater like
You must be registered for see links
as well as
You must be registered for see links
2. He doesn't need to decipher between them since he can target them all.
3. He can use water clones to use water prison for him
Boss toads aren't even landing a hit on Kisame so it's useless for them to attack.
First of 10% power is actually a lot if we're talking about Kisame, and each clone has access to its clone copy of Samehada, with which it can merge and share chakra with. Water clones aren't going to be matching SM clones in close combat but they can still be used to form water prisons around Naruto and his clones after the sharks come to bite Naruto's arms and legs and hold him in place, allowing the clone to make the water prison.
If you think base Naruto stands a chance against Kisame you need to reevaluate. I've already explained why Naruto forming more clones just results in the SM clones at Mt Myoboku being unable to control nature energy and undergoing petrification, which means the original Naruto does too. If Naruto wants to revert to base he first has to summon the clones to the battlefield and then extinguish them, then wait until he runs out of Sage Mode since he can't go out of SM at will IIRC. He is never going to successfully summon the clones since the paper in the scroll will get soggy and disentegrate underwater or sharks can simply be used to seperate Naruto from his scroll.
Even if he does revert to base and escape the water dome, then what? Naruto is screwed since he won't have access to his Sage powers and he would be outclassed by Kisame in every category, nor is Kisame going to sit still and let Naruto enter SM again.
He won't be engaged by naruto in CQC at a dry location since he will turn it to a wet location before Naruto can even reach him.
This is irrelevant since the battlefield won't be dry after Kisame uses his dome and Kisame
You must be registered for see links
. There will be no properly landed FRS.
Samehada would only take damage from the attack before it absorbs because it's too much chakra to absorb, example being V2 Bee's cloak. That's not the case with Rasengan since Kisame can absorb that amount of chakra just fine. Samehada has never ever taken damage from an attack unless there was too much chakra in the attack for Samehada to absorb. And the fact that Kisame
You must be registered for see links
means that with Samehada's added powers any rasengan variant is absorbed with no trouble.Kisame of all people is not running out of chakra. If Samehada's chakra is not enough for some reason the blade can just use his own chakra to heal him.
@Underline Kisame would fire off GSB while Naruto is forming FRS, if Naruto doesn't fire off an FRS then Kisame will never get hit with it. Also Naruto can't swim fast enough to avoid GSB. This isn't on land since Kisame will have used his water dome by this point.
It disliked the heat in the katon, it wasn't negatively effected at all.
Completely irrelevant, I was only talking about the jutsu in terms of Kisame's chakra capacity, I never said Kisame would use that same jutsu. In Part 1 Neji saw the Kyubi's massive chakra hence why he compared it to Kisame's, even if Naruto's base reserves have increased, the Kyubi's chakra didn't increase. So he saw Part 1 Naruto's base reserves (not a lot) + Kyubi's massive chakra (a lot), and then compared that to 30% Kisame's reserves supporting the statements that Kisame has chakra on par with bijuu hence his given name "the tailless tailed beast".
Seriously? That's implying Kisame used all the chakra he had for that water dome when that's obviously not the case (seeing as how Kisame already used chakra to heal his chest cavity.) Kisame already has his own chakra reserves which are quite massive and his chakra feats show that he could probably replicate the water dome he used against Bee on a similar level even if not quite as big. Kisame was literally called the Tailless tailed beast because he had
You must be registered for see links
. He was spitting out lakes in a desert with 30% chakra and summoned over a thousand sharks even without Samehada's added chakra. Sure the two V1 cloaks he absorbed from Bee were a decent amount of chakra but it's much much less than Kisame's full reserves and only a small percent of Kisame's total power. You're going to have to prove to me that the dome's size will significantly be reduced, because Kisame will still be able to make a dome sizable enough to easily catch Naruto and his toads in its aoe and prevent Naruto from escaping. Prior to Kisame spitting out the water dome Bee wasn't out of it at all, and only got his V1 cloak absorbed twice and his V2 cloak absorbed to the point where it was reduced back to V1. That's a lot of chakra, but not that much for Kisame.
Again, Kisame has shown the feats which prove him capable of forming a large water dome on his own, the bijuu chakra he absorbed is only a fraction of his total chakra. That scan you showed me wasn't just a portion of bijuu chakra, it was quite a lot of it, Naruto even states that he used it all up at once. While the dome may be smaller than the one used against Bee, it's ridiculous to say it won't be anywhere near that level when we're talking about a chakra monster like Kisame.
Toads still are much, much slower than Kisame and if they can't land a hit on Deva Path on dry land, they can't land a hit on Kisame in Shark Mode in the water dome where their movements are getting slowed down a lot by the water.
He can kill the toads with Daikodan or summon sharks to swim after them and peck their eyeballs out then swarm them in a feeding frenzy. He increases his numbers so he can attack them all at once. Anyway, hiding in a toad's mouth is a bad idea for Naruto anyway since the toad's mouth would be filled with water meaning if Naruto runs out of air he will be trapped in a dark, wet cave and won't be able to swim anywhere. Even if Naruto does escape the water dome with this strategy - then what? The moment Kisame figures out the real Naruto he will just swim after Naruto and catch him within the dome again since the dome moves with Kisame.
Post a scan of Naruto swimming.
I've already explained why reverting to base isn't going to be easy (or even possible?) for Naruto and why it's a very bad idea for him to do it in the first place. Clone spam is only throwing away chakra and doesn't help Naruto evade getting caught by the dome in the slightest, sharks make quick work of the clones in an underwater environment and Naruto no longer has SM durability to keep himself safe from the sharks' hungry jaws.
Why would making water clones weaken Kisame? Naruto nor his clones won't be able to outmuscle dozens of sharks which can
You must be registered for see links
and swim to the edge of the water dome before running out of breath. Sharks can knock Naruto around and bite his arms and legs to restrain him, giving each clone an opening to form a water prison around Naruto and immobilize him, ensuring that Naruto nor his clones are going anywhere.Boss summons don't eradicate sharks, in fact it's the other way around. Schools of fish swarm the toads en masse and have the speed advantage as well as the number advantage (one thousand vs three) so if some are killed then it doesn't matter. The sharks can target the toads' eyeballs and bite them and blind them, I'm not seeing how toads would be able to kill all the sharks before they get killed themselves.
...See above.
I'm sure the fact that Ma used a dust cloud to break the Pains' link of vision helped. Not to mention it's pitch black inside a toad's mouth so shared vision is useless. No reason why Kisame can't see Naruto go inside the toad's mouth, unless Naruto can make himself go invisible or can create some sort of smokescreen.
His chakra feats say otherwise. He used 1,000 sharks and GSB when he was in a weakened state and didn't even have Samehada as assistance, water clones don't even take much chakra, GSB was never implied or stated to be an especially chakra-taxing technique, no reason why he can't use both water dome and GSB. If necessary he can adjust the size of the dome as he sees fit to preserve chakra or absorb Naruto's kyubi chakra for an extra boost. Kisame's reserves are insane, unless he's spamming Daikodan left and right I can't see him run out of chakra against Naruto, ever.
Those "diversions" aren't diversions at all when Kisame can simply summon sharks to kill most or all the clones (Naruto too if the shark targets him by chance, then base Naruto has to deal with a shark underwater) and reduce Naruto's numbers, and the rest of the clones eventually die by drowning. Since kage bunshins divide chakra evenly this would be an enormous waste of chakra on Naruto's part and he won't even be able to enter SM again since you need high chakra reserves to balance the nature energy and enter SM in the first place. Let's say Naruto reverts to base and spams clones, then escapes the water dome since Kisame can't tell which clone is real. What's his situation? He's now in base, he just wasted a lot of chakra with those clones, the clones are gone now and Kisame knows he's the real Naruto, and the water dome is still up. All Kisame has to do is swim after Naruto and since the dome moves with him Naruto will get caught in it again.
Naruto can only potentially escape the water dome if he somehow reverts to base and creates hundreds of clones to act as diversions, which results in the clones getting picked off and Kisame swimming after him and just trapping Naruto in the dome again.
Where's proof for the bold? Kisame has the chakra feats, you're going to need to prove to me that he can't use both water dome and GSB.
Water dome isn't designed for 1v1 combat, that's just the way it was used against Bee. With Naruto only being capable of making 3 clones in SM, he gets vastly overwhelmed and it's suicide + a massive waste of chakra for him to revert to base and spam clones.
That's a horrible example, Minato teleported to the Kyubi first then summoned a toad on top of him, he didnt summon a toad on top of him from across the village, you can even see Minato standing on top of the toad. Never in the manga has anything been summoned from a distance away from the caster, and every single time FCD has ever been used it showed the summoner being directly above the summoned toad. You serious about Bunta leaping above Kisame then Naruto summoning a toad on top of him all before Kisame can execute a GSB? Especially when the summoning jutsu requires multiple hand seals whereas Daikodan only needs one, there are so many things wrong with this argument... the toad wouldn't even crush Kisame, it would only slowly sink to the bottom giving Kisame ample time to dodge...
Learn what a no limits fallacy is, because using both water dome and GSB isn't one as Kisame actually has the chakra feats to support it. Yes FCD needs hand seals, it's literally summoning a toad on top of a target, thats what FCD is, multiple hand seals are needed for the summoning jutsu... what is this about it being a lot faster than forming GSB? Kisame literally only needs one seal to form daikodan
You must be registered for see links
, and after formation it requires
You must be registered for see links
, which matched Hirudora's speed, Naruto successfully executing FCD before Kisame uses Daikodan is a jokeYes you did say it would be used underwater since you listed it as a counter to GSB which can only be used underwater. Kisame can use GSB inside his water dome until you can prove otherwise.
Uh, it's the soundwaves themselves that have to reach Kisame and paralyze him, if they have to push their way through a ton of water their paralyzing effect will be greatly weakened by the water just like how Hirudora was weakened. Not to mention sound is muted underwater...furthermore using frog call is suicide since Ma/Pa can't draw breath underwater and if they use up all their breath on frog call they have no air in their lungs and they die in seconds.
Since when was Frog Call a sound genjutsu?
Ok but Daikodan doesnt have a long start up either though you make it out to be and frog call won't be effective for reasons i've already stated.
Yes it is happening underwater since GSB can't even be used on dry land so Kisame won't attack a target on dry land with Daikodan.
Not in an underwater environment.
1000 sharks >>> 3 toads
sharks have superior speed and the toads can't take them all out or prevent their eyes from getting blinded when the sharks swarm them and bite their eyes out. Kisame can suck the toads dry of chakra as well and kill them
Very wrong. GSB takes one hand seal to form and another to fire, whereas Naruto needs to form two shadow clones and have them start spinning chakra in the palm of his hand to form FRS, and then he has to throw it. You think Naruto can create two kage bunshins, have them spin chakra to form FRS, then throw it, all before Kisame forms GSB? You are reaaaaaaaally underrating GSB's speed when it has equal speed to Hirudora.
Using transformation on a FRS only works if there's a smokescreen in the mix, otherwise Kisame just sees Naruto transform the clone into a FRS and knows it's a decoy. Naruto isn't somehow swimming behind Kisame and slamming a rasengan down on him while he is still executing FRS either without Kisame noticing.
Why would Kisame ever stay on ground? What motive would he have for that? Even if Naruto somehow escapes the water dome, he can't seperate Kisame from the dome or force Kisame into combat on dry land. To kill Kisame Naruto will either have to kill him from a distance on dry ground (if he can even escape the water dome in the first place), or he will have to go underwater and fight at close/mid range in there.
If Kisame stays at long range, how will Naruto kill him?
Lol no, it doesn't. Unless a rasengan has more chakra than a V2 cloak, it is easily absorbed.
-Naruto can't even revert to base
-Water clones > base shadow clones, they can merge with their clone copies of Samehada and are far superior than naruto's shadow clones when underwater
-You've got it mixed up, sharks actually blind toads
-You seem to think Naruto's speed underwater = Bee's speed underwater though that's clearly not the case as Bee was dragging along a giant raccoon with him while swimming through the water. In actuality Naruto's speed underwater is very slow if he can even swim, and he easily gets outraced and devoured by several dozen sharks in their own marine environment
Frog Call won't work underwater for reasons already explained so it interrupting GSB is a joke. And no, Naruto can't swim fast enough to dodge GSB.
Now put this in an underwater context and realize how wrong this is. Kisame getting seperated from Samehada, when he can literally fuse with it? Frog katas, which are tanked and healed, and won't even be as fast or strong with the water pressure slowing down its movements? FRS destroying Samehada, when it won't even make contact with Kisame?
Kisame wins.
Last edited:
Well I have nothing to say here, except that youre wrong on 2 things,
1. Starting the entiire battle with water dome, is certainly OOC for Kisame, and its also true seeing how he would need a lot of outside chakra source to be able to maintain and use a water dome anywhere near the size for it to be powerful enough, he didnt use it at the start against Bee, because he needed his bijuu chakra, and him not initiating a single battle with the WD also indicates that its OOC,
the logic you're using implies that Madara would immediately start his battle against the gokage with his PS, since thats his most efficient way of beating them. was that really the case? I wonder,
2. Water dome is not an efficient way for Kisame to win at all, its designed for 1v1 combats, and with naruto having the ability to create clones, and have boss toads that can operate under the dome perfectly, means that its not helping him
Ma and Pa would be right next to Naruto, so only them getting caught makes no sense,
moreover, the suiton isnt instantly forming into the entire dome, when
You must be registered for see links
, close the distance and use frog call, before kisame does shit, and with the other 2 boss toads here, just makes this easier,
and @Bold - Lol are you for real,
Kisame gets paralysed = kisame gets paralysed,
he wont be able to move once he hears the sound, meaning that hes a sitting duck for naruto to kill
Where have i ever used the word ''Blitz'', please refrain from imaginary assumptions,
but what I, and what logic dictates is that the speed of sound >>>>>>>> kisame merging and forming a miniature WD
Lol, the denial is strong in this one if you believe that shurado wasnt blitzed, or if you believe that this speed feet is not affecting kisame
the time that elapsed between shurado reaching tsunade and naruto blitzing the path was a matter of mere seconds
> Deva talks to tsunade
You must be registered for see links
> Pein gets Shurado to attack,
You must be registered for see links
> Naruto crosses the distance and bitzes him, obliterating him with one hit,,
You must be registered for see links
> Once the path is blitzed, naruto tells gamakichi to get tsundae to safety,
You must be registered for see links
your entire premise thats highlighted in the bold is completely debunked in the next scan,
You must be registered for see links
meaning that naruto travelled that diistance and blitzed the path in time, ALL ON HIS OWN
and Lol you really need to proof that naruto was moving all that time before shurado even attempted to attack, because that is just ridiculous,
> Naruto saw shurado attacking tsunade
> He travelled that distance in time, and blitzed the path,
Excuse me
You must be registered for see links
, so yeah, its still very impressive, and the distance also clearly shown in the manga, thus certainly implying that narutos speed and reflexes >>> kisames
and gamakichi (who isnt anywhere near buntas level here) being able to cross the distance with only one leap just shows that the toad summons are extremely mobile and proves that kisame is getting frog called, before he forms WD
> Naruto says Jump, bunta jumps,
> thats all there is to it,
and why wont the toads attack the only enemy that they are facing? why exactly would they need to be instructed to take down their enemy?
if its the other way around, sure
but please, this is just getting ridiculous
Learn what blitz actually means, because what ur saying here just implies that you didnt read what i said,
Kisame getting caught by sound before he merges with samehada and forms WD =/= him getting blitzed,
Once kisame hears the sound, he gets paralysed, you didnt explain, you just said it without any basis or proof, so its invalid,
meaning that frog call will paralyse him preventt him from spitting it out,
unless you're telling me that he can somehow resist the affects of physical paralysis? or unless you think that forming suiton does not require any physical movement?
Its sound, and samehada is not absorbing sound, sound =/= chakra
thats also one of the more absurd things in your post
Him spitting out some water is not doing shit here, when the toads can either evade it with utmost ease, or jump high enough to close the distance within a leap and take him out,
Technique having the word ''shockwave'' in its name doesnt mean that its shockwave is anything worth mentioning,
You must be registered for see links
doesnt have anything worth mentioning, hell there was no shockwave at all, as Bee and ponta were only affected once they were under the suiton, unfortunately for Kisame, naruto and the toads can leap out of its height and attack kisame head on,
or they can simply leap away from the suiton, so they are not caught
and as for the second scan that you showed, Lol
You must be registered for see links
let alone the so called ''shockwave'' which obviously didnt do shit, i suggest you bring a better argument then ''water shockwaves'' stopping naruto
because no way in hell are they affecting someone with far greater mobility and durability to chars such as tenten
Fiirst of all, you need to proof how much of a water dome is kisame even forming here,
because without any external load of hachibi chakra, the amount of water that kisame can form would be horse shit infront of what he did in canon, and wont even be worth mentioning, as even he would be drained, since samehada feeds on the users chakra, and without alot of chakra, kisame is not doing shit
and to have a sufficient water dome, kisame needs to approach naruto in CQC or fight him on ground to form a valid dome, and with that being said, he gets raped during the process,
and @Bold - Lol, you mean
You must be registered for see links
, the toads have already showed us that they can leap several meters high,,
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
the initial suiton is not doing shit to them, nor are the toads getting caught, before kisame gets immobilised and killed
and the starting distance argument isnt helping you either, when a single leap of bunta managed to cover over 50m
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
so like i said above, naruto and the toads either leap towards kisame to immediatey close the distance and attack/immobilise him, or naruto and the toads simply evade the suiton itself,
thus making the entire efforts of kisame useless, as having a waterdome with just himself in it, is only wasting his time and chakra
Based on what? Preta?
Pretas absorption abilities >>>> Samehadas, in every way shape and form
so youre going to need proof on that,,
Again, Preta absorbing senjutsu chakra =/= Samehada absorbing senjutsu chakra,
samehada has already showed us that when it absorbs chakra, it gets affected by its type, quality, quantity and properties, alot more than preta does
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
and the sword obviously being unable to control nature energy/senjutsu, means that it gets turned to frog alot quicker and easier than preta
not to mention that
You must be registered for see links
the whole nature energy argument isnt cutting it either, since
You must be registered for see links
meaning that the nature energy was already getting balanced with narutos chakra, thus yielding to senjutsu chakra which was getting absorbed,
leading to preta getting turned to frog,
what makes your entire premise even more flawed is that it contradicts your entire location argumment that you have, indicating that you agree that kisame would need to absorb some chakra, meaning that he needs to fight on ground, which as established and even admitted by yourself, results in kisame getting wrecked
Youre repeating yourself over and over again, despite the fact that the burden of proof is on you to explain how Forming WD and merging with samehada is quicker then sound,
but i will explain again, in a summary,
Naruto gets his toads to jump right behind kisame and evade the suiton, and through the diversions they can also attack kisame in that time,
seeing how all ma and pa really need to do is basicallly speak and kisame gets immobilised,
helll naruto can also form an FRS and throw it right at kisame, which is just a GG, as it travels much much faster than kisames suiton, and has similar formation speed to his jutsu as well, making it a valid counter
not to mention, that kisame doesnt even have the reflexes to physically react to something
You must be registered for see links
the
You must be registered for see links
despite him having the sharingan precog, to aid himso with that being said, kisame gets killed,
another thing that naruto can do to stop this from happening, is to summoon a toad right on kisames head with FCD,
he gets slammed down, restrained and injured (let alone form WD), giving naruto plenty of time to finish him off
Why arent the summons beating up the sharks? when bunta alone had the means to combat shukaku
and as far as im concerned, Shukaku >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sharks
You must be registered for see images
they wield
You must be registered for see links
that are
You must be registered for see links
, and these toads are
You must be registered for see links
in size whether their movements are slowed down or not, with the swords of this size, the sharks are still fodderiised,especially when the toads can operate under water just fine,
and this is all based on, if Kisame would even have the means to form a waterdome large enough to cover 3 bijuus sized toads and everyone else, without any external chakra within his disposal,
furthermore, you need to prove that the sharks are faster than the toads under water, because the toads are excellent swimmers, and without any proof, ur statement holds no value,
first of all, the toads dont even need to attack, and them being able to attack the sharks has already been addressed above and in my previous post
however, all the toads and naruto really need to do is evade the dome which isnt a problem for them at all
moreoever what good is forming the water clones even doing?
without absorbing any chakra prior to forming the WD and without absorbing any chakra, kisame is just depleting himself even more into forming the weak water clones, and only weakening himself even more,
the more clones and the more sharks he attempts to make, the more weakened he gets,
whats also a plausible is that could kisame even do all that you say he can whilst maintaining the WD?
the same WD which i repeat would be lucky to even cover all of the combatants here, due to kisame not draining even a perfect jin
not to mention that as i said in my previous post, if naruto really does get caught in the WD, then he simply reverts to base since he knows that he can form more clones and diversions to get out of the dome,
and Lol at Kisame matching narutos KB with his water clones, when Kisames usage of water clones is piss poor compared to narutos multiple KB, he would be lucky to form even 5 in the waterdome
and forming the water prisons on naruto clones is just dumb, when the real wont be affected at all,
and attempting to absorb their chakra is taking even more time before the clones just get poofed
the more prisons he attempts to form on the clones, the more time and luxury it gives the original to evade the dome which is the only thing that matters for naruto here
through over 1000 base clones spreading out, boss toads, hiding the real under ground prior to kisame forming the dome or hiding within the toads, disrupting kisames WD formation through FCD and Frog Call,
he has a plethora of ways to evade the dome
Waterdome would be nowhere near the size without a ton of bijuu chakra,, or without any absorbed chakra during the fight at all, so naruto would already be at an advantage in that aspect
furthermore bee had no intel whatsoever on the jutsu nor did he have toads who can cover 50m within a single leap, nor could he use the hachibi to form dviersions, and to top it all of, he had to worry about not using the hachibi, and protecting the samurai and the raccoon (or whatever that animal was)
Lol, what the hell is the point with forming a Dome with just kisame in it,
iits only wasting his time and chakra,,
what makes this even worse is that naruto can form clones and spread them out along with some of them with his toads,
so for kisame this is like kicking himself on the balls
Lol you are severely overrating kisame here,
Blitzing shurado from over 20m, is a speed feat thats well above anything kisame has displayed in land or in water,
so if narutos on land then kisame is obviously not catching up, and this whole premise is even worse as addressed above,
and if naruto is in water, then speed isnt the matter when kisame has the probability of 1/1000th at the very most to catch the real
the dome obviously cant fly, so its not travelling vertically, its not that hard to understand that
kisame himself may be able to swim up, but the dome itself would stay stationary if he attempts to do that
the dome
You must be registered for see links
so if kisame really resorts to forming waterclones, then naruto can distinguish them from the original and divert the real kisames attention away from himself and get himself out with ease
swimming at the top of the dome is helpful since kisame would likely to be focused on the clones going there, with the dome itself being stationary on kisames vertical motion, whilst the real naruto gets out,
the boss toads can spread out with some clones as well, making it even harder for kisame, and can guard some clones or the real naruto from any sharks that kisame may attempt to use
I have already stated this, dont see why ur repeating this again
which is why naruto doesnt even need SM to evade the WD, and thats if he gets in it
Lol what is this? it doesnt even take him long to enter SM, its a matter of mere seconds for him,
if the above is really true, then naruto can disperse the clones collecting nature energy, or simply stop them from collecting nature energy, this isnt a problem for him at all,
he knows that he needs the diversions to evade the waterdome, so he goes to base,
and forms well over 1000 clones to evade the dome with utmost ease and waste kisames efforts
It ruins the water,, and damages alll the properties of it,
you have repeated this line about 5 times now, and this has been addressed well over 5 times
i also find it funny that i have established every single counters for a dry and aquatic environment,
yet you completley ignore everything and keep on going on about kisame spamming everything inside the waterdome
despite the fact that his waterdome would be piss poor without a ton of bijuu chakra, and he wont have anywhere near the means to do what you say he can without absorbing alot of narutos chakra (which iis done in a dry environment) and whist maintaining a suiton like waterdome
He dooesnt have healing, but his durability isnt that far off from kisame (without healing), when we have seen iit survive even raikiri so its not irrelevant
not to mention that without a combat in dry environment, kisame wont have much chakra for samehada, so he wont be healing that easily
Lol what? in what world does this look like tanked to you,
lariat obliterated kisame and left him immobilised,
had it not been for samehada absorbing a ton of bees chakra, kisame wouldve been killed the next move
furthermore you need to proof that the gap between bees lariat and SM narutos hits are as vast as you say it is,
because without proof your statement holds no credibility
You must be registered for see links
the denial is seriously strong in this one, whats more is that
You must be registered for see links
through his sheer strength, so yeah SM narutos strength >>>>>>>>>>>>> Kisames
You stated that naruto wont be able to react to Kisame in the dome, which is as funny as it seems
not being able to react = getting blitzed,
in which case you were obviously wrong as stated by yourself
This has already been addressed, over 3 times
naruto doesnt need SM first of all, nor dooes he need the clones collecting the nature energy when he can enter SM rather quickly, so he makes well over a 1000 base clones to completely diivert the real kisames attention away and evade the dome,
sharks hold no value when boss toads alone can take them out as stated above or atleast guard the real naruto from them, till he gets out with ease, the only one he needs to stay away from is the real kisame and the clones and toads make it very easy to break himself out
naruto can also hide himself within the boss toads, where even someone with shared vision like Pein was unable to decipher narutos position until the path itself was taken out and finished
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
And thats what makes it even easier for naruto to evade it,
since naruto can get his toads and clones too get the real kisame welll away from the real naruto and help him evade it within seconds,
the further away kisame gets, the quicker naruto gets out
and whats the point of forming water prisons around clones,
not to mention that kisame cant form anywhere near the amount of water clones to match the amount that naruto could form, so hes only wasting his time with narutos clones, alllowing the real to get out
once naruto gets out, he disperses the clones and kisame has just wasted a good load of his time
This has been addressed as well, it seems that now youre just denying the fact that the dome is nothing special here
--if Kisame manages to stall the clones through water prisons, then he is just allowing the real to get away more effectively since he is too focused on the clones themselves
--if kisame attempts to kill the clones than even that isnt an instant process, so the real can still get away,
--shark summons have already been addressed multiple times,
--if kisame attempts to remain stationary then naruto knows his position (he can distinguish him from the water clones) and then get his own several clones and toads to divert his attention away while he gets away, and the dome itself would obviously be alot smaller therefore helping him get away more quickly
Ninjas tend to have a very good lung capacity based on what we have seen
hell even early part 2 sakura was able to hold her breath and fight sasori for a well amount of time, when he had his poison gas out
not to mention that the dome in which kin was in, was a lot bigger, he had no intel and was right near bee for the most part causing him to struggle
all of these cases are not happening in this battle here
Wrong, read the scan properly,
the
You must be registered for see links
, it didnt pierce shit, hell you can even see that bees shroud was getting taken away from him and right into kisame (middle panel)
and
You must be registered for see links
, so i dont know where you are going with this Lol, feats state that SM Narutos strength is comparable if not superior to bees
not to mention that no way in hell is kisame instantly recovering if he gets hit,
and if he gets hit in land (which he most likely will) he gets put down and then killed by an FRS
if he gets hit in water, then he still gets stopped well enough to allow the real to escape
and @Bold - glad that you agree
no he cant, hence why they are not useless
Its not a suiton nor did i ever state that he cant use the sharks underwater
i stated that him being able to use 1000 sharks, GSB, suiton clones and Waterdome at the same time without absorbing narutos chaakra before hand is fanfic at its finest which it definitely is
Umm, GSB was not used underwater,
You must be registered for see links
and,the water
You must be registered for see links
, kisame himself was still on land, otherwise he wouldve been at a different surface to guy which is obviously incorrectnot to mention that using GSB near a water source, doesnt mean that he can use GSB inside the waterdome as well,
thats just fanfic since waterdome itself requires a heck load of chakra (which he needs from a dry combat) and concentration to maintain,
No he cant,
he cant form anywhere near the water clones as naruto can form his clones, so no amount of water prisons would suffice or prevent the real from escapiing
They dont need to land hits on kisame underwater,
Water clones can only form water prisons on naruto on land if they can catch him,,
which they obviously cant,
as SM naruto is much faster than kisame, meaning that he lands one hit, and kisames clones go poof
and if kisame uses waterprison inside the dome,then even that is meaningless, when he cant catch all the clones with his own, and even if he catches and immobilises some clones,
naruto would have fewer things to worry about therefore helping him escape more effectively,
conclusion: water prisons are not helping
Sigh, when did i say that base naruto would combat kisame underwater?
if hes on ground then he goes SM to rape Kisame, and if hes underwater then he goes base and escapes it with ease,
i have already addressed most of this post here,
naruto doesnt need the clones to collect nature energy, as he can do that very quickly himself, so he makes them poof, and can form his base clones without any problems at all,
the scroll isnt a problem when an opponent like kisame isnt pressuring naruto enough to prevent him from re entering SM, as once that happens, kisame obviously gets raped,
Like i said, the more diversions he has, the easier and quicker it is for naruto to escape,
another important thing is that the real naruto can simply evade the dome before it even happens,
You must be registered for see links
or can get each of his clone on top of a boss toad to spread out, jump and leap away from the suiton therefore flleeing fromm the dome itself, and having kisame a completely wasted effort and chakra, and Lol, kisame is not preventing naruto from entering SM at all when he doesnt have anywhere near the speed to pressure him, boss toads are perfect to allow naruto to enter SM
so are Ma and Pa when they can immobilise him with Frog Call, and allowing a clone to finish kkisame off with a Chou Oodama Rasengan (COR)
Ma and Pa can also use their katon and fuuton respectively to stall kisame long enough for naruto to enter SM, and then rape him
based on? its heavily IC for him to do that, heck thats his way of combat,
you saying that kisame wont fight naruto at CQC is like saying that kisame wont use samehada. Lol
kisame would immediately try to absorb or take away his chakra, because otherwise the scale of his main techniques are not affecting naruto at all,
and in that time, he gets finished off within a few minutes,
and in an aquatic environment, i have established several of narutos counters
Kisame isnt instantly using the dome, so please either provide an argument or stop avoiding most of the points
Lol it will certainly be landed properly,
especially when he cant even physically react to an FRS, seeing how it travels at the same speed as a susanoo arrow
so it lands and kisame gets killed
Nope, its not just about the amount of chakra its absorbing its also about how powerful the attack is as welll,
not seeing why COR is any weaker than a lariat, and it sure as hell has alot of chakra in it,
seeing
You must be registered for see links
. and as feats show, preta >> samehada
You must be registered for see links
, as shown how it actually needed contact to reduce the raiton piercing of the knife the same was the case for Bees lariat, it wasnt only the chakra, but the attack was also powerful enough to blow away kisame and samehada,
You must be registered for see links
and the lariats
You must be registered for see links
so in the case of a rasengan, the samehada would need to be durable enough
You must be registered for see links
and would need to be able to absorb all of it to prevent damage before the rasengan implodes, which most likely isnt the case, as the rasengan blows a hole on samehada, as COR has shown to be really potent not to mention that its senjutsu chakra, so even if it manages to absorb some, it has the risk of getting turned to stone
GSBs absorption =/= Kisames own absorption
If Kisame has used up his own chakra, and if he hasnt fought on land to take out some of narutos,
then hes running out, especially if he uses succh large scale suitons and the fact that samehada takes up his own chakra (which kisame is out of), means that he aint healing here,
Lol, No,
he either uses waterdome or GSB, not both at the same time,
this is just no limits fallacy
not to mention that if kisame fires off GSB after naruto fires FRS, then kisames getting hit before he the GSB even forms, or naruto can simply disrupt kisames GSB formation with FCD, or a clone, and tthen slam an FRS on him
killing him on the process
Dislike = Negative emootion, = negatively effected
Lol Neji saw only KN0 kid narutos reserves, so no SM narutos reserves are still >>>>>>>>>>>> 30% kisames
the rest is unnecessary as i never stated that kisame has smalll reserves
He only used a fragment of killer bees absorbed chakra to heal himsellf,
no way in hell did he use ALL of it,
Kisame + ton of hachibi chakra >>>>>>>> Kisame himself
therefore the waterdome is noot anywhere near the size,
Kisame + ton of hachibi chakra >>>>> kisame himself
its as simple as that, without the ton of external bijuu chakra, kisames dome would be nowhere near what he did
unless you think that kisames own chakra is greater than kisame plus the hachibis Lol
and Lol V1 chakra is immense, neji compared KN0 kid narutos reserves to 30% Kisames
V1 full 8-tail cloak x3 + V2 full 8-tail cloak is a ton of chakra,
so yeah, his jutsus wont be that powerful
thats because bee is a perfect jin,
kisame still absorbed a ton of chakra,as stated by bee himself and that shouldnt be ignored here
NO he hasnt,
Probably atleast more than 30% of his own chakra, so NO
i will repeat it again,
Kisames own reserves + alot of hachibi chakra >>>>>> kisames own reserves,
iits as simple as that, so yes it wont be anywhere near the level
I have already addressed this, they dont need to land hits on kisame in the dome,
they are only there for support,
hes not using that underwater, and even if he can (which he obviously cant) then whats to suggest that it has enough power to take the toads out, GSBs DC is featless
whats even worse is that it just allows the real to get away
Sharks are not killing them either, not when the toads can operate under water, just fine
they tank their attacks and swim out of the dome where on the contrary sharks wont function
he cant do that here,
he cant form as many water clones as narutos KB,
not before he breaks free
thhe toads are faster than naruto underwater, so he gets them to swim out of the domee, before he runs out of air
Lol If naruto escapes the dome then whats the point of kisame being in the dome?
he is just wasting his time and chakra
bunta leaps up and runs out, heck whats worse is that would kisame even be able to tell which is the real and which is a clone, since he can also escape with the other 2 toads,
Lets see, if naruto gets caught in the dome (which is a very very big if)
naruto disprses his clones collecting nature energy, and reverts to base,
thus he has nothing to worry about,
he forms as many clones as he can, and dont give me that its throwing away chakra excuse,
when even kid naruto can form over 1000 clones, so naruto can form even more
and
You must be registered for see links
the chakra from the clone comes right back at the original once dispersed[/URL], means that naruto aint tiring out just from using cloneslets see, kisame is dividing the reals power into forming the clones, meaning he gets weakened
Lol merged kisame at his peak knocking bee around =/= sharks being able to outmuscle naruto, so try again
you keeep onn repeating sharks, but you have yet to show me how they are even worth mentioning here, i have already addressed more than enough on them, it seems that you're on denial here
sharks are taken out and guarded against through summons,
sharks restriaining and water prisons restraining the clones just allows the real even more time to escape, so either way he breaks free, which is all that he needs
Lol, the boss summons guard naruto from the sharks, and help him break free,
Lol naruto can form well over 1000 clones with each of them being able to take out the sharks as well, so the numbers are obviously on narutos favor
one hit from the toad still eradicates a shark, when their swords are over building sized, and please dont bring the water pressure argument again,
when the toads dont need anywhere near the full power of their attacks to take out these sharks,
and how exactly are the toads being killed here?, from a shark bite? can the bite even break through their skin? you have yet to prove that here, hell they can operate under water perfectly, and swim out, its not like the sharks cann stop them from doing so, a bite isnt doing shit here, so they break free either way,
and Lol at biting their eye balls, pretty sure that the toads can guard themselves from that, if thats ur argument for the sharks overwhelming the toads, then either bring a better argument or concede,
............................See above
The rinnegan has already showed
You must be registered for see links
, and the ability to
You must be registered for see links
, so even if naruto was in a pitch black location, pein should still be able to see him, but he obviously didnt before the path got wrecked,
He was not weakened, seeing how samehada completely repaired him right after he got out, so even the blade somehow assisted him.
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
and he used 1000 sharks and GSB right near a water source which is what made it easier for him,
here he doesnt have a water source near him,
and Lol using GSB and 1000 sharks seperately, doesnt mean that he can use WD, GSB, 1000 sharks, and water clones all at the same time,
thats just fan fic
He cant use WD and GSB together because he can only do one at a time, its as simple as that,
its like me saying that naruto can make 1000 rasengans from each clone whilst the real makes an FRS, just because naruto has insane reserves, thats not how it works mate,
and even then, he cant use WD and GSB together because nothing suggests that he can,
kisame is certainly running out, if he resorts to using such large scale attacks without absorbing any chakra from naruto at all (which would require combat on ground)
clones and summons are diversions, you not admitting that they are, is just denial,,
and Lol at a shark killing naruto, i have addressed this several times, im getting tired of repeating the same thing over and over again,
and clones poofing doesnt affect the real naruto once hes out, it only recovers him, as the chakra from the clones will return back to the original
Lol, you clearly dont know much about KB and SM mechanics
first of all, the chakra from the clones go back to the original once they go poof,
and evident example of this is
You must be registered for see links
so once the clones go poof, so do the chakra thats divided, and naruto gets back to his original reserves once hes out
and as for SM, all naruto really needs to do is collect nature energy and infuse it with himself to enter SM,
hell he was collecting nature energy when preta was completely sucking him dry, so re entering SM is no problem for naruto at all
and again, whats the point of kisame beiing inside the dome if nrauto isnt even in it?
he has to maintain a dome this large without any external chakra, and with no results, so hes just wasting his time there
The problem for kisame here is that naruto has summons that guard him and can immediately swim away to get out as well, as they each carry a clone from naruto whilst one of them carries the real, and spread out away from each other, therefore rendering kisames efforts uselesss, and wasting his time and chakra,
there is literally no use in kisame being in the dome just by himself
having the chakra feats ddoesnt mean that he can use WD and GSB at the same time,
shinobis have knead and release limits so nothing suggests that kisame could do that here, as well as the fact that kisame could only do one thing at a time,
logic dictates he cant use WD and GSB at the same time, thats just insane, and him not using it in canon can also be used as an indication for that,
RSM naruto has the chakra feats to spam oover 1000 rasen shurikens, did he do that?, No he didnt. Can he do that? No, he cant
feats disagree, manga says otherwise as well
Too bad that he can make more than 1000 clones here, and they dont have to be in SM either,
too bad that it wont be a waste, since his power returns once the clones disperse
too bad that he doesnt get overwhelmed since he breaks free within seconds
never stated that minato summoned right at that instant to a distance that far away, so i dont see where ur going with that
i am well aware that it requires the user to be at or above the height
yep, naruto would be at a very close distance to kisame either way, so summoning a toad on kisames head wont take that long,
or even if it does take long, there is always the option of frog call being a GG here for Kisame, and that would certainly be quicker than kisame forming GSB, as the moment he hears the sound he gets restrained
and dont bring up the water argument again, when hes getting restrained before he even forms GSB here
and Lol a several kilo toad slamming down on kisame = kisame having his vertebrae crushed, and kisame getting restrained
Umm No,
GSB surrounds kisame with water, only after he has casted the jutsu itself,
besides forming GSB underwater doesnt mean that he can form it under the waterdome,
Speed of sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Speed of kisames hand seal and formation of GSB
so kisame gets paralysed, and then gets his chakra network shattered by an FRS,
water wont form when kisame is getting immobilised the moment he attempts to form the jutsu,
full intel makes it a certainity for naruto to counter this
its also sad how you're completely ignoring combat on ground, when GSB is still being used on ground,
yet i have explained you narutos counters in both environments
Doesnt have to be a genjutsu,
samehada isnt absorbing sound, its as simple as that
nope, Frog Call is effective since the water wont surround kisame before he forms GSB,
GSB is still longer than frog call, which is basically ma and pa speaking, so that restrains him
Sigh, this has already beeen addressed,
Ignoring the points, i see
[/QUOTE]
one swing from a building sized sword would eradicate multiple sharks in one hit,
water cannons from bunta would also suffice here,
You must be registered for see links
You must be registered for see links
all of which would get riid of multiple sharks with ease
sharks are not doing shit, and kisame attempting to fight the toads head on, just leaves him a sitting duck for SM naruto to attack and overwhelm
first of all GSB is completely moot when naruto already has the speed to evade the jutsu,
secondly FRS doesnt even take that long to fire, its speed itself is alot faster than kisame could even react, meaning that even if GSB does manage to form, naruto can just shunshin out GSB and evade it, therefore rendering kisames attack uselesss,
and can get 3 boss toads to attack kisame and disrupt his control over the jtusu completely,
thirdly the speed and formation of FRS is probably equivalent if not faster than GSB, so even if kisame sees naruto fire an FRS, he wont be able to even physically react let alone form GSB quick enough to absorb the FRS (which is a big if)
so he gets killed,
Luckily for naruto he has Mas Dust Clloud and Smoke bombs to help him do that
so kisame isnt seeing shit
the FRS can be a decoy,
and Lol not swimming, he is using shunshin, water would only surround kisames front nothing else,
To attempt cutting naruto at CQC,
to take out his bijuu chakra, in-order to increase the scale of his attacks and in-order to stand a remote chance here
all of which lead to his death right on the process
Again, whats the point of kisame staying in the dome if narutos not even in it
this has to be the dumbest thing i have heard in your argument,
the ony thing its doing is wasting kisames chakra,
and Lol how is kisame killing naruto from a distance on dry ground?
he has nothing to get naruto from a distance at all, and everything he attempts would just get evaded,
Lol more like the other way around, kisame would literally be doing jack shit if he resorts to such combat
FRS can kill kisame, he wont see it coming from a distance and its speed would be far too much for him too physically evade so he dies,
or naruto just closes the distance through far superior shunshin and toads, and rapes him
the location is destroyed konoha, so kisame isnt running away at all
it still implodes rather quickly, so samehada would have a hole busted in it,
and Lol samehada couldnt absorb all of V2 cloak, so not a great example
Based on what?
the amount of KB that naruto forms herre would be too much for water clones to catch, so he gets free
With what? their featless bites? to toads that can operate underwater and defend themselves?
the same toads who laugh at their attacks and swim out of the dome? Lol
Draggin a giant raccoon would slow bee down even more,
so narutos speed unnderwater would likely to be superior,
not that it matters since the dome would be smaller and the diversions would be far greater, so its only a matter of mere seconds
Lol till this point you have not established kisames counter to frog call,
ignoring the inevitable, and saying that it wont occur before kisame forming the WD, is a piss poor of an excuse when the moment the soound is castted, kisame hears it, and gets immobilised
and also Lol at ur excuse for naruto unable to counter GSB,
Its not wrong at all,
all this shows is that you are in great denial to ignore everything and just spout waterdome, Lol,
why the hell would frog call even be used underwater, thats just dumb,
kisame gets seperated when he gets engaged by SM naruto and his clones within seconds,
heck even base guy was able to do that, what makes you think that naruto is unable to do that, when he has full intel
and what good is merging with samehada doing for kisame, when he still has no counters to frog call, would still get pulverised by frog kata regardless of the healing (which he wont get without any external chakra), and would still get killed by an FRS,
no matter what he does or where he does it, he doesnt get anywhere at all, so he obviously loses
no he doesnt
Last edited:
TRE MERCER
Active member
Awards
No way in hell am i replying to that massive wall of text,,
you've basically repeated exactly the same stuff you said in your last post and i've pretty much already countered everything you just said, i'm disappointed honestly you brought nothing new to the table
We can conclude the debate as it is - i'm not wasting my time on that. The debate is ready to be judged.
you've basically repeated exactly the same stuff you said in your last post and i've pretty much already countered everything you just said, i'm disappointed honestly you brought nothing new to the table
We can conclude the debate as it is - i'm not wasting my time on that. The debate is ready to be judged.
- Format
- Arguments
Beans did very good and used every freaking tech on Kisame's arsenal, including sharks (and successfully exploiting them too) which are subpar summons. Kisame using the dome at the beginning of the fight was a plausible argument and you explained it well. You did good on showing how big were Kisame's reserves and on how fast Daikodan is. You overrated water clone's strenght (but that Samehada fusion exploit was very nice and well thought) and you misunderstood Kage Bunshin's chakra mechanics. You were a lot on the offensive and your defensive arguments were a bit lackluster since you focused on preventing Naruto's attacks.
This goes to beans in both categories in my opinion, Kifflom could have handled his arguments better (not to mention Naruto had prep which is a really big factor as mentioned above by yours truly) but beans could have also countered his last post instead of ignoring it (even though half of that was full of things previously said).
ok, though i did have paragraphs in mine
Toad Confrontation Chant was never mentioned in this thread at all, so i dont know where you got that from
Only Frog Call was mentioned here
Asura Path is also called Shurado,
so whats the problem here?
his speed is still much faster than kisames,
and he blitzed a path that nigh blitzed sm jiraiya and tsuande,
claiming that kisame cant physically evade him, is not overrating
I had already provided scans that support FRS travelling speed is the same as a susanoo arrow which is remarkably fast, FRS formation speed isnt that slow either, (although that wasnt really overrating either or emphasised on either)
Kisames owwn reserves + bijuu charka >>> kisames own reserves, so obviously the scale of his jutsus would be smaller without the external chakra
Explain how?
Explain how? i gave multiple counters
just because it was used on summons, doest mean that it doesnt work on human sized targets,
it paralyses based on the opponents hearing, not seeing what the size hass to do with that
explain how,
ok
i was only on the defensive during the waterdome,
apart from that i wasnt,
whilst Beans flat out ignored combat on ground, not seeing why its my fault,
I accept your decision, and i'll take it like a man,
but your reasoning hasnt convinced me enough,
