Lol no, i was actually talking about Jman vs Jiraiya. I haven't seen one of those debates really, since i skept every vs thread that had Itachi on it
EDIT: Sorry i mean JMAN vs Itachi lol
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KidGamer65 (Itachi) vs Beans2 (SM Jiraiya)
- Thread starter Beans2
- Start date
EDIT: Sorry i mean JMAN vs Itachi lol
TRE MERCER
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Yes i know, i remember the whole Itachi vs Jiraiya thing, but i never got inside those threads. Itachi fanboys were definitely the worse. I always looked up for threads that had Kakashi, Danzo or Zabuza on them. While the ones with Itachi and Nagato were too boring for me. (By that time Itachi was around top 10 and i hated debates with top tier characters)
TRE MERCER
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Lmao then i pick the second one, because I dont stalk your threads
L0l don't start this again.
Lord Tywin
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Lmao Bro, don't start! Anyway Jman solos high diff and here's why.
Intro: Using MS with Susanoo
They say offense is the best defense, and that holds true in this battle where Itachi will be forced to maintain Susanoo for a majority of this battle to protect against Jiraiya's constant ninjutsu spam. Making Itachi use Susanoo gives Jiraiya several advantages in this battle.
1. Itachi can't use Amaterasu with more than a ribcage Susanoo since Sasuke barely managed to use it with V2, and then his Susanoo collapsed and he immediately felt the effects of MS strain [
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]. Itachi using it with a ribcage Susanoo alone will take a toll on his eyes considering Itachi was showing signs of strain after multiple uses of Amaterasu alone [
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]. Sasuke used black flames with a ribcage several times against Ay [
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][
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] but later on in the kage summit he did not use it against Mei he didn't one shot her with Amaterasu despite being in a 1 on 1 with her and having a clear shot at her from a short range, possibly because he was experiencing the
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.2. Itachi can't use Tsukuyomi while maintaining any Susanoo because of MS strain resulting from it. Tsukuyomi is a more taxing technique than Amaterasu considering Itachi managed multiple uses of Amaterasu without keeling over, but in the same fight he
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after one use of Tsukuyomi. Itachi's barely capable of using Amaterasu with ribcage, so him using Tsukuyomi while maintaining it is even more unlikely, especially when he doesn't have feats of him doing so.3. Jiraiya can eventually force Itachi to overuse Susanoo and outlast him.
How will Jiraiya force Itachi to use Susanoo? The answer lies in the fact that Jiraiya has multiple attacks that take little time to execute and have a wide enough range to hit Itachi. Let's take a look at a few of his techniques.
Kebari Senbon- as seen vs Pain this attack requires no hand seals and has a very fast execution speed [
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]. Jiraiya calls it his
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and Animal Path opted to
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rather than dodge the attack. Jiraiya confirms that this attack is not one that can easily be avoided and even states that the only possible defense is to block it with a shield.
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Itachi can't avoid it with shunshin, since all Jiraiya has to do is direct the needles to hit Itachi at his new position and he can do this by
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into a position that lets him fire off needles in every direction. To avoid being turned into a pincushion, Itachi will choose to do one of the following: use Susanoo to tank the needles or use a katon to burn the needles away and attack Jiraiya, in which Jiraiya will return fire with Goemon and then really force Itachi to use Susanoo.Goemon- Jiraiya can enhance his Goemon to be even stronger by using
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instead of
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from his mouth. Dai Endan is superior to regular Oil Bullet since it combines oil and fire like a flamethrower and is more than ten times larger than his regular flame bombs [
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]. Goemon alone reaches
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in temperature so modified Goemon should be much hotter. Lava upon exiting a volcano is around
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and was
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, and
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forced Madara to upgrade to V2 Susanoo and did
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, so continued exposure to the flames can melt a ribcage. How long can Jiraiya maintain this jutsu? Well Dai Endan occupied Preta Path for the entirety of Jiraiya's assault on the three paths [
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]>[
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] and that was just a clone using the technique. Modified Goemon can make Itachi keep up at least a V2. If Jiraiya summons Gamabunta and combines Goemon with
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(with Bunta enhancing the attack with oil) the heat can wreck a V2 Susanoo and do moderate damage to V3 Susanoo.Chou Oodama Rasengan- Base Naruto's COR was
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Susanoo prior to even exploding and
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. I believe COR's explosion should be capable of destroying V2 Susanoo with the user inside remaining unharmed. Why?Madara's Susanoo > Itachi's Susanoo.
SM Jiraiya's COR > Base Naruto's smaller COR.
COR explosion > COR's power without exploding. There was no explosion when it was up against Madara. COR is hyped to be capable of easily
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and V2 Susanoo is nowhere near mountain level, even if it could be referring to a small mountain.Add up all those factors, and I think a Chou Oodama Rasengan explosion will destroy V2 Susanoo based on that interaction. Even if it doesn't completely destroy V2 Susanoo, Jiraiya can just use Goemon and follow up with COR to destroy Susanoo and kill Itachi...forcing Itachi to activate V3. OR, Jiraiya slams COR on Susanoo while in his other hand he forms another COR and lands the second one on top of the same spot so concussive damage busts through it.
By keeping up Susanoo, Itachi's options become limited when Jiraiya can take advantage of his vulnerability at any moment to hit him with these attacks. Manifesting Susanoo to defend against the attack and then removing it to snipe with his famous one shot techniques is not a good battle strategy for Itachi because:
-Continously manifesting Susanoo only to drop it is a waste of chakra and it takes a toll on Itachi's eyes, as do Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu.
-Jiraiya would just counter Tsukuyomi and Amaterasu anyway.
Eventually this battle will come down to how Jiraiya deals with V3 Susanoo after Itachi sees his lower versions get busted.
Countering Itachi's moveset
As explained in the first paragraph Itachi's moveset becomes limited when he'll be on the defensive, using Susanoo for much of the battle.
Katon/Suiton. Almost not worth mentioning since Jiraiya's level of Katon outclasses Itachi's completely and his fire attacks are hot enough to evaporate suiton, not to mention Jiraiya can dodge.
Clones. Shadow clones or crow clones can be mowed down in seconds with Kebari Senbon. Clone feints aren't working when Jiraiya and the toad sages are both sage sensors and can detect
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on the battlefield (he has his sensing barrier too.) If the crow clones turn into crows after getting hit by the hair needles, a simple katon burns the feathery fowl into flames.Genjutsu. In the event that Jiraiya gets caught in genjutsu, the two toad sages perched on Jiraiya's shoulders will
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and immediately
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. Tsukuyomi is the only threat, but Itachi can't use it with Susanoo and as I explained in the first paragraph Itachi will be forced to keep that up for most of the battle and the moment he drops it he can be greeted with a barrage of hair needles. Even if Itachi gets a window of opportunity to use it, Jiraiya has full intel and countermeasures to avoid getting caught in it. Use of smokescreens [
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][
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] will break eye contact with Itachi and Jiraiya or the sage toads can anticipate it by sensing the chakra build up from MS [
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]. The fact that Jiraiya has shadow clones will make Itachi extra wary about using Tsukuyomi since he won't want to be
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.Amaterasu. Ma who is a
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will
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for Amaterasu and can use her dust cloud to
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, preventing Jiraiya from getting hit.Jiraiya also has SM sensing. Databook 4 confirms Jiraiya is a user of frog kata, which needs sensing to be used [
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]. When he senses Amaterasu he can exit Itachi's line of sight using shunshin [
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]>[
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] to avoid getting hit. He can
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by using it to launch himself further even faster. Jiraiya is not nearly as fast as Ay who dodged it, but unlike Ay he will be able to sense it coming and anticipate it better. Killer Bee threw swords, and Nagato deflected them before Amaterasu was activated after being sensed (
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) and Bee was able to intercept Amaterasu with his tentacles [
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]>[
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] so Jiraiya will have enough time to shunshin out of the way.Yasaka Magatamas. Jiraiya can hold his
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in front of him which acts as a shield from Magatamas. They will bounce off it due to its violent swirling rotation.Susanoo. Jiraiya only needs to stay out of range of Susanoo. He can take out Itachi at a medium or long range so he doesn't need to come close to finish him off. Itachi can't use his top shunshin while maintaining a heavy Susanoo so Jiraiya becomes faster and can stay out of its range. Jiraiya has already shown impressive speed feats.
-Traversed the length of a large room into a narrow pipe opening
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before three Rinnegan users could lift a finger.-Four consecutive movement lines across a large distance indicate Jiraiya was moving very quickly through the pipeline in a series of jumps.
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.-The sheer force of Jiraiya launching himself off a wall kicked up enough dust to make a small explosion [
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] indicating the speed he was traveling was very fast.-Jiraiya was not only able to
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out of nowhere before Kisame or Itachi reacted, but he also summoned a toad to intercept Kisame's attack mid-Samehada swing. And that was Jiraiya in base.The only time in the manga where someone used shunshin with Susanoo was when Sasuke did so
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and that's not even as impressive as it looks since Itachi also reeled in Kabuto by his snakes and a relatively
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was covered in total. If Itachi drops Susanoo to shunshin towards Jiraiya, he's left open to an attack like Goemon or Chou Oodama Rasengan. Ma and Pa can also use Frog Call to paralyze Itachi and keep him from getting closer.How Jiraiya kills Itachi
A couple ways Jiraiya can win...
Gama Rinsho paralyzes the opponent and would make Itachi
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upon getting caught in the genjutsu leaving him vulnerable to a sword through his chest. The jutsu's weakness is that it uses sound, which gives away Jiraiya's position [
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], but Jiraiya has summons to let him get around that: barrier toads like these three little guys:
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Can sharingan see Jiraiya hiding inside the belly of a toad? No he cannot!
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So if Jiraiya and the sages are inside a barrier toad, Itachi will not be able to see or hear them. So follow me here: earlier on in the battle Jiraiya will use
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, which Itachi will see and evade upon reading Jiraiya's hand seals. So Itachi will just think it was a failed attack and not realize Jiraiya is going to later hide in the swamp (spoiler alert!). Pa summons the
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while Jiraiya summons one of the small barrier toads I mentioned above. When the boss toads attack (after Pa orders them to) Ma spits out her
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to act as a smokescreen. Jiraiya and the toad sages will then escape into the barrier toad, which burrows into the mud of Yomi Numa...which toads do
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! Fact! So I am not sealing the fate of this toad when I said it would go into the mud, lol, and this toad can also withstand 328 feet of water pressure so it can burrow pretty deep into the mud if it wants to.So while Itachi is battling the toads upstairs, Ma and Pa are preparing their genjutsu duet in the swamp below. Jiraiya can leave a shadow clone to fight alongside the toads to fool Itachi into thinking he's fighting next to the toads, (a transformation jutsu makes it appear like Ma and Pa are on his shoulders.) Admittedly, three toads and a shadow clone are no match for Itachi, but they will buy the toad sages time to prep genjutsu...long before Itachi realizes there's something lurking in the swamp... When the genjutsu is ready, Jiraiya, Ma, and Pa emerge from the swamp and paralyze Itachi. GG.
Strategy #2! Ma and Pa use
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against Itachi which
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, Susanoo or not. As they do this, Jiraiya turns the ground below Itachi into a swamp, causing him to helplessly sink into the ground and drown. Now why is this GG?1. Itachi can't use shunshin to evade the swamp when he's paralyzed.
2. Itachi will be sunk into the ground before the duration of frog call is over. Yomi Numa's speed is underrated and here's why: it's not just a marsh that things sink into. It literally pulls the opponent into the swamp with
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. The weight of two humans hanging upside down was still nothing for the swamp which pulled them in regardless.
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If a forearm's length could be pulled into the swamp in just a second, how quickly would Itachi sink if gravity was working towards the swamp instead of against it assisting the sinking process? Whereas Frog Call lasts the duration of these three pages [
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]>[
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]>[
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]...and probably could have lasted even longer, seeing how Ma and Pa chose to end it once Pein's summons were killed and they can croak for a much longer time than on that occassion, as shown by how long they sang their genjutsu duet for.3. Susanoo will just make things worse because its weight will work against Itachi. so if he chooses to hover in Susanoo, it just sinks even faster. Which is why a giant snake was
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(and should be sunk even faster, considering how Jiraiya was drugged and on the next page remarks that it couldn't even completely submerge the snake, and that was base Jiraiya's YN, make that a healthy Jmans SM Yomi Numa and...you get the idea!) If he removes Susanoo or downgrades to a lower version, Jiraiya easily busts his defense and kills him with a follow up attack.4. What seals the deal is Jiraiya will summon a
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on top of the swamp after Itachi gets sunk, entombing him in a muddy grave and ending any chance that Itachi could break out of the swamp somehow with Susanoo.And strategy #3...well, I wouldn't really call this a strategy, but yeah Jiraiya can outlast Itachi. Easily. So Itachi needs a solid way to put Jiraiya down, and put him down quickly because as the battle goes on Itachi will start going blind from using MS.
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Alright KidGamer I await your counter.
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Unorthodox
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How in the hell would he remember TRE MERCER is 2014
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You must like debating matchups you already lost because you lost this one multiple times rather its was Itachi or Sasuke but goodluck
Many users were locked out of the site and couldn't create an account, but could see everything on the site just fine. He and many others from my understanding were watching everything that was going on during the lock out.
BlueMeteor
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KidGamer65
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Overall point is true, but there are a few issues.
1. Itachi had used Amaterasu multiple times, he had used Tsukuyomi and gotten it broken (which increases the strain) and he was on death's door taking pills so he could continue living long enough to die at Sasuke's hand. Pt 1. Itachi used:
-
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, which splits chakra in half.-Hit
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.-Only moments later,
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-And then followed up with
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.Only to say that he needs to stop and take a
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. Unlike when he was fighting Sasuke, where he used Amaterasu twice, got his Tsukuyomi broken and was panting and coughing up blood and shit. Itachi's stamina and overall health was at it's worst against Sasuke. By far. I already told you, that's not the Itachi that's fighting Jiraiya here. Sasuke didn't use Amaterasu against Mei because he had been using Susanoo against Ay, used Amaterasu against Ay, and then used Susanoo all the way up until the Mei battle. Not to mention he was talking about the overwhelming pain, yet Itachi used a Complete Susanoo when he was seconds away from death. Even Sasuke notes how hard it must have been for him to maintain it despite his state.
Besides, even Sasuke showed better usage of Susanoo and his MS techs after that.
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. That's where you're wrong. Again. Scans above show that he can use Tsukuyomi w/o collapsing when he's not living off pills. And Zetsu's reaction to Itachi falling instead of Sasuke falling is pretty much the final nail in the coffin when it comes to the Tsukuyomi argument. Itachi fell from the backlash of Sasuke breaking his Genjutsu, not because he used the Genjutsu. And even then the backlash wasn't anything significant. He hit the ground for a good second or two and then got up, perfectly fine.Feats aren't needed. Tsukuyomi isn't anywhere near as taxing as Amaterasu going by feats. He easily uses this while Susanoo is up since Jiraiya can't break it.
Yeah, Animal Path's only possible defense would be to use a shield, mainly because Jiraiya was less than a meter away from him when he released it. I don't have to tell you that Itachi's speed and reaction far surpasses that of the Animal Path. Not to mention the range it covers horizontally isn't even that great since all the needles hit the Panda.
Easier said than done. Much easier said than done. He'd have to be able to know where Itachi is moving, and be able to change the course of his attack at least as fast as Itachi can Shunshin, and there is no evidence that he can do that. Besides, this isn't even possible. Kebari Senbon is a projectile. He'd have to change the shape of his hair faster than the Senbon can fire, and considering it's his fastest attack in Sage Mode, I'm going to go ahead and say that he can't do that. The better thing to do would be for him to manipulate his hair so that he can fire in every direction, and then fire instead of trying to do so while Itachi is dodging his first wave of Senbon. But even if he does that, Itachi can just use a
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, not to mention Jiraiya can't even cover every single area of the battlefield. A full Susanoo isn't even needed.Once Dai Endan is used, it becomes flame as the oil is burnt up to up the strength of the flame. Flame enhanced by oil isn't going to do what Oil does to a flame nor is it some kind of oil+flame hybrid. Oil is only used as the fuel for the flame, just how Wind can also be used. Doesn't make fuuton+Katon a Fuuton Katon hybrid. So this isn't going to work. It'd be a Goemon used with Double Flame and Fuuton, which would be piss weak in comparison to the regular Goemon.
The normal Goemon is easily tanked by Ribcage Susanoo unless Itachi decides to bathe in it. Mei's Lava didn't do anything at first. Same happens with Goemon since you've stated yourself, that they are around the same temperature range. If Itachi gets caught in it, all he needs to do is jump out while his Susanoo is active.
Toad Oil Flame Bullet? Where is the evidence that Goemon+Toad Oil Flame Bullet would "wreck" a V2 Susanoo when something near Goemon's level of heat barely did anything to Madara's Susanoo? Toad Oil Flame Bullet would have to be far stronger than a regular Goemon for the combined attack to wreck a V2, and it's not as strong. Nowhere near as strong in fact. Even if the Goemon was enhanced, would it be enhanced enough to do heavy damage to a V2? Or even moderate damage? Because Mei's Lava even after a few seconds of exposure did absolutely nothing but melt the front of his Susanoo. The damage wasn't even noticeable after the panel he emerged from the Lava. Even if this strategy worked, the addition of Dai Endan would increase the size, but would it increase the temperature to the point where it'd be "much hotter"? Doubt it. Besides, the shorter the exposure the less sever the damage is. All Itachi needs to do is get out of range.
And btw, why emphasize on the fact that a clone used the tech? Zero reason to believe that it'd be any larger if the original did it. Naruto's Rasengan will always be the same size regardless of him or a clone using the technique.
Anyway, after Goemon+Toad Oil Flame Bullet is resolved, Itachi uses the flame and smoke as cover and takes Gamabunta out with Yasaka Magatama, or he gets close to him by using the flame and smoke and casts Genjutsu on him, or he just takes him out with Susanoo.
Ok. I'll agree that COR does heavy damage to a V2 Susanoo, but:
1. Read above for Goemon. Even if it is enhanced. Where is the evidence that Dai Endan would enhance it to the point where it'd do anything significant to V2 considering something near the temp of the original Goemon did pretty much nothing to V2 Susanoo in canon? Then there's the fact that the biggest thing it contributes is size. Why would the temperature be much hotter? Even then, it doesn't work as I've explained above. Pure Oil=/=Flame w/ Oil acting as it's fuel. Oil ignited to make flame is still flame.
2. V3 would just tank. It takes something as strong as Kirin to completely obliterate it. COR is nowhere near that level. Then there's the fact that Ribcage can tank
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would obliterate a Ribcage. So it stands to reason that V3 would tank something that V2 would be destroyed by. Or at least take it with moderate damage. Then there's the fact that the gap between COR and Kirin is ridiculously large considering Kirin and FRS are on par, and FRS is stronger than 25 of those CORs being used by SM Naruto considering Kurama's reaction to both attacks.
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COR is nowhere near a real Mountain Level attack. Not when Kurama shrugged one off with it's tail, and shrugged 25 of them off despite it being a direct hit.
As for the rest of your paragraph:
-Itachi can knock him away when he's using his first one.
-The explosion of the Rasengan will most likely
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-Zero proof he can maintain two Rasengan at once, so that means a gap between both attacks exists, and that's when Itachi can act.
Wrong. Using Susanoo in bursts saves more chakra and stamina than him maintaining it the whole fight. It takes chakra and stamina to maintain Susanoo. The longer you maintain it, the longer your eyes are taking damage so using it in bursts makes it so that his eyes don't wear out quicker. Sasuke spammed Susanoo and Amaterasu and Kagutsuchi during the Kage Summit, and ended up so blind that he couldn't use MS. Itachi never reached that point despite having his MS for over 5 years.
We'll see how he counters them below.
The fact that you are mainly using Katon and Rasengan, a widespread attack and an explosive attack that can't do anything significant to V3, means that Itachi will have plenty of time to get on the offensive if need be.
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who is a better sensor than any of these 3 by feats. If Itachi ever lands a Genjutsu on Jiraiya, they'll be able to break him out, but the brief second or two they are doing that is the brief second or two where Itachi lights Jiraiya's ass up with Amaterasu. If he has to drop his Susanoo to do that then so be it, cause it'll be the end of Jiraiya's life anyway.
Tsukuyomi and Susanoo have been addressed above. Not being able to use it with Susanoo has no real evidence behind it.
Smokescreens only work if Itachi isn't close to Jiraiya. All he needs to do is get close to him by entering the smoke screen, and he'll be able to see him clearly, just how Jiraiya saw Animal Path inside the smoke screen. Not buying the "chakra build up" thing when it comes to Genjutsu, especially when there is no noticeable build up of chakra that we've ever seen in this Manga when a character is about to cast any type of Ocular Genjutsu. No noticeable build up of chakra=Jiraiya being able to sense becoming meaningless since he'll be caught if he tries to escape it this way.
Jiraiya's shadow clones mean nothing.
1. They'd be easily mowed down by Susanoo.
2. They don't have Fukasaku or Shima on them, so telling who the original is won't be hard.
3. Even if they do, Sharingan would easily tell them apart since
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He'd only see one type of chakra for the clones, and 3 types of different colored chakra for the original. Transformation Jutsu won't create 2 separate chakra signatures that match Ma and Pa's own.Dust Cloud is a Fuuton. If Itachi uses Katon or Amaterasu on the cloud once it's used, it'll catch on fire like any normal fuuton would do, or it'd create a
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Either way, Jiraiya would die a burning, and painful, death.Agreed on the fact that he can sense. But exiting his line of sight? Not a chance. If Jiraiya moves while Itachi is building up the chakra, then once he's done building up the chakra he'd just shift his head and slam Jiraiya with the technique. The fact he can tell where Jiraiya is moving before Jiraiya gets there via Sharingan only makes this plan even less likely to succeed. The only way he escapes Amaterasu on foot in a grassland with no cover is if he is fast enough to escape Sharingan's Line of Sight before said Sharingan can track his movements and hit him. He managed to break away from Pain, but Pain followed his movement since Pain knew where Jiraiya had went, and he can't even use precognition like Sharingan can nor is he as fast as Itachi.
Being able to sense means that he'll expect it, but that doesn't mean that he'll be able to evade it.
-Moving while it's being built up=Itachi tracking him with Sharingan, and then moving his head to catch him, since Jiraiya moved before Itachi had even finished charging it up.
-Moving when it's released=him dying since he doesn't have the raw speed to evade it.
This whole argument is basically you saying that Jiraiya can dodge Amaterasu, and that being able to sense is proof that he can despite you not having proof that his Sensing will make up for the ridiculous gap in speed there is between Max Power Ay and Jiraiya. Even V1 Ay has a significant lead in speed over Jiraiya when it comes to Shunshin, and he can't dodge Amaterasu.
What happened before it was released is irrelevant since it's not a projectile with a fixed trajectory. Itachi can alter it at any time. Not to mention Itachi has used it faster on many occasions.
-Vs. Kabuto.
-Part 1 vs. Jiraiya.
-Vs. Sasuke, multiple times.
Taking the slowest usage doesn't prove anything here.
But then what about after Chou Oodama Rasengan resolves? He'd be left defenseless against the Magatma.
Still not buying the "can't use max Shunshin while in Susanoo" argument. Itachi's feet are on the ground, and the chakra focused to the feet is what propels him. Unless Susanoo is heavy, then he shouldn't have an issue. Then there's the fact that he Shunshin'd in, blindsided Nagato despite the latter being able to sense chakra, while he was in Susanoo, nor was he anywhere near the scene beforehand. He chopped off his arm, rescued B and snatched Naruto away from
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Doubt that Itachi with gimped speed can blindside Nagato. Highly doubt it.As for the Sasuke feat, it being a short distance shouldn't even matter since it's the speed he crossed said distance that matters. If he can use Shunshin while in Susanoo then there is no reason why said Shunshin would be any slower than it usually is. If they use Frog Call to paralyze them, then he can just respond by using Yasaka Magatma while he's paralyzed. Not to mention Frog Call only lasts for a few seconds.
Gama Rinsho is never happening.
@bold: Lmaooo....it seems you must've forgotten how Yomi Numa even works. Yomi Numa is an adhesive swamp that drags it's opponents in deeper and deeper. If Jiraiya gets in the swamp and burrows down deep, then he'd basically be taking one big swan dive towards his death. There is no "emerging" from Yomi Numa unless you have some kind of extreme physical power or a way to nullify the mud. Once you are caught, you sink, and you die. Real life mud is irrelevant since it's not adhesive like Yomi Numa is. They won't even be able to move properly in Yomi Numa let alone burrow inside of it.
If real life mud and Yomi Numa were the same, then Yomi Numa would be a pointless technique since it any opponent would be able to just swim out of it. Then there's the fact that Amaterasu or Katon would ignite the Dust Cloud and either light them on fire or cause an explosion that will kill them.
Nope. This is what happens.
Jiraiya dives in the swamp, basically telling Itachi that he gives up. Itachi manhandles the toads with Susanoo along with Jiraiya's clone, which won't fool Itachi since Transformation won't make 3 chakra signatures, only one chakra signature. Toads attacks are easily tanked, then Susanoo cuts into them with it's blade or Yasaka Magatma run through their vitals. Then the clone, which can only use Jiraiya's techniques, which are no threat to Itachi, is mowed down with Susanoo's speed and power.
Or he just puts Susanoo down and uses a small Amaterasu on said clone.
Not gonna happen. No, Itachi can't move while Kawazu Naki is up, but his Susanoo can since it can't be paralyzed by Sound Waves due to not having any of the organs humans have, that'd be susceptible to sound. Once Itachi has been paralyzed, he can:
-Have Susanoo toss him away from the area of the Mud. Susanoo can be separated from the user as shown by
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-He can predict the usage of Kawazu Naki based on the hand signs that both Ma and Pa make.They make the hand signs, and then they open their mouths and croak. Itachi's Sharingan would see them form their handsign before they even finished forming it themselves[
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] After that all he needs to do is Shunshin away as far as he can, thus he won't get caught by the AoE of the soundwaves nor will he get caught in the AoE of Yomi Numa.-Once he's paralyzed, he can just use a Suiton on the ground to propel himself away from the area the Mud will catch him in.
Nope.
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From here to here Human Path was still stuck in the ceiling despite being trapped in Yomi Numa. It doesn't even pull people in. The person just sinks. It's an adhesive swamp, so it's sticky and binds the people trapped inside. That's why Human Path didn't fall back onto the ground. Not because the pulling strength is stronger than gravity itself. Lmao. If that were true Human Path would've been submerged in a few seconds, but that didn't happen at all.
So no, there isn't any proof that Itachi would sink before Frog Call is over. Gama Rinsho and Kawazu Naki are completely different techs. Them being able to use that for an extended period of time has no bearing on how long Kawazu Naki lasts. Unless shown otherwise, it lasts just as long as the Manga has shown us that it lasts, which is not long.
But Itachi won't get caught in the swamp, so it really doesn't matter. If push comes to shove, he could just harden the area of swamp he is in using Katon or Amaterasu once Frog Call is over, and then bust out with Susanoo.
The speed wasn't the issue. The size of the swamp was the issue. It wasn't big enough to submerge the snake.
Read above. He'd have to get caught in Yomi Numa before any of this was actually possible.
Yeah...no. If Jiraiya doesn't take an active role in winning this fight, he'll die a terrible death since Itachi will easily be able to tank his attacks and plow through his defenses while closing the distance between the two. Running and defending the whole match won't work.
When it comes to finishing Jiraiya off, Itachi has multiple options.
-If Jiraiya uses COR on him in an attempt to bust his Ribcage, he either levels up to V2, takes it, has his defense wrecked and then lights Jiraiya up with Amaterasu while the smoke from the explosion is clearing. Or he levels up to V3 and knocks him away like Madara knocked Naruto away and follows up with Amaterasu (even if it forces him to drop Susanoo) which will ignite and kill the Jiraiya, who can't dodge in mid air, nor will he able to react properly since he would've been knocked away mid attack.
-If Jiraiya uses any kind of widespread Katon on him, Itachi would simply tank it with Susanoo and then use the smoke as cover to approach him, only for Jiraiya to take out a Crow Clone that Itachi switched out with while Jiraiya couldn't see him, the same feint that fooled a better sensor, and then he'd blindside him and his summons with Amaterasu.
-Itachi can close the distance between the two, snatch him up with Susanoo and use Tsukuyomi on him. If he uses COR, it's tanked by Susanoo. If he uses any kind of Katon, it's tanked by Susanoo. If he tries to increase the distance between them, he uses Amaterasu and takes Jiraiya out, since he can't dodge it and the strategy you provided for him doing such doesn't even work. If Jiraiya has any shadow clones out, Susanoo mows them down since they won't be able to use Ma and Pa's techniques nor will they be able to use anything significant since they don't have Ma and Pa to take in NE for them, nor will they have a lot since they are Jiraiya's clones.
Or if Jiraiya tries to counter Amaterasu with clones,
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Lord Tywin
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Lmao right? If I get to the finals and either beans or kg are there imma just quit.
TRE MERCER
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I already debated this with PC once and i stomped him and that was before the latest databook where Jiraya even gained some new interesting things, but i'm not the one debating, so i won't say a thing
TRE MERCER
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PC always lose MS users debates he's not very good with them. Also your right it's not our debate so let's stay quite.