[VS] KCM Naruto VS Itachi

[Ababeel]

Naruto clowns him even at the beginning of the war. Amaterasu was avoided by someone slower than Naruto in canon, forget about it landing on him here. Multiple clones means he can't land Genjutsu on the original, unless he takes out the clones first. Susanoo gets obliterated by multiple FRS and Itachi gets vaporized along with them.

Even if it landed, it's useless as he protected himself from Sasuke's Amatersu/Enton in their last battle.

 

[KCMNaruto]

I agree with thing dependent variables of this fight. Except;
Edo Itachi can infinitely keep up Susano, which will serve as invulnerability even without Edo invincibility.
Yata Mirror cannot be grabbed because it would adjust to the grab and nullify it.
Amateratsu cannot be dodged against Itachi. Versus Ay, Ay left an after-image and Amateratsu'd direction was not adjusted. KCM Naruto has no such capability, and Itachi's MS is more capable of perception that Sasuke's (so Ama will follow Naruto). KCM Naruto said they wouldn't be able to dodge Amateratsu in the Nagato fight, so it's a manga fact he cannot.

I agree with the rest of your post.

hmm... ok, I see that you are very good debater.

@ bold part , has it been ever impled/hinted ?

I meant I know about ridiculous hype of Yata Mirror and Totsuka blade, but databook states any attack.

Correct me if I am wrong but last time I checked grab is not attack by itself it can only be used as medium to use attack while grabbing something/someone, right ?

Yata Mirror:

Spoiler

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Totsuka Blade:

Spoiler

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Both weapons were stated as spiritual/etheral weapons with no physical shape:

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There was years since Databook III came out giving such ridiculous hype to these weapons wielded by Itachi, so even Itachi himself was called invincible. When the most of other fans questioned Itachi fans if Preta Path or some other techniques would work on them Itachi fans always denied it stating that these are SPIRITUAL WEAPONS, so there was never stated chakra is required even although They looked and acted as part of Susanoo as pointed out by others.

However Recently I reread war arc of the manga and I stopped at this particular scan:

Spoiler

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You may ask, what is there unusual in compare to other scans ?

The answer is simple, Nagato used Human path or Naraka path to pull soul out of Naruto's body, but Naruto could grab it with his chakra arms and even able to resist or pull them back, right ?

Soul is spirit/ethereal matter and yet it was proved chakra arms could grab it, could it mean that in spirit/ethereal matter is special kind of chakra in some form at least ?

If the answer is yes, then It could also reffer to Totsuka and Yata Mirror aka spiritual weapons being manifested with use of chakra of user along with Susanoo.

Neither MANGA or DATABOOK has ever stated or even hinted that Ningendou grabing someone cause soul to manifest, so your argument is baseless and just one of another excuse.

Your argument can only be based that if stuff was seen by someone or was invisible:

Spoiler

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^^ Yata Mirror and Totsuka Blade were clearly visible to eye as Black Zetsu saw them since Itachi pulled them out.

Also funny stuff is that Manga only reffers to them as having no physical shape, (NO mention of not being physical or visible in this plane), so stop talking bullshit as excusse.

Spoiler

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^^ as you can notice, soul also doesn't have physical shape and yet it was visible to the eye, just like spirutal weapons.

Naruto was only able to guess that it was soul as he was drained of all strength slowly:

Spoiler

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and last time I checked grab is not considered as attack:

grab
verb
1. To get hold of (something moving):
catch, clutch, seize, snatch.
Informal: nab.
Idiom: lay hands on.
2. To take firmly with the hand and maintain a hold on:
clasp, clench, clutch, grapple, grasp, grip, seize.
3. To take quick and forcible possession of:
commandeer, confiscate, expropriate, seize, snatch.
Idiom: help oneself to.
4. Slang. To compel, as the attention, interest, or imagination, of:
arrest, catch up, enthrall, fascinate, grip, hold, mesmerize, rivet, spellbind, transfix.
noun
The act of catching, especially a sudden taking and holding:
catch, clutch, seizure, snatch.

What do you think about it ? I don't want to argue just want to get your opinion and eventually why would you disagree with it

 

[Braiyan]

Each time Naruto fell for one of Itachi's genjutsus, it was a genjutsu that he had no knowledge of beforehand. By the next time they met, he would have adjusted his strategy to include the genjutsu he previously had no knowledge of, which is why he avoided both finger and Sharingan genjutsu from Itachi's eyes and tried to assault him with clones from behind when they met in the forest.

KCM Naruto doesn't suddenly lose that knowledge. Landing a genjutsu on him will become even harder with that knowledge taken into account, and the fact that he's significantly faster with a faster-than-V2-Ay Shunshin, the ability to make clones at least as fast as V1 Ay and the fact that both him and the clones are able to make chakra arms means he will outclass Itachi in a close range battle. Add in Rasengan variants like Planetary Rasengan and Odama Rasenshuriken, along with toad summons and Food Cart Destroyer, and Itachi gets overwhelmed.

 

[Kamui Sama]

Ama gets nullified by chakra arms removing the flames, he doesn't even need to dodge it lol

 

[Conspirator.]

Naruto shits on him.

 

[Apêx1]

Naruto clowns him even at the beginning of the war. Amaterasu was avoided by someone slower than Naruto in canon, forget about it landing on him here. Multiple clones means he can't land Genjutsu on the original, unless he takes out the clones first. Susanoo gets obliterated by multiple FRS and Itachi gets vaporized along with them.

No, he doesn't. Sasuke's Amateratsu was avoided by v2 Ay, who is as fast as KCM Naruto (if not faster). And this was achieved via after image, which Naruto is not capable of (meaning Ay has greater acceleration speed). Itachi's MS will keep track of KCM Naruto and hit. And do note,

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, meaning if it was in fact aimed at him, he would likely have been hit. Clones are still prone to Genjutsu, meaning Itachi can slowly, but surely reach the original Naruto. And with infinite chakra, he has all the time he needs to sit in v4+Yata combo and spam Genjutsu with crow bunshins and crow summons (and himself, albeit with Tsukiyomi). Susano is not getting obliterated by anything.

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, so it stops at Yata before it even begins to reach a v4 Susano it won't be scratching. Itachi wins this.

hmm... ok, I see that you are very good debater.

@ bold part , has it been ever impled/hinted ?

I meant I know about ridiculous hype of Yata Mirror and Totsuka blade, but databook states any attack.

Correct me if I am wrong but last time I checked grab is not attack by itself it can only be used as medium to use attack while grabbing something/someone, right ?



and last time I checked grab is not considered as attack:

grab
verb
1. To get hold of (something moving):
catch, clutch, seize, snatch.
Informal: nab.
Idiom: lay hands on.
2. To take firmly with the hand and maintain a hold on:
clasp, clench, clutch, grapple, grasp, grip, seize.
3. To take quick and forcible possession of:
commandeer, confiscate, expropriate, seize, snatch.
Idiom: help oneself to.
4. Slang. To compel, as the attention, interest, or imagination, of:
arrest, catch up, enthrall, fascinate, grip, hold, mesmerize, rivet, spellbind, transfix.
noun
The act of catching, especially a sudden taking and holding:
catch, clutch, seizure, snatch.

What do you think about it ? I don't want to argue just want to get your opinion and eventually why would you disagree with it

taaanx, you too bro.

And it's implicative. If a pushing force like Hydra heads were sent backwards, then a pulling/gripping force like Bansho Tenin/grabbing would be nullified in the same way; Yata pushing the away from itself. Grabbing not referring to attack isn't a genuine refutation, because by that logic, I could say pulling isn't under attacking references either. Yet we both know that pulling would be countered (for example, Bansho Tenin). So we are capable of conclusively saying that any force, no matter how large or small, would be deflected by Yata mirror. Example; Shinra Tensei hits Yata mirror from every single spot. That's the equivalent of a large hand grabbing the Yata, but with far more force. Only because the grip is far weaker does not mean it's not going to be counted as a potential attack, and nullified.

 

[KidGamer65]

No, he doesn't. Sasuke's Amateratsu was avoided by v2 Ay, who is as fast as KCM Naruto.

KCM Naruto is faster than him. And it's not close.

Itachi's MS will keep track of KCM Naruto and hit.

Why would Itachi's MS do what Sasuke's MS failed to do? Why would Amaterasu hit him when a slower guy evaded it? Even if this is possible, if Naruto Shunshin's out of Itachi's LoS just like Ay did to Sasuke, it won't matter if he can track him. He can't physically react to KCM Naruto's speed, and he needs to turn his head around to get someone who's moved to his backside.

And do note, Naruto was completely surprised Amateratsu missed him, meaning if it was in fact aimed at him, he would likely have been hit.

Yeah, he's surprised it was completely off mark, that doesn't mean that he was sitting there expecting to get hit. Lol.

Clones are still prone to Genjutsu, meaning Itachi can slowly, but surely reach the original Naruto.

Yeah, eventually. He'd have to land Genjutsu on every single clone all before Naruto takes him out, combined with the fact they won't be sitting there waiting for him to hit them with Genjutsu, this isn't a good strategy. Also, Tobirama says when the original manipulates chakra, the divided chakras move with it. [

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] It's possible that if Naruto disturbs his chakra if a clone gets caught, the rest of the clones chakras will be disturbed, thus freeing them.

And with infinite chakra, he has all the time he needs to sit in v4+Yata combo and spam Genjutsu with crow bunshins and crow summons (and himself, albeit with Tsukiyomi).

Still has to hit the clones, and still has to do so before Naruto takes Itachi out.

Susano is not getting obliterated by anything. FRS is nullified by repellant forces, so it stops at Yata before it even begins to reach a v4 Susano it won't be scratching. Itachi wins this.

FRS was nullified by Shinra Tensei, a repellent force. Doesn't mean that every repellent force can nullify it, nor does Yata Mirror produce repellent forces. Multiple FRS tear apart Itachi and his Armored Susanoo. Yata has nothing but it's no limits fallacy supporting it, and V4 Susanoo on it's own isn't strong enough to tank multiple FRS.

 

[KCMNaruto]

taaanx, you too bro.

And it's implicative. If a pushing force like Hydra heads were sent backwards, then a pulling/gripping force like Bansho Tenin/grabbing would be nullified in the same way; Yata pushing the away from itself.

hmm... good point but let's say that Pulling is force which work on it so Yata can take it as attack and render it useless.
However grabbing without gripping force involved shouldn't be considered as attack, or else why Yata allow Susanoo to wield it ?

you know holding/wiedling something also requires something to be in grip, so either Yata can recognize wielder or one side can be grabbed while other can not because clearly it doesn;t have handle to grab it by it.

Could it think for itself ? because else how could it differ it from being grabbed by something else. Until now nothing imply or hints that so.

Grabbing not referring to attack isn't a genuine refutation, because by that logic, I could say pulling isn't under attacking references either. Yet we both know that pulling would be countered (for example, Bansho Tenin). So we are capable of conclusively saying that any force, no matter how large or small, would be deflected by Yata mirror.

hmm but pulling force something/someone to move in your direction same with pushing but in opposite way it forces it backwards.

I would agree if it was used to pull or push yata, but what if it just lock it in place so it could not be moved ?

Example; Shinra Tensei hits Yata mirror from every single spot. That's the equivalent of a large hand grabbing the Yata, but with far more force. Only because the grip is far weaker does not mean it's not going to be counted as a potential attack, and nullified.

Well that wasn't best example to prove that. I mean comparing push force to grabbing one is not right thing to do.

It would be more correct to consider Shinra tensei/pushing force as punching force/ great fist colliding with it or even pure shockwave hitting it straight on, The grabbing itself and keeping something in place shouldn't be called attack, correct ?

Only what you do after grabbing aka trying to rip it from grip or push it.

 

[makosheva7]

Itachi has his edo feats except for his "immortality".

KCM Naruto is the one from the beginning of the war arc. Not the current one.

nice sig!!!!

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Well, considering this is the one in the beginning of the war arc, Itachi might take this via genjutsu since Naruto was not a perfect jin. However, KCM Naruto is not to be underestimated. He can, in fact, use clones with it, and with spamming powerful jutsus from any angle, he could pose a threat to Itachi.

 

[LuckyMan]

Naruto low difficulties him and that's being generous.

 

[Apêx1]

KCM Naruto is faster than him. And it's not close.

Based on what exactly?

Why would Itachi's MS do what Sasuke's MS failed to do? Why would Amaterasu hit him when a slower guy evaded it? Even if this is possible, if Naruto Shunshin's out of Itachi's LoS just like Ay did to Sasuke, it won't matter if he can track him. He can't physically react to KCM Naruto's speed, and he needs to turn his head around to get someone who's moved to his backside.

Sasuke just attained his MS. Itachi was proficient with it, and showed his eye's perceptive power to be above Sasuke's given he evaded Bee's sword dance far better than Sasuke died. And Lol, Naruto is not shunshin'ing behind Itachi while Itachi is about to initiate Amateratsu.

Yeah, he's surprised it was completely off mark, that doesn't mean that he was sitting there expecting to get hit. Lol.

Except Naruto was moving, Lol.

Yeah, eventually. He'd have to land Genjutsu on every single clone all before Naruto takes him out, combined with the fact they won't be sitting there waiting for him to hit them with Genjutsu, this isn't a good strategy. Also, Tobirama says when the original manipulates chakra, the divided chakras move with it. [

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] It's possible that if Naruto disturbs his chakra if a clone gets caught, the rest of the clones chakras will be disturbed, thus freeing them.

But Naruto can't take him out, so Itachi can do this tactic comfortably. Waiting or not, it doesn't matter. Naruto will be put into Genjutsu, again. Bold is pure conjecture.

Still has to hit the clones, and still has to do so before Naruto takes Itachi out.

Which he will be doing, since Naruto can't take him out.

FRS was nullified by Shinra Tensei, a repellent force. Doesn't mean that every repellent force can nullify it, nor does Yata Mirror produce repellent forces. Multiple FRS tear apart Itachi and his Armored Susanoo. Yata has nothing but it's no limits fallacy supporting it, and V4 Susanoo on it's own isn't strong enough to tank multiple FRS.

It was a small Shinra Tensei without hand movement, saying Yata, the godly weapon that can change its properties to any incoming attack won't stop it is ridiculous. There's also a clear difference between

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and

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. Hype can be downplayed, mechanics written by Kishi cannot. Itachi's health is his only limiter, and since he's edo in this scenario, he has no limiter. FRS will be defended against pretty easily, no reason for it not to be. Hydra heads were sent backwards in awkward angles. FRS not being deflected when a small Shinra Tensei repelled it has to be a joke. Not to mention, I have absolutely no reason to believe an FRS can scratch v3 Susano, let alone a v4 Susano, let alone a v4 Susano backed up by Yata Mirror. It's a baseless claim, FRS's best cutting feat is a boulder/human/trees/rocks. It has never even come close to anything with decent durability without being tanked. 1 FRS not scratching v4=100 FRS not scratching v4, because at the end of the day, more than one FRS isn't collectively increasing energy output.

 

[Bolt Rules]

Bruh Itachi negs. Yata mirror GG Totsuka GG Tsukuyomi GG Make this Current Naruto and he would still lose.

 

[Gremory]

13 Kage Bunshin capable of outrunning Ē's top speed are plenty to take care of the fight without the real Naruto getting involved. Itachi's projectiles are too slow to hit any of them and genjutsu is ineffective on clones. Considering all of them are able to fire Fūton: Rasenshuriken, Ōdama Rasenshuriken, Chōōdama Rasenshuriken Susano'o gets blasted into pieces and Itachi is caught inside the blast meaning he dies.

Naruto wins comfortably.
​

 

[KidGamer65]

Based on what exactly?

Based on KCM Naruto easily evading his top speed. Based on the whole obvious point of the encounter to parallel Minato to Naruto, and how they both outsped Ay.

You don't do this to someone you are equal in speed with. [

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] [

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] Lol

Sasuke just attained his MS. Itachi was proficient with it, and showed his eye's perceptive power to be above Sasuke's given he evaded Bee's sword dance far better than Sasuke died.

When he unlocked it is irrelevant. No evidence in the manga points to that having any bearing on precognition ability.

Uh, that's because Itachi is faster, not because his Sharingan itself perceives more than Sasuke's does. Not to mention I'm still not seeing the proof for Itachi's Amaterasu hitting Naruto when Sasuke failed to hit Ay. You may say that Itachi>Sasuke in speed, but KCM Naruto>Ay in speed, and it's not close nor are they equal.

And Lol, Naruto is not shunshin'ing behind Itachi while Itachi is about to initiate Amateratsu.

Based on what exactly? Cause nothing Itachi is doing stops Naruto from doing so, nor does anything Naruto is doing stop him from doing so.

Except Naruto was moving, Lol.

Except that doesn't change the point. Not to mention I only see him move after the dog gets hit. Before he was on the dog, fighting it.

But Naruto can't take him out, so Itachi can do this tactic comfortably. Waiting or not, it doesn't matter. Naruto will be put into Genjutsu, again. Bold is pure conjecture.

Except he can.

No, it's not. Tobirama stated that divided chakra moves in resonance with the main body's-Fact. Disturbance of chakra is chakra being used-Fact. Meaning the same will happen to the other clones. There is no missing info that'd lead to this being conjecture. Unless you have a good counter argument, there's no reason why this doesn't make sense.

Which he will be doing, since Naruto can't take him out.

He can.

It was a small Shinra Tensei without hand movement, saying Yata, the godly weapon that can change its properties to any incoming attack won't stop it is ridiculous.

Yata is a shield, Shinra Tensei is not. They work in completely different ways. Completely different. So stop comparing them. Hyping it up by calling it a godly weapon, and then referencing DB hype isn't any form of a counter attack.

There's also a clear difference between

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and

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. Hype can be downplayed, mechanics written by Kishi cannot

.
Oh Jesus, this argument again. Sure, Yata can change it's properties to stop an attack, doesn't mean it has the capability to stop every attack, which is what pretty much everybody who tries and argue for the mirror claims, based on "mechanics", and stating it can do so with no evidence means that you are just using the No Limits Fallacy.

Itachi's health is his only limiter, and since he's edo in this scenario, he has no limiter. FRS will be defended against pretty easily, no reason for it not to be. Hydra heads were sent backwards in awkward angles.

Yes, deflecting Hydra Heads means it can deflect FRS. Lol

FRS not being deflected when a small Shinra Tensei repelled it has to be a joke.

What's a joke is you comparing a shield to Shinra Tensei, when they don't work in the same way.

Not to mention, I have absolutely no reason to believe an FRS can scratch v3 Susano, let alone a v4 Susano, let alone a v4 Susano backed up by Yata Mirror. It's a baseless claim, FRS's best cutting feat is a boulder/human/trees/rocks. It has never even come close to anything with decent durability without being tanked.

V3 got ripped open by Danzo's Fuuton. Stands no chance in hell of tanking more than one FRS. No chance in hell. Also, only cutting boulders and rocks? Downplay is absolutely ridiculous.

-These

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it cut through were large fragments of the CT that had just collapsed. Cut through 5-6 of them before

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, and that explosion took up all that area we see there and had enough energy to kick those rocks that far up into the air. Inb4 that "it's just smoke from the wind sphere". Wrong.

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.

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.

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. Madara and Hashirama's clash produced an explosion, what FRS did looks the same, so don't try and say it's not an explosion.

Then there is also the fact it's much stronger than

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, which is more powerful than

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, which can put

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big a hole in a boulder. Scale that boulder damage up to Chou Oodama Rasengan's level, and then multiply it by 25. FRS is FAR stronger than that considering Kurama took 25 of those Chou Oodama Rasengan and shook it off a second later, but took 1 FRS and was briefly knocked down, and had trouble getting up, and had visible damage.

Maybe you can argue it taking one, but more than one? Uh, yeah. Not happening. Ever.

1 FRS not scratching v4=100 FRS not scratching v4, because at the end of the day, more than one FRS isn't collectively increasing energy output.

Not even sure if serious. If more than one FRS hits at the same time, it takes all that damage, at the same time, thus the energy applied to the Susanoo increases, thus it takes more damage. Just like a bundle of rocks will do more damage to a window than one rock. Simple logic.

 

[Sennin of Logic]

Come to think of it. Even genjutsu will fail Itachi. It doesn't work on clones, so Naruto's clones+KCM will overwhelm him. He probably won't even get the chance for that. Tsukyomi and other genjutsu aren't that much of a threat.

 

[take it easy]

Why people still keep saying that "Itachi neggs Naruto via genjutsu? His knowledge about genjutsu+clones+great chakra control shits on any genjutsu in Itachi's arsenal.

 

[-Akuma-]

Why people still keep saying that "Itachi neggs Naruto via genjutsu? His knowledge about genjutsu+clones+great chakra control shits on any genjutsu in Itachi's arsenal.

You're an idiot if you think KCM Naruto is shitting Tsukomi when Naruto said it would work on perfect jins, but Naruto isn't getting hit by genjustu tho.

 

[Bogard]

Naruto low diff

- He has full knowledge on Itachi, so will avoid eye contact and fight with sensing on. His chakra control as well as partner method also render this moot

- Amaterasu is useless infront of the chakra cloak, let alone Naruto's speed

- Sasuke's choku tomoe has greater perceptive ability than Itachi's eye ability, yet it couldn't keep track with V2 Raikage's shunshin speed, so Itachi couldn't follow his shunshin as well. KCM Naruto's shunshin is equal if not greater than Raikage's, so he may actually manage to blitz him at any moment(assuming Itachi doesn't have Susanoo up, something he can't maintain for long)

- Susanoo will be destroyed by a CORS

Add that into the fact, he can create multiple clones not only to outnumber Itachi, removing any genjutsu danger, but also to use all his most dangerous techniques at once and it's easy to see he doesn't stand a chance

 

[-Akuma-]

Naruto low diff

- He has full knowledge on Itachi, so will avoid eye contact and fight with sensing on. His chakra control as well as partner method also render this moot

- Amaterasu is useless infront of the chakra cloak, let alone Naruto's speed

- Sasuke's choku tomoe has greater perceptive ability than Itachi's eye ability, yet it couldn't keep track with V2 Raikage's shunshin speed, so Itachi couldn't follow his shunshin as well. KCM Naruto's shunshin is equal if not greater than Raikage's, so he may actually manage to blitz him at any moment(assuming Itachi doesn't have Susanoo up, something he can't maintain for long)

- Susanoo will be destroyed by a CORS

Add that into the fact, he can create multiple clones not only to outnumber Itachi, removing any genjutsu danger, but also to use all his most dangerous techniques at once and it's easy to see he doesn't stand a chance

I thought he could only sense evil intent with KCM on, plus I doubt Kage summit Sasuke has better reflexes than Itachi. I'm not arguing that Itachi wins just pointing that out.