[Theory] Kamui and Kotoamatsukami; other powers of the Mangekyō Sharingan

[Draphsin]

You do realize that Itachi speaks Itachinese right... so basically he seriously does mean that ama/Tsukuyomi is required to awaken Susanoo as it is just something that is "rarely" awakened as only 3 Uchiha have only been seen to have been used... two of whom btw have both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi and we have not really seen all of Madaras movesets anyway

...Not sure if serious :|

That is actually a fair response. However, at the time, Tsukiyomi didn't have a name- and what he described is almost exactly what Itachi told Kakashi in part one.

Yes, they behave similarly but they arent the same. Tsukuyomi is a powerful genjutsu that allows the user to manipulate the genjutsu in any way he sees fit. Madara did the same thing to obito however he used a regular sharingan genjutsu. This means that the gedo mazou's chakra allowed madara to perform a more powerful genjutsu, but it was not a mangekyou dojutsu.

So Itachi has tsukuyomi, an MS dojutsu which allows the manipulation of one's own genjutsu. & madara has a regular 3-T sharingan genjutsu, powered by the mazous chakra. They both do similar things, have similar names, but they are different.

 

[moongem]

...Not sure if serious :|



Yes, they behave similarly but they arent the same. Tsukuyomi is a powerful genjutsu that allows the user to manipulate the genjutsu in any way he sees fit. Madara did the same thing to obito however he used a regular sharingan genjutsu. This means that the gedo mazou's chakra allowed madara to perform a more powerful genjutsu, but it was not a mangekyou dojutsu.

So Itachi has tsukuyomi, an MS dojutsu which allows the manipulation of one's own genjutsu. & madara has a regular 3-T sharingan genjutsu, powered by the mazous chakra. They both do similar things, have similar names, but they are different.

Maybe it's just a personal preference, but with the name 'infinite tsukiyomi' and a genjutsu that similar to it in name and effect; I'm saying it's all the same genjutsu. Tsukiyomi

 

[Draphsin]

Maybe it's just a personal preference, but with the name 'infinite tsukiyomi' and a genjutsu that similar to it in name and effect; I'm saying it's all the same genjutsu. Tsukiyomi

Even though clear proof shows you otherwise? Okay fine by me, as long as you know that you're denying what was shown to us, because madara casting a 3-T genjutsu with an eye that isnt even his (forgot to mention that) is more than enough proof to tell me that he's using a different genjutsu, but with similar effects.

 

[SasukeTheViper EMS]

That is an interesting theory. However, you are mistaken about the reason as to why Obito has yet to lose his sight despite his excessive use of the ability granted by his Mangekyō Sharingan—it has nothing to do with him not having siblings and therefore not being able to gain "eternal light;" the reason is that half of Obito's body was reconstructed using Senju cells.

 

[moongem]

That is an interesting theory. However, you are mistaken about the reason as to why Obito has yet to lose his sight despite his excessive use of the ability granted by his Mangekyō Sharingan—it has nothing to do with him not having siblings and therefore not being able to gain "eternal light"; the reason is that half of Obito's body was reconstructed using Senju cells.

Is this true? Like, was it stated in the manga, or is that your assumption? That possibility didn't even cross my mind.

Even though clear proof shows you otherwise? Okay fine by me, as long as you know that you're denying what was shown to us, because madara casting a 3-T genjutsu with an eye that isnt even his (forgot to mention that) is more than enough proof to tell me that he's using a different genjutsu, but with similar effects.

Hah, to be fair, I'm sure it's shown Obito use Kamui with a three-tomoe sharingan, no?

 

[Draphsin]

The only time that's been done is when kishi wanted to hide obito's MS design. Obito cannot logically go intangible without his MS activated.

EDIT:

moongem

Uhh, did you delete your post..?

 

[SasukeTheViper EMS]

Is this true? Like, was it stated in the manga, or is that your assumption? That possibility didn't even cross my mind.

It was not stated in a direct manner, but it can be inferred, considering that we have seen Senju cells being used in order to boost the vitality of Dōjutsu users.

 

[moongem]

The only time that's been done is when kishi wanted to hide obito's MS design. Obito cannot logically go intangible without his MS activated.

EDIT: Uhh, did you delete your post..?

Deleted my double post and merged it with the other!

 

[Naijakid]

Love the thread......

 

[Logical Chaos]

Dope theory, but My theory is a different.

I believe Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi are rare among the Uchiha so those who unlock MS won't have AMA/Tysukiomi but there own special ability

 

[moongem]

It was not stated in a direct manner, but it can be inferred, considering that we have seen Senju cells being used in order to boost the vitality of Dōjutsu users.

Boost vitality? Hm, I guess it could be that.

 

[SixPathsOfTobi]

It was not stated in a direct manner, but it can be inferred, considering that we have seen Senju cells being used in order to boost the vitality of Dōjutsu users.

plus that kakashi does get blind.. at least he asked itachi how much sight he had lost because of his own experience with MS

 

[GodaimeRaikage]

Decent theory but your assumption is wrong.

Madara does not possess amaterasu or tsukuyomi.

So stupid.If Madara doesn't have those abilities how is he going to project his eyes off the moon to cast infinite tsukuyomi?What mangs have you been reading?

 

[Draphsin]

So stupid.If Madara doesn't have those abilities how is he going to project his eyes off the moon to cast infinite tsukuyomi?What mangs have you been reading?

Read the goddamn thread before spouting bull

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[marijuanna]

what happens if the parent's of the guy who just awoke his MS have another child later in life? Dont aswer that it's rhetorical. But seriously, if Obito can do the plan by himself (as he is currently trying to), then how could it require a tsukuyomi user, you stated yourself that he doesnt have it.

 

[AlexM123]

Give me one single shred of evidence that suggests madara has ama/tsukuyomi, come on try me. I guarantee you ill rebut it.

You want proof? Here:

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From the third data book written by KISHIMOTO HIMSELF. SUSANO'O REQUIRES BOTH AMATERASU AND TSUKUYOMI.

 

[HarrisonX]

Decent theory but your assumption is wrong.

Madara does not possess amaterasu or tsukuyomi.

Yes he does. You have to have both Amaterasu and Tsukuyomi to have Susanoo.... And if he didn't even have Tsukuyomi why would he want to use Infinite Tsukuyomi? duh....

OT: Yes, nice theory!

 

[moongem]

You want proof? Here:

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From the third data book written by KISHIMOTO HIMSELF. SUSANO'O REQUIRES BOTH AMATERASU AND TSUKUYOMI.

Thanks for this! I thought so... and it can't get any more official then that!

 

[Wood Style Hashi]

We've seen obito having a huge arsenal of sharingan eyes. Could it be possible that he has already attained the EMS from another mangekyo? (I'm not sure, but I don't remember it having to be strictly your brother's eye).

Also for Shisui, we are unsure how many times he has used his eye. Seeing that at the point of his death he is in his 20s and his eyes take a decade to 'recover', he could only have used it a few times - which wouldn't be detrimental to his eyesight!

 

[moongem]

We've seen obito having a huge arsenal of sharingan eyes. Could it be possible that he has already attained the EMS from another mangekyo? (I'm not sure, but I don't remember it having to be strictly your brother's eye).

Also for Shisui, we are unsure how many times he has used his eye. Seeing that at the point of his death he is in his 20s and his eyes take a decade to 'recover', he could only have used it a few times - which wouldn't be detrimental to his eyesight!

Ah, wasn't it stated that Madara and Izuna were the first to unlock the Mangekyo? As we didn't hear about anyone else, we can assume no one else had a Mangekyo for Obito to steal. I'm sure all those stolen eyes were so he could use Izanagi on multiple occasions.

Also, yeah. As far as Shisui went, we'll never know. His technique made it impossible for him to overuse. If blindness was possible, it would never be an issue.