Kakashi #1 in the Manga

[bigfatloser]

itachi is around 9th overall and he 1 shot kakashi like a fodder . Kakashi trembled in fear before oro, who is at about 12-13th since he lost to itachi/sasuke..
kakashi got trapped by zabuzas water prison in part 1. On his own, he showed he didnt have the stamina to beat kakuzu, who is def below oro. Want me to go on?

so pre-powerup kakashi isn't in top 20. but with kamui itachi gets 1 shot, oro gets 1 shot, zabuza gets 1 shot. kakuzu and his hearts would be tough. and I would say kakuzu and oro would be a good match, kakuzu is by no means significantly weaker then oro.

 

[bigfatloser]

He saw both the nail and the arrow before they were fired and already had his MS activated at such times. it was a stright on attack so focus was already established. We're dealing with real-time manga, your speculative opinion (to suit your argument of course) plays no part in that.

I will concede on the fact that if kakashi starts with headband down he is not #1. it takes too long to raise.
Kakashi without headband is still #1. The greatest powerup kakashi could get would be to lose his headband.

 

[bigfatloser]

He saw both the nail and the arrow before they were fired and already had his MS activated at such times. it was a stright on attack so focus was already established. We're dealing with real-time manga, your speculative opinion (to suit your argument of course) plays no part in that.

oh and as for seeing the projectiles ahead of time, I just want to note that. 1) he didn't know how fast they would come at him. and 2) he can't create a kamui barrier, he needs to use it directly on the object in question, in this case extremely fast and small objects. He still managed to react faster then he could dodge and kamui exactly where he needed to. don't try and say he could figure out where and when to kamui while the projectiles were still being 'loaded' or shown to him.

 

[Champ]

He's number 1 at making an entrance other then that he's the best at getting owned later on in the fight

This is true

 

[Waltz]

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Seems that someone didn't understand that the power of kamui depends on the size of the jutsu. To warp large objects, Kakashi needs to accumulate a great amount of chakra in order to create the size of a kamui powerful enough to warp the thing. It has nothing to do with the speed of the jutsu, but it has to do with the capacity to warp the object in question. Kakashi could have use kamui instantly if he wanted against Gedo Mazo, only that it wouldn't have work because the size of the kamui he could instantly create isn't large enough

No need to explain the obvious. MS takes litte time to activate and could've easily been done in the time it took danzo to activate izanagi [

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] Focus on the target is still required and the jutsu itself is projected from the eye at some speed not forgetting the warping process which also takes some time to completely absorb an opponent; if fast enough they can evade [

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[Sabuto Hayashi]

I see what you're saying, but I disagree.

Whilst Kakashi may be in the top 20, Kamui anyone with speed feats or S/T jutsu can easily avoid Kamui.
It takes time for Kamui to warp objects as it's not instantaneous (see Minato vs. Obito, any time that Tobi teleports himself), and I doubt many will just stand there to let Kakashi activate his Mangekyo to get a shot at them.

Kakashi only has very few chances to successfully pull off Kamui. His stamina will be drained by using the Sharingan, allowing many characters to defeat him through sheer endurance if he misses frequently.

Not only that, but there are situations where Kamui cannot be used.
Shinra Tensei or Banshō Ten'in can affect Kakashi's stability, throwing his line-of-sight off. Susano'o, Sand manipulation, etc. might also be used to block the opponent from view, causing only the object infront of them to be warped away.
Large-scale jutsu, such as Wood Release Secret Technique: Nativity of a World of Trees, would force Kakashi to move and make it extremely difficult to aim.
Genjutsu, like Bringer-of-Darkness Technique that would effectively conceal the user, could also prevent Kakashi's success.

Long story short, Kakashi is far from #1. Kamui alone is not enough for him to be deemed powerful.

 

[Sharingankingitachi]

If everyone knew kamui would they just stand there and get killed

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Of course they will try to do something
Minato can throw his FTG kumai
Itachi can activate susanoo
Naruto can enter BM or KM and try to dodge it

 

[Champ]

Come on even the most hardcore fans of Kakashi that masturbate to his poster don't say such things...

Hahahahaha

 

[bigfatloser]

No need to explain the obvious. MS takes litte time to activate and could've easily been done in the time it took danzo to activate izanagi [

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] Focus on the target is still required and the jutsu itself is projected from the eye at some speed not forgetting the warping process which also takes some time to completely absorb an opponent; if fast enough they can evade [

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The jutsu is projected from the eye. That is interesting because it would mean you could only kamui away the surface of a persons body, not the insides. Assuming it works like amaratsu, the jutsu itself takes no time to get to the target. Still, most of the vital organs are inches below the surface of the skin.

What makes me skeptical that kakashis kamui takes time in a similar way to obitos is how it reacted to the projectiles. In the case of the nail, the kamui kakashi used was only slightly larger then the nail itself. if it did not act instantly, the nail would have at least partially pasted through the kamui and into kakashi. Same goes for susanno's arrow, if the kamui did not act instantly, or very near instantly, the arrow would have passed through kakashis kamui attempt and killed him.

 

[DeathandEnvy]

He's deffitnetly not number one, and guys i have never heard anything related to this but does kamui make you go blind? you are using your mangekyo sharingan but i haven't seen Tobi go blind i presume it won't right?

 

[bigfatloser]

He's deffitnetly not number one, and guys i have never heard anything related to this but does kamui make you go blind? you are using your mangekyo sharingan but i haven't seen Tobi go blind i presume it won't right?

It does, obito has hashi dna

 

[Waltz]

The jutsu is projected from the eye. That is interesting because it would mean you could only kamui away the surface of a persons body, not the insides. Assuming it works like amaratsu, the jutsu itself takes no time to get to the target. Still, most of the vital organs are inches below the surface of the skin.

What makes me skeptical that kakashis kamui takes time in a similar way to obitos is how it reacted to the projectiles. In the case of the nail, the kamui kakashi used was only slightly larger then the nail itself. if it did not act instantly, the nail would have at least partially pasted through the kamui and into kakashi. Same goes for susanno's arrow, if the kamui did not act instantly, or very near instantly, the arrow would have passed through kakashis kamui attempt and killed him.

oh and as for seeing the projectiles ahead of time, I just want to note that. 1) he didn't know how fast they would come at him. and 2) he can't create a kamui barrier, he needs to use it directly on the object in question, in this case extremely fast and small objects. He still managed to react faster then he could dodge and kamui exactly where he needed to. don't try and say he could figure out where and when to kamui while the projectiles were still being 'loaded' or shown to him.

The speed doesn't matter. Kamui itself is projected from his mangekyou and has warped things at

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even at the initial point of projection; the nail at point blank range. Not to mention using it on himself. About the bold, distance has to always be taking into account as kamui was never said to be an instantaneous technique. It would be quicker to warp an object at close range than from far away as less focus is required. As bogard said, it doesn't change the speed of the technique it self but it's execution time by kakashi.

 

[Thundercles]

How did Kamui do against Pain?

 

[XMorpheus]

Muhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

 

[Draphsin]

lol name me 1 person that kakashi has killed with kamui?

 

[kakashi ms]

yes kakashi ca one shot any one in the start of the fight even madara and hashirama
speed don't work against kamui as kakashi warped naruto without obito who has sharingan note
sohis kamui is above the reaction
kakashi ue kamui well now he can sue it at least 12 times

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kakashi took kuaram chakra here

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and herr shikamaru's father agree that and named times which kakshi did with kuaram chakra and manga showed where he took it

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kakashi doesn't need time to gather chakra he warped 2 susano arrow although his ms was locked
kakashi is top 10 easily

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[shelke]

Oh God, this epidemic again. He's barely top twenty, let alone top ten and sitting at first place is just bordering on logical and full-abandoned madness.

 

[NarutoKage2]

so pre-powerup kakashi isn't in top 20. but with kamui itachi gets 1 shot, oro gets 1 shot, zabuza gets 1 shot. kakuzu and his hearts would be tough. and I would say kakuzu and oro would be a good match, kakuzu is by no means significantly weaker then oro.

Re read the manga, noob. Kakashi awoke his ms before part 1 even started so everything you just stated is invalid. Technically he had kamui right from the start.

Fact: all 4 revived hokages own him, fact: all big name uchiha like madara, itachi obito shisui and sasuke beat him. Thats not even including the likes of nagato and kabuto etc.

 

[DeathandEnvy]

Nah Kakashi is probably top 15 or top 20, deffitnetly not number, he got killed by pain.

 

[kakashi ms]

Nah Kakashi is probably top 15 or top 20, deffitnetly not number, he got killed by pain.

yes that was old kakashi who hadn't used even kamui directly on pain if he had did pain would have died
current kakashi is deference he can beat nagato alone