[Theory] Kaguya's origin, the mythological basis of the Naruto series, and common errors.

Orochimagus

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
1,187
Kin
4💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Okay, I haven't seen a thread get into much detail for Kaguya except for the ignorant haters who seem to have little to no background on the myths behind the series. I'll try to keep the sections concise since a lot of people don't like walls of text, but let's start with the biggie on who Kaguya represents:
Aditi (Sanskrit: अदिति "limitless") is mother of the gods. As celestial mother of every existing form and being, the synthesis of all things, she is associated with space (Hence Kaguya's dimensional abilities). She may be seen as a feminized form of Brahma.
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images


In the myths she is the mother of the god of thunder, Indra (who is the most powerful) and Varuna (Who is the leader of the Asura, which are the lowest of the gods, hence why Indra is said to have talent over Asura by Hagoromo).

Varuna Asura:
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Indra:
You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images


Varuna is known as the god of cosmic order, hence Naruto gained the power of creation, and Indra as the wielder of the most powerful force of nature grants Sasuke the power of destruction. The myths state that once a year they join as Indra-Varuna to establish order.

With the main players out of the way, we have to get to the generic purpose of the entire Naruto manga, which is Kishimoto's tribute to the entirety of the Japanese history.

The period of warfare mentioned by Hashirama can be traced to the real world Japan to at least and possibly before the Yayoi period (300 BC – 250 AD). All of Japan was at constant civil war between clans and aside from power struggles, no one knows what caused this dark period of constant battle. Warfare shaped the religions of Japan which affected their religions.

Shinto - Kishimoto represents the original religion of Japan as the Uchiha clan.
The native religion (660BC) is represented by the Uchiha eye techniques. In the myths Izanagi and Izanami are creator god and goddess respectively. When Izanami died, Izanagi tried to save her from the underworld but fled when he saw how decomposed her corpse had become. Later on he would come to birth Amaterasu and Tsukiyomi from his eyes, and Susanoo from his nose. This religion had a rather bleak view of the afterlife, which made it an easy target for assimilation by the later religion...

Buddhism - Kishimoto represents the foreign religion as the Senju clan.
In 552 or 538 a Buddha image was given to the Yamato leader which profoundly changed the course of Japanese religious history.This religion already had a history of assimilating other religions as it did in India, China, and the Korean peninsula. Indra is an example of an Indian deity they took into their lore. The Senju clearly show Buddhism through techniques like Shinsusenju.

Shinbutsu-shūgō (Shinto-Bhuddism) - Kishimoto represents this as Yinyang or the Six Paths power of both clans combined.
Buddhism brought for the idea of the cycle of rebirth which was seen as a much better than the notion of death in Shinto lore, hence why the Naruto series follows closely with their notion of the afterlife along with the Rinnegan and paths.

All of these things follow the path of Japanese lore and Kishimoto also made sure to pay tribute to the popular folktales such as the Tale of the Gallant Jiraiya, Journey to the West, and the tale of Princess Kaguya and the Bamboo Cutter. As history has a defined path, this means Kishimoto had a pretty good idea of the big plot points he was going to follow from beginning to middle to end of the series so time to cover a couple of misconceptions.

Kishimoto did not have the Indra/Asura thing visualized at the beginning of the series and pulled it all out of his bamboo hole.

False of course. He had already decided to give Sasuke a lightning affinity because he was to reach his peak of power as the thunder god. In fact, the entirety of part 1 is just Kishimoto setting up the plot points that were to lead to the Sage of Six Path's lineage. Wood Release, the Sharingan, Kaguya Clan's bone technique, Byakugan, and even Senjutsu through Orochimaru's cursed seals. This also leads to the even bigger misconception...

The Moon's Eye Plan was changed to be evil at the last minute because the fans were split on their opinion of it. Derp derp.


Completely false, just like Kishimoto had planned for the Indra/Asura thing, he had of course planned for Kaguya to be final villain since the very beginning. This comes down to how important of a role Aditi fills in the myths along with the Kaguya folktale which happens to be the OLDEST Japanese lore. Kishimoto decided to combine the biggest folktale of Japan with the most important deity of the foreign religion so of course Kaguya was going to be the single, most powerful being in the Naruto series since the beginning. The proponents of this silly accusation make their claims on mere assumption and ignore the template Kishimoto has followed from beginning to end.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: D e l t a

Limbo

Banned
Elite
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
6,889
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
didn't read to long

ot: kaguya should be considered filler, the real story line goes Naruto and sasky gets power up ------>they take on JJ Madara with 3 eyes---------->They defeat him----------->Sasuke and Naruto have their own fight------------->conclusion-------------->end
 

LordRaikage

Active member
Elite
Joined
Mar 30, 2011
Messages
6,944
Kin
54💸
Kumi
9💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
didn't read to long

ot: kaguya should be considered filler, the real story line goes Naruto and sasky gets power up ------>they take on JJ Madara with 3 eyes---------->They defeat him----------->Sasuke and Naruto have their own fight------------->conclusion-------------->end
wow madara fanboys are still hurting.
 

Orochimagus

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
1,187
Kin
4💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Madara's fanboys will always rectally bleed, Lord Raikage; they don't know about mythology.

Anyways, there's a legend about Indravaruna fighting against the Serpent King to restore order...I wonder if that's where it's heading with Orochimaru being antagonist of the following Naruto movie.

And no, it does not count as flat out Buddhism, Pansykiller. It's more of two religions melding into a new one. In fact, the series could be seen as Kishimoto rebelling against the assimilation of the Shinto roots by how the Uchiha keep acting.
 
Last edited:

Orochimagus

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
1,187
Kin
4💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
I think the Naruto manga has to dictate who's above who, Madara Legs. The manga already showed Hagoromo, Black Zetsu, Kaguya, Naruto, and Sasuke were all above Madara. Of course you already know that but choose to disregard it because of mere opinion. It's fine, Madara is the strongest in the Naruto universe in your head.
 

Limbo

Banned
Elite
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
6,889
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The manga already showed Hagoromo, Black Zetsu, Kaguya, Naruto, and Sasuke were all above Madara.
Lol, not sure if ur serious or not, the only ones who are above Madara is Kaguya and Hagormoo, if you think that the others are above Madara then you are a complete retard and denying Manga.
 

Orochimagus

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
1,187
Kin
4💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
I'm sorry to prove you wrong with manga facts over mere opinion but Sasuke = Hagoromo > Madara as stated by manga. He reached the highest state of Susanoo, a feat above Madara. It's okay, maybe in another life Madara will be fourth place, but in this world the tier list is as follows:

Kaguya > Hagoromo=Sasuke=Naruto > Orochimaru > Madara

You must be registered for see images
 
Last edited:

CDT23

Active member
Regular
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
1,886
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Madara's fanboys will always rectally bleed, Lord Raikage; they don't know about mythology.

Anyways, there's a legend about Indravaruna fighting against the Serpent King to restore order...I wonder if that's where it's heading with Orochimaru being antagonist of the following Naruto movie.

And no, it does not count as flat out Buddhism, Pansykiller. It's more of two religions melding into a new one. In fact, the series could be seen as Kishimoto rebelling against the assimilation of the Shinto roots by how the Uchiha keep acting.
I think Orochimarus character is already from a different myth. He's the Yamat no Orochi mean't to be slain by Susano, hence Orochimaru met his end by getting chopped in his fight with Itachi. Ofcourse he came back so Kishi could be using him again.
 

Limbo

Banned
Elite
Joined
Aug 30, 2012
Messages
6,889
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
I'm sorry to prove you wrong with manga facts over mere opinion but Sasuke = Hagoromo > Madara as stated by manga. He reached the highest state of Susanoo, a feat above Madara. It's okay, maybe in another life Madara will be fourth place, but in this world the tier list is as follows:

Kaguya > Hagoromo=Sasuke=Naruto > Orochimaru > Madara

You must be registered for see images
Haha, you do realizie that he meant that Sasuke controls the chakra as good as Hagoromoo did right? Naruto and Sasuke are both halfes of Hagormoo, they're never going to be equal to him or Madara on their own, and the facts that you said ''Orochimaru>Madara'' leads me to believe that you are nothing more than a simple troll.
 

CDT23

Active member
Regular
Joined
Mar 15, 2012
Messages
1,886
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Haha, you do realizie that he meant that Sasuke controls the chakra as good as Hagoromoo did right? Naruto and Sasuke are both halfes of Hagormoo, they're never going to be equal to him or Madara on their own, and the facts that you said ''Orochimaru>Madara'' leads me to believe that you are nothing more than a simple troll.
Well guess who's dead and who's still alive? Although not exaclty confirmed. Madara is presumed dead. If i'm not mistaken he had claimed victory rights over Hashirama because he avoided death so that he can further his plan for a comeback. Is it not the same for Orochimaru? Thia would indeed mean that Orochimaru > Madara.
 

Orochimagus

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
1,187
Kin
4💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
The manga is clearly stating that Sasuke's power is on par with Hagoromo. Even with all the outside sources of Power Madara was mooching on, he could not control chakra to the level Sasuke did. Hence why Madara's Susanoo is not as good as Sasuke's. You are also conveniently forgetting how easily Sasuke captured all the tailed beasts. There's no room for discussion on that manga fact.

The Oro thing might seem like a troll call at first, but then we have to take into account that Madara got revived as en edo, then fully revived, then killed in the span of one day...Orochimaru lasted the entire 15 years of manga and WILL STILL be villain in the upcoming movie. That's what you call character power.

CDT23, I know what you mean, but as I stated on this thread, the Naruto lore covers other mythology as well, and there is a Serpent King in the opposing myths as well, and boy does it look familiar...

You must be registered for see images
 
Last edited:

Soloist

Active member
Regular
Joined
Oct 20, 2014
Messages
1,677
Kin
0💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
The manga is clearly stating that Sasuke's power is on par with Hagoromo. Even with all the outside sources of Power Madara was mooching on, he could not control chakra to the level Sasuke did. Hence why Madara's Susanoo is not as good as Sasuke's. You are also conveniently forgetting how easily Sasuke captured all the tailed beasts. There's no room for discussion on that manga fact.

The Oro thing might seem like a troll call at first, but then we have to take into account that Madara got revived as en edo, then fully revived, then killed in the span of one day...Orochimaru lasted the entire 15 years of manga and WILL STILL be villain in the upcoming movie. That's what you call character power.

CDT23, I know what you mean, but as I stated on this thread, the Naruto lore covers other mythology as well, and there is a Serpent King in the opposing myths as well, and boy does it look familiar...

You must be registered for see images
What upcoming movie
 

Orochimagus

Active member
Regular
Joined
May 8, 2012
Messages
1,187
Kin
4💸
Kumi
0💴
Trait Points
0⚔️
Awards
Well, he had the blueprints planned all along, Soloist, but the thing is that the creators do not get full liberty at their own work. They still got to answer to their bosses, keep deadlines, etc.

This is the reason he had to wrap up the series without giving enough time to expand on the Kaguya thing. This is also why he did not finish Orochimaru's story in the manga and will give Orochimaru closure in the upcoming movie.

[video=youtube;K7jmSljCRvY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K7jmSljCRvY[/video]

Basically the next movie will have Boruto as protagonist and there's gonna be a fight between Hokage Naruto and Orochimaru. More than likely Oro will win to set up the final battle with Boruto.
 
Last edited:
Top