Just go with it...

Yahcob13

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When Sasuke inherited the yin half of the six paths power from Hagoromo he awakened a six tomoe rinnegan that looks similar to the Juubi's. Why do you think that is? I think it has something to do with six paths chakra having a connection to the ten tails. Thus far everything that has been associated with six paths chakra has something to do with the ten tails also. Therefore Sasuke unlocking a rinnegan after receiving six paths chakra implies that his rinnegan has a connection to the Juubi. One thing you have to take into consideration is that no one had yet to receive six paths yin chakra and unlock a rinnegan before Sasuke. He set a precedent not just in the way it was unlocked (receiving only yin chakra) it was also a new thing to have a rinnegan in only one eye. Before him the tomoe rinnegan would occupy the third eye. This signified that it was his personal power and not something borrowed from the ten tails.

Here's the twist: When Sasuke received Indra's inheritance he unlocked a new and improved bloodline for the Uchiha clan. Sarada received this new bloodline and was able to unlock her sharingan as a toddler. She gains super strength upon activation. Once again setting precedent just like her father. Unlike her father she was born with the inheritance of the Otsutsuki.
 

Animegoin

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Listen, nothing is special about Sasuke’s Rinnegan, and thus far nothing is special about Sarada aside from that toddler awakening. The enhanced strength displayed was a Chakra enchanced strike, not a perk of her sharingan.

Six Paths Yin chakra had nothing to do with the tomoe of the Rinnegan, unless you believe that if Sasuke had received either both Yin and Yang, or only Yang, that he’d awaken a “normal Rinnegan”. And if that’s the case, you’re saying that Sasuke’s Rinnegan is actually inferior because as we know, Hagoromo himself is both the Yin and Yang and his Rinnegan is the closest to the Juubi’s. A half can never surpass the whole.

But I know you aren’t implying that Sasuke’s Rinnegan is superior than the actual Sage of Six Paths’, are you? 🤔

TLDR: Every “earth variant” Rinnegan has a connection to the Juubi and Hagoromo. Sasuke’s Yin-only Six Paths handout has nothing to do with the tomoe being present on his Rinnegan. The tomoe on Sasuke’s Rinnegan are what allows his one Rinnegan to equate to one of Madara’s or Hagoromo’s. As proof, no tomoe Sasuke (in Naruto: Gaiden) was incapable of manifesting Susano’o until the tomoe returned, and thusly resorted using his own body to shield Sarada as opposed to erecting a Susano’o barrier. The tomoe for Sasuke are merely tied to his amount of chakra, but that’s until it’s retconned again.
 

salamander uchiha

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Listen, nothing is special about Sasuke’s Rinnegan, and thus far nothing is special about Sarada aside from that toddler awakening. The enhanced strength displayed was a Chakra enchanced strike, not a perk of her sharingan.

Six Paths Yin chakra had nothing to do with the tomoe of the Rinnegan, unless you believe that if Sasuke had received either both Yin and Yang, or only Yang, that he’d awaken a “normal Rinnegan”. And if that’s the case, you’re saying that Sasuke’s Rinnegan is actually inferior because as we know, Hagoromo himself is both the Yin and Yang and his Rinnegan is the closest to the Juubi’s. A half can never surpass the whole.

But I know you aren’t implying that Sasuke’s Rinnegan is superior than the actual Sage of Six Paths’, are you? 🤔

TLDR: Every “earth variant” Rinnegan has a connection to the Juubi and Hagoromo. Sasuke’s Yin-only Six Paths handout has nothing to do with the tomoe being present on his Rinnegan. The tomoe on Sasuke’s Rinnegan are what allows his one Rinnegan to equate to one of Madara’s or Hagoromo’s. As proof, no tomoe Sasuke (in Naruto: Gaiden) was incapable of manifesting Susano’o until the tomoe returned, and thusly resorted using his own body to shield Sarada as opposed to erecting a Susano’o barrier. The tomoe for Sasuke are merely tied to his amount of chakra, but that’s until it’s retconned again.
I don't know about Sarada, but the way I always looked at it was. Sasuke was Indra chakra + Hogaromo's chakra(which has another part Indra in it). 2 parts Indra and 1 part Asura. 66% Indra chakra that have him the tomoe Rinnegan. Now the Rinnegan itself is of inferior quality, relative to an actual Rokudo Rinnegan(Madara's). We know Obito was struggling with one, while Sasuke said Kakashi or anyone(Sakura) could handle his.
 

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Tomoe-less Rinnegan can't use Sharingan abilities.
That’s a compact statement for several reasons, if we’re talking when Sasuke’s Rinnegan loses its tomoe, then you’re right because the lack of tomoe indicates extremely low chakra. The sharingans abilities are far too taxing for Sasuke to use while low on chakra. But if we’re talking about Madara’s, Hagoromo’s and Momoshiki’s third eye, then read below:

You could say that, sure, but we’ve seen the normal Rinnegan pattern appear in the eyes of those trapped in the Infinite Tsukuyomi, instead of the Juubi’s sharingan pattern. Adversely we’ve also seen that when Sasuke casted the genjutsu on the bijuu, his tomoe-Rinnegan design was reflected in the eyes of the bijuu, instead of the “normal” Rinnegan pattern.

Also using Madara as an example is quite null since he doesn’t have any sharingan abilities anyway, and if we use the Edo Madara reverting to Mangekyou to cast a genjutsu on Ay, we can chalk that up to any of the following:

A.) Madara’s inexperience with the Rinnegan, just as Sasuke wasn’t able to open portals until later into his adult hood. Madara himself said that “new eyes were ripening...” when he was talking to Edo Tobirama, which could suggest that he hasn’t explored the Rinnegan abilities to their fullest extent.

B.) Madara’s fake Rinnegan prevented him from using genjutsu, just as the fake Rinnegan prevented Madara from resurrecting himself and summoning the Gedo Statue(as the bijuu stated).

C.) Kishimoto wanted to wait until Infinite Tsukuyomi for Madara to use Rinnegan genjutsu, therefore it was a temporary restriction for plot convenience since as shown, Rinnegan genjutsu is far above the sharingans. No one without a Rinnegan can break you out of it, so if Madara had used that on Ay, Onoki wouldn’t have been able to free him. (which is what literally happened)
 

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That’s a compact statement for several reasons, if we’re talking when Sasuke’s Rinnegan loses its tomoe, then you’re right because the lack of tomoe indicates extremely low chakra. The sharingans abilities are far too taxing for Sasuke to use while low on chakra. But if we’re talking about Madara’s, Hagoromo’s and Momoshiki’s third eye, then read below:

You could say that, sure, but we’ve seen the normal Rinnegan pattern appear in the eyes of those trapped in the Infinite Tsukuyomi, instead of the Juubi’s sharingan pattern. Adversely we’ve also seen that when Sasuke casted the genjutsu on the bijuu, his tomoe-Rinnegan design was reflected in the eyes of the bijuu, instead of the “normal” Rinnegan pattern.

Also using Madara as an example is quite null since he doesn’t have any sharingan abilities anyway, and if we use the Edo Madara reverting to Mangekyou to cast a genjutsu on Ay, we can chalk that up to any of the following:

A.) Madara’s inexperience with the Rinnegan, just as Sasuke wasn’t able to open portals until later into his adult hood. Madara himself said that “new eyes were ripening...” when he was talking to Edo Tobirama, which could suggest that he hasn’t explored the Rinnegan abilities to their fullest extent.

B.) Madara’s fake Rinnegan prevented him from using genjutsu, just as the fake Rinnegan prevented Madara from resurrecting himself and summoning the Gedo Statue(as the bijuu stated).

C.) Kishimoto wanted to wait until Infinite Tsukuyomi for Madara to use Rinnegan genjutsu, therefore it was a temporary restriction for plot convenience since as shown, Rinnegan genjutsu is far above the sharingans. No one without a Rinnegan can break you out of it, so if Madara had used that on Ay, Onoki wouldn’t have been able to free him. (which is what literally happened)
Madara mastered the Rinnegan which is why he was able to teach Obito it's abilities. Normal Rinnegan can't use Sharingan abilities like the Tomoe Rinnnegan and Rinne-Sharingan. Which is why he switched to EMS to cast Genjutsu on Ay.
 

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Madara mastered the Rinnegan which is why he was able to teach Obito it's abilities. Normal Rinnegan can't use Sharingan abilities like the Tomoe Rinnnegan and Rinne-Sharingan. Which is why he switched to EMS to cast Genjutsu on Ay.
Madara didn’t master the Rinnegan, which is why he said “new eyes are ripening” when he was talking to Edo Tobirama. I explained it all, already. Actually my argument is infallible.
 

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That’s a compact statement for several reasons, if we’re talking when Sasuke’s Rinnegan loses its tomoe, then you’re right because the lack of tomoe indicates extremely low chakra. The sharingans abilities are far too taxing for Sasuke to use while low on chakra. But if we’re talking about Madara’s, Hagoromo’s and Momoshiki’s third eye, then read below:

You could say that, sure, but we’ve seen the normal Rinnegan pattern appear in the eyes of those trapped in the Infinite Tsukuyomi, instead of the Juubi’s sharingan pattern. Adversely we’ve also seen that when Sasuke casted the genjutsu on the bijuu, his tomoe-Rinnegan design was reflected in the eyes of the bijuu, instead of the “normal” Rinnegan pattern.

Also using Madara as an example is quite null since he doesn’t have any sharingan abilities anyway, and if we use the Edo Madara reverting to Mangekyou to cast a genjutsu on Ay, we can chalk that up to any of the following:

A.) Madara’s inexperience with the Rinnegan, just as Sasuke wasn’t able to open portals until later into his adult hood. Madara himself said that “new eyes were ripening...” when he was talking to Edo Tobirama, which could suggest that he hasn’t explored the Rinnegan abilities to their fullest extent.

B.) Madara’s fake Rinnegan prevented him from using genjutsu, just as the fake Rinnegan prevented Madara from resurrecting himself and summoning the Gedo Statue(as the bijuu stated).

C.) Kishimoto wanted to wait until Infinite Tsukuyomi for Madara to use Rinnegan genjutsu, therefore it was a temporary restriction for plot convenience since as shown, Rinnegan genjutsu is far above the sharingans. No one without a Rinnegan can break you out of it, so if Madara had used that on Ay, Onoki wouldn’t have been able to free him. (which is what literally happened)
If I take C) as the answer why Madara still need 9 Tomoe Sharingan to cast IT? If his Rinnegan also can cast IT/Super Genjutsu like Sasuke. Do you think Madara's Rinnegan can produce super Genjutsu like Sasuke? And how Kaguya could cast IT without Rinnegan? And how you justify all the "logical possibilities" you have made when BZ said the stone tablet was just a lie. It's being written that way for couple of purposes, 1) To release Kaguya, 2) To do the job for Kaguya.

And what color is Madara's Rinnegan and what color is 9 Tomoe Sharingan?

Curious to know your answer.
 

Animegoin

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If I take C) as the answer why Madara still need 9 Tomoe Sharingan to cast IT? If his Rinnegan also can cast IT/Super Genjutsu like Sasuke. Do you think Madara's Rinnegan can produce super Genjutsu like Sasuke? And how Kaguya could cast IT without Rinnegan? And how you justify all the "logical possibilities" you have made when BZ said the stone tablet was just a lie. It's being written that way for couple of purposes, 1) To release Kaguya, 2) To do the job for Kaguya.

And what color is Madara's Rinnegan and what color is 9 Tomoe Sharingan?

Curious to know your answer.
Madara needed the Juubi’s eye to perform the glow on the moon, which shined through the world. Normal doujutsu can’t create that effect, nor can they project onto surfaces. He says so himself, the “shine upon the world” portion is crucial:
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The Juubi’s Rinnegan can cast genjutsu, it just wasn’t what Madara used to cast his. However Kaguya used the Juubi’s eye and her Byakugan as Hagoromo stated to cast her variant.

And BZ only lied about how the Infite Tsukuyomi would be the “way to save the Uchiha clan,” which is what he wrote on the tablet. He didn’t lie about anything else.

The Juubi’s eye is red, and all earth Rinnegan are purple. Idk why that matters.
 
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We know Obito was struggling with one, while Sasuke said Kakashi or anyone(Sakura) could handle his.
Sasuke only says that they could end the Genjutsu that way. Not that the user who took his Rinnegan would even survive or be able to use it for extended periods. Obito also commented that he had problems controlling more than one and that even with one he could feel himself slip. This is all implications and not facts, both from Sasuke and Obito. It is implied that other people would be able to use the Rinnegan, especially Kakashi who has used a Sharingan for a long time.

Though it is also implied through Obito that even he wouldn't be able to use a Rinnegan that belong to someone else for a long period of time.

Tomoe-less Rinnegan can't use Sharingan abilities.
Madara would like to disagree. We see him use Susano'o with his Rinnegan and without his eyes. Susano'o s a Mangekyou Sharingan ability after all.
 

salamander uchiha

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Sasuke only says that they could end the Genjutsu that way. Not that the user who took his Rinnegan would even survive or be able to use it for extended periods. Obito also commented that he had problems controlling more than one and that even with one he could feel himself slip. This is all implications and not facts, both from Sasuke and Obito. It is implied that other people would be able to use the Rinnegan, especially Kakashi who has used a Sharingan for a long time.
Nope, for you to use the Rinnegan requires the ability to use it. You can't use it's abilities without actually using them. So yes, Sasuke tells you by sayi g Kakshi or anybody(Sakura) being able to use it is that they can handle it.

Though it is also implied through Obito that even he wouldn't be able to use a Rinnegan that belong to someone else for a long period of time.
He never said anything about period of time, he said he was almost overcome by it's power. And that is because it was Madara's rinnegan(true Rinnegan of Hoagromo). And that is while having Senju DNA and RSM chakra.



Madara would like to disagree. We see him use Susano'o with his Rinnegan and without his eyes. Susano'o s a Mangekyou Sharingan ability after all.
This is true and false at the same time.
 
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Nope, for you to use the Rinnegan requires the ability to use it. You can't use it's abilities without actually using them. So yes, Sasuke tells you by sayi g Kakshi or anybody(Sakura) being able to use it is that they can handle it.
To get as better grasp of this we should go back to when Madara and Zetsu talked about why Nagato was given his Rinnegan. Nagato was chosen not because he was the only one who could use the Rinnegan, but because he was the only one who could control the Gedo Statue aside from Madara himself. At this point the Uzumaki and Senju were mostly extinct and Madara needed someone he could manipulate and someone who could control the Gedo. This list became rather shallow, those being;
  • Tsunade Senju
  • Kushina Uzumaki
  • Nagato Uzumaki
  • Nagato's Parent(s)
Out of these, only Nagato was young and would be easy to manipulate. Tsunade being too old, Kushina being too old and Nagato's parents also likely being too old as at least one of them had to be related to the Uzumaki or Senju. Hence the choice to give it to Nagato was because of his age. The reason he needed a Senju was to control the Gedo. If this wasn't a requirement then he could've given it to any random Uchiha. Obito wasn't a planned addition.

Anyhow. This directly implies that anyone can use the Rinnegan, but not control the Gedo Statue unless the have Senju power. Through Obito we are given more information, specifically the quote that reads;
Even this one eye's chakra and ocular powers are so strong I started losing myself. Yet I, who am not its original owner, was able to accomplish this much with just one.
This is Obito directly stating that at some point after taking in this power he could sense that he was starting to lose himself to the power. This further implies a progress and that the person can continue to start losing themselves unless they are careful with the use of it. This also fails to explain a few things however:
  • In what sense are one losing themselves?
  • Why didn't Nagato lose himself?
We don't know either answer, but we could theorized that Nagato lost himself in the power when he became Pain and went berserk with the Gedo. We can also theorize that "losing oneself" refers to being consumed by the power and being unable to fully control it like how Nagato was unable to fully control the Gedo and Obito was unable to fully control the powers of the Rinnegan.

All in all, there is nothing to back-up that Sasuke's Rinnegan was weaker than Madara's. In-fact we know that anyone would be able to handle Madara's Rinnegan, but not the Gedo based on the information we are given by Madara.

He never said anything about period of time, he said he was almost overcome by it's power.
I already covered this, but I'll comment on it directly for convenience. Obito stated that he was starting to lose himself, not that he had almost lost himself and overcame it.
This is true and false at the same time.
Exactly how can this be false? We know that the Perfect Susano'o is tied to Mangekyou Sharingan and/or Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan. We also know that those who awaken the Mangekyou can use the Susano'o. We see this through Madara and Kakashi who both obtain the Perfect variant either before or without gaining the Rinnegan. Madara was also further able to use a base Susano'o without his eyes.

Combine that with what we know about the Sharingan and how its mostly just a physical storage of power that manifests when special chakra is released from the brain then it would be pretty safe to assume that once you've awakened the Susano'o and Mangekyou Sharingan itself, you can use the Susano'o regardless of what eyes you have, only that for each eye you lack you also lack power as you lack part of the "storage".
 

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To get as better grasp of this we should go back to when Madara and Zetsu talked about why Nagato was given his Rinnegan. Nagato was chosen not because he was the only one who could use the Rinnegan, but because he was the only one who could control the Gedo Statue aside from Madara himself. At this point the Uzumaki and Senju were mostly extinct and Madara needed someone he could manipulate and someone who could control the Gedo. This list became rather shallow, those being;
  • Tsunade Senju
  • Kushina Uzumaki
  • Nagato Uzumaki
  • Nagato's Parent(s)
Out of these, only Nagato was young and would be easy to manipulate. Tsunade being too old, Kushina being too old and Nagato's parents also likely being too old as at least one of them had to be related to the Uzumaki or Senju. Hence the choice to give it to Nagato was because of his age. The reason he needed a Senju was to control the Gedo. If this wasn't a requirement then he could've given it to any random Uchiha. Obito wasn't a planned addition.
I agree on Nagato being vulnerable was a reason, however it wasn't because he could control the Gedo. Even Obito without Rinnegan could control and Gedo and with it he was an absolute beast and could actually employ the Gedo in combat. And Nagato's use of it pales in comparison to Obito's display. The gedo turned Nagato into a cripple, while Obito had it as his plaything.




Anyhow. This directly implies that anyone can use the Rinnegan, but not control the Gedo Statue unless the have Senju power. Through Obito we are given more information, specifically the quote that reads;
It really doesn't imply that, not all. The only Rinnegan that is implied for is Sasuke's.


This is Obito directly stating that at some point after taking in this power he could sense that he was starting to lose himself to the power. This further implies a progress and that the person can continue to start losing themselves unless they are careful with the use of it. This also fails to explain a few things however:
  • In what sense are one losing themselves?
  • Why didn't Nagato lose himself?
We don't know either answer, but we could theorized that Nagato lost himself in the power when he became Pain and went berserk with the Gedo. We can also theorize that "losing oneself" refers to being consumed by the power and being unable to fully control it like how Nagato was unable to fully control the Gedo and Obito was unable to fully control the powers of the Rinnegan.

All in all, there is nothing to back-up that Sasuke's Rinnegan was weaker than Madara's. In-fact we know that anyone would be able to handle Madara's Rinnegan, but not the Gedo based on the information we are given by Madara.
This is nonsense, he mentioned he could barely handle one's power

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It's ocular powers and chakra were so strong I started to losing myself. That's as clear any any statement is going to get on how powerful Madara's eyes are. Obito has Senju DNA, rokudo rods and has Uchiha blood, yet this is what was happening to him. He even mentioned he couldn't implant 2. This clearly tells you Madara's eyes power is too strong even for Obito with his buffs and blood. And Sasuke confirming anybody(non Uchiha or senju) could use his tells you his is inferior.




I already covered this, but I'll comment on it directly for convenience. Obito stated that he was starting to lose himself, not that he had almost lost himself and overcame it.
Already addressed above.


Exactly how can this be false? We know that the Perfect Susano'o is tied to Mangekyou Sharingan and/or Eternal Mangekyou Sharingan. We also know that those who awaken the Mangekyou can use the Susano'o. We see this through Madara and Kakashi who both obtain the Perfect variant either before or without gaining the Rinnegan. Madara was also further able to use a base Susano'o without his eyes.

Combine that with what we know about the Sharingan and how its mostly just a physical storage of power that manifests when special chakra is released from the brain then it would be pretty safe to assume that once you've awakened the Susano'o and Mangekyou Sharingan itself, you can use the Susano'o regardless of what eyes you have, only that for each eye you lack you also lack power as you lack part of the "storage".
It's true that Susanoo can be used without eyes, but that's a Madara feat. As for the perfect Susanoo nobody has used it without eyes, and Sasuke linked his inability to use it to his chakra.
 
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Madara would like to disagree. We see him use Susano'o with his Rinnegan and without his eyes. Susano'o s a Mangekyou Sharingan ability after all.
As you said, he used it even without eyes so what makes you think he specifically used it with his Rinnegan? His use of it isn't dependant on the eyes so there's no telling that he used his eyes for it when he had them.

And even if he did, that's one ability. With Genjutsu he needed to switch.
 

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As you said, he used it even without eyes so what makes you think he specifically used it with his Rinnegan? His use of it isn't dependant on the eyes so there's no telling that he used his eyes for it when he had them.

And even if he did, that's one ability. With Genjutsu he needed to switch.
I think that was a plot nerf or something(fake rinnegan issue), as everybody hit with the IT had Rinnegan rings in their eyes, not RS rings. And the way the sharingan genjutsu works it puts 3tomoe in the eyes of the afflcited(Kurama), Sasuke's put his Rinnegan's ring and tomoe(tailed beasts). That would mean Madara cast the genjutsu with his Rinnegan and use the Sharingan powers via it.
 

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I think that was a plot nerf or something(fake rinnegan issue), as everybody hit with the IT had Rinnegan rings in their eyes, not RS rings. And the way the sharingan genjutsu works it puts 3tomoe in the eyes of the afflcited(Kurama), Sasuke's put his Rinnegan's ring and tomoe(tailed beasts). That would mean Madara cast the genjutsu with his Rinnegan and use the Sharingan powers via it.

Rinne-Sharingan, which we know has the powers of both Dojutsu, was used to cast Genjutsu. If tomoe-less Rinnegan could use Sharingan abilities then there would be no point for Tomoe Rinnegan and Rinne-Sharingan.
 

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Rinne-Sharingan, which we know has the powers of both Dojutsu, was used to cast Genjutsu. If tomoe-less Rinnegan could use Sharingan abilities then there would be no point for Tomoe Rinnegan and Rinne-Sharingan.
Lmfao you literally ignored what both myself and Salamander explicitly stated 😂🤦‍♂️.

Again, the Juubi’s Rinnegan was only to used for moons piercing light in Madara’s case.

No Juubi Rinnegan in the eyes of populace = no Juubi genjutsu. End of discussion, whether you accept it, acknowledge it or not, it’s correct.
 
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Lmfao you literally ignored what both myself and Salamander explicitly stated 😂🤦‍♂️.

Again, the Juubi’s Rinnegan was only to used for moons piercing light in Madara’s case.

No Juubi Rinnegan in the eyes of populace = no Juubi genjutsu. End of discussion, whether you accept it, acknowledge it or not, it’s correct.
There would be no need to switch to EMS if Rinnegan could cast Genjutsu. Enough fanfiction.
 
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