JJ Madara Uchiha VS Kaguya Ōtsutsuki

[TRE MERCER]

This guy....

Sasuke cut those meteors up with ease, and those same slashes were being blocked by Naruto's Avatar, which is equal to Sasuke's in durability, and Kaguya ripped apart Sasuke's Susanoo. Do the math.

No it's time for you to do the match(Geometry) Sasuke ran his swords through the meteors... With his speed it made these huge cuts.(

You must be registered for see links

). Which split the meteor up. Kaguya punches don't have a huge aoe seeing she needed 5 to plow through his Susanoo... Using her fist to try and get rid of the meteors isn't happening because that would mean she's trying to crush them which isn't happening because of their huge size.

It's time to rap your mind around this because she not taking out the meteors with something that small.

I'm seeing zero evidence that Madara's Susanoo will be strong enough to tank something that obliterated Sasuke's Susanoo in 5 hits. Maybe it'll take more, but that doesn't matter. Not to mention Ash Bones one shot it.

Let's see here he has Hagoromo chakra Kaguya's and Juubi's. Ps shockwaves sends ash bone back or a limbo clone a jump in the way.

Sasuke blitzed Madara w/ no reaction, Kaguya reacted to the same blitz attempt, and evaded with raw speed. That's a huge difference, if you bothered to even read before replying. I don't care for your statements, only an argument.

Sasuke never blitz the Madara after gaining his other Rinnegan and Trans Rinnegan. If im correct the double Rinnegan combo adds something more than just the eye seeing as Obito couldn't handle the combo. Didn't Naruto blitz Kaguya and was blitz be Sasuke to.(

You must be registered for see links

).

I rest my case... Literally.

You must be registered for see images

 

[KidGamer65]

No it's time for you to do the match(Geometry) Sasuke ran his swords through the meteors... With his speed it made these huge cuts.(

You must be registered for see links

). Which split the meteor up. Kaguya punches don't have a huge aoe seeing she needed 5 to plow through his Susanoo... Using her fist to try and get rid of the meteors isn't happening because that would mean she's trying to crush them which isn't happening because of their huge size.

It's time to rap your mind around this because she not taking out the meteors with something that small.

Sasuke didn't charge through every single area where he made a cut, he did that because the range of his sword is longer than the sword itself, hence Madara cutting Mountains miles away. As for Kaguya, lol, no. Learn how the physics of this works. Naruto's fist and Madara's body are nowhere near the size of the rock/Shinju branch that was behind them, yet cracks started appearing all through it when

You must be registered for see links

Ay's fist isn't as large as the cliff,

You must be registered for see links

Kaguya obliterates the meteors.

Let's see here he has Hagoromo chakra Kaguya's and Juubi's. Ps shockwaves sends ash bone back or a limbo clone a jump in the way.

Bold is fanfiction, probably the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Getting the Juubi gives you Rikudo Chakra, Rikudo Senjutsu, so that is one in the same. Madara has Rikudo Senjutsu boosting his Susanoo while Sasuke has half of Hagoromo's power. The only reason his Susanoo would be stronger, is because Madara's was stronger before all the boosts, but it's not by enough to where Kaguya won't fodderize it.

Then it dies and Kaguya repeats the process. Or she fires them through her portal and hits Madara in the back, thus he can't block it thus his PS is destroyed.

Sasuke never blitz the Madara after gaining his other Rinnegan and Trans Rinnegan. If im correct the double Rinnegan combo adds something more than just the eye seeing as Obito couldn't handle the combo. Didn't Naruto blitz Kaguya and was blitz be Sasuke to.(

You must be registered for see links

).

He couldn't handle it's chakra power. I'm gonna need evidence that DR Madara is faster than One Eyed Madara.

Lol, that isn't a blitz. He reacted to Sasuke's ST, turned around, and blocked it with his arm. Sasuke and Naruto are both faster than Madara anyway.

 

[Strict]

The Juubi allows their Jinchuriki to do

You must be registered for see links

. When already a smaller Bijuudama can cause

You must be registered for see links

amount of destruction.

This is what the Juubi's Jinchuriki can do. While in Kaguya's case, the Juubi is just a part of her power, her will. Madara became what he is using a part of Kaguya's power. Madara himself became nothing but Kaguya's will after he absorbed the god tree. So the peak of destruction Madara can cause with the Juubi's power, is still less than Kaguya can do.

Kaguya annihilates him. The Limbos are turned to ash with the ash bones or pounded by the Chakra fists.

 

[TRE MERCER]

Sasuke didn't charge through every single area where he made a cut, he did that because the range of his sword is longer than the sword itself, hence Madara cutting Mountains miles away. As for Kaguya, lol, no. Learn how the physics of this works. Naruto's fist and Madara's body are nowhere near the size of the rock/Shinju branch that was behind them, yet cracks started appearing all through it when

You must be registered for see links

Ay's fist isn't as large as the cliff,

You must be registered for see links

Kaguya obliterates the meteors.

Are you stupid? Those cracks they made were not visible to the full view of the god tree. Same thing with the scan with Raikage. Do you not know how big those meteors are or are you just plain trolling?

Pieces of the meteors were mountain range size hell those meteors are the size of asteroids. Can you even accurately picture what your saying? Kaguya chakra fist doens't have no where near enough power and momentum suggesting they could smash those entire CT's

Bold is fanfiction, probably the dumbest thing I've heard in a while. Getting the Juubi gives you Rikudo Chakra, Rikudo Senjutsu, so that is one in the same. Madara has Rikudo Senjutsu boosting his Susanoo while Sasuke has half of Hagoromo's power. The only reason his Susanoo would be stronger, is because Madara's was stronger before all the boosts, but it's not by enough to where Kaguya won't fodderize it.

Then it dies and Kaguya repeats the process. Or she fires them through her portal and hits Madara in the back, thus he can't block it thus his PS is destroyed.




He couldn't handle it's chakra power. I'm gonna need evidence that DR Madara is faster than One Eyed Madara.

Lol, that isn't a blitz. He reacted to Sasuke's ST, turned around, and blocked it with his arm. Sasuke and Naruto are both faster than Madara anyway.

Pretty sure this is Kaguya.(

You must be registered for see links

). Also why else would he have become immortal? Once he has the once of her chakra that the Shinju tree gave him he became immortal. Madara already had Hagoromo chakra prior to becoming a Juubi Jin seeing as the Rinnegan accesses the chakra. Ash bone from behide that's reasonable. It's chakra hinting more of Hagoromo's seeing as that's how it's created/awakened. But going by your logic he shouldn't have been able to do that seeing as Sasuke couldn't even blitz Kaguya which Naruto did. Also Naruto who blitz Kaguya was unable to blitz Madara.

 

[Bronze]

Madara himself became nothing but Kaguya's will after he absorbed the god tree.

You must be registered for see images

 

[Holy God]

Based on...? Oh wait, nothing.



His chakra manipulates the calcium in the bones, and lets them grow harder and stronger.

You must be registered for see links

Does that mean there is chakra in his bones? Nope.

I don't care if it's defined as Ninjutsu. If it's not chakra, it can't be absorbed.


And I'm still seeing no proof.



He sensed Tobirama once he had appeared, that isn't him reacting to Hiraishin.



You must have forgotten to give me scans of Limbo using Shinra Tensei. You also must have forgotten about the cooldown.

Based on common sense. Attacks hurt her.

That doesn't specifically say chakra manipulation. Just that his special genetic traits allow him to modify his bones' size and shape. By saying you don't care if it's nin-jutsu is clear ignorance in the fact that it has to do with chakra, as you probably know that the Six Paths allow you to absorb any nin-jutsu.

The proof? He basically has Obito's chakra arms but better. What exactly makes you think they would be weak? Sounds like you're just trying to get at anything you can.

Actually, it is. He knew where Tobirama had appeared and acted accordingly. Just like Naruto would figure out where Kaguya's portals would appear and then flew away from them.

I think you may have forgotten that he has wood-style clones that, if over the quantity of 4, make the time limit redundant.
Clone 1 = ST = 5 secs
Clone 2 = ST = 5 secs; Clone 1 = 4 secs
Clone 3 = ST = 5 secs; Clone 2 = 4 secs; Clone 1 = 3 secs
And so on.

 

[Holy God]

The Juubi allows their Jinchuriki to do

You must be registered for see links

. When already a smaller Bijuudama can cause

You must be registered for see links

amount of destruction.

This is what the Juubi's Jinchuriki can do. While in Kaguya's case, the Juubi is just a part of her power, her will. Madara became what he is using a part of Kaguya's power. Madara himself became nothing but Kaguya's will after he absorbed the god tree. So the peak of destruction Madara can cause with the Juubi's power, is still less than Kaguya can do.

Kaguya annihilates him. The Limbos are turned to ash with the ash bones or pounded by the Chakra fists.

You do know that they have the exact same amount of the Holy Tree's chakra, correct? Kaguya just has some of everyone's under Infinite Tsukuyomi as well.

Saying Kaguya annihilates him because Limbo is turned to ash or pounded by chakra fists is like me saying Madara obliterates her because her soul will be ripped out or she;d be destroyed by Perfect Susano'o.

 

[KidGamer65]

Are you stupid? Those cracks they made were not visible to the full view of the god tree. Same thing with the scan with Raikage. Do you not know how big those meteors are or are you just plain trolling?

I should be asking you this question. Are you stupid? How the hell are the cracks not visible to the full view of God Tree relevant to anything I'm saying? The point is, the stronger a punch is, the more energy that will be spread out along the target, which is why fists can smash the entirety of rocks despite fists being nowhere near the size of said rocks. Which is why Naruto was cracking a wall much bigger than his fist, with just a punch, which is why Ay obliterated a cliff, larger than his fist. Those scans prove that.


I suggest you go back to school and re take whatever Physics course they have.

Pieces of the meteors were mountain range size hell those meteors are the size of asteroids. Can you even accurately picture what your saying? Kaguya chakra fist doens't have no where near enough power and momentum suggesting they could smash those entire CT's

It had the power to smash Susanoo, so no, power and momentum isn't an argument. Hell, you don't even have an argument as far as I'm concerned. The only reason you are arguing is because you don't think it's possible..lmao, stop.

Pretty sure this is Kaguya.(

You must be registered for see links

). Also why else would he have become immortal? Once he has the once of her chakra that the Shinju tree gave him he became immortal. Madara already had Hagoromo chakra prior to becoming a Juubi Jin seeing as the Rinnegan accesses the chakra. Ash bone from behide that's reasonable. It's chakra hinting more of Hagoromo's seeing as that's how it's created/awakened. But going by your logic he shouldn't have been able to do that seeing as Sasuke couldn't even blitz Kaguya which Naruto did. Also Naruto who blitz Kaguya was unable to blitz Madara.

Pretty sure you still aren't showing me proof of Madara having Kaguya's chakra. Kaguya's chakra=/=Kaguya's presence=Kaguya's will or something close to it. Kaguya's chakra was completely sucked out of her when she was sealed anyway. She merged with the Shinju, became the Juubi, and then said Juubi lost all of it's chakra and became the Gedo Mazo. So how the hell would he get Kaguya's chakra from absorbing the Juubi's tree form?

@bold: Not interested in assumptions. Get proof.

Irrelevant. Madara got no boost from Hagoromo's chakra obtained from getting Indra and Asura's chakras as shown in the manga where 9 Bijuu fodderized his Complete Susanoo with tail slaps. That chakra isn't relevant.

The only logical explanation is that Kaguya used up even more of her power when she switched dimensions, thus making her slower than when she evaded Sasuke. Regardless, this doesn't change Madara's level of speed in relation to the three.

When you can get me scans of RSM Naruto failing to Shunshin blitz Madara, we can talk. Cause I only remember RSM Naruto w/o his cloak speed pressuring Madara. Lol

 

[KidGamer65]

Based on common sense. Attacks hurt her.

Attacks that can hit hurt her, attacks that are strong enough hurt her. Nothing you have mentioned meets those criteria.

That doesn't specifically say chakra manipulation. Just that his special genetic traits allow him to modify his bones' size and shape. By saying you don't care if it's nin-jutsu is clear ignorance in the fact that it has to do with chakra, as you probably know that the Six Paths allow you to absorb any nin-jutsu.

Lol...if you wanna play it that way, then Kaguya apparently isn't using chakra, meaning you are only helping my argument by saying that chakra manipulation isn't the said reason.

Has to do with chakra=/=Is chakra. I highly suggest you learn this before replying to me again.

The proof? He basically has Obito's chakra arms but better. What exactly makes you think they would be weak? Sounds like you're just trying to get at anything you can.

The same chakra arms that Naruto and Minato

You must be registered for see links

I'm waiting for some real proof.

Actually, it is. He knew where Tobirama had appeared and acted accordingly. Just like Naruto would figure out where Kaguya's portals would appear and then flew away from them.

He knew where Tobirama appeared because he can sense, that doesn't mean he reacted to Tobirama's Hiraishin, it means he sensed him once he had already appeared.

Irrelevant. Not to mention he only evaded Kaguya trying to pull him in or any attack that came out of the portal.

I think you may have forgotten that he has wood-style clones that, if over the quantity of 4, make the time limit redundant.
Clone 1 = ST = 5 secs
Clone 2 = ST = 5 secs; Clone 1 = 4 secs
Clone 3 = ST = 5 secs; Clone 2 = 4 secs; Clone 1 = 3 secs
And so on.

Then Kaguya outright overpowers his Shinra Tensei like KN6 overpowered Devas, unless he uses the large one, then his cool down is larger, and then he gets obliterated. Not to mention Madara spamming Shinra Tensei is quite the shitty argument. Kaguya doesn't get hurt and all he does is waste his chakra.

 

[Holy God]

Attacks that can hit hurt her, attacks that are strong enough hurt her. Nothing you have mentioned meets those criteria.

I can name a number of attacks that would be able to hurt her.

Lol...if you wanna play it that way, then Kaguya apparently isn't using chakra, meaning you are only helping my argument by saying that chakra manipulation isn't the said reason.

Has to do with chakra=/=Is chakra. I highly suggest you learn this before replying to me again.

She has to use chakra to give the bone that degenerative property. She isn't simply changing size or structure here. I already knew this, and I never thought absorbing the bone would be possible. As I've said before, he'd absorb the chakra in the bone, which would leave it as a regular one that does minimal piercing damage.

The same chakra arms that Naruto and Minato

You must be registered for see links

I'm waiting for some real proof.

Are you suggesting that Kaguya's can't be slapped away? Just because she's done direct damage does not mean she can pull on it like a real arm. Nothing suggests she has more control like that.

He knew where Tobirama appeared because he can sense, that doesn't mean he reacted to Tobirama's Hiraishin, it means he sensed him once he had already appeared.

Irrelevant. Not to mention he only evaded Kaguya trying to pull him in or any attack that came out of the portal.

lolwat. How else do you react? You can't expect him to know where he is before he appears.

Completely relevant to the discussion of reaction.

Then Kaguya outright overpowers his Shinra Tensei like KN6 overpowered Devas, unless he uses the large one, then his cool down is larger, and then he gets obliterated. Not to mention Madara spamming Shinra Tensei is quite the shitty argument. Kaguya doesn't get hurt and all he does is waste his chakra.

She isn't overpowering it unless she uses chakra arms to hold herself down and is flying at her highest speed. If you're only arguments are Ash Bones, which get absorbed, and Eighty Gods Vacuum, which gets pushed away by Shinra Tensei, then it's completely sensible.

 

[Strict]

Who says that multiple clones will use the Shinra Tensei with an interval of 5 seconds? What if the interval is always doubled? Creating a clone means the interval becomes 10 seconds. 4 clones means the interval becomes 20 seconds. If I say so it's a he said she said.

Madara gained his power from the Juubi, which is only a part of Kaguya's power. Kaguya ate the Chakra fruit, the origin of all Chakra and Kekkei Genkai. Madara has no chance.

It's like saying the nine tails beats the ten tails.

 

[Holy God]

Bringing it back to life.

 

[HiddenSound]

Kaguya's paralysis + Yomotsu Hirasaka is enough. But the restrictions push the neg to a low-dif.

 

[Holy God]

Kaguya's paralysis + Yomotsu Hirasaka is enough. But the restrictions push the neg to a low-dif.

Madara uses paralysis on Kaguya.

 

[HiddenSound]

Madara uses paralysis on Kaguya.

And you wonder why I can't take you seriously.

 

[Holy God]

And you wonder why I can't take you seriously.

Nothing wrong with my post.

 

[KidGamer65]

This thread was stupid when it was made and it's stupid now. Just like this argument.

I can name a number of attacks that would be able to hurt her.

Go ahead. Won't change anything.

She has to use chakra to give the bone that degenerative property. She isn't simply changing size or structure here. I already knew this, and I never thought absorbing the bone would be possible. As I've said before, he'd absorb the chakra in the bone, which would leave it as a regular one that does minimal piercing damage.

Her using chakra to modify it doesn't mean that there is chakra inside of it. It's really that simple.

Are you suggesting that Kaguya's can't be slapped away? Just because she's done direct damage does not mean she can pull on it like a real arm. Nothing suggests she has more control like that.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting. Not by Madara. Not when these fists break Perfect Susanoo while Madara's puny Juubi chakra arms get slapped away by BSM Naruto and BM Minato. What in the world are you even talking about with the bold?

lolwat. How else do you react? You can't expect him to know where he is before he appears.

Completely relevant to the discussion of reaction.

Lmao. He reacted to the attack. Not the teleportation. I cannot make that any simpler than this. What you are saying isn't a counter nor is it even relevant. Keep the irrelevant nonsense out of this discussion.

She isn't overpowering it unless she uses chakra arms to hold herself down and is flying at her highest speed.

Or, she responds with chakra arms that have enough force behind them to blow open Sasuke's Susanoo, something Madara cannot do. Lmao. You stating shit isn't an argument. And like I said, if he uses CST, then she takes it and kills him during the cooldown.

If you're only arguments are Ash Bones, which get absorbed,

Zero proof.

and Eighty Gods Vacuum, which gets pushed away by Shinra Tensei, then it's completely sensible.

Zero proof that Shinra Tensei has the force to overpower fists that have enough force behind them to blow open Susanoo. Also irrelevant since he'd need his strongest ST to even stand a chance, which means his cooldown is larger thus he dies a terrible death.


Stop arguing for Madara when Manga said he's weaker. It makes you look like a fanboy too.

 

[HiddenSound]

-

Careful now. He's never lost a Madara against Kaguya debate.

 

[KidGamer65]

Careful now. He's never lost a Madara against Kaguya debate.

Lmao, that sig tho. This dude is a piece of work.

 

[Holy God]

This thread was stupid when it was made and it's stupid now. Just like this argument.
Go ahead. Won't change anything.

Any attack hurts her actually. It's as simple as that.

Her using chakra to modify it doesn't mean that there is chakra inside of it. It's really that simple.

It's nin-jutsu. The Rinnegan absorbs all nin-jutsu. It's going to render her bones useless. I've never seen a technique use chakra and then stay the same when without chakra.

That's exactly what I'm suggesting. Not by Madara. Not when these fists break Perfect Susanoo while Madara's puny Juubi chakra arms get slapped away by BSM Naruto and BM Minato. What in the world are you even talking about with the bold?

The chakra arms are pure chakra, something like the Perfect Susano'o. They'd be determined by potency, no? It only follows that Madara's would be stronger than Naruto's. The example of Obito doesn't work because they aren't direct hits.

Lmao. He reacted to the attack. Not the teleportation. I cannot make that any simpler than this. What you are saying isn't a counter nor is it even relevant. Keep the irrelevant nonsense out of this discussion.

Yes, he reacted to the attack, but he sensed the teleportation. The sound the teleportation makes when it occurs was in the same panel in which Madara sensed Tobirama.

Zero proof that Shinra Tensei has the force to overpower fists that have enough force behind them to blow open Susanoo. Also irrelevant since he'd need his strongest ST to even stand a chance, which means his cooldown is larger thus he dies a terrible death.

There's no proof either that Madara's Almighty Push couldn't break Susano'o. Not to mention that Eighty Gods Vacuum Attack would not kill Madara. It doesn't have the force to do anything major to an immortal besides pushing him back. He isn't a shadow clone that poofs. Even Naruto took it straight on without much injury. Two times.

Stop arguing for Madara when Manga said he's weaker. It makes you look like a fanboy too.

There's not a quote in the entire manga that says he's weaker. Simply one that says he has less chakra.