Jiriaya = Strongest ninja ever?
- Thread starter Shodaime
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6th hokage
Member
man thats a long story!! first of all we dont know enough of these characters to judge who is stronger. but here is my argument against some of the points ppl has put up-
1) its not fair to downgrade 1st and 2nd's ability. we dont virtually know anything abt 2nd. so he doesnt even come into equation. abt 1st, personally i think he is the 2nd strongest. he pawned madara at his prime(acc to previous manga), he cud control all the bijuu like his pet, and he had unique abilities none had. someone mentioned 3rd had beaten 1st & 2nd, but forgot to mention they were just zombie puppets, and didnt have anywhere near the ability/intensity they wud have had if they were alive.
2) also its not just j-man, i wud argue many ppl like hanzou, oro (when he had his arms) cud have beaten pain, had they known his secrets. but u can say other ppl has secrets and the same logic can apply in favor of pain too. the reality is he is way too stronger than those. we have not seen pain's full abilities yet.
3) ppl has been saying much abt susano, before itachis fight we havent even seen this. my point is who knows we cud get another weapon which is much stronger than susano or at least can counter it at an even level. so possesing doesnt conclude one is strongest.
j-man can be in top 7, but i dont think he is strongest or even 2nd strongest.
1) its not fair to downgrade 1st and 2nd's ability. we dont virtually know anything abt 2nd. so he doesnt even come into equation. abt 1st, personally i think he is the 2nd strongest. he pawned madara at his prime(acc to previous manga), he cud control all the bijuu like his pet, and he had unique abilities none had. someone mentioned 3rd had beaten 1st & 2nd, but forgot to mention they were just zombie puppets, and didnt have anywhere near the ability/intensity they wud have had if they were alive.
2) also its not just j-man, i wud argue many ppl like hanzou, oro (when he had his arms) cud have beaten pain, had they known his secrets. but u can say other ppl has secrets and the same logic can apply in favor of pain too. the reality is he is way too stronger than those. we have not seen pain's full abilities yet.
3) ppl has been saying much abt susano, before itachis fight we havent even seen this. my point is who knows we cud get another weapon which is much stronger than susano or at least can counter it at an even level. so possesing doesnt conclude one is strongest.
j-man can be in top 7, but i dont think he is strongest or even 2nd strongest.
6th hokage
Member
twistedlink
Banned
No i dont hate Jiraiya, i just hate the fact that everyone says he wouldve won against pein if hed known his secret, well obviously.
thats like saying sakura would win against sasori if she knew all his secrets (hidden moves in the puppets)
and whatdya know, chiyo DID know his secrets, and SAKURA won, it doesnt mean sakuras stronger.
Jiraiya wasnt stronger than pein BECAUSE he didnt figure out the secret quick enough, this is why people like kakashi become high jounins and hokage's, theyre SMART, the whole point of a shinobi is to be able to see weak spots and come up with ideas of a shinobis defences, if jiraiya knew his secret out of battle then its not a fair match.
Jiraiya was owning pein??
Maybe you should read the manga again, most of his attacks missed or were absorbed, he ran like a bitch when summons where chasing and attacking him, and he even stated in hermit mode he couldnt hurt him,
Jiraiya used the strongest hermit genjutsu we have seen so far just to dispose of a few higher puppets.
Pein is much stronger than jiraiya, ninjas strengths arent bound to ninjutsu strength or amounts, and speeds, its about defences and secrets of defence.
Its silly because unless you contradict yourself you can say
"If kakashi knew how tobi was avoiding the attacks, he wouldve beaten tobi"
I know pein said jiraiya wouldve won if hed known his secret, but he didnt know his secret because he didnt figure it out fast enough, therefore he is a lesser shinobi than pein.
I think the J man is great, I loved his character and i am pissed off he died and didnt escape, but i dont like all the stuff people keep saying about peins secret and how pein was cheating etc.
Pein won fair and square, pein is stronger than Jiraiya.
Naruto will be stronger than Jiraiya (sage mode will be better) when he defeats pein.
Its simple transitive inference
A>B>C
musicgenesis
Active member
twistedlink
Banned
Yeah i get that, but thats a handicap to pein.
Put it this way, think of it like a pokemon game, you have 6 different elemental pokemon, and youre playing the game for the first time, your rival appears (what pokemon will he have?)
because you know nothing about this enemy you had your electric pokemon at the front, oh look, he has ground at his front, you lose.
However if you turn the gameboy off and on again, you KNOW he has ground, and you simply equip your water to the front, and own him.
Knowing an enemies secrets is OBVIOUSLY going to let you win, im not doubting that, what i hate is the fact that people think jiraiya is stronger,
Hes not, he wasnt smart enough to figure out his secret in time, therefore pein is stronger (not LITERALLY stronger)
Gaara has little stamina at all, he is weak in terms of physical strength, but he is one of the "strongest" shinobi.
Pein is legendarily "strong" because he has a secret defence, like MOST ninja, only his takes longer to figure out, and his 6 puppets make it hard to think and fight.
Put it this way, think of it like a pokemon game, you have 6 different elemental pokemon, and youre playing the game for the first time, your rival appears (what pokemon will he have?)
because you know nothing about this enemy you had your electric pokemon at the front, oh look, he has ground at his front, you lose.
However if you turn the gameboy off and on again, you KNOW he has ground, and you simply equip your water to the front, and own him.
Knowing an enemies secrets is OBVIOUSLY going to let you win, im not doubting that, what i hate is the fact that people think jiraiya is stronger,
Hes not, he wasnt smart enough to figure out his secret in time, therefore pein is stronger (not LITERALLY stronger)
Gaara has little stamina at all, he is weak in terms of physical strength, but he is one of the "strongest" shinobi.
Pein is legendarily "strong" because he has a secret defence, like MOST ninja, only his takes longer to figure out, and his 6 puppets make it hard to think and fight.
twistedlink
Banned
Put it this way, implant shikamarus mind power with jiraiyas strength and sage mode etc.
THAT wouldve owned pain.
A shinobis strength is based on many things
His abilities
His moveset
His intelligence
His use of the environment around him
speed
literal strength
defence
SECRETS to make the fight harder for the enemy!!!
etc etc etc
Pein won fair and square, pein is stronger.
THAT wouldve owned pain.
A shinobis strength is based on many things
His abilities
His moveset
His intelligence
His use of the environment around him
speed
literal strength
defence
SECRETS to make the fight harder for the enemy!!!
etc etc etc
Pein won fair and square, pein is stronger.
UchlhaSasuke
Active member
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So far Jiraiya said himself he may have to kill tsunade during the 3 sanin arc
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He was also on par with orochimaru even when his chakra was practicly gone
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Itachi and Kisame had to run from him
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He could of killed the pein the AK leader if he knew his secret
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could Jiraiya kill Tobi/Obito/Madarabut i believe madara have the sword of totsuka because orochimaru said he was looking for it but itachi had it.. so thats mean there is only one of it.. and itachi had it .. and i think now sasuke have it
i understand what you're saying man. pein vs. J-man was a fair fight but J-man chose to stay and die to get pein's secret to kohona. one of the frogs said the J-man probably could've escaped but he felt learning pein's secret was more important. pein did beat J-man fair and square and hopefully his sacrifice will tip the scales in kohona's favor in the up coming encounter.
would it be safe to say that J-man isn't the strongest shinobi ever but maybe the 3rd greatest... after yondaime and itachi... maybe greatness can be measured but how much a person is will to put on the line, how much they're willing to sacrifice to protect the people, for the greater good. my top 3 are yondaime, itachi, J-man
lol for the whole jiraiya vs itachi thing.....go to google, search "jiraiya vs itachi poll" and look at every websites percent. the overall human vote doesn't lie..........
ppl who say itachi would win are stubborn uchiha fans.
ppl who say itachi would win are stubborn uchiha fans.
QwertyHero
Active member
Itachi would win.
If they were laying it all out on the line, no holds barred match, Itachi pulling out all of his MS moves and Jiraiya in sage mode, who would win?
Tell me, who would win?
Itachi of course.
Amaterasu is enough to take him out as Jiraiya, even in sage mode, wouldn't have enough speed to counter it.
And yes, he could dispel Amaterasu, but if he's being chased around by it and engulfed by it, I doubt he would have the time to dispel it.
Then you bring Susanoo into it, which I think would mean curtain death for anyone facing Itachi.
Itachi was also more skilled in Taijutsu, as he could battle on par with Gai.
And the funny thing is, we've NEVER seen Itachi at 100% power, but I don't think Jiraiya at 100% sage mode could defeat Itachi at 50% let alone 100%.
Itachi just seems like the obvious choice.
All eye techniques still require the user to see the opponent. Even Zabuza came up with stuff to counter sharingan. Kakashi had to use something else to beat him. I'm not sayin that Kakashi's Sharingan use is anything close to Itachi, I'm just pointin out that having the eyes doesn't automatically mean victory. Hermit mode is still great too, mostly because it's not just Jiraiya you're dealin with, it's Ma and Pa too. If Ma and Pa are there, they can disturb Jiraiya's chakra flow, meaning no genjutsu. The "Ultimate Rasengan" could possibly be one of the strongest attacks seen in the series. Unfortunetely the one person it hit can "eat" chakra. You don't know whether it's powerful enough to harm Susanoo but it's still work thinking about. There must have been something Jiraiya can do that Itachi knows that made him not want to fight him, even with the help of Kisame.
QwertyHero
Active member
I'm not saying that Sharingan=victory but it's something hat can nearly assure him victory.
And yes, I took in account the fact that Genjutsu's wouldn't work against him, that's why I didn't mention Tsukuyomi.
Ultimate Rasengan is great, it's crazy powerful and one of the most powerful jutsu's we've seen these far, but it still suffers from the same problems that the regular Rasengan suffers from.
Range.
Even with the size of it, you still have to be quite close in order to use it, and it's not like you can secretly build up that huge amount of chakra without Itachi noticing.
I would think that he could dodge it before it hit.
Also, I don't think anything can harm Susanoo I mean, he got hit with Kirin, a jutsu that would have turned anyone else into dust.
And the only reason he didn't fight Jiraiya was because he didn't want to.
He didn't want to fight an ally of Konoha because he knew if he fought Jiraiya, he would be risking both there lives.
Plus, other Konoha Jonin were on Itachi's trail, he couldn't stop to have this long, drawn out battle with Jiraiya or he would've surely been killed.
ok... SOme caracters never meet each other and fight so thers no way we can tell witch caracters are really stronger then others, Ppl say students surpases master... its not true, i been in Tae kwon do and kick boxing for 8 years and i have lots of exp but my master watches me train and treins me he knows all my moves he can really kick my ass n really bad, but the only way i will surpass him is wen he gets old. Some caracters have technics that wont work on some and will kill others. LOl this arguement will never end because we are all goin for favorites and not common sence, my fave is jaraiya and if he new pains secret he would of won, tsunade i think will get closer in defeating him because of jaraiya. Jaraiya is one or was the strongest just because he knew Nature chakra only ppl wit large amounts o chakra can learn it.
ok guys im tired of argueing. sorry if i stirred up chaos. but this is MY opinion on jiraiya vs itachi. feel free to respond however you like 
obviously i am not an uchiha fan. and im NOT saying itachi is weak(cuz hell no he is not). but in my mind i think its hard for itachi to hit jiraiya with any jutsu.
cuz tsukiyomi requires opponent to be slow and/or "somewhat" unexperienced in combat. amaterasu requires opponent to be slow(kind of). susanou would be intense for jiraiya but his hermit jumping speed would be too quick for it in MY opinion. if you watch the episode where jiraiya jumped at pein with ultimate rasengan, it was around probly 100 yards instant movement. and his fastest jutsu with the needle barrage, i mean, that was like almost teleporting. plus jiraiya is VERY smart in terms of coming up with strategies. itachi is also VERY smart seeing how he became ANBU captain at the age of like 13!!!!.
Once again im not saying Itachi is weak AT ALL. but i think jiraiya is just a tough match for him. thats all.
obviously i am not an uchiha fan. and im NOT saying itachi is weak(cuz hell no he is not). but in my mind i think its hard for itachi to hit jiraiya with any jutsu.
cuz tsukiyomi requires opponent to be slow and/or "somewhat" unexperienced in combat. amaterasu requires opponent to be slow(kind of). susanou would be intense for jiraiya but his hermit jumping speed would be too quick for it in MY opinion. if you watch the episode where jiraiya jumped at pein with ultimate rasengan, it was around probly 100 yards instant movement. and his fastest jutsu with the needle barrage, i mean, that was like almost teleporting. plus jiraiya is VERY smart in terms of coming up with strategies. itachi is also VERY smart seeing how he became ANBU captain at the age of like 13!!!!.
Once again im not saying Itachi is weak AT ALL. but i think jiraiya is just a tough match for him. thats all.
twistedlink
Banned
Okay guys, susano has the sword of totsuka and yatas mirror, J-man cant hurt itachi one single bit if itachi released susano from the beginning of the fight, and even worse itachi has amaterasu which doesnt require the user to look into the sharingan.
Were also forgetting the fact that itachi can use very advanced genjutsu with his fingers, and J man stated clearly hes not that good at attacking or defending with genjutsu.
In fact the one weakness J man has is genjutsu, making itachi, the most strongest genjutsu user ever known so far, his worst opponent ever.
I dont like uchihas, and i hate the overuse of sharingan, but you cant put personal annoyances into the equation.
Itachi would win hands down against Jiraiya.
Orochimaru is extremely powerful, at the very worst he is on the same level as Jiraiya, at best, better than Jiraiya, and itachi got rid of orochimaru in seconds with susano.
Its a talent very few of us in the world have.
J man wouldnt win against itachi because of yatas mirror, at best J man can only draw with itachi, the problem is itachi can simply wear J man out, itachi has a literal unbreakable defence, he can use little chakra and make J man have to continuously dodge, deflect, and attack.
Before you know it J man will start to slow down, and his attacks will get shoddier.
J man would lose.
Itachi is the Number 1 strongest ninja so far for the mere fact no attack can ever hurt him, the best anyone can do against itachi is draw, and run away when they realise no attack will work.
Were also forgetting the fact that itachi can use very advanced genjutsu with his fingers, and J man stated clearly hes not that good at attacking or defending with genjutsu.
In fact the one weakness J man has is genjutsu, making itachi, the most strongest genjutsu user ever known so far, his worst opponent ever.
I dont like uchihas, and i hate the overuse of sharingan, but you cant put personal annoyances into the equation.
Itachi would win hands down against Jiraiya.
Orochimaru is extremely powerful, at the very worst he is on the same level as Jiraiya, at best, better than Jiraiya, and itachi got rid of orochimaru in seconds with susano.
I am truly amazed you can work out exact figures of speed from non animated pictures.
Its a talent very few of us in the world have.
J man wouldnt win against itachi because of yatas mirror, at best J man can only draw with itachi, the problem is itachi can simply wear J man out, itachi has a literal unbreakable defence, he can use little chakra and make J man have to continuously dodge, deflect, and attack.
Before you know it J man will start to slow down, and his attacks will get shoddier.
J man would lose.
Itachi is the Number 1 strongest ninja so far for the mere fact no attack can ever hurt him, the best anyone can do against itachi is draw, and run away when they realise no attack will work.
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Itachi's "judgement" on loyal Konoha ninja didn't stop him from tellin Kisame to kill Asuma and Kurenai. Then wanting Kisame to bring Kakashi back alive because he knew too much. And before this goes too far lemme just say, I think Itachi's cool. It's not hate for the character or anything. But I think Jiraiya's abilities were probably documented by anyone who was around during the Ninja Wars and there is some trick/technique/whatever that would make Itachi hesitant to fight him. Could be the number one of the things written on the scroll he carries around, could be fear of fightin the guy in one of his toads, could be the barrier that apparently kills you on contact, could be the sheer experience of being around THAT long. And they weren't in Konoha when they decided to run. I'm talkin about when they were more focused on separating NAruto from Jiraiya in that random town.
omg.......
1)tsukiyomi wouldn't even effect j-man.
2)amaterasu can't catch j-man.
3)susanou can't catch him in hermit mode.
jiraiya is too DEFENSIVE.
once he activates susanou, jiraiya just gets inside a frog until itachi uses up his chakra.
then BAM jiraiya bitch slaps emo fag.
end of story.
also the whole theory of itachi running from jiraiya BECAUSE he didn't WANT to fight a comrade is stupid. it didn't stop itachi from bringing kakashi to near-death twice. why would he almost kill kakashi and not touch jiraiya? because he's a scared little uchiha biatch.
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