jiraiya vs akatsuki

[DrProof]

Was simply reinforcing his point. It's very easy to comprehend, true, however you'll always have a few unfortunate users who will continue to make an absolute mess out of everything, evident by ToshiZo's indirect "rebuttal" to my post. And I get a lot of things end up as conjecture here, but this is not one of those cases. It's either you get it, or you fabricate and misconstrue things to fit your opinion. Can't really be helped.



So believing the alternative makes more sense to you? Itachi required additional back up from the Akatsuki just to take down Jiraiya, when he already destroyed Orochimaru without breaking a sweat? Or would the strongest Biju, by far, require the Akatsuki's back up. Take your pick.

This is not something to be viewed as controversial. This is literally like you saying, I can't see how the Philadelphia Eagles wear green... It shouldn't be up for discussion, because it's right in the manga page. The slightest bit of Kurama's presence immediately alarmed Itachi and Kisame. Fact. Nothing on Jiraiya's presence received the same response. Fact. Alternatively, Kisame chuckled and said he never believed the delaying tactic would of worked in the first place. So what does that tell you? They were expecting him to show up eventually. Now, If Kurama's mere chakra disturbed them, imagine if Kurama was completely released right in front of them. Legit feel like I'm explaining the A-B-C's.

Baffled honestly bro.

 

[Forbidden Technique]

Baffled honestly bro.

Big facts. It's really getting spooky out here on these NB streets. Someone need to start another classic rap battle.

 

[DrProof]

Big facts. It's really getting spooky out here on these NB streets. Someone need to start another classic rap battle.

Only OG members know about that NB rap shit. They not ready.

 

[Zexion~]

Itachi endorsed it though. And Kisame more so likes to underrate his opponents lol.



Yeah man, Kishi intended to hype up Jiraiya in that scan so he can later dehype him.

You must be registered for see images

Makes perfect sense.

I suppose lol but again its pretty obvious it was a Kishi-boner for the Sannin because Itachi thrashed the guy who is by all right >>Jiraiya so why would he be worried about him?

Kisame hyped Roshi despite showing no signs of trouble

Hyped Gai to the Akatsuki when they were deciding who should go confront him

Hyped Bee at first and then chuckled when he realized he wasn't all that

 

[EliteKakashi]

Even when the manga page itself makes obvious(assuming you're able to read) what is being said, there are still people who try and deny it. Then you have someone clear it up with even more manga pages, and it's still denied.

Woo boy.

I don't miss this website at all.

And for the person who asked about Itachi saying Kurama was a hero who had a weakness..no, he was talking about Jiraiya at that point, because Kisame had just changed the subject to the babysitter of Naruto/Kurama, Jiraiya.

And for the person who said "why would they try and kidnap Naruto without Jiraiya there?!?!" well why the **** do you think?

Fight the sannin to get to Naruto or don't the fight the sannin to get to Naruto..which should we choose..

Like holy shit the level of stupidity it requires to have that line of thought.

 

[Ken Masters]

Coming back from my hiatus just to note that Kisame nor Itachi were speaking about Jiraiya in that famous manga page. They were speaking about the kyuubi, gotta read it in it's context, because the structure makes no sense if they're referring to Jiraiya.

The viz page:

You must be registered for see images

"Even if you might be able to take HIM on, I'm not so sure about me. HE'S in a different league."

"It was great finally finding HIM at the ramen shop, but.. HIS babysitter was one of the three great shinobi of konoha legend"

So..Jiraiya is babysitting Jiraiya?

No. Jiraiya is babysitting Naruto. That is the he(and why I emphasized the he/him etc) Kisame is referring to(well, the beast inside Naruto).

Kisame even notes after their encounter with Jiraiya that Itachi could have taken him.

You must be registered for see images

This came after Kisame had subdued Naruto by taking his chakra away from him so he was no longer considered a potential threat in releasing the kyuubi.

As far as responding to the thread, Jiraiya can win against everyone outside of Obito, Pain and Itachi. I suppose you could add Orochimaru to this list if you're counting him, but I think that's more of a toss up than a win either way. There are scenarios where he could beat Pain and Itachi but they rely solely on Gama Rinsho which is difficult to set up. against them.

I'm glad that you're out of your hiatus, but Kisame was talking about Jiraya and not Naruto/Kurama I'll explain why.

Let's get the context right by inserting the right names in the conversation.

"Even if you might be able to take Jiraya on, I'm not so sure about me. Jiraya's in a different league."

"It was great finally finding Jinchuriki at the ramen shop, but.. Jinchuriki's babysitter was one of the three great shinobi of konoha legend"​

Now, those two(Kisame and Itachi) were observing Jiraya and Naruto from that cliff and going back and forth by looking (say pointing) at them and talking. So the first sentence HIM and HE'S is when Kisame is looking (consider pointing) at Jiraya and then in the next time he's speaking about Naruto after looking at him (consider pointing at). And the conversation makes complete sense without any speck of doubt.

One more important thing that we should not forget is that the Tailed Beasts were always referred as 'IT' and never 'HIM' or 'HER'. It was only post the War Arc Naruto started to refer them as HIM/HER. So if Kisame was really talking about Naruto's Kyuubi then he'd said;

"Even if you might be able to take IT on, I'm not so sure about me. IT's in a different league."​

but that's not what happened because he was talking about Jiraya. The Anime made it very clear that it was about Jiraya as well.

One more thing let's not shit on Jiraya by saying Kisame takes him High diff etc, because Kisame never could hope to defeat 7th Gate Gai who was on par with Kamui Kakashi as witnessed in war arc. And Kakashi openly admitted being lesser than Jiraya before war arc.

And finally, words of wisdom by none other than Akatsuki Leader:

You must be registered for see images

 

[Zexion~]

Lol first part was Kurama second was Jiraiya

 

[Ken Masters]

Sure, didn't know that Kisame was such a gentle hearted person to call a tailed beast (which he was there to kidnap and extract to use as a chakra weapon) as a HE. #Sarcasm

 

[ToshiZO]

I'm glad that you're out of your hiatus, but Kisame was talking about Jiraya and not Naruto/Kurama I'll explain why.

Let's get the context right by inserting the right names in the conversation.

"Even if you might be able to take Jiraya on, I'm not so sure about me. Jiraya's in a different league."

"It was great finally finding Jinchuriki at the ramen shop, but.. Jinchuriki's babysitter was one of the three great shinobi of konoha legend"​

Now, those two(Kisame and Itachi) were observing Jiraya and Naruto from that cliff and going back and forth by looking (say pointing) at them and talking. So the first sentence HIM and HE'S is when Kisame is looking (consider pointing) at Jiraya and then in the next time he's speaking about Naruto after looking at him (consider pointing at). And the conversation makes complete sense without any speck of doubt.

One more important thing that we should not forget is that the Tailed Beasts were always referred as 'IT' and never 'HIM' or 'HER'. It was only post the War Arc Naruto started to refer them as HIM/HER. So if Kisame was really talking about Naruto's Kyuubi then he'd said;

"Even if you might be able to take IT on, I'm not so sure about me. IT's in a different league."​

but that's not what happened because he was talking about Jiraya. The Anime made it very clear that it was about Jiraya as well.

One more thing let's not shit on Jiraya by saying Kisame takes him High diff etc, because Kisame never could hope to defeat 7th Gate Gai who was on par with Kamui Kakashi as witnessed in war arc. And Kakashi openly admitted being lesser than Jiraya before war arc.

And finally, words of wisdom by none other than Akatsuki Leader:

You must be registered for see images

Common sense still exists among some I guess.

 

[Zexion~]

I'm glad that you're out of your hiatus, but Kisame was talking about Jiraya and not Naruto/Kurama I'll explain why.

Let's get the context right by inserting the right names in the conversation.

"Even if you might be able to take Jiraya on, I'm not so sure about me. Jiraya's in a different league."

"It was great finally finding Jinchuriki at the ramen shop, but.. Jinchuriki's babysitter was one of the three great shinobi of konoha legend"​

Now, those two(Kisame and Itachi) were observing Jiraya and Naruto from that cliff and going back and forth by looking (say pointing) at them and talking. So the first sentence HIM and HE'S is when Kisame is looking (consider pointing) at Jiraya and then in the next time he's speaking about Naruto after looking at him (consider pointing at). And the conversation makes complete sense without any speck of doubt.

One more important thing that we should not forget is that the Tailed Beasts were always referred as 'IT' and never 'HIM' or 'HER'. It was only post the War Arc Naruto started to refer them as HIM/HER. So if Kisame was really talking about Naruto's Kyuubi then he'd said;

"Even if you might be able to take IT on, I'm not so sure about me. IT's in a different league."​

but that's not what happened because he was talking about Jiraya. The Anime made it very clear that it was about Jiraya as well.

One more thing let's not shit on Jiraya by saying Kisame takes him High diff etc, because Kisame never could hope to defeat 7th Gate Gai who was on par with Kamui Kakashi as witnessed in war arc. And Kakashi openly admitted being lesser than Jiraya before war arc.

And finally, words of wisdom by none other than Akatsuki Leader:

You must be registered for see images

You can't use Gai for Kisame portrayal because he's literally Kisame's worst matchup lol

Also Kisame mid-diffs Animal + Preta + Human path lol

 

[Ken Masters]

You can't use Gai for Kisame portrayal because he's literally Kisame's worst matchup lol

Also Kisame mid-diffs Animal + Preta + Human path lol

Worst matchup? lel Gai doesn't have mastery over Ninjutsu or Genjutsu he can't even be called as anyone's bad matchup. Also cerberus shits on Kisame.

 

[Zexion~]

Worst matchup? lel Gai doesn't have mastery over Ninjutsu or Genjutsu he can't be called anyone's bad matchup. Also cerberus shits on Kisame.

Exactly....and Kisame stomps users of Ninjutsu lol someone who doesn't use chakra VS someone who's main asset is absorbing chakra, which one is at a disadvantage?

Lol Kisame has a valid way to put down Cerberus, and that is simply absorbing its chakra.

 

[Zexion~]

Coming back from my hiatus just to note that Kisame nor Itachi were speaking about Jiraiya in that famous manga page. They were speaking about the kyuubi, gotta read it in it's context, because the structure makes no sense if they're referring to Jiraiya.

The viz page:

You must be registered for see images

"Even if you might be able to take HIM on, I'm not so sure about me. HE'S in a different league."

"It was great finally finding HIM at the ramen shop, but.. HIS babysitter was one of the three great shinobi of konoha legend"

So..Jiraiya is babysitting Jiraiya?

No. Jiraiya is babysitting Naruto. That is the he(and why I emphasized the he/him etc) Kisame is referring to(well, the beast inside Naruto).

Kisame even notes after their encounter with Jiraiya that Itachi could have taken him.

You must be registered for see images

This came after Kisame had subdued Naruto by taking his chakra away from him so he was no longer considered a potential threat in releasing the kyuubi.

As far as responding to the thread, Jiraiya can win against everyone outside of Obito, Pain and Itachi. I suppose you could add Orochimaru to this list if you're counting him, but I think that's more of a toss up than a win either way. There are scenarios where he could beat Pain and Itachi but they rely solely on Gama Rinsho which is difficult to set up. against them.

I'm also really tempted to somehow get this entire post over to NF Lol

 

[Ken Masters]

Exactly....and Kisame stomps users of Ninjutsu lol someone who doesn't use chakra VS someone who's main asset is absorbing chakra, which one is at a disadvantage?

Lol Kisame has a valid way to put down Cerberus, and that is simply absorbing its chakra.

Kisame doesn't stomp Ninjutsu users, I don't see him stomping any of the high tier Ninjutsu users such as Kakashi, Trollkage, Ohonoki, Muu, Garra, Ay, Bee, Oro, J-Man, Sasori, Tsunade, Mei, Kakuzu etc. No need to even mention the higher tier.

Chakra absorption? Lel does Kisame fancy turning into a stone statue of frog? because that's what likely to happen if it's his MAIN ASSET

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Inb4 you say Jiraya is shit in Sage Mode.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

One more thing, Kisame has absolutely nothing on Cerberus stop grasping at straws.

I'm also really tempted to somehow get this entire post over to NF Lol

Sure, but NF will prolly tear you a new one for it. Just saying.

 

[Zexion~]

Kisame doesn't stomp Ninjutsu users, I don't see him stomping any of the high tier Ninjutsu users such as Kakashi, Trollkage, Ohonoki, Muu, Garra, Ay, Bee, Oro, J-Man, Sasori, Tsunade, Mei, Kakuzu etc. No need to even mention the higher tier.

Chakra absorption? Lel does Kisame fancy turning into a stone statue of frog? because that's what likely to happen if it's his MAIN ASSET

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

You must be registered for see images

Inb4 you say Jiraya is shit in Sage Mode.

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

One more thing, Kisame has absolutely nothing on Cerberus stop grasping at straws.



Sure, but NF will prolly tear you a new one for it. Just saying.

Lol pretty sure only reason Preta turned to stone because it was standing still allowing him to gather the nature energy and the chakra.

 

[Icelerate]

I read NF's translation thread on heavily debated statements and the translators claim the whole conversation was about Jiraiya, not the Kyuubi. Ken Masters point on Kisame saying "him" instead of "it" further reinforces this claim.

You must be registered for see links

forums.com/threads/translations-of-heavily-debated-statements.1035110/page-2

The contradiction is that Itachi was then portrayed to be above Jiraiya when Kisame asked "why is a retreat necessary even for you" but that just means they first over estimated Jiraiya due to his hype.

 

[EliteKakashi]

I read NF's translation thread on heavily debated statements and the translators claim the whole conversation was about Jiraiya, not the Kyuubi. Ken Masters point on Kisame saying "him" instead of "it" further reinforces this claim.

You must be registered for see links

forums.com/threads/translations-of-heavily-debated-statements.1035110/page-2

The contradiction is that Itachi was then portrayed to be above Jiraiya when Kisame asked "why is a retreat necessary even for you" but that just means they first over estimated Jiraiya due to his hype.

Kisame completely reevaluated his stance on Jiraiya after only seeing 1 technique of his(that they ran from no less, and would have died to if not for amaterasu...well, Kisame would have anyway. Itachi still technically had susanoo)?

That makes even less sense.

Contextually it only makes sense if they're talking about Kurama and that's only reinforced by what Kisame says later.

Even Itachi doesn't disagree that he could have taken down Jiraiya, noting he only ran because there was no need to kill him at that moment and his body needed rest after having used both tsukuyomi and amaterasu in the same day.

That's a far cry from "Even if I had back up, not sure I could take him on".

The only person/being/whatever that fits is Kurama.

 

[TheEvilOne]

Kisame completely reevaluated his stance on Jiraiya after only seeing 1 technique of his(that they ran from no less, and would have died to if not for amaterasu...well, Kisame would have anyway. Itachi still technically had susanoo)?

That makes even less sense.

Itachi later explained he was already tired from using Tsukuyomi on Sasuke and Kakashi, and he also had to use Amaterasu to escape Jiraiya's technique. He had to rest, didn't wanted to risk an unnecessary battle with one of the legendary ninjas.

 

[EliteKakashi]

Itachi later explained he was already tired from using Tsukuyomi on Sasuke and Kakashi, and he also had to use Amaterasu to escape Jiraiya's technique. He had to rest, didn't wanted to risk an unnecessary battle with one of the legendary ninjas.

Edited my post covering that, and that really only backs up my point further. The only reason Itachi didn't want to fight Jiraiya was because he'd exhausted himself from earlier fights. Had nothing to do with not being able/not being confident in his ability to take him down.

 

[Icelerate]

Kisame completely reevaluated his stance on Jiraiya after only seeing 1 technique of his(that they ran from no less, and would have died to if not for amaterasu...well, Kisame would have anyway. Itachi still technically had susanoo)?

That makes even less sense.

Contextually it only makes sense if they're talking about Kurama and that's only reinforced by what Kisame says later.

Even Itachi doesn't disagree that he could have taken down Jiraiya, noting he only ran because there was no need to kill him at that moment and his body needed rest after having used both tsukuyomi and amaterasu in the same day.

That's a far cry from "Even if I had back up, not sure I could take him on".

The only person/being/whatever that fits is Kurama.

Is there even one translation that emphasizes that Kyuubi was referred to as "him". It was kind of random to bring up the Kyuubi when the likelihood of fighting the Kyuubi was approximately zero. Also bijuu are not to be killed so Itachi saying we'd both die makes no sense if he was talking about Naruto or the Kyuubi as they were there to capture them. If you say the battle would be too hard to capture Naruto/Kyuubi, that makes no sense because sealing/capturing a bijuu/jinchuriki, especially with Itachi's arsenal, is much easier than killing them.

I agree that Kisame suddenly changing his mind after seeing one technique doesn't make much sense but neither makes much sense.