Jigen and So6P powers prediction

wanderingcactus

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With the recent chapter's revelations, we can now say that Kawaki can turn into an alien much like Jigen. This pose a possibility that Jigen is simply the recipient of the mark as well, although at a later stage. That means that he is not Kaguya's partner but a successor.

I also have mentioned that he seems relatively human and it is least likely that he would be Kaguya's partner.
Which brings the question about Jigen:
"How exactly did he come across the mark?"
"How old is he?"
"If he has been around for quite awhile, why has he remained incognito?"

My guess is that the Karma acts like a vampire power. If you've been bitten, you can gain their powers but will be subjected to the power of the Elder (originator). Jigen's actions seem out there. He does not seem to pose as a huge threat and really just wants to create a successful Karma holder.

He's basically Orochimaru 2.0. As for the vessel, I believe that he plans on making Kawaki the juubi's jin and considering what we know so far, it could possibly bring back Kaguya's partner. Similar to Black Zetsu resurrecting Kaguya from Madara.


As for the byakugou, I've stated it before, I will say it again. It is a washed down Sage Mode. As Tsunade had already mentioned, she came up with the seal because she can't do Hashirama's sage mode.

I'm not sure if you remember but I've said this before:

Hashirama path (Yin) > Rinnegan and Sage Mode
Hamura path (Yang) > Tenseigan and Chakra Mode (cloak, weapons, chains, etc)

There's always this duality theme present and it has been a persistent theme in Naruto. I doubt that Boruto will deviate much from that.


I don't think Boruto will be able to awaken a Rinnegan (if my theory is correct) unless he eats a chakra fruit.
Even then, it is not like Yin and Yang can exist in one vessel.

We know this through Momoshiki and Kinshiki. In their base stage: Momoshiki can only use his rinnegan and Kinshiki can only use his Chakra mode. Even Kaguya couldn't use Tenseigan (although I would say that it was due to her being released before the 'The Last' movie was released and they didn't want to spoil)

Even when Momoshiki ate Kinshiki, he still posed no Tenseigan abilities nor chakra mode. All we got is even more Rinnegan and Sage mode.
(I'm talking about the manga instead of the movie because that was complete garbage and this is the one moment that manga trumped Kishimoto)



I doubt Boruto can get a Rinnegan even if the theory is correct because he and his family are attributed to the Yang affinity.
 
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wanderingcactus

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You have insulted the byakugo my friend. Watered down sage mode? Wash your mouth out with that water.

How exactly is it not? Unless Boruto manga successfully retconned it, right now, it truly is. Tsunade couldn't sage mode so this was her work around.

Madara even said that the byakugou pales in comparison to Hashirama's sage mode.
 

Animegoin

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I don't think Boruto will be able to awaken a Rinnegan (if my theory is correct) unless he eats a chakra fruit.
Even then, it is not like Yin and Yang can exist in one vessel.

We know this through Momoshiki and Kinshiki. In their base stage: Momoshiki can only use his rinnegan and Kinshiki can only use his Chakra mode. Even Kaguya couldn't use Tenseigan (although I would say that it was due to her being released before the 'The Last' movie was released and they didn't want to spoil)

Even when Momoshiki ate Kinshiki, he still posed no Tenseigan abilities nor chakra mode. All we got is even more Rinnegan and Sage mode.
(I'm talking about the manga instead of the movie because that was complete garbage and this is the one moment that manga trumped Kishimoto)

I doubt Boruto can get a Rinnegan even if the theory is correct because he and his family are attributed to the Yang affinity.
@Bold: Debatable, firstly the Tenseigan seems to be a mutation of the Byakugan that only impure Otsutuski can manifest. Hamura being born from Kaguya after she’d eaten the fruit attests to this theory.

Secondly, Kinshiki is said to be able to absorb chakra and he’s been seen teleporting (using his s/t technique). He has a Rinnegan but it hasn’t been shown for whatever reason; almost like the non-canon Urashiki where they showed his last minute.

And again, Neither Momoshiki nor Kinshiki manifesting the Tenseigan is because they aren’t impure Otsutsuki. Or because the Tenseigan isn’t canon 😝
 

wanderingcactus

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@Bold: Debatable, firstly the Tenseigan seems to be a mutation of the Byakugan that only impure Otsutuski can manifest. Hamura being born from Kaguya after she’d eaten the fruit attests to this theory.

Secondly, Kinshiki is said to be able to absorb chakra and he’s been seen teleporting (using his s/t technique). He has a Rinnegan but it hasn’t been shown for whatever reason; almost like the non-canon Urashiki where they showed his last minute.

And again, Neither Momoshiki nor Kinshiki manifesting the Tenseigan is because they aren’t impure Otsutsuki. Or because the Tenseigan isn’t canon 😝


Well Kishimoto certainly had a duality theme going on. Like a Yin and Yang and quite possibly the reason why he dropped Urashiki (3rd baddie) from the movie.

This Yin and Yang theme has been throughout the series but you may argue UP TO A POINT that was only for Kaguya's descendants. Reason being is that when we finally got Momoshiki and Kinshiki appear, there is still the duality theme of Mind (YIN = doujutsu) and Body (YANG = chakra/lifeforce).

Being able to absorb chakra is probably a latent talent of all celestials much like having byakugan because we see Toneri use this ability as well and he has Yang affinity.

Though a merely speculation, it points heavily that Tenseigan IS NOT something for impure Otsutsuki. The reason being is that if the Tenseigan exists in a watered down version (Hamura) then how did it become more powerful than its potent counterpart, the pure-blooded celestials?

Unless you mean that the Tenseigan is only achievable AFTER a chakra fruit has been eaten, then, it would seem to be the most believable explanation. Arguably, eating a chakra fruit SHOULD upgrade the Byakugan as well. However, we have never seen a Yang eat a chakra fruit before (unless Kaguya is one as she lacks Rinnegan). If that were the case, Tenseigan should be present and the only reason why it should not is merely due to Kishimoto not spoiling but in terms of lore, perhaps she was unaware. Although, she should have been aware by the time she revived as she had fought Hamura before.

What we know:
Base celestial beings function in partners. One with Yin and one with Yang. Both have byakugans. Yin has a built in Rinnegan (meaning that they don't need the chakra fruit) and Yang have chakra armaments (Kaguya's fists could have been that version)

Bonded (chakra fruit powerup) gives the recipient a Rinnegan (should have been red but manga retconned Momoshiki, which was awfully needed)

As far as we are concerned, this is true on whether the recipient is a Yin or Yang as Kaguya may have been a Yang affinity celestial (due to lack of base rinnegan)

I will chalk up the fact that the reason why Tenseigan did not ever became a thing was due to the fact that Kishimoto did not want to spoil or hint anything in The Last movie.


Perhaps if Momoshiki were to be the one turned into the emergency chakra fruit, Kinshiki would have awakened a 3rd eye, a Tenseigan? I doubt it would upgrade his Byakugan into a Tenseigan because of Hamura's circumstance of being a less potent Otsutsuki.
 
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The theme of duality remains strong in Boruto as well, as we see when Sasuke finds the Otutsuki Shrine that contains the new Juubi. From that shrine we can conclude that all Otsutsuki groups travel in groups excluding Urashiki as far as we know. We know that Kaguya had a partner, we also know about Kinshiki and Momoshiki. The theme of duality exists within their designs in some regard as well.

The shrines themselves contains two "disks" or circles, one black and one white (though its inconsistent in the manga, but that could be a drawing mistake). Then we have their designs in general. Yang is often a symbol of masculinity and strength, while Yin is often a symbol for femininity and elegance. Momoshiki has an extremely feminine look to him, but isn't remotely elegant. Kinshiki is masculine in form, but holds a far more elegant and refined fighting style and behavior than Momoshiki.

Kaguya was as far as we know, feminine, but not exactly elegant in her actions or fighting style. Both Momoshiki and Kaguya preferred to use big, explosive forceful attacks where as Kinshiki had a more refined approach to combat, focusing on weapons and precision. This is also a parallel to Sasuke and Naruto's own fighting style where Naruto favors explosive attacks where as Sasuke prefers extremely precise attacks.

If Jigen is the lost partner of Kaguya or takes after whomever that person was then it also fits with her. Judging from what we seen regarding how Jigen plans, moves, talks and fights, he favors a swift and precise strike over a massive destructive and flashy one. Its more than likely that he could throw bombs at Konoha if he wanted, but he opted to just walk in and attack the problem with precision like a scalpel.

Another parallel towards the duality theme would be how Momoshiki was extremely rude to people, where as Kinshiki was polite and respectful towards others. Kaguya, as far as we know only cared for herself and her direct children, no one else. This is a trait she shares with Momoshiki while Jigen (as we saw when he apologized for walking into Naruto's house with shoes on) is also extremely polite and respectful towards other people.
 
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wanderingcactus

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Perhaps Hashirama's sage mode was based on byakugo. His wife learned the jutsu I can't imagine him not being able to.

Sage mode is a Senju technique. Uzumaki has the seals...

While it is possible for them to be able to teach these techs to others, because of the whole Yang being able to connect and share, Hashirama's Sage mode is different from byakugou.


Byakugou is based on storing chakra in the seal. Much like a pocket chakra dimension. A person can deposit chakra into it over time. Sage Mode is taking in the surrounding chakra and using it as their own.

That means it is not their chakra that is being used, it is other organisms (Much like Naruto using Kurama's chakra as his own)..

So no, I don't think Sage Mode is based off of that. Considering Sage Mode is a So6P technique but just the Yang side of it.
We can see this with Momoshiki and Jigan (although they are retcon)
 
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How exactly is it not?

Madara even said that the byakugou pales in comparison to Hashirama's sage mode.

From what I can remember (and what I quickly looked up) Madara didn't downplay or insult the Byakugou Seal, he applauded it. He insulted the fact that Tsunade previously had to wave signs to recover where as Hashirama did not. Though when she activates the seal he comments not only how strong it is, but how it is exactly like what Hashirama was using.

Madara Uchiha said:
Regeneration without weaving signs... I see, so that's the true nature of your jutsu that is rule four... It's just like Hashirama's ability... ~ Chapter 578
 
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We are both right
No, at this point you are wrong. For one, Madara (in the scan you provided) never single out Tsunade by herself when he is talking about overall strength. He is referring to all the Kage that follow Hashirama's "Will of Fire" stating that Hashirama should've taught his followers how to resurrect him as he had done himself as a way to counter their own weakness. The only part where he talks specifically about Tsunade is when he states;

Madara Uchiha said:
You... Certainly aren't weak, woman. But if you step in and die here, then all the others die because of you. Since you'll not be able to heal them.
Not to mention that this scene takes place before Madara even sees what the seal is capable of. He hasn't seen that she can heal herself yet, he even admits (a few pages before) that he has no idea what Tsunade meant with "Rule Four" and flat out admits that he has never heard of the 100 Healings Seal before in his life.
 

wanderingcactus

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Madara (in the scan you provided) never single out Tsunade by herself when he is talking about overall strength. He is referring to all the Kage that follow Hashirama's "Will of Fire" stating that Hashirama should've taught his followers how to resurrect him as he had done himself as a way to counter their own weakness.
That's a nitpick if I ever saw one.
Because even when you read ahead, he was never impressed with Tsunade. In this scan, yes. But later on, he did single her out.

As far as the will of fire argument is concerned, he belittles people who believe them. So what you say in the end does not apply and is overreaching.

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That's why he suggested that instead of Hashirama teaching them about the will of fire, it was best to teach them how to resurrect him because the future generation, the Kages, are so weak compared to Hashirama.


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Just because Madara found her technique amusing does not mean that Madara found Byakugou to be effective against fighting him.



The entire fight, he keeps wishing to fight Hashirama instead of Tsunade and while not a direct putdown, it is the message that he is saying. This proves the point that I was making: Byakugou pales in comparison to Hashirama's Sage Mode.

The only thing GOOD he noted was that it was similar based on no hand sign regeneration and a boost in strength. He does not acknowledge her that she can keep up. In fact, he keeps telling them the opposite.


Yes, you are right about some of it. The fact that he praised the Byakugou, but he never once acknowledge that it was on par nor enough to give him a good fight.
 
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That's a nitpick if I ever saw one.
Because even when you read ahead, he was never impressed with Tsunade. In this scan, yes. But later on, he did single her out.
This wasn't a discussing about whenever or not he was impressed by Tsunade's overall ability, but whenever or not he was impressed by her ability to heal akin to her grandfather which Madara admits, she is. So in terms of healing ability, the Byakugou Seal is equal to Hashirama's healing abilities as stated by Madara.

As far as the will of fire argument is concerned, he belittles people who believe them. So what you say in the end does not apply and is overreaching.
It does apply. Madara is a man who insists that "will is not power" and that "power is everything". While Hashirama was the opposite, in the sense that only by having the will to change can change come. Forcing change through power will never actually be change. To this end (in the scan you provided) he belittles all who follow this ideal. Because in his eye, will without power is worthless and power is absolute. Therefore he outright says that Hashirama should've taught his followers how to resurrect him as without Hashirama's power, his will is worthless.

He insults the Gokage for taking after Hashirama's will, but not his power. He never singles out Tsunade in this regard and refers to all who are weak and follow Hashirama's "Will of Fire" ideal.

Just because Madara found her technique amusing does not mean that Madara found Byakugou to be effective against fighting him.
Again, not the point of any of my posts regarding the Byakgou Seal. I just pointed out that he Byakgou Seal possesses healing abilities akin to that of Hashirama's Sage Mode healing. Hence your comment about it being a "water downed Sage Mode" is in-accurate as the main purpose of the seal isn't to boost one's power, but to increase one's healing abilities far past what is natural. Saying its a "watered down Sage Mode" is like calling Chidori a "watered down Kirin" just because Kirin has more destructive power when the concept of Chidori was about speed and precision and not destructive power.

The entire fight, he keeps wishing to fight Hashirama instead of Tsunade and while not a direct putdown, it is the message that he is saying. This proves the point that I was making: Byakugou pales in comparison to Hashirama's Sage Mode.
What? No? Hashirama wasn't a problem because he could heal or had the will to fight, Hashirama was an issue because he had power to back that will up with. What Madara is calling the Gokage out for is the lack of overall power when compared to a single man and himself. He isn't talking about the Byakugou Seal or Tsunade specifically in any other regard than when he refers to her as a "weak Senju" at the start of the encounter. Arriving at the conclusion that "Byakugou is a pale comparison to Hashirama's Sage Mode" from Madara saying "The current generation is weak" is not only taking it out of context and ignoring what he means by it, but its like saying that Madara is calling Particle Release worse than Hashirama's healing factor in terms of battle power.

The only thing GOOD he noted was that it was similar based on no hand sign regeneration and a boost in strength. He does not acknowledge her that she can keep up. In fact, he keeps telling them the opposite.
He outright states that the healing offered by the Byakugou Seal is exactly the same as Hashirama's ability. He never compliments it on the Strength Benefits, but rather its healing benefits. He even acknowledges that he was mistaken in calling her weak earlier. He still insists that all the Kage are weaker than him, but that he did underplay their abilities eariler. This is also a trait of Madara's character as he is unable to understand why they suddenly became stronger, which is the "Will of Fire" concept he so happily disregards.

Yes, you are right about some of it. The fact that he praised the Byakugou, but he never once acknowledge that it was on par nor enough to give him a good fight.
He does acknowledge that the healing factor the Byakugou Seal is on par with Sage Mode Hashirama's, commenting on how the two abilities are "just like" each other. From the get-go this was never about battle prowess, this was about whenever or not the Byakugou Seal holds the same healing powers as Hashirama's Sage Mode or not as you insisted on it being a "watered down" version of it, meaning it would need to be weaker than his Sage Mode when activated, which Madara specifically states that it is not.
 

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Sage mode is a Senju technique. Uzumaki has the seals...

While it is possible for them to be able to teach these techs to others, because of the whole Yang being able to connect and share, Hashirama's Sage mode is different from byakugou.


Byakugou is based on storing chakra in the seal. Much like a pocket chakra dimension. A person can deposit chakra into it over time. Sage Mode is taking in the surrounding chakra and using it as their own.

That means it is not their chakra that is being used, it is other organisms (Much like Naruto using Kurama's chakra as his own)..

So no, I don't think Sage Mode is based off of that. Considering Sage Mode is a So6P technique but just the Yang side of it.
We can see this with Momoshiki and Jigan (although they are retcon)
Oh I get it. Its called senjutsu because the senju invented it. That makes perfect sense... But when Hashirama activates his sage mode he gets a seal on his forehead. Byakugo users also get a seal on their forehead.

I dont understand why you say sage mode is the yang side of a so6p technique.
 

wanderingcactus

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Oh I get it. Its called senjutsu because the senju invented it. That makes perfect sense... But when Hashirama activates his sage mode he gets a seal on his forehead. Byakugo users also get a seal on their forehead.

I dont understand why you say sage mode is the yang side of a so6p technique.

Well the seal is just a Yin seal. It isn't really reserved for Sage Mode or Byakugan. It is just something that they "press" in this case, release. Much like an ON button for your car, Pc, etc.

Remember, Yin is all about "spiritual energy" so in order to activate any techs, they activate that. Works much like the hand signs but this is the requirement to use those. Yang is "physical energy" and it based on anything in reality. Anything interactable and existing.


As for the whole Yin and Yang, Kishimoto has always used this symbolism when it comes to celestial beings. In this case, the Otsutsuki Clan.



We are also given the explanation that the Sharingan is not really the chakra within the eyes. It is the chakra that gets activated in the brain. While Yin is activated by the mind, Yang is by the body. So the symbol is placed on the heart.

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It functions much like the Power of Youth Gates. It is just that the eyes reflect what happens inside the head. It can also store that special chakra and that is why it can be passed on. Much like Hashirama's cells, it contains the special chakra that can boost ones abilties. So if can be used by other people and even greater abilities are obtained if used by an immediate family member (probably due to compatibility). IDK about the Byakugan, I suppose it is the same ordeal due to The Last movie having eyes taken away to make a Tenseigan weapon.



Yin = spiritual affinity. So imagination, dreams, etc. These all happens in our minds.
Hagoromo has the Yin affinity due to his eyes (IDK why he has the Yang seal and the same can be said with Hamura.. probably due to the whole Yang within Yin in Yin-Yang).


Yang = physical affinity. So reality, and anything tangible. This are interacted with our body.
Hamura has the Yang affinity because he didn't have Tenseigan when he was born. He was basically Asura.
Again, I speculate that the reason why he has the Yin seal is because of the whole Yin within Yang in the Yin-Yang.


So how is it that Hashirama is a Yin but with Yang affinity? Easy, this comes again with the whole Yin-Yang principle of the opposite existing within one another. (Yin in Yang and Yang in Yin) This is why his Sage mode starts at his forehead and the same with Tsunade's.

J-man, Orochimaru/Kabuto, and Naruto/Minato do not. We can see it around their eyes (which is still somewhat a Yin thing because of sharingan, byakugan, rinnegan and tenseigan). The ones with the curse mark has them start in where the curse mark is injected (still acts as a Yin seal)


Hagoromo (Yin) > Uchiha (Yin-Yin) Senju (Yin-Yang)
Hamura (Yang) > Hyuga (Yang-Yin) Uzumaki (Yang-Yang)

I will always say that the Uzumaki is on Hamura's lineage because of the chakra armaments. Toneri has this ability as well. Kinshiki also used chakra armaments and he is a Yang. Just makes sense. "Senjus and Uzumakis" are distant cousins makes sense here too.

Throughout the manga we always see this correlation of Yin and Yang:

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Saying its a "watered down Sage Mode" is like calling Chidori a "watered down Kirin" just because Kirin has more destructive power when the concept of Chidori was about speed and precision and not destructive power.

Again.. nitpicking. Chidori was based off of Rasengan and because Kakashi could not use it, he came up with Chidori (which is a watered down Rasengan). Watered down in a way that he cannot achieve the power required so he just put all the destructive power into one point where as Rasengan as raw power and pointed in all direction.

The premise of this discussion is whether or not Byakugou is a watered down Sage Mode. Which it is. Tsunade cannot use Sage Mode and this was her compensation. Much like Kakashi was unable to use Rasengan, Chidori was his answer. Kirin is NOT in anyway similar to Chidori in terms of the purpose. Lightning affinity is the only thing that makes them similar. Kirin is also a Sage tech as it uses surrounding energy where as Rasengan and Chidori is using ones own.

Another thing: Byakugou tech is just boosting Creation Rebirth. This was her way to stimulate Hashirama's Sage Mode for healing without signs.

Again, Byakugou is only the boost. Creation Rebirth is the one that does the healing

LET ME REITERATE:

SAGE MODE IS NOT based off of Byakugou. Byakugou is based off of Sage Mode and it is only at best on scale with its healing abilities.

Byakugou's healing ability really is just Creation Rebirth just boosted by the seal.

This is why it is a watered down Sage Mode as SM is so much more than just healing without signs.


I don't understand why people say SAGE MODE is based off of it when Tsunade literally came up with it. This was long AFTER Hashirama died. So how is SM based off of the Byakugou?

How is Byakugou, whose purpose is to store massive chakra for a limited time single purpose use, equal to Sage Mode?
 
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Well Kishimoto certainly had a duality theme going on. Like a Yin and Yang and quite possibly the reason why he dropped Urashiki (3rd baddie) from the movie.

This Yin and Yang theme has been throughout the series but you may argue UP TO A POINT that was only for Kaguya's descendants. Reason being is that when we finally got Momoshiki and Kinshiki appear, there is still the duality theme of Mind (YIN = doujutsu) and Body (YANG = chakra/lifeforce).

Being able to absorb chakra is probably a latent talent of all celestials much like having byakugan because we see Toneri use this ability as well and he has Yang affinity.

Though a merely speculation, it points heavily that Tenseigan IS NOT something for impure Otsutsuki. The reason being is that if the Tenseigan exists in a watered down version (Hamura) then how did it become more powerful than its potent counterpart, the pure-blooded celestials?

Unless you mean that the Tenseigan is only achievable AFTER a chakra fruit has been eaten, then, it would seem to be the most believable explanation. Arguably, eating a chakra fruit SHOULD upgrade the Byakugan as well. However, we have never seen a Yang eat a chakra fruit before (unless Kaguya is one as she lacks Rinnegan). If that were the case, Tenseigan should be present and the only reason why it should not is merely due to Kishimoto not spoiling but in terms of lore, perhaps she was unaware. Although, she should have been aware by the time she revived as she had fought Hamura before.

What we know:
Base celestial beings function in partners. One with Yin and one with Yang. Both have byakugans. Yin has a built in Rinnegan (meaning that they don't need the chakra fruit) and Yang have chakra armaments (Kaguya's fists could have been that version)

Bonded (chakra fruit powerup) gives the recipient a Rinnegan (should have been red but manga retconned Momoshiki, which was awfully needed)

As far as we are concerned, this is true on whether the recipient is a Yin or Yang as Kaguya may have been a Yang affinity celestial (due to lack of base rinnegan)

I will chalk up the fact that the reason why Tenseigan did not ever became a thing was due to the fact that Kishimoto did not want to spoil or hint anything in The Last movie.


Perhaps if Momoshiki were to be the one turned into the emergency chakra fruit, Kinshiki would have awakened a 3rd eye, a Tenseigan? I doubt it would upgrade his Byakugan into a Tenseigan because of Hamura's circumstance of being a less potent Otsutsuki.
Yeah, I meant that Pure Otsutuski can never attain the Tenseigan after eating the Chakra fruit, which is why Kaguya, Momo, Kin, etc. never had it. Only their human-hybrid descendants can, which is why Hamura, Toneri had it, and why Hagoromo also ended up with a god-tier doujutsu.

Momoshiki got a third Rinnegan after absorbing Kinshiki for a reason. It’s also the same reason why Kinshiki’s horn-crown was never removed in the movie. Also, Juubi Madara was hiding Kaguya’s Sharingan under his crown too.

And finally, Momoshiki himself wasn’t able to obtain Boruto’s “new” doujutsu, so he made Boruto a vessel and will try to take over his body in order to utilize the latter’s eye power.
 
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I think Hagoromo had the yang seal because he embodied both. Although he had a Sharingan he was also a sage and jinchuriki two abilities that are considered high on the yang scale. Since Kaguya was basically the ten tails her sons may have inherited the yin and yang. She had plenty for everyone.
 

Animegoin

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I think Hagoromo had the yang seal because he embodied both. Although he had a Sharingan he was also a sage and jinchuriki two abilities that are considered high on the yang scale. Since Kaguya was basically the ten tails her sons may have inherited the yin and yang. She had plenty for everyone.

Hagoromo had a Rinnegan for practically most of his life.
 
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