[Discussion] Ivankov vs Zoro

[Love Cook]

Ivankov got mid diffed, if not low diffed by Magellan. Zoro takes this.

I don't think it's fair to compare anyone to Magellan pre-ts when haki wasn't a big deal yet.

Their wasn't an option of fight or flight against him, you could only run because all direct hits would leave you poisoned. Ivankov held off pretty much the longest anyone in ID would've been capable off thanks to his make up and other tricks.

if you look at other fights like Kuma, Sanji and Akainu it's obvious that ivankov was in different league pre-skip. The sh's couldn't hold a candle to him then.

I think based on that and possible growth he would still be pretty strong and probably stronger than Zoro still.

If Sabo gets credits to be 'admiral level' for being second in command of the RA, then I wonder why Kuma or Ivankov never got those. Or does that logic only work in one direction ? (read careful: I'm not saying that Sabo should be called Admiral level based on this, I just think it's weird that it happens)

 

[shon93]

Really retarded thread Iva wins mid diff. People act like only the SH got stronger Post Timeskip..Ivankov had no problem dismantling Pretimeskip Sanji in a trollish fashion....

 

[Red Swag]

you think ivankov can do that to pica?

zoro low - mid diff

 

[A v i]

1. Zoro would lose to megellan, and Ivankov was able to hold him off. It was never shown what megallan did to win, and from what was seen Ivankov was trolling him the entire time.

From what we have seen from them.Magellan can neither dodge nor survive this. [

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Same goes for Iva.

OT: Zoro wins this.

 

[Bogard]

2. Ivankov defeated Kuma so I dont understand your point:

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Look at Kuma's face again after he is kicked on the very same page you present. Not even a scratch on him and it remained the same during the entire encounter. That shows Ivankov couldn't even harm him(something preskip Zoro could do) and we talk about a mindless Kuma here

And why are you talking about defeating preskip Sanji?
1- Zoro is stronger than Sanji
2- Postskip Sanji >> Preskip Sanji

 

[A v i]

Look at Kuma's face again after he is kicked on the very same page you present. Not even a scratch on him and it remained the same during the entire encounter. That shows Ivankov couldn't even harm him(something preskip Zoro could do) and we talk about a mindless Kuma here

I agree with the rest of your argument but I don't get from where this mindless kuma is weaker than normal kuma argument came from. Of course,common sense says that brains > Brain less but Kuma was modified by Vegapunk of all people so I doubt Vegapunk would modify him just to make him weaker than what he is actually capable of.

If anything mindless Kuma should be > Normal Kuma.

 

[Love Cook]

Look at Kuma's face again after he is kicked on the very same page you present. Not even a scratch on him and it remained the same during the entire encounter. That shows Ivankov couldn't even harm him(something preskip Zoro could do) and we talk about a mindless Kuma here

And why are you talking about defeating preskip Sanji?
1- Zoro is stronger than Sanji
2- Postskip Sanji >> Preskip Sanji

Two things wrong here.

1) Zoro wasn't able to damage Kuma, aside from a little dent
2) You still don't know if post skip Sanji can beat Ivankov. So that tells you nothing.

 

[Bogard]

I agree with the rest of your argument but I don't get from where this mindless kuma is weaker than normal kuma argument came from. Of course,common sense says that brains > Brain less but Kuma was modified by Vegapunk of all people so I doubt Vegapunk would modify him just to make him weaker than what he is actually capable of.

If anything mindless Kuma should be > Normal Kuma.

Kuma is PX-0, in otherwise his programm is comparable to them and look at the way the PX were presented. They were tagged by the likes of Preskip Franky, Nami and co who aren't speedsters. Compare that to the way brain Kuma used his powers and you can easily see the difference. He was outpacing gear2 Luffy easily. The difference is HUGE

We don't know the exact detail around Kuma's operation made by Vegapunk and even why he did it, so i won't go there. Maybe it was even a long time project. Doflamingo was mentioning the fact he was having gradual modifications, so for all we know the marineford Kuma was still incomplete

Two things wrong here.

1) Zoro wasn't able to damage Kuma, aside from a little dent
2) You still don't know if post skip Sanji can beat Ivankov. So that tells you nothing.

Indeed but it's still better than what Ivankov accomplished especially when he actually did it with his second strongest move only(his strongest being Asura)
I know as well but it was just to say that using preskip Sanji as a reference prove nothing in a comparison with postskip Zoro. Besides, wasn't Sanji supposed to defeat the 99 Okamas including him?

 

[U mAd]

i fu*king cant believe that people are saying zoro.ivankove low diffs

 

[xanonymosx]

zoro high
harmons can`t reattach the body after being cut in half not as easy as monet but still daishinkan solo`s

 

[U mAd]

zoro high
harmons can`t reattach the body after being cut in half not as easy as monet but still daishinkan solo`s

let me explain how hormones are not to be underestimated.
ivankovs feats and ability's
-ivankov just needs one touch to insert hormones into zoro's body.
-he fight ar both close and long range,
-fought equally against kuma
-has haki
-as a woman ivankov has great hand to hand combat ability

hormone ability's
He can remodel a human from the inside, which allows them to change all physical aspects, including: ***, growth, skin pigment, and many other things.

basically he turn zoro into a woman,turn his skin weak,shrnik him,make him slow,make him horn in short he can affaect any of zoro's physical and mental ability with just one touch

 

[jiraiya lives]

Ivankov held Akainu off? Lol are we reading the same series? Crocodile's feat of Slicing Akainu in half was more impressive than anything Ivankov did to Akainu and Zoro>>>>Crocodile (at the times )

TBH Idk who would win this but it won't be any neg diffing on either side U_U

 

[Punk Hazard]

Kuma is PX-0, in otherwise his programm is comparable to them and look at the way the PX were presented. They were tagged by the likes of Preskip Franky, Nami and co who aren't speedsters. Compare that to the way brain Kuma used his powers and you can easily see the difference. He was outpacing gear2 Luffy easily. The difference is HUGE

We don't know the exact detail around Kuma's operation made by Vegapunk and even why he did it, so i won't go there. Maybe it was even a long time project. Doflamingo was mentioning the fact he was having gradual modifications, so for all we know the marineford Kuma was still incomplete

Indeed but it's still better than what Ivankov accomplished especially when he actually did it with his second strongest move only(his strongest being Asura)
I know as well but it was just to say that using preskip Sanji as a reference prove nothing in a comparison with postskip Zoro. Besides, wasn't Sanji supposed to defeat the 99 Okamas including him?

Iva wasn't one of the 99 Okamas.

 

[xanonymosx]

let me explain how hormones are not to be 1\underestimated.
ivankovs feats and ability's
-2\ivankov just needs one touch to insert hormones into zoro's body.
-he fight ar both close and long range,
-3\fought equally against kuma
-3\has haki
-as a woman ivankov has great hand to hand combat ability

hormone ability's
He can remodel a human from the inside, which allows them to change all physical aspects, including: ***, growth, skin pigment, and many other things.

basically he turn zoro into a woman,turn his skin weak,shrnik him,make him slow,make him horn in short he can affaect any of zoro's physical and mental ability with just one touch

1\i am not underestmating harmons buddy it can heal and increase the power and all that but my point is it cant reattach if he got cut so the healing thing dsnt have much of a thing here cause zoro is able of cutting him let`s take luffy`s red hawk it will damage him hard and make him unable to fight (assumption) he can inject his body with harmons to recover but if zoro cut him completly (somthing he can do ) harmons cant help cause he dies instantly and no harmon can reattach him

2\zoro is fighting with his sowrd and before time skip he has the best reaction speed among the crew and now he has CoO so the possibility of getting touch is low

3\ equally ? i dont recall that

4\ he did`nt show any haki (i am not saying he dsnt have haki but since he didnt show it cant be counted )

 

[Punk Hazard]

1\i am not underestmating harmons buddy it can heal and increase the power and all that but my point is it cant reattach if he got cut so the healing thing dsnt have much of a thing here cause zoro is able of cutting him let`s take luffy`s red hawk it will damage him hard and make him unable to fight (assumption) he can inject his body with harmons to recover but if zoro cut him completly (somthing he can do ) harmons cant help cause he dies instantly and no harmon can reattach him

2\zoro is fighting with his sowrd and before time skip he has the best reaction speed among the crew and now he has CoO so the possibility of getting touch is low

3\ equally ? i dont recall that

4\ he did`nt show any haki (i am not saying he dsnt have haki but since he didnt show it cant be counted )

Why are people saying Zoro will cut him in half? We all know even if Zoro gets a slice in on him, it won't cut him completely in half, that shit never happens in One Piece. The only person Zoro has cut in half completely is Monet, and that's because she's a Logia. If people like Daz Bones or Kaku can't be cleaved in half completely, a mid top tier like Ivankov ain't suffering that faith either.

 

[xanonymosx]

Why are people saying Zoro will cut him in half? We all know even if Zoro gets a slice in on him, it won't cut him completely in half, that shit never happens in One Piece. The only person Zoro has cut in half completely is Monet, and that's because she's a Logia. If people like Daz Bones or Kaku can't be cleaved in half completely, a mid top tier like Ivankov ain't suffering that faith either.

cause it`s onepiece and no one dies cause oda keeps bloody things at it`s very minimum
zoro`s kaujo o tatsumaki was able of cutting steel shield but not a single fodder got his limb cut and oda made zoro cut mont just because it`s logia and he didnt use haki so there is no blood if one piece was +17 manga i can guarantee you zoro`s alias was going to be pirate butcher rather than pirate hunter and this no limb get cut rule dsnt apply to this vs theards does it ?

 

[Love Cook]

i can guarantee you zoro`s alias was going to be pirate butcher rather than pirate hunter and this no limb get cut rule dsnt apply to this vs theards does it ?

No you obviously can't, what is the point in discussing if you add in feats that would never happen in One Piece ? Cutting off limbs would put Ivankov at a disadvantage. So that's the difference in those scenarios. Besides Ivankov's nails can cut through rocks and all kinds of material just as easy. So if this would work for Zoro then it also should work for Ivankov.

You can't just strip Ivankov of his limbs because that is how the fight plays out in your mind, that would never happen. Zoro has three swords but Ivankov has 10 nails, zo think about who would lose a limb first.

 

[Punk Hazard]

cause it`s onepiece and no one dies cause oda keeps bloody things at it`s very minimum
zoro`s kaujo o tatsumaki was able of cutting steel shield but not a single fodder got his limb cut and oda made zoro cut mont just because it`s logia and he didnt use haki so there is no blood if one piece was +17 manga i can guarantee you zoro`s alias was going to be pirate butcher rather than pirate hunter and this no limb get cut rule dsnt apply to this vs theards does it ?

Yes it does. It doesn't matter what "would" or "could" happen if the One Piece manga was this and that, what matters is what it is. All that means is that in the One Piece world, there are fighters with durability greater than that of steel. It may be an imaginary match-ups, but the rules and portrayal of the series still apply, meaning Zoro isn't cleaving any decent fighter in half.

 

[xanonymosx]

No you obviously can't, what is the point in discussing if you add in feats that would never happen in One Piece ? Cutting off limbs would put Ivankov at a disadvantage. So that's the difference in those scenarios. Besides Ivankov's nails can cut through rocks and all kinds of material just as easy. So if this would work for Zoro then it also should work for Ivankov.

You can't just strip Ivankov of his limbs because that is how the fight plays out in your mind, that would never happen. Zoro has three swords but Ivankov has 10 nails, zo think about who would lose a limb first.

take a deep breath and reread it i didnt i didnt say zoro will cut ivankov limbs for sure i said this not one piece so no limb get cut dsnt apply here (unless someone put it as a restriction ) i was talking about zoro`s title thing and you are right it can go either ways zoro can cut iva and iva can do the same it depend`s on who has the better feats to cut and dodge the other

 

[xanonymosx]

Yes it does. It doesn't matter what "would" or "could" happen if the One Piece manga was this and that, what matters is what it is. All that means is that in the One Piece world, there are fighters with durability greater than that of steel. It may be an imaginary match-ups, but the rules and portrayal of the series still apply, meaning Zoro isn't cleaving any decent fighter in half.

let me ask you a question : do think zoro is able of cutting ivankov or not ?
if no then you dont need to answer the other one
one piece thing is not a feat it`s more like a restriction so if someone wrote blood lusted does`nt that means limps torn is accepted ?