Itachi's Strength

[Nidaimerocks]

Dude how would you even kno how second's S/T techs can just avoid everything like amaterasu, his susano and his general jutsus when we have not even seen a bit of it in action and what is worse is that you think that he would just easily slice his head off with a kunai, you are clearly underestimating itachi no top rank ninja ever goes down that easily and I do from hype believe that the 2nd would most likely wiin due to alll his experience in battles against the uchihas but it can't be clear cut as you stated. Itachi barely even uses his regular ninjutsu so it is not even that big of a deal, and you also forget that his space time most likely be more basic than the fourth meaning that it is not exactly ftg and most likely not as effective(however still useful). And itachi for at least a while would have a perfect defense and i don't think the 2nd can just win by slicing his throat, it would be way more complicated and drawn out battle becos they are high class ninjas and itachi with tsukiyomi has a good chance to work but in the end the result won't be that clear cut but my bet is the 2nd but it will definitely not be as eassy as you put it and in the other responses were you responded it seems like you are underestimating Itachi's powers to a certain extent.

1. Space-time jutsu, regardless of how they work, allow one to move faster than jutsu that travel in time. This is true for the narutoverse, for Marvel comics or any other manga. amaterasu and susano'o travel in time, therefore logically, nidaime will avoid them. That is simple logic
2. I see no reason to believe that nidaime's space-time jutsu is more basic than Minato's. I am happy to listen to why you think that
3. A perfect defense protects you when the attacker can't bypass it. If nidaime moves outside of time and Itachi has no knowledge, he won't know to use susano'o. Hence the reason I said in a NO KNOWLEDGE scenario, his head could be cut off

I don't remember saying this fight would be easy. I said without knowledge, nidaime is as likely to lose to tsukuyomi as Itachi is to get his head cut off. That's all

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

There are so many insane people on this thread who know almost nothing about genjutsu or Itachi or even Naruto as a whole.

Someone said Jiraiya was a master at countering genjutsu. FALSE, he himself said he was terrible at genjutsu.

Tsukuyomi only takes one second real time, not enough time for anyone to break out of it even if they could. Itachi said that only a blood relative of his with the sharingan could break out of it. He is a genjutsu master so don't you think he knows ways to counter genjutsu? ANSWER - yes he obviously does, anyone who thinks otherwise fights the manga and what is written there.

Hashirama and Madara - We know literally nothing about his fight with Madara or how strong he and Madara were back then. Who cares if Madara had EMS? Itachi was likely more skilled than him in using it because as Itachi has showcased in literally every battle he is extremely talented. Kakashi said that legends of the past are always overstated and I am inclined to believe him. Hashirama didn't fight the fox he suppressed it and it was sealed into his wife, there is a difference. Would you say that Yamato fights the fox? That is what Hashirama does as mokuton is how they are similar.

Since we know nothing about Hashirama and I don't see any counters to Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu then I'm going to believe that Itachi beats him out.



Now on to Itachi. There are haters on this site who hate just to hate, they hate all of the overpowered characters. Itachi and Minato being the favorites to hate on for that group.

Now let's take a look at Itachi's abilities. - Can copy jutsu, track and predict movements, see chakra, has both fire and water affinities, is one of the fastest characters in the entire manga (fast enough to get behind Bee before he could move, and fast enough to dodge Naruto's attacks in Rikudo Mode), incredibly smart, has three OP mangekyo sharingan abilities: Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susanoo each of which is devastating and easily one of the highest caliber jutsu of their types. And he is a normal genjutsu master, being able to counter a genjutsu specialist (kurenai) and put her under a genjutsu.

Now I will admit that there are a few people who can probably beat him but that is because of one of his only faults, he has pretty average chakra levels, and eventually he would go blind. And of those few people that would probably beat him, he is always in the running, you can never discount Itachi from winning a fight.

People that have a chance to beat Itachi:
Minato
Nagato
Madara (current)
Maybe Bee, unlikely but because he can break out of most of his genjutsu then that could turn the tide.
Naruto (only if the fox ever helps him, otherwise Naruto is incredibly weak in genjutsu)
Sasuke (current, only Itachi's eyes could help him beat him, which he wouldn't have)

What most people fail to realize is that only one person in the entire Naruto universe has a counter to Tsukuyomi (Bee has the hachibi and Samehada) and that even that might not be enough as Tsukuyomi only takes one second real time. If genjutsu is used only Bee, or if the fox starts to help him Naruto, can break out of it.

 

[kadowade]

There are so many insane people on this thread who know almost nothing about genjutsu or Itachi or even Naruto as a whole.

Someone said Jiraiya was a master at countering genjutsu. FALSE, he himself said he was terrible at genjutsu.

Tsukuyomi only takes one second real time, not enough time for anyone to break out of it even if they could. Itachi said that only a blood relative of his with the sharingan could break out of it. He is a genjutsu master so don't you think he knows ways to counter genjutsu? ANSWER - yes he obviously does, anyone who thinks otherwise fights the manga and what is written there.

Hashirama and Madara - We know literally nothing about his fight with Madara or how strong he and Madara were back then. Who cares if Madara had EMS? Itachi was likely more skilled than him in using it because as Itachi has showcased in literally every battle he is extremely talented. Kakashi said that legends of the past are always overstated and I am inclined to believe him. Hashirama didn't fight the fox he suppressed it and it was sealed into his wife, there is a difference. Would you say that Yamato fights the fox? That is what Hashirama does as mokuton is how they are similar.

Since we know nothing about Hashirama and I don't see any counters to Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu then I'm going to believe that Itachi beats him out.



Now on to Itachi. There are haters on this site who hate just to hate, they hate all of the overpowered characters. Itachi and Minato being the favorites to hate on for that group.

Now let's take a look at Itachi's abilities. - Can copy jutsu, track and predict movements, see chakra, has both fire and water affinities, is one of the fastest characters in the entire manga (fast enough to get behind Bee before he could move, and fast enough to dodge Naruto's attacks in Rikudo Mode), incredibly smart, has three OP mangekyo sharingan abilities: Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susanoo each of which is devastating and easily one of the highest caliber jutsu of their types. And he is a normal genjutsu master, being able to counter a genjutsu specialist (kurenai) and put her under a genjutsu.

Now I will admit that there are a few people who can probably beat him but that is because of one of his only faults, he has pretty average chakra levels, and eventually he would go blind. And of those few people that would probably beat him, he is always in the running, you can never discount Itachi from winning a fight.

People that have a chance to beat Itachi:
Minato
Nagato
Madara (current)
Maybe Bee, unlikely but because he can break out of most of his genjutsu then that could turn the tide.
Naruto (only if the fox ever helps him, otherwise Naruto is incredibly weak in genjutsu)
Sasuke (current, only Itachi's eyes could help him beat him, which he wouldn't have)

What most people fail to realize is that only one person in the entire Naruto universe has a counter to Tsukuyomi (Bee has the hachibi and Samehada) and that even that might not be enough as Tsukuyomi only takes one second real time. If genjutsu is used only Bee, or if the fox starts to help him Naruto, can break out of it.

THANK YOU i couldnt have said it better

 

[Kinimaster]

As expected Kishimoto can do whatever he wants but in theory not even jinchūrikis could escape from Tsukuyomi.Genjutsu is broken in 3 ways, first is "genjutsu cancel" (幻術解 genjutsu kai?) a disruption of the victim's chakra flow either by themselves or their allies. Pain that is not a result of the genjutsu, such as stabbing oneself, is a second method of countering genjutsu. Finally, if the caster of the genjutsu loses focus for whatever reason, the jutsu will end and the victim is freed.[17]Tsukuyomi (月読?), a genjutsu that traps the opponent in a realm controlled by the user, during where days of subjective time can pass instantly, and as such allows no time for the target to break free of the jutsu

In bold is how the tailed beasts disrupts chakra inside de genjutsu(they act like another person), and in the other sentence in bold is how it shouldnt happen in Tsukuyomi.

 

[YIN YANG]

There are so many insane people on this thread who know almost nothing about genjutsu or Itachi or even Naruto as a whole.

Someone said Jiraiya was a master at countering genjutsu. FALSE, he himself said he was terrible at genjutsu.

Tsukuyomi only takes one second real time, not enough time for anyone to break out of it even if they could. Itachi said that only a blood relative of his with the sharingan could break out of it. He is a genjutsu master so don't you think he knows ways to counter genjutsu? ANSWER - yes he obviously does, anyone who thinks otherwise fights the manga and what is written there.

Hashirama and Madara - We know literally nothing about his fight with Madara or how strong he and Madara were back then. Who cares if Madara had EMS? Itachi was likely more skilled than him in using it because as Itachi has showcased in literally every battle he is extremely talented. Kakashi said that legends of the past are always overstated and I am inclined to believe him. Hashirama didn't fight the fox he suppressed it and it was sealed into his wife, there is a difference. Would you say that Yamato fights the fox? That is what Hashirama does as mokuton is how they are similar.

Since we know nothing about Hashirama and I don't see any counters to Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu then I'm going to believe that Itachi beats him out.



Now on to Itachi. There are haters on this site who hate just to hate, they hate all of the overpowered characters. Itachi and Minato being the favorites to hate on for that group.

Now let's take a look at Itachi's abilities. - Can copy jutsu, track and predict movements, see chakra, has both fire and water affinities, is one of the fastest characters in the entire manga (fast enough to get behind Bee before he could move, and fast enough to dodge Naruto's attacks in Rikudo Mode), incredibly smart, has three OP mangekyo sharingan abilities: Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, Susanoo each of which is devastating and easily one of the highest caliber jutsu of their types. And he is a normal genjutsu master, being able to counter a genjutsu specialist (kurenai) and put her under a genjutsu.

Now I will admit that there are a few people who can probably beat him but that is because of one of his only faults, he has pretty average chakra levels, and eventually he would go blind. And of those few people that would probably beat him, he is always in the running, you can never discount Itachi from winning a fight.

People that have a chance to beat Itachi:
Minato
Nagato
Madara (current)
Maybe Bee, unlikely but because he can break out of most of his genjutsu then that could turn the tide.
Naruto (only if the fox ever helps him, otherwise Naruto is incredibly weak in genjutsu)
Sasuke (current, only Itachi's eyes could help him beat him, which he wouldn't have)

What most people fail to realize is that only one person in the entire Naruto universe has a counter to Tsukuyomi (Bee has the hachibi and Samehada) and that even that might not be enough as Tsukuyomi only takes one second real time. If genjutsu is used only Bee, or if the fox starts to help him Naruto, can break out of it.

just stop the ems outclasses an ms kinda like how the sharingan is out class by the ms, and idk why you guys think itachi better than madara that doesn't make sense madara/tobi genjutsu beats itachi's,tobi has controlled people for days anad madara fast too don't you think madara has knowledge on other ocular powers,madara is stated to be the best out of the uchiha.

 

[Nidaimerocks]

Someone said Jiraiya was a master at countering genjutsu. FALSE, he himself said he was terrible at genjutsu.

FALSE. You confuse casting genjutsu and breaking genjutsu. Let me quote Kishi for you

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)

It's possible to master "genjutsu escaping" by training. Even those who don't use genjutsu will want to learn this.

So, Jiraiya does not need to master genjutsu casting to be a master of genjutsu kai

Hashirama and Madara - We know literally nothing about his fight with Madara or how strong he and Madara were back then. Who cares if Madara had EMS? Itachi was likely more skilled than him in using it because as Itachi has showcased in literally every battle he is extremely talented..

1. You are wrong because Itachi said Madara is the strongest Uchiha.
2. Madara has tsukuyomi

Hashirama didn't fight the fox he suppressed it and it was sealed into his wife, there is a difference. Would you say that Yamato fights the fox? That is what Hashirama does as mokuton is how they are similar.

Supressing the kyuubi is a jutsu. If you use that jutsu you fight the kyuubi.

Since we know nothing about Hashirama and I don't see any counters to Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu then I'm going to believe that Itachi beats him out.

False logic. You claim we don't know anything about Hashirama, then you turn around and say he will lose to specific jutsu. That is irrational. Furthermore, we know that Hashirama could regenerate. Zetsu and Madara use his genes to do this. Therefore, he would not lose to those jutsu

 

[YIN YANG]

As expected Kishimoto can do whatever he wants but in theory not even jinchūrikis could escape from Tsukuyomi.Genjutsu is broken in 3 ways, first is "genjutsu cancel" (幻術解 genjutsu kai?), a disruption of the victim's chakra flow either by themselves or their allies. Pain that is not a result of the genjutsu, such as stabbing oneself, is a second method of countering genjutsu. Finally, if the caster of the genjutsu loses focus for whatever reason, the jutsu will end and the victim is freed.[17]Tsukuyomi (月読?), a genjutsu that traps the opponent in a realm controlled by the user, during where days of subjective time can pass instantly, and as such allows no time for the target to break free of the jutsu

In bold is how the tailed beasts disrupts chakra inside de genjutsu(they act like another person), and in the other sentence in bold is how it shouldnt happen in Tsukuyomi.

it clearly states a perfect jinchuriki breaks out of genjutsu but we just have to see it and bee broke sasuke.

 

[kadowade]

Itachi is hated by a lot of people now Just becuz He was the star of the week, in the last manga and he's becomin more popular. Popularity = Haters

 

[Kinimaster]

FALSE. You confuse casting genjutsu and breaking genjutsu. Let me quote Kishi for you

You must be registered for see links

)

It's possible to master "genjutsu escaping" by training. Even those who don't use genjutsu will want to learn this.

So, Jiraiya does not need to master genjutsu casting to be a master of genjutsu kai



1. You are wrong because Itachi said Madara is the strongest Uchiha.
2. Madara has tsukuyomi



Supressing the kyuubi is a jutsu. If you use that jutsu you fight the kyuubi.



False logic. You claim we don't know anything about Hashirama, then you turn around and say he will lose to specific jutsu. That is irrational. Furthermore, we know that Hashirama could regenerate. Zetsu and Madara use his genes to do this. Therefore, he would not lose to those jutsu

How do you know that?, he could have never got it, or when he lost his other sharingan with Izanagi and then replaced it with the Rin'negan, therefore he has just one Sharingan eye, based on Sharingan knowledge he should have lost one of this abilities(Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu) and the Susano'o.

 

[kadowade]

it clearly states a perfect jinchuriki breaks out of genjutsu but we just have to see it and bee broke sasuke.

You saw how long it took. Sasuke could of Killed bee while he was in it, But Sasuke Did nothing and let his guard down and Got F'ed up. Bee was COMPLETLEY vulnerable he was just lying on the floor, SAsuke had the PERFECT chance.

SO it dosent matter if someone Trains and finds a way to counter jutsu, Becuz once your in a Genjutsu, You are COMPLETLY vulnerable. Therefore leaving you for a easy kill.

 

[YIN YANG]

You saw how long it took. Sasuke could of Killed bee while he was in it, But Sasuke Did nothing and let his guard down and Got F'ed up. Bee was COMPLETLEY vulnerable he was just lying on the floor, SAsuke had the PERFECT chance.

SO it dosent matter if someone Trains and finds a way to counter jutsu, Becuz once your in a Genjutsu, You are COMPLETLY vulnerable. Therefore leaving you for a easy kill.

sasuke couldnn' kill bee because of the strain of the ms and it doesn't matter how long it took bee itr's weak he won't be phase.
that's why sasuke got hit with a lariet.

 

[kadowade]

How do you know that?, he could have never got it, or when he lost his other sharingan with Izanagi and then replaced it with the Rin'negan, he has just one Sharingan eye, based on Sharingan knowledge he should have lost one of this abilities(Tsukuyomi, Amaterasu) and the Susano'o.

As far as we know madara only has Izangi, But he lost a Eye while fighting Konan, therefore he took the rinnegan,

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

FALSE. You confuse casting genjutsu and breaking genjutsu. Let me quote Kishi for you

You must be registered for see links

)

It's possible to master "genjutsu escaping" by training. Even those who don't use genjutsu will want to learn this.

So, Jiraiya does not need to master genjutsu casting to be a master of genjutsu kai



1. You are wrong because Itachi said Madara is the strongest Uchiha.
2. Madara has tsukuyomi



Supressing the kyuubi is a jutsu. If you use that jutsu you fight the kyuubi.



False logic. You claim we don't know anything about Hashirama, then you turn around and say he will lose to specific jutsu. That is irrational. Furthermore, we know that Hashirama could regenerate. Zetsu and Madara use his genes to do this. Therefore, he would not lose to those jutsu

So apparently if Oro and a bunch of other high level people can't break out of Itachi's genjutsu in time then Jiraiya definitely can? Someone who has less skill in genjutsu? Dispelling genjutsu depends on the skill of the person breaking out and the person who cast the genjutsu. Oh and plus you have to know you are in a genjutsu to begin with. As seen with Deidara and Oro he can make it to where they think it is reality. You lose Jiraiya's ability to break out of genjutsu does not beat Itachi's genjutsu.

I'm wrong because Madara was hyped to be the strongest Uchiha? We haven't seen the past EMS Madara fight a single battle, not one. And of the almost current one (if that is Madara, I don't think it is) he had to lose an eye and an arm to beat Konan, KONAN. So no I don't think Madara Uchiha was the strongest Uchiha, hype means nothing to me, it is just talk.

But he isn't fighting it the same way he fights Madara, all he has to do is trap the Kyuubi and the mokuton suppresses it's chakra. Easy peasy lemon squeezy, and I asked would you call what Yamato does fighting the kyuubi? Hashirama just did it on a bigger scale.

And yes since we know so little about Hashirama it is easier for me to believe that he would lose to Itachi since we have heard of no counters to any of his MS abilities. How would he stop Tsukuyomi? Tell me. Oro what if Amaterasu was used on him when he was about to use mokuton? So far the only way to stop Amaterasu is to seal it, or let whatever it is burning burn completely up. And finally what about Susanoo with his legendary weapons? How would Hashirama get past the Yata mirror or when he is using mokuton how would he dodge the Totsuka sword? Tell me how with logic and things from the manga and I will change my mind.

 

[Kinimaster]

As far as we know madara only has Izangi, But he lost a Eye while fighting Konan, therefore he took the rinnegan,

Exactly so he should have lost one of the MS abilities and the Susano'o for not having both MS eyes.

ps: Although he wanted the Rin'negan before wasting his eye, so he was expecting to lose that abilities from the start i think.

 

[kadowade]

sasuke couldnn' kill bee because of the strain of the ms and it doesn't matter how long it took bee itr's weak he won't be phase.
that's why sasuke got hit with a lariet.

lol bee was just laying on the floor, completly vulnerable, But sasuke let his guard down, and didnt akknowledge the fact that Hachibi can Help escape bee out of a Genjutsu. (Sasuke didnt consider that) becuz if it was someone else, They would of Been in a Coma, Just like how sasuke did Raikage's Henchmen. But since bee has Hacibi, he can escape a Genjutsu in like 15 seconds. But u hav to admit, Bee was defenseless laying on the ground

 

[makinow kitomi]

You saw how long it took. Sasuke could of Killed bee while he was in it, But Sasuke Did nothing and let his guard down and Got F'ed up. Bee was COMPLETLEY vulnerable he was just lying on the floor, SAsuke had the PERFECT chance.

SO it dosent matter if someone Trains and finds a way to counter jutsu, Becuz once your in a Genjutsu, You are COMPLETLY vulnerable. Therefore leaving you for a easy kill.

Sasuke could have killed be. But Be could have broke the Genjutsu right at the time of the the atack. Sasuke could have died if whats his name didnt regenerate his throat after Be sraight close-line his ass.

wat u say is a ''what if- -coulda woulda '' scenario

 

[Itachi Namikaze]

Sasuke could have killed be. But Be could have broke the Genjutsu right at the time of the the atack. Sasuke could have died if whats his name didnt regenerate his throat after Be sraight close-line his ass.

wat u say is a ''what if- -coulda woulda '' scenario

No what he is saying is what should have happened if Sasuke wasn't such an arrogant idiot. Sasuke had a huge opening and blew it. Plus this thread isn't about Sasuke and Bee at all. If Sasuke had an opening due to genjutsu then you know Itachi would have that same opening but more likely he would have a bigger chance.

 

[YIN YANG]

So apparently if Oro and a bunch of other high level people can't break out of Itachi's genjutsu in time then Jiraiya definitely can? Someone who has less skill in genjutsu? Dispelling genjutsu depends on the skill of the person breaking out and the person who cast the genjutsu. Oh and plus you have to know you are in a genjutsu to begin with. As seen with Deidara and Oro he can make it to where they think it is reality. You lose Jiraiya's ability to break out of genjutsu does not beat Itachi's genjutsu.

I'm wrong because Madara was hyped to be the strongest Uchiha? We haven't seen the past EMS Madara fight a single battle, not one. And of the almost current one (if that is Madara, I don't think it is) he had to lose an eye and an arm to beat Konan, KONAN. So no I don't think Madara Uchiha was the strongest Uchiha, hype means nothing to me, it is just talk.

But he isn't fighting it the same way he fights Madara, all he has to do is trap the Kyuubi and the mokuton suppresses it's chakra. Easy peasy lemon squeezy, and I asked would you call what Yamato does fighting the kyuubi? Hashirama just did it on a bigger scale.

And yes since we know so little about Hashirama it is easier for me to believe that he would lose to Itachi since we have heard of no counters to any of his MS abilities. How would he stop Tsukuyomi? Tell me. Oro what if Amaterasu was used on him when he was about to use mokuton? So far the only way to stop Amaterasu is to seal it, or let whatever it is burning burn completely up. And finally what about Susanoo with his legendary weapons? How would Hashirama get past the Yata mirror or when he is using mokuton how would he dodge the Totsuka sword? Tell me how with logic and things from the manga and I will change my mind.

stop konan is not weak she had a deadly jutsu so what you tried to say about madara doesn't prove him weaker than itachi at all.Haven't you relize he doesn't really care about losin limbs that much he'll just throw them at you when he has the chance.you have no proof of jiraiya not being able ot get oout of itachi genjutsu he is trained just think about even if jairaiya wanted ot fight him would you think he just go in a genjutsu fight not knowing how to counter when the enemy just needs to look at your eyes.even if itachi was a spy he can still kill tobi if he had a chance because that will even make danzo more pleased but can't because tobi has tricks.
what are you saying the naruto with the nine tails now only has the yang chakra that's just half at that time there was the complete nine tails you'll to really work to even try to suppress it.
idk why you guys even think Itachi will win against the 1-4 hokages all you say is ssusanno it's not invincible nearly there are ways of countering it.:flaw:

 

[kadowade]

Sasuke could have killed be. But Be could have broke the Genjutsu right at the time of the the atack. Sasuke could have died if whats his name didnt regenerate his throat after Be sraight close-line his ass.

wat u say is a ''what if- -coulda woulda '' scenario

All sasuke had to do was Stab him with chidori stream, or Kunai. , while bee was laying there lol. BUT sasuke was being a dumbass and did nothin and thought it was over lolxd He mustve forgot Bee Has Hachibi lol

 

[arv993]

1. Space-time jutsu, regardless of how they work, allow one to move faster than jutsu that travel in time. This is true for the narutoverse, for Marvel comics or any other manga. amaterasu and susano'o travel in time, therefore logically, nidaime will avoid them. That is simple logic
2. I see no reason to believe that nidaime's space-time jutsu is more basic than Minato's. I am happy to listen to why you think that
3. A perfect defense protects you when the attacker can't bypass it. If nidaime moves outside of time and Itachi has no knowledge, he won't know to use susano'o. Hence the reason I said in a NO KNOWLEDGE scenario, his head could be cut off

I don't remember saying this fight would be easy. I said without knowledge, nidaime is as likely to lose to tsukuyomi as Itachi is to get his head cut off. That's all

No but the thing is we don't kno how nidaime's sppace time ninjutsu works it can be a harder process than minato's which is to throw kunais around or put a seal on someone or something it might be a more annoying process. Like you kno how edo tensei of oro's was much slower cos he had to put something to their back and less effective than kabuto's. You can't be sure he can dodge all of itachi's attacks even fast ones like amaterasu, so you are making a very bold assumption that his space time jutsus are like minato's and as effective when it is probably the opposite. And the way you say that nidaime "will" avoid them is so definite and can't be proven unless we see more of him becos like i said his process may not be as effective cos no matter what S/t techs are set up and its likely nidaime is not as good as Itachi is becos he was not stated or known for speed like minato was the konoha's yellow flash, that pretty much indicates highly that his st techs are not on minato's lvl.