Itachi vs Pain

[Guildmage]

*Sighs*. U_U Would u please stop cursin and sayin "fanboy" That "sh!t is getting old. And what did i twist?

And Luckily Nagato was an Edo Tensei, so he was immune to Genjutsu. (except Kotoamatsukami). Because if Nagato wasen't an Edo Tensei, Itachi could've easily just pointed a finger at Nagato and immobilize him, placing him in a Genjutsu and that would've left Nagato open for an easy finish.

So as soon as Nagato prepares Chibaku Tensei, all Itachi has to do place a Genjutsu. Chibaku Tensei is not an instantaneous death. The victim will have plenty of time to think and elaborate, before he gets crushed. And Thats something Itachi does well.

And Genjutsu is Itachi's biggest factor and strength, while it's Nagato's weak point, weakness. (proved by jiraiya). So Nagato is easily open for a Genjutsu.

And Amaterasu is enough to destroy Chibaku Tensei.

1st bolded part: do you have any proof that genjutsu would have been effective if nagato wasn't edo tenseid?? OBVIOUSLY NOT!!! OH WAIT!! I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING KOTO AMATSUKI WAS EFFECTIVE ON ITACHI WHO WAS A EDO TENSEI AND IT WORKED??? HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE OMGOMGOMG OMGOMGOGMOG wrong.... IT TOOK THE BEST GENJUTSU TO MAKE SOMEONE OF ITACHI'S CALIBER TO FALL INTO IT!! Same would have happened with Nagato (Jiraiya's frog genjutsu is no push-over technique).
As I have stated many times finger genjutsu is like a C-rank technique if compared to Frog Song which can be considered a A-Rank and Tsukuyomi and koto amatsuki as a S-Rank.

Summary: If Itachi was able to fall in genjutsu (Koto Amatsuki) then why Nagato isn't??. So Nagato is as same as vulnerable to genjutsu as itachi during his Edo tensei version.

Bolded part 2: Once again WRONG!! Pain was caught in genjutsu CORRECT. BUT HE NEVER STATED THAT GENJUTSU WAS HIS WEAKNESS. EVEN MORE I HAVE MY OWN WAYS TO SAY THAT HE GOT GENJUTSU PROWESS, for example we know that Rinnegan gives ying release which according to 3rd mizukage, you are much likely a natural genjutsu pontential user. We also have seen the mind block made by pain on his subordinates minds too.

Summary: By having Ying Release, able to put mind blocks on his subordinates we know that he can play mind tricks and games and EVEN PROTECT HIMSELF TOO.

Bolded part 3: With all due respect, but this HAS NO LOGIC. First of all we know that amaterasu does NOT incinerates INSTANTLY, tell me how long raikage was able to have amaterasu on his arm and everything that happened and occured and amaterasu hasn't burnt him yet? Second to this, If Itachi happened to throw amaterasu at the chibaku tensei planet, and as we already know it won't burn instantly, have you realized that itachi would not be going straight to a big rocky planet, BUT TO A BIG ROCKY PLANET COVERED IN THOSE BLACK FLAMES?? WHICH IS WORST THAN BEFORE.

Summary: Amaterasu does not incinerates instantly, if Itachi were to throw amaterasu at Chibaku Tensei it would make things worst by setting on fire his own tomb.

 

[kadowade]

1st bolded part: do you have any proof that genjutsu would have been effective if nagato wasn't edo tenseid?? OBVIOUSLY NOT!!! OH WAIT!! I JUST REALIZED SOMETHING KOTO AMATSUKI WAS EFFECTIVE ON ITACHI WHO WAS A EDO TENSEI AND IT WORKED??? HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE OMGOMGOMG OMGOMGOGMOG wrong.... IT TOOK THE BEST GENJUTSU TO MAKE SOMEONE OF ITACHI'S CALIBER TO FALL INTO IT!! Same would have happened with Nagato (Jiraiya's frog genjutsu is no push-over technique).
As I have stated many times finger genjutsu is like a C-rank technique if compared to Frog Song which can be considered a A-Rank and Tsukuyomi and koto amatsuki as a S-Rank.

Summary: If Itachi was able to fall in genjutsu (Koto Amatsuki) then why Nagato isn't??. So Nagato is as same as vulnerable to genjutsu as itachi during his Edo tensei version.

Bolded part 2: Once again WRONG!! Pain was caught in genjutsu CORRECT. BUT HE NEVER STATED THAT GENJUTSU WAS HIS WEAKNESS. EVEN MORE I HAVE MY OWN WAYS TO SAY THAT HE GOT GENJUTSU PROWESS, for example we know that Rinnegan gives ying release which according to 3rd mizukage, you are much likely a natural genjutsu pontential user. We also have seen the mind block made by pain on his subordinates minds too.

Summary: By having Ying Release, able to put mind blocks on his subordinates we know that he can play mind tricks and games and EVEN PROTECT HIMSELF TOO.

Bolded part 3: With all due respect, but this HAS NO LOGIC. First of all we know that amaterasu does NOT incinerates INSTANTLY, tell me how long raikage was able to have amaterasu on his arm and everything that happened and occured and amaterasu hasn't burnt him yet? Second to this, If Itachi happened to throw amaterasu at the chibaku tensei planet, and as we already know it won't burn instantly, have you realized that itachi would not be going straight to a big rocky planet, BUT TO A BIG ROCKY PLANET COVERED IN THOSE BLACK FLAMES?? WHICH IS WORST THAN BEFORE.

Summary: Amaterasu does not incinerates instantly, if Itachi were to throw amaterasu at Chibaku Tensei it would make things worst by setting on fire his own tomb.

What was you talking about in your first paragraph. I said luckily Nagato WAS an Edo tensei, so Genjutsu from itachi wouldn't work. ONLY Kotoamtsukami is strong enough, Kaubto said. So you misinterpreted what i said in your 1st paragraph.

And yeah Amaterasu does take a while to burn. So that would've been pointless. But if Nagato WASEN't an Edo tensei, he would be vulnereable to Itachi's Genjutsu. And can just use Genjutsu to immobilize Nagato while he's using Chibaku Tensei. And you can't tell me Genjutsu isn't almost instantneous, cuz it is.

Just so you don't misunderstand what i said again, ill say it again.

If Nagato wasent an Edo Tensei, Itachi could've used Genjutsu on him

The ONLY reason Itachi's Genjutsu, was useless was because ONLY 1 Genjutsu is strong enough to work on Edo tensei. So Itachi's strongest factor(Genjutsu) was usless against an Edo tensei)

This is why.....

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[Guildmage]

by saying that he didn't mean to paralize or disrupt chakra....
By that he meant....... TO TAKE OVER CONTROL OF HIS OWN BODY AND SENSES AGAIN

similar to the type of genjutsu that is used to control kyuubi by the uchiha clan.

As we already know there are genjutsu types that simply paralize the target, disrupt it's chakra or CONTROL SOMEONE ELSE THROUGH AN ILLUSION.

And CASUALLY KOTO AMATSUKI IS ONE OF THOSE CONTROL SOMEONE GENJUTSU.

so no, i'm still not convinced at all that edo tensei makes you anti-genjutsu.

 

[kadowade]

by saying that he didn't mean to paralize or disrupt chakra....
By that he meant....... TO TAKE OVER CONTROL OF HIS OWN BODY AND SENSES AGAIN

similar to the type of genjutsu that is used to control kyuubi by the uchiha clan.

As we already know there are genjutsu types that simply paralize the target, disrupt it's chakra or CONTROL SOMEONE ELSE THROUGH AN ILLUSION.

And CASUALLY KOTO AMATSUKI IS ONE OF THOSE CONTROL SOMEONE GENJUTSU.

so no, i'm still not convinced at all that edo tensei makes you anti-genjutsu.

lol. Dude it's as simple as this- Only one Genjutsu is strong enough to break Edo Tensei. And that is Kotoamatsukami. Does Itachi have Kotoamatsukami.....No.

 

[laxus]

What was you talking about in your first paragraph. I said luckily Nagato WAS an Edo tensei, so Genjutsu from itachi wouldn't work. ONLY Kotoamtsukami is strong enough, Kaubto said. So you misinterpreted what i said in your 1st paragraph.

And yeah Amaterasu does take a while to burn. So that would've been pointless. But if Nagato WASEN't an Edo tensei, he would be vulnereable to Itachi's Genjutsu. And can just use Genjutsu to immobilize Nagato while he's using Chibaku Tensei. And you can't tell me Genjutsu isn't almost instantneous, cuz it is.

Just so you don't misunderstand what i said again, ill say it again.

If Nagato wasent an Edo Tensei, Itachi could've used Genjutsu on him

The ONLY reason Itachi's Genjutsu, was useless was because ONLY 1 Genjutsu is strong enough to work on Edo tensei. So Itachi's strongest factor(Genjutsu) was usless against an Edo tensei)

This is why.....

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not really proof, it seems like he meant that there only one genjutsu that can release an edo tensa person out of his command,they can stilll get in genjutsu and get affected by the effects but will still be on kabuto control

 

[Uchiha seeker]

omg its so close whos gonna win in the poll

 

[Owarij]

omg its so close whos gonna win in the poll

sigh the answer is nagato, there are just too many fanboys who overrate itachi, i love the effing guy, i really do , i think he's awsome , but damnn he has no way of beating chibaku tensei on his own

 

[MinatoFLASH]

look i showed u in my links that sussano does form fast and i even told u that bee and naruto were about to die obviously he is not gonna try and seal nagato that is secondary where as their lives are more important. itachi is not helpless i told u he can use genjutsu which can work no proof against it, and genjutsu in fight can be put on deva b4 ghe can do CT. look at him vs sasuke he does not take time at all to use sussano but in this case he had to save bee and naruto first so obviously he has to be in form 1 and can't go to form two since they did not have any time and were about to die. i told u in a 1v1 itachi has options of genjutsu or also sword of totsuka both of which are faster than CT which pain's is slower version and yet u don't admit it.
jutsus against rinnegan and it wins then why did nagato get sealed if rinnegan is greater than MS it should not have worked so stop going on such pretenses when u have no proof at all. rinnegan>Ms is not an auto win and higher kgs does not always equal win but yet you simply say that as reason for why pain can beat all of genjutsus(aka tsukiyomi) techs some of which u need uchiha blood to break something pain does not have.

I already told u that Pain cud make a path step in front who wud take the genjutsu. Now Susanoo is instant when it appears but he does not get the entire form until a while as shown in manga against Nagato and against Sasuke. So yes, CT= Itachi dies

Dude the reason Itachi used his incomplete Susano'o when he saved bee and Naruto was because, in his COMPLETE version, he wouldn't be able to pick them both up because one arm has Yata Mirror, and other has Totsuku blade. Thats is why he used his incomplete version so the hands can be free.

And still, none of yall gave proof as to why Itachi can't just seal him while Nagato uses Chibaku Tensei. Just because he didn't doit, dosent mean he can't. It's just kishi, felt that he should show us another technique Itachi has And NAruto and bee working together. It annoys me when everytime Itachi chooses to use an certain technique, somebody always thinks his other techniques dosen't work, just because ITachi chose the smartest and most efficent way.

No the 2 were completely saved and he still chose to destroy CT first. They were even talking to him about how they shud destroy it.

*Sighs*. U_U Would u please stop cursin and sayin "fanboy" That "sh!t is getting old. And what did i twist?

And Luckily Nagato was an Edo Tensei, so he was immune to Genjutsu. (except Kotoamatsukami). Because if Nagato wasen't an Edo Tensei, Itachi could've easily just pointed a finger at Nagato and immobilize him, placing him in a Genjutsu and that would've left Nagato open for an easy finish.

So as soon as Nagato prepares Chibaku Tensei, all Itachi has to do place a Genjutsu. Chibaku Tensei is not an instantaneous death. The victim will have plenty of time to think and elaborate, before he gets crushed. And Thats something Itachi does well.

And Genjutsu is Itachi's biggest factor and strength, while it's Nagato's weak point, weakness. (proved by jiraiya). So Nagato is easily open for a Genjutsu.

And Amaterasu is enough to destroy Chibaku Tensei.

He cannot just put him in a genjutsu because Pain knows Itachi's powers and so another path can just step up also Pain cud escape a random genjutsu while the paths defend him unless its tsukyomi which it won't be because Pain won't look in his eyes, everyone knows about tsukyomi even Kakashi. So he wud eventually pull a CT and kill Itachi. Also amatarasu won't even scratch CT lol! Amatarasu has no destructive powers at all.

omg its so close whos gonna win in the poll

I have already proved Pain is more powerful slightly so idc who wins the poll.

sigh the answer is nagato, there are just too many fanboys who overrate itachi, i love the effing guy, i really do , i think he's awsome , but damnn he has no way of beating chibaku tensei on his own

Agreed 100% rep+

 

[arv993]

sigh the answer is nagato, there are just too many fanboys who overrate itachi, i love the effing guy, i really do , i think he's awsome , but damnn he has no way of beating chibaku tensei on his own

why does he have to beat Ct its not something he can just pop outt in an instant can he, what can nagato do with the sword of totsuka especiallysince he has bad mobility. And does he have a defense to genjutsu also. you're only looking at CT and determining the battle which is not really the right way to look at it when the opponent has a faster attack that is also deadly.

 

[arv993]

I already told u that Pain cud make a path step in front who wud take the genjutsu. Now Susanoo is instant when it appears but he does not get the entire form until a while as shown in manga against Nagato and against Sasuke. So yes, CT= Itachi dies

a path is not that fast sorry to break that fact to you he can''t come in between a genjutsu. And that is called plot no jutsu becos if u look back at sasuke vs itachi it absolutely takes no time for him to get sussano up but in this fight it did becos obviously kishi does not want to kill off nagato like he is nothing plus like i also said its justified partly becos he had to save bee and naruto who were really close to death. and look at sasuke too he can get sussano to form in seconds against kakshi too and itachi showed this too against his fight with sasuke.

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And pain knos tsukiyomi and how it completely works isn't that an assumption you're making that helps your point of view. we have no idea if he knos that or not, CT was an amazing jutsu and itachi had no clue about it so why does nagato/pain kno about his jutsus.

 

[kadowade]

@Minatoflash Man you keep saying Nagato would just avoid Tsukiyomi like it's that easy.
Every ninja looks into another ninja eyes. Plus theres no way you'll be able to fight a Kage-level ninja while trying your hardest to avoid his eyes.

Besides even if pain escapes a Genjutsu, Itachi can just cast it again as soon as he escapes. Itachi can just spam Genjutsu since it only requires minimal Chakra. And it's VERY easy to preform. By simply pointing a finger.

Dosen't matter if pain knows Itachi's powers. Itachi knows Nagato's powers as well. He knew how to get pass the Rinnegan by using Kunai's. So that means Itachi knew they all shared vision, and are linked, which most ninja didn't knw, not even jiraiya, until it was too late

And you said Pain can escape a Random Genjutsu ,wtf no he can't. He can't just escape a Genjutsu instantly. Actually we don't even know if Nagato even knows how to escape a Genjutsu. He didn't escape Jiraiya's.

And you said Amaterasu won't scratch Chibaku Tensei. lol. That black ball is nothing but Chakra and Amaterasu > Chakra. But Amaterasu burns too slowly.

Seriously theres no way to use such a technique with a Long preparation such as Chibaku Tensei. How will he escape a Genjutsu, while trying to use Chibaku tensei? huh? Half of his chakra would be gone from using chibaku tensei and failing due to Genjutsu immobilizing and disturbing him

And you said Pain can make a path jump in front of him to take the Genjutsu? No because once Itachi points his finger BAM. he's trapped. Besides his paths cannot free him from Genjutsu, because it's stated that a diffrent Chakra source can free you from a Genjutsu. Nagato is ONE source idk how many times i had to say this. Genjutsu disturbs Chakra, and All 6 paths share the SAME chakra, so all of their chakra should be disturbed and put under Genjutsu.

You can also escape genjutsu by concetrating your chakra, to release it which takes time, stated by jiraiya. Remember Naruto tried it? He failed because it took too much time.
Genjutsu at Itachi's level and efficency is too much for Nagato.

 

[FloriGlori]

As I already said once:

Itachi definitely could do something about Chibaku Tensei. The first way would be to destroy it with Amaterasu before it attracts too many stones. Amaterasu even burned fire itself, so it wouldn't take long to destroy the core. And since Chibaku Tensei attracts everything, it'd also attract Amaterasu. The second one would be to burn Pain with Amaterasu while he's preparing or using it, as kadowade already said it doesn't work instantly.

What will Pain do about Susanoo or Amaterasu? None of his bodys except of Gakido & Tendo could do anything about the black flames. If Gakido tries to absorb them from another body, it means that two bodys are distracted, what gives Itachi a good chance to attack. If he's clever (what he definitely is) he'll just aim for their eyes; no eyes means no power, and we already saw that Pain can be easily blinded. Susanoo means death for those who get too close to Itachi anyway (so Bansho Tennin would be suicide for Tendo). It's activated in an instant, that way Itachi was able to block Kirin. Shinra Tensei wouldn't even pressurize it that much, since it possesses Yata no Kagami & even Katsuju was able to protect the villagers from the huge version. With Yasaka no Magatama he even got a strong long range attack. Don't tell me about Itachis bad stamina now; in his battle with Sasuke he used Amaterasu four times (one time for a really long time), extinguished it once (which is quite damaging as we later saw at Sasuke), used Tsukuyomi (which got broken, that took quite a toll, too), kept Susanoo activate for about ten minutes & last but not least transfered his Amaterasu into Sasuke. He'll neither use Tsukuyomi, nor will he extinguish Amaterasu. He won't transfer Amaterasu to Pain either. So, Itachi could do a lot against Pain. Apart from that he's a master when it comes to illusions, and we already saw that they perfectly work on Pain. We also saw a complete stadium being caught inside an illusion, and like Madara said the trick lies in how to use even a small, weak Genjutsu. Itachi's also using tricks like exploding Bunshin or Karasu Bunshin and is pretty skilled with weapons; in the shortest time he was able to find Nagatos blind spot & hit it with Kunai. Not to speak of his speed. We also saw that the hell statue can be easily defeated. Now I gave some arguments. Please refute my post with real arguments, not that ridiculous fanboy-bullshit; it just makes you look like dumb children. ;D

 

[Missing Uchiha]

I say a draw becauese pain has uncontrollable power like he could hold his ground with 6 tail kubyib. But Itachi is strong too nd alot of skilles and genjustes so i say draw

 

[~Uzumaki~]

As I already said once:

Itachi definitely could do something about Chibaku Tensei. The first way would be to destroy it with Amaterasu before it attracts too many stones. Amaterasu even burned fire itself, so it wouldn't take long to destroy the core. And since Chibaku Tensei attracts everything, it'd also attract Amaterasu. The second one would be to burn Pain with Amaterasu while he's preparing or using it, as kadowade already said it doesn't work instantly.

What will Pain do about Susanoo or Amaterasu? None of his bodys except of Gakido & Tendo could do anything about the black flames. If Gakido tries to absorb them from another body, it means that two bodys are distracted, what gives Itachi a good chance to attack. If he's clever (what he definitely is) he'll just aim for their eyes; no eyes means no power, and we already saw that Pain can be easily blinded. Susanoo means death for those who get too close to Itachi anyway (so Bansho Tennin would be suicide for Tendo). It's activated in an instant, that way Itachi was able to block Kirin. Shinra Tensei wouldn't even pressurize it that much, since it possesses Yata no Kagami & even Katsuju was able to protect the villagers from the huge version. With Yasaka no Magatama he even got a strong long range attack. Don't tell me about Itachis bad stamina now; in his battle with Sasuke he used Amaterasu four times (one time for a really long time), extinguished it once (which is quite damaging as we later saw at Sasuke), used Tsukuyomi (which got broken, that took quite a toll, too), kept Susanoo activate for about ten minutes & last but not least transfered his Amaterasu into Sasuke. He'll neither use Tsukuyomi, nor will he extinguish Amaterasu. He won't transfer Amaterasu to Pain either. So, Itachi could do a lot against Pain. Apart from that he's a master when it comes to illusions, and we already saw that they perfectly work on Pain. We also saw a complete stadium being caught inside an illusion, and like Madara said the trick lies in how to use even a small, weak Genjutsu. Itachi's also using tricks like exploding Bunshin or Karasu Bunshin and is pretty skilled with weapons; in the shortest time he was able to find Nagatos blind spot & hit it with Kunai. Not to speak of his speed. We also saw that the hell statue can be easily defeated. Now I gave some arguments. Please refute my post with real arguments, not that ridiculous fanboy-bullshit; it just makes you look like dumb children. ;D

about Chibaku Tensei, Amaterasu is useless cuz its fast in moving but slow in burning, Itachi cant destroy the sphere alone, it took him,Naruto and B to do it and Yasaka no Magatama is Itachi's strongest long range attack and that cant get the job done alone. Amaterasu will be absorbed even if he aims their eyes, Bansho Tenin will hold Susanoo in place as Itachi will try to resist it but holding on to the ground with Susanoo's hands(like Sasuke held on against Danzo) and isnt Susanoo a ninjutsu? yeah, it is....and couldnt Pain absorb all ninjutsu? \yeah he could...so isnt susanoo pretty much useless then? Im very sure it is, so is amaterasu even if he aims eyes. as for genjutsu, I have a thread on that called the six paths of pain can counter all genjutsu, tricks wont work on 360 vision, Naruto couldnt trick Neji who had just near 360 vision and he needed Pa and Ma's help to break the rinnegan link. So Itachi is DeAD. sorry.

 

[Roy]

Tough one.. never seen Itachi go all out while he was healthy..

And as for Pain being able to counter genjutsu, one of his "paths" got destroyed by Jiraiya after Pa and Ma used their genjutsu, so your argument is invalid.

Not voting X_X they're both incredibly strong.

 

[FloriGlori]

Those are ridiculous arguments, Uzumaki16. Where did you read that Amaterasu burns slowly? It burned Katon: Gokakyu & Sasuke's wing in the shortest time. The

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, which is way bigger than Chibaku Tensei's core, was burned to ashes while Itachi was just saying a couple of sentences. Itachi could've done the job alone, but why should he waste his Amaterasu if he wants to stop Edo Tensei afterwards? As I already said it's pretty damaging to the user. Itachi had to explain everything to Naruto & Bee first, Bee even had enough time to transform into Hachibi. If Itachi would've wanted so, he could have acted much earlier. Amaterasu can be absorbed, but not before the affected body becomes blind. Could you look into the sun longer than about five seconds? No, because eyes are very sensitive to heat, and Amaterasu is said to be as hot as the sun. It would be stupid to use Bansho Tennin against Itachi; while Tendo attracts him he'd simply activate Susanoo & crush him with it. We already saw that Sasuke can move & jump freely with Susanoo's first stage activated, so I don't see any reason why Itachi shouldn't be able to activate it in the air. Theoretically it can be absorbed, that's true, but look at

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picture. Just the sake jar that creates Totsuka no Tsurugi is four times as big as a human. And since it's a weapon, a spirit weapon, it can't be absorbed. Given those facts, do you really think that Gakido could get close enough to absorb Susanoo? Even if Gakido somehow manages to do so, Itachi can paralyze him by using Genjutsu or simply deactivate Susanoo. Each body who gets too close to Itachi will end up being crushed or sealed by Totsuka, that's fact.

A last word to Genjutsu: Don't invent strange theories why it supposedly wouldn't work. Genjutsu works on Pain, that's a 100% proved by Jiraiya. It doesn't matter if a Genjutsu is used with the eyes, through sound or with mere handseals - all of them affect the mind, the chakra flow in the user's brain. That's why Itachi can throw single bodys into an illusion just like Jiraiya did. Even if the affected Pain closes his eyes & uses the others' vision, the Genjutsu is still inside his mind, for which reason the shared vision does not help against it. The bodys could get each others out of illusions, that's true, but a body on its own can't avoid being caught inside a Genjutsu by simply closing its eyes. The shared vision does help in case of a mere visual Genjutsu, that lets a body only see something that actually isn't true. But in case of a paralyzing Genjutsu the shared vision is, as I explained, meaningless.

 

[~Uzumaki~]

amaterasu is slow as it couldnt completely burn raikage's arm, and normal fire could act faster than that. the rest I must hav explained b4

 

[Klubargutan]

itachi wins...

 

[NarutoYellowFlash]

Pain or Nagato>Itachi because Rennigan is stronger then the Sharingan!

 

[kaddie3]

Pain or Nagato>Itachi because Rennigan is stronger then the Sharingan!

It's not about how strong the eye is, it's about how skillful the user is with it.