Itachi Vs Nagato

[Cahya]

No he put Hashirama above the Uchiha, if the Senju were above the Uchiha the war would've been long over before Hashirama came. And Uzumaki weren't even relevant not even top tier enough to be considered either's equal. Kabuto didn't know many things about Itachi and was over confident. He even thought he could defeat Itachi and capture Sasuke. As for Nagato being the second strongest Edo yes he has many abilities others don't.

I have no energy to try and look it up now but I distinctively remember it being said that the Senju was usually above the Uchiha, it wasn't merely Hashi>Madara. Maybe my memory on that is fucked. The clans weren't completely equal though, not that it would be needed for the conflict between them to continue

The Uzumaki were relevant enough in being such close relatives to such a top tier clan like the Senju for my point to be made. Being an Uzumaki was one of the main reasons why Nagato was described as a perfect host for a Dojutsu that was too much for even Obito with Hashi DNA to implant for both eyes.

All the edo's have abilities others don't. Nagato was the second strongest for multiple reasons.

Besides, no one in Kabuto's lineup can even come close to Nagato's humor.

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[salamander uchiha]

I have no energy to try and look it up now but I distinctively remember it being said that the Senju was usually above the Uchiha, it wasn't merely Hashi>Madara. Maybe my memory on that is fucked. The clans weren't completely equal though, not that it would be needed for the conflict between them to continue

That's nonsesne, if one is consistently dominant they beat the other one into submission. The only time the Senju were ever dominant was because of Hashirama and that was the period that was being referenced.

The Uzumaki were relevant enough in being such close relatives to such a top tier clan like the Senju for my point to be made. Being an Uzumaki was one of the main reasons why Nagato was described as a perfect host for a Dojutsu that was too much for even Obito with Hashi DNA to implant for both eyes.

Obviously not since they weren't relevant enoughto be considered a top tier clan alongside the Senju or Uchiha. Relationship doesn't automatically give yoi the same standing or equivalence. I don't remember Nagato being described as the perfect host od there's a scan I would like to see it. As for Obito he didn't really have Hashi DNA which isn't some second rate gooey substance even if he did Hashi DNA wouldn't give him the ability to handle the Rinnegan. Anyway Obito had to control the tailed beasts, fight a Kamui user, Guy sensei and two Jins. On top of that he had to control the Jyubi's overwhelming power as it's jin while fighting the previous Lage and the alliance. I'm not surprised he was having trouble doing all of that and maintaining control of the eye. I don't know how you tried tp use that to establish a superior feat for Nagato since Nagato didn't have to do anything close to Obito's level.

All the edo's have abilities others don't. Nagato was the second strongest for multiple reasons.

Besides, no one in Kabuto's lineup can even come close to Nagato's humor.

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Not to the level of Nagato obvioulsy.

Anyway I was merely clearing something up.

Have a good day.

 

[MightGai]

I have no energy to try and look it up now but I distinctively remember it being said that the Senju was usually above the Uchiha, it wasn't merely Hashi>Madara. Maybe my memory on that is fucked. The clans weren't completely equal though, not that it would be needed for the conflict between them to continue

Hashirama:

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In the VIZ he says something like "it was painfully obvious that we were superior" or something like that.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Hashirama:

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In the VIZ he says something like "it was painfully obvious that we were superior" or something like that.

You know he didn't say that.

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[Mellanoma]

An exhausted deva path that just beat 8 tails kurama and sm naruto, sure.

lol just reading this. Deva was not exhausted. He still had his deva powers. Its just naruto outsmarted him.

 

[MightGai]

You know he didn't say that.

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Mmm I remember one of the translations said "painfully obvious" in that dialogue. Anyways, it was indeed stated that the Uchiha were inferior or weaker than the Senju.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Mmm I remember one of the translations said "painfully obvious" in that dialogue. Anyways, it was indeed stated that the Uchiha were inferior or weaker than the Senju.

It wasn't, but regardless they were in an unfavourable position at that moment. Which was maybe a couple of days to a few weeks at best. Tobirama stated that the Uchiha awaken a power that exceeds even the Senju's. In otherwprds their power is sulerior to the Senju clan's.

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I understand why the Uchiha never really used their Sharingan prowess to copy jutsu and cast genjutsu followed by ne k slice. They would just end up negging everybody and dominate the world.

 

[MightGai]

It wasn't, but regardless they were in an unfavourable position at that moment. Which was maybe a couple of days to a few weeks at best. Tobirama stated that the Uchiha awaken a power that exceeds even the Senju's. In otherwprds their power is sulerior to the Senju clan's.

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I understand why the Uchiha never really used their Sharingan prowess to copy jutsu and cast genjutsu followed by ne k slice. They would just end up negging everybody and dominate the world.

The power is the sharingan, and as it was stated, the Sharingan is a tool, depends on the nins using it. Else it would be saying that any uchiha fodder with sharingan can defeat Hashirama.

 

[salamander uchiha]

The power is the sharingan, and as it was stated, the Sharingan is a tool, depends on the nins using it. Else it would be saying that any uchiha fodder with sharingan can defeat Hashirama.

Hashirama is an exception(literally the Jyubi's body in human form) even amongst the senju clan, Tobirama was referring to the senju clan in general. And it's pretty clear that the Senju can't rival that power from Tobirama's confession, it's just that the Uchiha never really used it's abilities(plot nerf). So yeah it's a tool which is a's good as it's user that is if he ever actually employs it's abilities, obviously some did that's why Tobirama made that statement.

 

[MightGai]

Hashirama is an exception(literally the Jyubi's body in human form) even amongst the senju clan, Tobirama was referring to the senju clan in general. And it's pretty clear that the Senju can't rival that power from Tobirama's confession, it's just that the Uchiha never really used it's abilities(plot nerf). So yeah it's a tool which is a's good as it's user that is if he ever actually employs it's abilities, obviously some did that's why Tobirama made that statement.

Ok, Hashirama being the exception, the Asura reincarnation and whatever, replace him with Tobirama and it's the same. Even in brotherly fights, Senju still wins since Izuna was killed by Tobirama. If anything, I would say Madara was the exception in the Uchiha and not the other way arround with Hashirama in the Senju.

Also, we were at a point in time where the whole clan were fodderized by a 13yr old uchiha who barely grasped mangekyou by then.

 

[AllKnowingShinobi]

Nagato takes it only if hes 20 miles out and is controlling all the other pains.. but 1v1 itachi wins.. instant totsuka blade to the dome...

 

[BenjerminGaye]

lol just reading this. Deva was not exhausted. He still had his deva powers. Its just naruto outsmarted him.

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Exhausted throughout.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Ok, Hashirama being the exception, the Asura reincarnation and whatever, replace him with Tobirama and it's the same. Even in brotherly fights, Senju still wins since Izuna was killed by Tobirama. If anything, I would say Madara was the exception in the Uchiha and not the other way arround with Hashirama in the Senju.

You're joking right, Tobirama made a jutsu to counter Izuna and even then he tells Sasuke the senju can't match the Uchiha power. Like I said Hashirama was the exception after all it was in his time they found peace.

Also, we were at a point in time where the whole clan were fodderized by a 13yr old uchiha who barely grasped mangekyou by then.

The Uchiha were isolated by Tobirama and kept away from battle for a reason. In battle they get stronger and more powerful with every passing moment. It's an easy way to weaken them even then they were feared as the strongest clan. Anyway it wasn't I taxi who beat them it was Tobi.

 

[Mellanoma]

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Exhausted throughout.

His Deva path was still capable of combating Naruto though. Only reason he lost was Naruto outsmarted deva path. Pain was actually out smarted quite a few times in the series. Displaying a lack of battle intellect in my opinion. The fact that he tried to out muscle the nine tails jin is proof of that.

Matter of fact: Why didn't he just kill Naruto and revive him later like Kabuto planned on? Or simply revive him like he did the village? Plot i guess but since we are discussing i shall contribute it to lack of intelligence lol

 

[Nakamura Nagata]

They will indeed roast each other but... Nagato wins nigguh..

 

[MightGai]

You're joking right, Tobirama made a jutsu to counter Izuna

Which one? It's never stated that Hiraishin was created for that, it just happens to be the jutsu used to murder him

and even then he tells Sasuke the senju can't match the Uchiha power. Like I said Hashirama was the exception after all it was in his time they found peace.

He never said that, there is a reason why they eventually ended winning the clan war. Again, he was refering to the Sharingan, which is a tool, and just wasn't enough to bring the Senju down.

The Uchiha were isolated by Tobirama and kept away from battle for a reason.

Yes, because they were traitors (which was later proved by the attempted coup) and so he could keep a closer eye on them.

In battle they get stronger and more powerful with every passing moment. It's an easy way to weaken them even then they were feared as the strongest clan. Anyway it wasn't I taxi who beat them it was Tobi.

Like every shinobi. Hashirama says otherwise, and since Madara was left alone in the end by his clanmates, proves he was right. Tobi helped, Itachi was the main author of the massacre.

 

[salamander uchiha]

Which one? It's never stated that Hiraishin was created for that, it just happens to be the jutsu used to murder him

What that means is if he had it before he would've used ot and Izuna wouldve been aware of it and how it works. Due to his own abilities coupled with the Sharingan abilities.

He never said that, there is a reason why they eventually ended winning the clan war. Again, he was refering to the Sharingan, which is a tool, and just wasn't enough to bring the Senju down.

He lretty much did say that, I just paraphrased it. They didn't really win the clan war but I agree the war came to an end and that was because of Hashirama.

Yes, because they were traitors (which was later proved by the attempted coup) and so he could keep a closer eye on them.

No Tobirama and his policies made them like that, and Tobirama said they had a power the senju can't match. An Uchiha who is ever exposed to battle picks up new skills and arsenal so better to keep them isolated.

Like every shinobi. Hashirama says otherwise, and since Madara was left alone in the end by his clanmates, proves he was right. Tobi helped, Itachi was the main author of the massacre.

No they dont, the Uchiha get stronger because the Sharingan increases their power via exposure. Hashirama never said that, Itachi wanted the massacre but Tobi carried it out it wasn't possible for Itachi.

Anyway I'm done on this.

 

[Uchihakil]

Darn, its been ages since i've been here. Feels good, nagato wrecks though.

 

[MightGai]

What that means is if he had it before he would've used ot and Izuna wouldve been aware of it and how it works. Due to his own abilities coupled with the Sharingan abilities.



He lretty much did say that, I just paraphrased it. They didn't really win the clan war but I agree the war came to an end and that was because of Hashirama.



No Tobirama and his policies made them like that, and Tobirama said they had a power the senju can't match. An Uchiha who is ever exposed to battle picks up new skills and arsenal so better to keep them isolated.



No they dont, the Uchiha get stronger because the Sharingan increases their power via exposure. Hashirama never said that, Itachi wanted the massacre but Tobi carried it out it wasn't possible for Itachi.

Anyway I'm done on this.

-That's an assumption at best. Obito knew about hiraishin since he was a kid and got owned by it.

- Not the same due to how history played out. Unless there is evidence that Hashirama and Tobirama handled the entire Uchiha clan on their own in the war, the valid assumption is to take what Hashirama says, that it was evident that the Uchiha were inferior (paraphrasing as well).

- "An Uchiha who is ever exposed to battle picks up new skills and arsenal so better to keep them isolated." ... because eventually they will rebel, like they tried to. Also, every nin learns from experience, the Uchiha are not special in this regard.

- Sharingan get stronger due to emotions, not battle experience alone, Tobirama already explained how the Sharingan works. Any single fact that can at least be considered remotely as proof whatsoever of bold?

 

[Cahya]

That's nonsesne, if one is consistently dominant they beat the other one into submission. The only time the Senju were ever dominant was because of Hashirama and that was the period that was being referenced.



Obviously not since they weren't relevant enoughto be considered a top tier clan alongside the Senju or Uchiha. Relationship doesn't automatically give yoi the same standing or equivalence. I don't remember Nagato being described as the perfect host od there's a scan I would like to see it. As for Obito he didn't really have Hashi DNA which isn't some second rate gooey substance even if he did Hashi DNA wouldn't give him the ability to handle the Rinnegan. Anyway Obito had to control the tailed beasts, fight a Kamui user, Guy sensei and two Jins. On top of that he had to control the Jyubi's overwhelming power as it's jin while fighting the previous Lage and the alliance. I'm not surprised he was having trouble doing all of that and maintaining control of the eye. I don't know how you tried tp use that to establish a superior feat for Nagato since Nagato didn't have to do anything close to Obito's level.



Not to the level of Nagato obvioulsy.

Anyway I was merely clearing something up.

Have a good day.

No, one side will not merely beat the other side into submission if they are superior, especially if the difference isn't too high of a degree. It shouldn't be that simple. The Uzumaki didn't need to be relevant to the same degree as the Senju or Uchiha for them to have enough significance for the point I was trying to make to stand.

And Obito was in fact implanted with Hashi's cells to aid in his recovery supervised by Madara, which has been shown time and time again to greatly increase the users attributes.

It seems you're being awfully stubborn in translating what I'm trying to say, and saw my comment as intended to be a slight towards Obito, which it wasn't.

Obito mentioned how he wasn't able to implant both Rinegan eyes due to their power, before he was preforming in combat, and Nagato wielded both as a child. Obito specifically credited the Rinnegan's power being too great.

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If I can find the panel of Zetsu proclaiming Nagato to be the perfect host for the Rinnean, I'll be sure to link it for ya, I have a very good memory though