BenjerminGaye
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Uchiha hideout is a small mountain. Not mountain range. And the hideout itself was already decimated by kirin.
[VS] Itachi vs Killer Bee
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Forbidden Technique
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>Orochimaru's strongest technique
>Stronger then Orochimaru himself
>Bigger then Manda
>Continues to decimate the Uchiha Hideout even further by simply moving
Yata effortlessly deflects it. All that needs to be stated.
ComplexCity
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It's not "pretty much mountain range". It's a building that sits atop a mountain but the building itself (what the db is referencing) is no where near mountain range in size so I don't know where you pulled that from. War Arc Sakura can destroy the entire Uchiha Hide out building with a single punch but her attack still isn't close to the level of a TBB. Hydra crushing the hideout with its mass doesn't put it close to the level of TBB, just like Sakuras punch and I feel like you're trying to insinuate that Hydra can or come very close to causing TBB level damage (mountain range destruction) with its physical power alone and that's utterly ridiculous and wrong.
One TBB failing to kill Suigetsu and Hachibi is irrelevant so stop bringing it up as if it matters because you already know Suigetsus biological make up and the location is what allowed him to survive but you're wording it as if that's Bee's TBB limit to what it can destroy and that Suigetsu and Gyuki surviving automatically means Yata can survive it, which is based on nothing but a hyperbolic DB statement. You reaching real hard. Stop it.
KidGamer65
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No, it doesn't. :lol It changes it's properties to render an attack effective. Literally says nothing about any attack as it doesn't mention jack about it's limits.
You can keep arguing the same old point till kingdom comes. The amount of times a hyperbole is stated doesn't change the fact that it's hyperbole and there's literally nothing you have said or can say that will ever change that. The fact that this is your only argument is already enough for me to know you have no real argument on this case. Bias is the only reason you have to separate Yata Mirror and Totsuka from literally every other hyperbole in the Manga and Databook. Period.
And I never once separated DB and Manga. I suggest you read.
And what you are showing isn't even in the VIZ translated third databook. The only times Yata is mentioned would be on the page w/ the Susanoo entry and the end where they talk about Spirit Weapons. Thus Yata is hyped ONCE in DB and ONCE in Manga, meaning it's only hyped to be invincible twice. Not 4 times.
Except nothing about Yata Mirror's DB entry would lead you to believe it can block all attacks besides hyperbole. It states it's function, and never states that it can do that to every single attack or that it would work on every single attack. Not to mention you people don't even know exactly what "change it's properties in accordance with the attack's" properties means.
Completely irrelevant. A hyperbole is a hyperbole and it being stated more than once isn't going to make it valid. Just a nonexistent rule you pulled from thin air since no real logical argument leads to one claiming Yata and Totsuka tank and cut through everything.
-Yata's function gives us nothing that'd imply that it would actually be able to block every single attack. Changing it's properties in accordance with the attack doesn't mean that it can block and redirect any attack no matter the strength.
This argument is tantamount to me saying that since X character can absorb chakra, X character can absorb any attack in the Manga that is just raw chakra because of "how his technique works". :lol Please stop.
This argument only continues because you dismiss logic when it comes to Yata Mirror and Totsuka, and then go on about the author's word despite the author's word saying other items can do the same exact nonsense you are claiming Yata and Totsuka can do, with the poor justification of Manga stating it once, and DB stating it once.
And while we are justifying hyperbole based on the amount of times it's been said in canon. We have Zetsu hyping Amaterasu to be the strongest physical attack.
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We have DB hyping it to be as hot as the sun, relating to it's attack power, which Zetsu hypes to be the best.
I guess Amaterasu really is that OP. :lol Oh wait.......
Which is still irrelevant at the end of the day since it physically cuts through it's targets despite this nonsense claim of "It has no physical form". Thus it can be physically blocked. This "It cuts through objects w/o being physical because it is metaphysical" makes absolutely zero sense, as it being metaphysical would put it in the same category as:
-Existence
-Thoughts
-Time
Which are metaphysical but cannot physically interact with the world. If it can physically interact with the world it is physically present. Period.
Does Totsuka cut through PS? I already know you are going to say yes, based on some terrible argument though.
KidGamer65
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Kishimoto has stated it twice. Once in DB and once in Manga. A hyperbole being repeated in the databook doesn't make that hyperbole a literal fact. Not now, not ever. Orochimaru searching for it, and all this hype it's getting is meant to tell us that it is extremely powerful, not that it's literally invincible.
Not seeing how it's special ability to change it's properties has anything to do with it's durability when that could easily mean that it just changes it's physical properties to block an attack from any kind of angle.
That's because it just said on the same page above that it repels any attack. Now in the continuation and elaboration of this weapon, it merely uses the word 'attack' in general, implying that any attack is rendered ineffective. Unless of course, you're going to deny that them being on the same page doesn't mean anything lmfao.
Actually, it very much does. If a jutsu is stated to capable of shitting on anything and then 100 chapters in the manga it fails, then it was either a 1. Hyperbole or 1. Rectified. Then you ALSO remember that it was always limited in potential. If Chidori is going against a defence which is much more durable then what it can penetrate, or it's is going against a Futon, it loses by default. Kabutowari has the same limited potential. This is how it works [
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]. The hammer is required for the blade to go through, and the hammer's power relies on the user's strength, and then there's also the metal's durability not breaking. When it comes to Yata Mirror there is NO limited potential. The shield breaking because there's too much force? But it has no physical form, so that's not happening. Too much energy? Again, not happening since Yata changes every one of its properties to deflect any incoming attack and render it ineffective. Then there's the 2 Databook and 1 manga statements reinforcing this. Bias is not a reason to separate Yata and Totsuka from every other hyperbole. Nothing else in the manga has 4 hyperboles, and nothing else in the manga was made unearthly by Kishi when he chose to make them within metaphysical/astral realms.Yet you keep saying once in manga and once in DB. It's 3 times in canon as a whole.
Didn't realise that, my bad. But no, Yata is hyped 3 times in canon. And then there's the unearthly portrayal aspect that is mentioned in both the databook on several occasions and the manga. It states its function RIGHT after it states that Yata can repel any attack and is a perfect defence. You can keep saying the follow-up statement doesn't insinuate that any attack is ineffective, but you're clearly in the wrong given the context.
It being stated more then once means Kishi intends for this to be believes. Yata can change all its properties to make any incoming attack ineffective. That's more then enough reason to believe that the mechanics of it substantiate its hype. And again, it does when the statement is made right after the claim that Yata can repel any attack.
But that would apply to things like Preta and GSB. The only thing limiting it is the speed of absorption, anything else is irrelevant.
But those weapons have no unearthly portrayal, they aren't put on a different pedestal, they don't have comparable hype or statements made by someone who knows about Kaguya, etc. You clearly lack the ability to differentiate between a regular hyperbole and a weapon the author intends to put on a different level. Raikiri is just a ninjutsu with nough shape manipulation to apparently go through any defence. Kabutowari is merely a special sword with a hammer reinforcing it stated to shit on any defence. Yata Mirror is a metaphysical defence that is named a spirit weapon with the hype to be invincible because it can change every one of its own properties in accordance to the incoming attack's. There's clearly a difference here, I wouldn't be surprised if the likes of River or AZ could spot this.
Actually, you simply don't understand how Amaterasu works. Amaterasu works by intended target. The flames true potential only burns whatever the eye focuses on [
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]. When the eye focused on Hachibi, it destroyed a few of its limbs even though Hachibi survived its own TBB. When it was intended to burn the Fire Toad's stomach, it did instantly. When Itachi aimed Amaterasu at Sasuke's body and Sasuke's Katon, they all burned instantly. The only times it failed with an intended target was when it was either absorbed by Madara and Kaguya, or nullified by Obito. Enton does not have an intended target and burns extremely slowly. Even v1 Susano does not feel that shit. Yet we go back to when Ama has an intended target like the Cereberus and it one shotted him, despite him taking 0 apparent damage from FRS hitting him throughout its entire duration. And now we go back to unintended targets; the samurai, Karin, etc. They only felt the regular heat of Enton. It being as hot as the sun is clearly hyperbole, but it does stand to its hype as an offensive ability, being hot enough to revert the entire cave against Kabuto and melting through Kido's webs instantly. And then we also have the fact that.. Amaterasu was never portrayed as an unearthly attack, it was never made a spirit or etheral attack, it doesn't have the same intended 'look' that Yata and Totsuka had.Stop playing stupid. It can't be blocked unless the defence can block metaphysical attacks, something which only Yata can do. Until you give me a reason as to how PS is stopping a metaphysical attack, you can drop this argument. It can destroy things in the physical realm without being present in it, that's what being metaphysical allows it to do.
This is what an ethereal being has already done in part 1 [
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]. He went through pretty much everything, the same applies to Totsuka. It can go through anything and hit the opponent within said defence. And being metaphysical does not exist in the same plane as thoughts and time, depending on how you define metaphysical. Regardless, Doki should pretty much prove that Totsuka ignores durability and fūcks shit up.I believe that it can interact in both physical and non-physical realms. I haven't put thought yet into whether it can cut through it or not.
KidGamer65
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No, to anyone who can properly read, that small panel for Totsuka and for Yata explains how the jutsu itself works, while the above is flowery language that people love to eat up and use to make nonsense claims like "Yata tanks all". The fact that they both start off introducing the weapon despite the weapons being introduced in the first paragraph of the page only begins to prove my point.
It uses the word "attack" in general because it isn't referring to a specific attack. :lol Not sure where you got the bold from, but it's obviously false.
-Chidori going against a Fuuton does not mean that it loses by default. What in the world are you even talking about? Elemental advantage only makes it harder for an attack to overpower another. Period. DB hypes Raikiri to be capable of piercing through anything, thus it would pierce through any Fuuton attack, or rather overpower, if I didn't use my brain and separate hyperbole from literal fact.
-Raikiri going against a defense that is too strong for it to penetrate isn't a limiting factor when DB says it can pierce ANYTHING. Lol I can turn around and use the same logic on Totsuka, and no, it doesn't "phase through" it's targets to cut them. It cuts them like any other sword would cut them. Everything and anything else is unsubstantiated. Simple as that.
-Kabutowari needing a strong enough user isn't a limiting factor that proves your point, because then if someone strong enough gets it, that limitation is completely erased.
-And the "metal's durability not breaking" goes back to the same statement of it being able to smash any shield.
Bold is completely unrelated to the question you are asking, something stated over a million times now.
Yet I clearly stated TWICE in my last post, this post and the post before my last post. Once again, I suggest you read.
-Once by Zetsu.
-Once by Databook.
I'm just going to say this one more time.
It's been hyped TWICE. Not 3 times. Though using the amount of times it's been hyped to determine it's validity is ridiculous in itself.
Which is based on nothing but your own baseless opinion. Guess I should go tell everyone that Amaterasu is as strong as Kishimoto claimed it was, considering he's hyped it's attack strength more than once.
I have 3 different Wall of Fail worthy quotes from this post alone. :lol
Which is once again, irrelevant. You keep repeating the same tired and beaten argument of "it was said more than once, thus it's true", "it is an unearthly weapon, thus it has no limits" as if it's corrected. Kishimoto hyping the weapons to be unearthly means that they are on a higher pedestal than most other things point blank period. All this extra nonsense about that being a cause to take it's hyperbole as literal fact is nothing but nonsense. Who wrote the rules for "regular hyperbole" and "hyperbole meant to be taken literally"? Definitely not you, assuming such nonsense even exists.
And the bold is you still trying to hold on to things that we all know aren't true since your argument barely has any legit support.
The only ones who'd be dumb enough to agree with what you are saying here tbh would be people like River and AZ. :lol
All of this is completely irrelevant, though I applaud you for dodging the original question. Amaterasu is hyped to be the STRONGEST physical attack and it is hyped to BURN AS HOT AS THE SUN. Am I supposed to believe that nonsense? Yes or no. You say "no", it's hyperbole, but Kishimoto has hyped it's offensive power twice now. The bias is clear, and the bias is because you think a Spirit Weapon is reason enough for you to make ridiculous claims with no real evidence behind them.
Bold is completely irrelevant, and proof that your argument can be summed down to:
"It's a spirit weapon thus I can say it has no limits"
Which is a terrible argument.
This is what metaphysical things are:
Anyone with half a brain realizes how stupid this sounds, claiming that Totsuka has no physical presence in this world when it is shown to PHYSICALLY CUT THROUGH OROCHIMARU'S SNAKES. None of this "its there, but it's not there" BS you are trying to push in this argument. I'm 99% sure you pulled this out of your rear end anyway.
Lmfao. Terrible comparison considering Totsuka was shown to physically interact with it's target while Doki did not in any way, shape or form. Totsuka CUT through Orochimaru's heads physically. It didn't phase through them. This comparison is completely ridiculous and you sound silly saying "Totsuka is the same" when Totsuka was shown not to be the same.
I've brought definitions from the internet that define metaphysical things as things that exist, but aren't tangible, and the examples given are the same ones shown below. I suggest you bring proof for anything relating to this metaphysical stuff considering I've yet to see a shred of it.
"You believe" but Manga only shows one thing, it physically cutting it's targets. As for the rest, whether you want to claim it or not or whether you've thought it through doesn't matter since your argument pretty much says that Totsuka bypasses Susanoo and seals Edo Madara. :lol
TRE MERCER
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It was poweful enough to erase and create a new space and time. KG had no problem agreeing with Zetsu on this one.
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KidGamer65
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Yes, because being hyped to destroy the dimension and being hyped block all things astral, physical and without any limits to boot are the same thing.
TRE MERCER, please get off my nuts.
Doesn't seem that farfetched. Hagoromo created things from nothingness with COAT so its not hard to believe the first and original weilder of all chakra could create something like that, especially considering she's not even human in the first place.
TRE MERCER
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Why are you mad? You usually back everything you say up with Manga facts(So you claim) now your just going on another one of your rants. Ill be waiting for Manda scans of you proving your point.
Hagoromo completely dubunked that creating Ninjutsu thing himself not sure why you even brung that up. So you believe Kaguya is BPL? I never disagreed or agreed with Zetsu i was pointing out how he's only siding with Zetsu when it benefits his arguments.
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Forbidden Technique
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I was under the impression that a mountain range is the range of a single mountain, not a whole line of related mountains. That was my misunderstanding of the term. If I was insinuating that Hydra's physical strength equates to a TBB, I would of outright said so. My point was that Hydra is obviously extremely strong (backed up by it's mass), yet Yata Mirror lived up to it's hype and deflected it with zero issue. Instead of Susano'o being pushed backwards, Yata instantly nullified the attack/force and deflected it away completely. Again, here we have an obviously extremely strong attack that lost all of it's meaning in front of Yata.
Kishimoto on Yata Mirror:
Databook:
>Matchless sacred weapon
>Absolute perfect defense
>Can repel any attack
>A gods power
>All forms of attack lose their meaning
>Can change every one of it's properties, in order to render every attack ineffective
Manga:
>Supernatural item
>Can turn back any attack
>Makes Itachi invincible (with Totsuka)
Feats:
Rendered every single attack that opposed it ineffective, and reflected it. Lived up to it's hype and mechanics.
Kishimoto on the Hachibi's TBB:
>Not strong enough to kill Suegetsu while merged with a water source
>Not strong enough to kill Hachibi Mode Bee (despite all of the attacks that injured him)
LuckyMan's Verdict:
>Despite everything that was shown and stated about both, Kishimoto was definitely intending to put the defenses of Suegetsu (while using Suiton: Tate Eboshi) and the Hachibi above Yata Mirror. Stating otherwise is a hard reach and I'm definitely not a lunatic.
Lmao. I don't have any interest in discussing this with you. You're almost always incapable of applying any common sense and logic into your reasoning - which was made evident once again when you instantly hopped on the whole 2 paper bombs cracking Yata Mirror nonsense. You can believe whatever you want to believe - which is always something against Itachi. The fact remains that there is a lot more pointing towards Yata Mirror taking on a TBB, while all you have to say is that Yata is nothing but hyperbole. Whatever bruh.
You basically just reiterated what I've been saying the entire time with the bold.
No, Yata has the ability to alter it's very own attributes according to the attributes of the opposing attack in order to render it useless. This is why it can effectively defend against all types of attacks - Material, Astral, Ninjutsu, or Physical. It's all effectively countered. No other form of defense can do this. So as I stated, it has it's level of durability + the added ability to change it's attributes to nullify an attack.
KidGamer65
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But how does that aid in the actual "can it survive the attack" aspect? That'd only broaden the scope of attack that it can actually block, not the strength. Unless this is something you've also stated, cause then I'd agree.
Forbidden Technique
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Look at it like this. If Hydra rammed into susano'o that wasn't weilding Yata Mirror, wouldn't you find it very safe to say that it would of at the very least push susano'o backwards? The same applies with every form of defense, it can block an attack with durability alone, but can't nullify it like Yata Mirror does. Instead of Susano'o being pushed backwards due to the force, Yata Mirror nullified the attack completely and deflected it right back at Hydra.
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Ordinary defenses just defend. Yata Mirror defends and renders an attack useless. All at the same time.
Lol. If you read a paragraph which starts off with "it destroys any defence" and then end the paragraph with "the defence is destroyed molecularly leaving no room for stopping the attack" then the context in which it is written implies that "the defence' falls into the category of "any defence." This should be rather simple for you, I know your reading comprehension is far above this.
You're wrong here. The Raikiri is only as strong as the Shape Manipulation in Kakashi's case. Futon dissipates Raiton, and the only time Raiton does not dissipate is when there's not enough Futon to counter the said amount of Raiton. If Hiruzen were to use his Futon stream against Raikiri then the Raikiri would disappear just because of how the Futon works against the Raiton. There's clearly limit to something which is dependant on chakra control and chakra amount. There's no potential limit for Yata that you can think of.
I am not denying what the Databook stated. I am simply saying that it was never capable of holding regardless of Raikiri having failed in canon or not, just because the potential of it is not infinite. Totsuka has no physical form, your only argument that was viable was "no real" physical form, but that was a mistranslation so you're back to nothing.
But nothing has omnipotence in NV, so that limit will always be present.
Not sure how too much energy is unrelated to a defence changing every one of its properties to render any incoming attack ineffective.
2 times if you don't take into account the statement made on the same page in the databook. Claiming it's a hyperbole when it has the repetitiveness of the author's word and has the portrayal of an unearthly (is outright stated to be supernatural now that I think about it lmao) is what's actually ridiculous here.
Yes, because Kishi is going to repeat something a couple of times to deceive the readers of the manga. You can say it's a hyperbole when he says it once because he's trying to make something appear stronger then it actually is. If he says some random jutsu is the speed of light then he intends for the reader to believe it's very fast, if he says some random jutsu is piercing anything then he intends for the reader to believe it has extreme penetrative capabilities. When he outright claims an item is supernatural and invincible, calls them spirit weapons and gives them tremendous hype merely by making them exist wit no form.
That's nice to know, doesn't change anything though.
@bold, that's rather contradicting given you keep screaming hyperbole when your claim that it is a hyperbole is unsubstantiated in the first place. If you want to get into the intricacies of this, then you have nothing to back up your point about this being a hyperbole. Raikiri failed so it was a hyperbole, Kabutowari is limited by itself, Amaterasu has never been said to shit on any defence. Now we come to Yata. Please prove that this is a hyperbole if you want to play the "rules" card, since who wrote the rules of what is and what isn't a hyperbole within another person's manga? You sure as hell didn't.
@underlined, lmfao. "That we all" is to say the 'logical debaturs of NB who blindly follow each other's opinions on anything'? I can state somebody wins something in a VS thread and I'll have 10 people just follow what I said and change the difficulty the smallest amount they can. Until somebody decides to actually try and argue, using the argument that he read on the last thread. So we go into a cycle of recycled arguments. Thus the notion that 'everyone' agrees with your opinion really means shit, because the VS section is a circle jerk which would rather claim hyperbole then give someone a large power-up which would seem logical given the hype and portrayal the author administered. I'm pretty sure many others would agree, but I'm not going to list names since you probably do know who those people are.
I'll agree and disagree here. I believe Amaterasu being as hot as the sun is clearly a hyperbole, and it was only stated once. Amaterasu is stated to be the strongest offensive Doryoku though [
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It's portrayal goes far beyond it merely being a spirit weapon, but I'm guessing you already know that if you read the manga.
Not necessarily. I'm pretty sure metaphysical can refer to things which transcend the physical realm. Otherwise we can just use non-physical, ethereal or supernatural since that's what they are referred to. I mean, why would he say it can protect against Astral bodies when it's a part of the physical realm. You really need to throw out logic and start accepting what the author is conveying and emphasising here. Whether you want to accept it or not is really irrelevant though, the author stated this around 3 or 4 times, you denying it is you denying canon. Keep it up though, Kishi stating it's not physical ain't shit because KG stated it's physical lmfao.
Which is why Doki ain't got hype or portrayal. He isn't shit, the attack is merely spiritual energy which drains physical energy. Totsuka is still a spiritual sword though, and it can interact with the physical realm as shown in the manga. So regardless of how you look at it, it's a sword with no form that can affect things in the physical realm. The only thing one can even attempt to argue is that Totsuka's form can be altered from spiritual to physical at will.
The word really wasn't something I intended to stress upon. I was trying to find an alternative for non-physical, which is what Totsuka and Yata are continuously referred to in canon. And once again, it can interact on the physical realm without a physical form. It's beyond the laws of nature, hence it is referred to as SUPERNATURAL.
Supernatural: Attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.
Hachibis TBB was in a wave form when it hit Suigetsu and not the standard sphere that causes much more damage and you clearly ignored when I said the reason Suigetsu survived was because his unique biological makeup and location but you had no more legs to stand on so you twisted my point in an effort to find something to stand on and make your argument sound better, as if I'm implying Suigetsu w/ Tate Eboshi > Yata Mirror in durability.
Then again, you have no legs to stand on so you referenced Hachibi getting injured by various other attacks (all of which are weaker than TBB) which is completely irrelevant because those attacks aren't TBB.
Then stop replying nigga! I cant argue by myself. You finding every little thing you can to point out and make it seem like my whole argument is wrong, like mentioning me liking the paper bombs post. It was funny and came out of no where so yes, I liked it, just like I liked Dr. Proofs post on Yata reflecting everything except Gaaras sand, they were funny. Good to see you pointing out irrelevant crap like that because now I know you have nothing left to argue but repeat the same nonsense that several people have crushed already.
Whats funny is that this whole time you've been arguing Yata can tank a single TBB, but what about 4? Can it tank 4 TBB simultaneously? You do know Bee can shoot 4 at once, no? You don't even need to discuss this any further with me, just answer that last question. Yes or No. Thats all I want you to reply to because even if I believed Yata can tank 1 TBB its not tanking 4 TBB, so the outcome of this fight doesn't change when it all boils down but I want to see what you think anyway.