[VS] Itachi vs Killer Bee
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Omar19992010
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If we wanted to use every hyperbole in the Manga as fact then Madara is a universe buster, Temari can blow away the universe, Amaterasu is as hot as the sun and Kabuotwari can bust a Bijuu Perfect Susano'o. :lol
Actually, once in the manga and 2 times in the Databook. The explanation of how it works still suggests that any attack is rendered ineffective, so that stands. That's a total of 3 times in canon.
@bold, but Kishi's word, on multiple occasions, is. Lack of feats really doesn't mean anything on any place other then NB. People excessively care for 'feats', but the author's word holds just as much, if not more weight. Sure, if it was stated once I'd say hyperbole too. But the repetitiveness of it contradicts the claim of it being an exaggeration, so I'll go with the author's word since he's obviously attempted to make these weapons unearthly when he chose to make them ethereal and claiming its defence is not limited to astral attacks (thus it really would be invincible).
That's because everything else only has this statement once or twice, but then none of those abilities or items actually give a reason as to why it can shit on any defence/tank any attack. Yata is outright stated to change all of its properties to render any attack ineffective. Saying something like Kabutowari or Chidori are invincible wouldn't make sense because the mechanics behind those attacks contradicts the 'hyperbole' being made (once).
By cut down any enemy, it's not supposed to suggest shitting on any defence physically. It's supposed to assume that Totsuka bypasses any defence because it's not physical - but metaphysical. It can inflict physical damage without being physically present, given it has no physical form as stated about 3 times. But of course, you're going to deny this too because you'd rather apply logic in a manga then listen to what the author has to say.
The only thing that I could possibly see being exempt is the Juubi or Kaguya, and that's only because they are the origins of chakra and it's more then likely that they/she created these weapons, and the weapon would logically not have more power then its creator.
Forbidden Technique
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As I said, it shouldn't be taken too literally, but with reason. You can't 100% disregard Kishi's multiple statements that it's invincible, and say it means absolutely nothing. The difference between Yata Mirror and every other hype comparison people are using to discredit it, is that it was stated numerous times by both the manga and databook. Unlike the others, Kishi reiterated it, and then reiterated it again. Even Orochimaru has been searching for it his entire life. Clearly the hype given to these weapons are meant to hold much more weight then the hyperbole statements given to Temari, Kabutowari, etc.
I have no idea what you mean by 'flavor text'.
Pretty much. I don't see why it shouldn't. I've seen you guys, with good reason, at the very least state that it's above V4 susano'o in terms of durability. And that's only the durability aspect of it. Unlike all other forms of defenses, Yata Mirror doesn't just have a set level of durability. It also has the ability to change it's attributes according to the attack to render it useless. So at the very least you already agree that it's above V4 susano'o in terms of durability alone, plus it's special ability that adds to it's defensive capability. What other defenses and attacks, barring god tier can trump that?
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KidGamer65
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No, the explanation of how it works says that it changes it's properties to render attacks ineffective. Never says that it can do that to every single attack.
Except Kishimoto's hyperbolic word isn't meant to be taken as literal fact. Period. It being stated once in the Manga and once in the DB doesn't automatically make it evolve from hyperbole to literal fact. Your whole argument is "it was said more than once (twice :lol) so it must be true" even though that line of thinking is hilariously ridiculous and cannot and should not be taken seriously.
Yata Mirror gives no reason why it can turn back any attack. It only says that it changes it's properties to render an attack effective. Mentions nothing that'd lead you to believe that it can turn back any attack. These weapons are easily the most wanked things in any Naruto forum. You complain about people disregarding them due to lack of feats, but then you use that same lack of feats to try and make hyperbole fact based on "author's word" when anyone who can read can pick out the literal fact from the obvious hyperbole, and once you've done that as I know you can do that, you present this weak cop out argument, telling me that Yata is true because "it was stated more than once".
Chidori and Kabutowari's mechanics don't contradict their hype. They are attacks, attacks deal damage, hype says that the damage dealt is so great that no defense can block it. Period.
Then we have Totsuka. I die a little inside every time I see someone claim they aren't physically present when Zetsu states that they have it has no real physical form. Keywords being "NO REAL". Meaning Totsuka doesn't have an actual physical shape of it's own, doesn't change the fact that the object is obviously present in the physical word, and thus can be blocked by physical shields just as it can cut through physically present beings and objects. What's worse is that you completely assumed everything in this part of your post, when DB says one thing and only one thing "cut down all enemies". Anything else is unsubstantiated extra stuff added since you know that Totsuka being powerful enough to cut through anything is a load of crap.
And I liked how you dodged the question.
Lol no. Nothing even begins to imply that they are the weapons creators nor can you claim that it repels all attacks because Kishi said so, but then turn around and say that it can't block the Juubi or Kaguya's attacks. At the end of the day, Kaguya is an alien who obtained the origin of chakra. How does that put her above a supernatural spirit shield that is stated to be a God's power and can turn back any attack no matter what kind?
Read again. It says change every one of its properties.. with the attributes of the attack, rendering the attack ineffective. Thus it means any attack given the context it is in.
Except that claiming it's hyperbole is completely retarded. 3 times in canon is not hyperbole, not even close. And wait, here's the 4th
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Being portrayed as an unearthly object speaks volumes, Kishi doesn't want it to be considered in the same way other defences are. And again, said 4 times in canon. Stop trying to separate DB and manga, because at the end of the day they are both canon.
The name could be the reason. It changes its attributes in order to deflect any attack. That's all that we need to understand that the mechanics behind it is viable. If it states that it tanks any attack by being an unmovable or extremely dense defence then it's obviously limited. In the same way, Chidori's sharpness and the Kabutowari's momentum are clearly limiting factors for their potential to live up to their hype.
Terrible attempt to downplay Yata given they would logically be limited, given they aren't portrayed as unearthly in the same way Yata and Totsuka are, given they don't have 4 canon repetitions supporting them.
Lol, what? There's 3 instances of it being stated to possess no physical form, and then the side note which Kishi put in for an OBVIOUS reason; to explain what spirit weapons are. Yet when he says they have no physical form you once again know best and deny it. Also, the VIZ translation is no physical form lmfao [
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], so there goes another one of your arguments. Here's Kishi making a section JUST to say that spirit weapons have no form [
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]. Then there's like 2 more occasions of it being referred to as a spirit weapon, so no, it definitely has no physical form.Restate your question then, I must've missed it. Then I'll argue that Yata survives, I was simply suggesting that it's the only possible thing I'd exempt in the case somebody wants to argue that it was created via COAT.
Forbidden Technique
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Highly doubt those are cracks. They seem more like the outline of rocks/boulders... We can't even see the body of susano'o through Yata like we normally can in that scan, due to the smoke caused by the explosion. We see no cracks
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after Yata repelled the second attack, packing much more explosive tags then the first one where you see "cracks".Second, are these all "
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" we see all over Susano'o that hasn't even been touched?
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BenjerminGaye
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Forbidden Technique
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Tbh... Even ignoring all the hype, Totsuka and Yata have an impressive feat. The two combined absolutely zero-diffed Orochimaru's strongest technique. An S-Rank technique, from a legendary sannin that devoted his entire life at discovering foribidden jutsu.
But of course, this probably means absolutely nothing.
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But of course, this probably means absolutely nothing.
Lord Tywin
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We don't see kind of rocks with that kind of shape anywhere near Itachi
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rest of the susanoo is irrelevant as everytime we've seen the fully formed yata mirror, it has looked solid.
Forbidden Technique
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But you kind off do though, if you look closely. I don't know why you expect for Kishi to draw every single individual rock/boulder in the same exact position in every single scan.
It's only irrelevant to you because it's debunks your entire claim. Everytime we see susano'o is appears to be solid as well. What we're seeing is the outline of rocks behind it in both scans. Yata took zero damage from Orochimaru's most powerful technique, but somehow the output of damage from 2 paper bombs exceeds it? Doesn't make any sense to begin with.
TheAncientCenturion
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Yata Mirror, right here, seems pretty transparent to me [
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]. Not to mention right after we see that page, we can see Itachi's right behind piled up debris [
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-
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]. The idea that paper tags are cracking or doing any significant damage to a weapon that was just given the praise it was is sorta. . I don't see that ever being a thing. Hype or no hype, paper tags would never scratch it.
Lord Tywin
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Not necessarily. Just that the way those lines are drawn they seem to me that they're on the Mirror.
I said Susanoo is irrelevant because Itachi's weapons weren't originally his. Susanoo in Itachi's case has shown with cracks over it, just like you posted the scan. Fully formed Yata hasn't. Not until what I highlighted. And what really did those snakes do exactly? They just hit Yata, and were cut off. The damage done by them is inferior to the paper bombs.
Lord Tywin
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We've seen Yata
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being transparent. I doubt transparency has anything much to do with it.
Forbidden Technique
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Bruh, just use common sense... you're claiming that 2 paper tags cracked Yata Mirror.
Itachi's susano'o does
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. What you're seeing
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is all the outline of rocks/boulders behind Itachi. Even look at Totsuka Blade... It's the same thing. That completely debunks your whole claim. What you highlighted are the outline of the rocks behind Itachi. The strength of those colossal snake heads would obviously produce more output of damage then 2 paper tag explosions, which Sakura took with no significant damage.
TheAncientCenturion
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Except, we've seen it can be. And it was in the scan that's mentioned, considering we blatently see a chunk of rubble behind Yata and Itachi.
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Almost every crack you see there is, more or less, formed in a geometric shape and seems conected more then independent cracks.
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Not only doesn't it make sense for Itachi to use a shield that would be weaker than his normal Susano'o to avoid Sasuke's attack, but from a literary standpoint to have what was considered a supernatural tool that, when with Totsuka, made Itachi near unbeatable, to be cracked. Authors can have characters relay incorrect or faulty information, even lie, to get points across. But the fact that no other statements were addressing the damage "done" to Yata doesn't correspond with that.
Agreed but
Orochimarus strongest technique (obviously its Edo Tensei, not this, but this what I'll refer to) is nothing to a TBB. The Hydra only showed physical attacks which I'm sure were very powerful, but still not enough to blow up a mountain like TBB. It being S-Rank doesn't make Yatas hype more valid either. Ranks are the difficulty it requires to preform, not the power of the technique.
Lord Tywin
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Some good points. Imma concede for the time being.
Forbidden Technique
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I'm pretty sure that 8 Branches is stronger then Orochimaru's incomplete ET at that time. It makes sense, and this is what Kishi said so I'll take it as fact. The DB also say's that the serpent crushes the Uchiha Hideout (pretty much a mountain range) by simply slithering on it. It carries that much mass, which only means the strength of it's physical attack must be extremely strong. Yet Yata Mirror completely deflected it without any issue. TBB blowing up a mountain means nothing, when we already saw it's limitation. It failed to kill Suegetsu, and the Hachibi itself. Meanwhile, we haven't seen Yata Mirrors limitation; which shouldn't by any manga/DB supported means be outdone by Suegetsu and the Hachibi.