Itachi Uchiha

[Pumpkin Ninja]

I get where you're coming from, but I strongly disagree with some things.

First of all, Madara does not have Tsukuyomi, and neither does Sasuke. This has been discussed/debunked several times in the past. I can't post scans/explanation atm, but use the search bar and do your research, you can conclude that Tsukuyomi isn't a requirement to unlock Susano'o (the whole argument was based around that).

Second, Itachi was portrayed in the manga at a level that is arguably higher than any other character in certain respects. He received a superior portrayal to many in terms of "power" (though he was limited by sickness, etc,) and arguably the highest portrayal in terms of character (numerous parallels with Shinto mythology, for example). In no way is he lacking in that department.

I think the point you're trying to make is less about portrayal, and more about understanding a character's limits, and not overating/underrating them.

This is why you are one of the few logical Itachi fans. Every shitty Itachi fan *cough*majority of IB *cough* should learn from this guy. Also [/thread].

 

[Trúth]

I believe that Itachi Uchiha is one of the strongest characters in theory only, and this is why.

Genjutsu has literally no logic because all it takes is one look in your opponent's eye (which is basically the start of the match) to defeat him/her. Now, obviously you can break out of genjutsu but I'm specifically talking about Itachi's tsukuyomi because you need sharingan to break out of this.

However, I do not believe that Masashi Kishimoto portrayed Itachi as even top 5 material.

Going by everything presented to us as facts in the manga we should assume:

Madara has Tsukyomi and Amaterasu, (and since Itachi had no reason to lie this must be true) because he had Susano'o. And if this were the case that would mean Hashirama (before death) has no counter to Madara since Madara has Tsukuyomi, and Hashirama is therefore weaker than Hashirama. However, it was clearly portrayed that Hashirama was stronger which concludes we cannot use logic.
Even if we assume that what you believe Itachi said was true this would still be amazingly flawed. Madara lost with a the help of the nine tails. It isn't debatable who was stronger. Anyway you're entire premise was based on a misconception. Once Itachi awoke powers in both eyes, Susanoo was born. Did you miss the chapter where Kakashi used PS despite having neither Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu?

Now if we assume that Madara does not have the two jutsu because of feats then it is not that irrational to assume that BZ's hype on Yata Mirror is false as well especially since it lacked in feats or that Hashirama is stronger than Hiruzen (as he was clearly portrayed to be).
Whole premise is ridiculous. You based it on your flawed logic about Madara and that's enough to make it wrong though there is more.
Now, my point is kids, that it doesn't matter what Jutsu that person has in his/her arsenal, (unless it is a VS thread where it is meant to be in theory only) you need to see how that character was portrayed in terms of strength.

This is hilarious. Discounting Jutsu and etc. to make Itachi seem weaker, because his jutsu makes him stronger than you want?

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[QdonEms]

Indeed he does....indeed he does.

 

[UltimateDeadpool]

Reading comprehension is important. Kakashi did not resist his spirit was simply not broken. In other words he didn't die. He did however fall into a coma and needed Tsunade level healing just to wake up.

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Kakashi's spirit wasn't broken because he resisted, he has a strong spirit.

 

[Trúth]

Kakashi's spirit wasn't broken because he resisted.

This is a joke right? I see nowhere that indicates he resisted. He was raped in Tsukuyomi and when he came out he fell into a coma. The only thing this speaks for is Kakashi's amazing life force, which was able to help him handle PS despite having only MS.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

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I should have made it more clear that one of my points was that just because some things were presented as facts, doesn't make it true. My fault... although I think I was right in that aspect but thanks for actually answering this time.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Even if we assume that what you believe Itachi said was true this would still be amazingly flawed. Madara lost with a the help of the nine tails. It isn't debatable who was stronger. Anyway you're entire premise was based on a misconception. Once Itachi awoke powers in both eyes, Susanoo was born. Did you miss the chapter where Kakashi used PS despite having neither Tsukuyomi or Amaterasu?

EDIT: Also, it wasn't "amazingly flawed" if Madara had Tsukyomi because Hashirama has no counter for it and if we approved the hype of that jutsu Hashirama should have lost.

 

[Trúth]

EDIT: Also, it wasn't "amazingly flawed" if Madara had Tsukyomi because Hashirama has no counter for it and if we approved the hype of that jutsu Hashirama should have lost.

He doesn't need a counter for Tsukuyomi. He knows not to look in his eyes, and can fight at a large enough scale that he doesn't need to.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

He doesn't need a counter for Tsukuyomi. He knows not to look in his eyes, and can fight at a large enough scale that he doesn't need to.

So you agree Hashirama won't get caught in Itachi's genjutsu based on what you said?

 

[Trúth]

So you agree Hashirama won't get caught in Itachi's genjutsu based on what you said?

This thread isn't about Itachi vs. Hashirama. You want a debate go make it in the vs. section.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

This thread isn't about Itachi vs. Hashirama. You want a debate go make it in the vs. section.

It was a question... I just want to see if people understand portrayal.

EDIT: I screwed up with what I just typed.

 

[Trúth]

It was a question... I just want to see if people understand that people understand portrayal.

Your question forces a debate, something I'm not interested in.

 

[Pumpkin Ninja]

Your question forces a debate, something I'm not interested in.

Fair enough.