[Theory] Itachi did not kill the Uchiha Clan

siyo

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If this is true. How will Sasuke react?
Sasuke would hate Konoha even more.

notice how danzo said to tobi
that they havent seen each other since the uchiha massacre



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Great scan, + rep.

Extremely plausible, I think this is what's going to happen.

Sasuke wants to hear "The Truth" from Itachi, it just so happens that we haven't actually heard about the actual events of the massacre from Itachi's own lips. He must be hiding something, and since we know Tobi fabrcated his tale somewhat, he probably lied or seriously minimized his actual involvement.

After all, Itachi wanted to die knowing that Sasuke had killed the supposed killer of the entire clan. He wouldn't have wanted Sasuke to know that he had killed his own brother for nothing. Also, Tobi wants Sasuke for some reason (to sync with Gedo?) and is purposely keeping him on a revenge-quest. Tobi telling the truth (if he killed the entire clan) wouldn't have achieved this with Sasuke.

We also know that Itachi may have been scared from all the killing/death in the Third Nin War, how could he kill his entire clan? Tobi must have done a majority of th ekillings if not all of them (with Danzo maybe since we know Tobi and Danzo at least saw each other during the masacre).

Great theory :)

Thx.

Tobi's reason for influencing Sasuke and giving him all these power ups are still unknown.He's a notorious liar and a master manipulator so we can't always believe what he says. The two things we do know are:

1. Tobi said to Zetzu he wanted Sasuke to replace Nagato.Both as pawn and to synch him to Gedo mazo.

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The likely scenario here is the awakening of the rinnegan, although the plan is very risky.

2.Tobi expect Sasuke and Naruto to fight each other. I assume this will be very significant to his plans since Naruto is merely a pawn.
 

ronus

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Haha.. This is quite funny..
Now the Uchiha Clan was not destroyed or killed by Itachi..
Hmmm
Its taking a lot of time to digest it..
BTW You have watched and read, Anime/manga, Right???

Itachi did obey the elders and stopped Uchiha clan from taking any actions against Leaf Village, after all it was his mission.
Why would he make Sasuke feel like crap and tell lie to him about his actions??? Itachi loved his Small Bro.

Further Danzo and Tobi(who helped Itachi) both knew that Itachi had indeed followed his heroic mission. He did that for his village.

You are just Speculating things and Bending them..
 

leafeater

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I don't know if Itachi killed part of the clan with Tobi or not to be quite honest. I don't think Danzou did a thing that was hands on though. That's definitely not his style unless forced to. Just look at him in his limited actions. As a genin/chuunin froze up as volunteering to be the sacrifice when Hiruzen spoke up. Hid with ANBU ROOT during Nagato's invasion of Konoha to be in position for Hokage afterwards. Used Fu and Torune to fight Tobi rather than working with them. Took Karin hostage. These aren't the actions of a man of likes to get his hands dirty. Hell, that's partly why he founded ROOT in the first place.

I definitely believe that we don't know the whole truth about that night; thus, I agree with you on that point. I also agree that there's significance in Itachi basically telling Naruto to shut up about the Uchiha massacre (when ET Itachi and ET Nagato met KM Naruto and Bee) and just recently making Sasuke question what he accepts as "true" as Sasuke chased him through the trees on the way to Kabuto.

Further, if you do go back and read about what's been revealed, Kishi has done so in a way that it's never definitive, given the source is Tobi (ultimate liar and manipulator of the Narutoverse) and how it's propagated. It's basically what Tobi said, and people aside from Itachi confirming (Danzou seemingly does, but not definitively)/going along with to some degree (Naruto, Sasuke without a second thought - not sure how much Kakashi has accepted Tobi's words) Tobi's statement. I think that it's such a shocking "truth" with so much redemption behind it even if it is still Itachi killing, not murdering, his clan that people (e.g. Naruto, Sasuke) are easy to accept it who care about the two people involved, Sasuke and/or Itachi.

Granted, Kakashi cares, but he's much wiser, experienced, not so led by emotion, etc. that I think he's the only one who's heard "the truth" that hasn't decided if it's actually true, and he was the only one to not immediately accept "the truth" of Tobi's words. Further, he warned against propagating them. However, that's just speculation and possibly a bit off-topic. That's off the top of the head, so I could be missing someone like Kabuto. Kabuto may know something about the Uchiha massacre and try to screw with Sasuke and Itachi by starting to speak of that night if he gets more desperate (already tried to recruit Sasuke to backstab Itachi and join him..., kinda weak).

Essentially, this is all just fruit from a poisoned tree to use legal jargon, so it would be thrown out as testimony in court or the judge would at least instruct the jury on how to weight the information at the very least. This is a concept at least Kakashi understands.... Now, if it's verified, then it could be permissible, but that kind of makes me wonder if Tobi had Sasuke kill Danzou not just to improve his MS, satisfy some of his vengeance for Itachi, but to silence Danzou as a source of truth. Itachi was dead, Danzou would be dead by plan, and soon it would just be Tobi's word (he didn't foresee Kabuto and IWR obviously, let alone Sasuke meeting ET Itachi who broke his binding). After all, Danzou was not the type of ninja to talk about past missions (he condemned Itachi for thinking he even did so), so him fighting Sasuke was not much risk. Particularly given Sasuke's weak genjutsu (even Tsukiyomi), blind rage, and being lost in the darkness, amongst other factors. Sasuke could've still done plenty of damage to Konoha especially with Naruto, Kakashi, Danzou all gone and Tsunade in a coma. Sure, Nagato basically laid it to waste, but Sasuke could've potentially made the place unrecoverable and dealt with the two remaining elders along with a comatose Tsunade.

Danzou, however, was a potential information spout. Further, Sasuke accomplished virtually nothing at the Kage Summit as far as facing the 5 Kage. Wow, the Raikage lost his left hand for being a moron lost in passion of the battle and willingly plunging his arm into Sasuke's blaze release Ameratsu. As well, he almost died by Onooki's dust release if not for Tobi. Thus, I don't buy that Tobi actually hoped that Sasuke would accomplish anything at the Kage Summit except build up his MS, which he could've done against Konoha. Tobi could've shown up to declare war without Sasuke's sideshow, and it would have had the same impact. That's my view. Danzou, however, was a unique potential threat to Tobi's control over Sasuke if for some reason he said something, so he had Sasuke deal with him at a time when Sasuke would listen to virtually no one. Speculation of course. :)

My apologies, your OP led to my thinking a little too much (I'm actually holding back now, in part because I finished my cereal, lol. :)), hence the length. Some times, the simplest stated ideas can form the basis for a much larger set of sophisticated ideas. I believe your OP and title, "Itachi did not kill the Uchiha Clan" perform that role elegantly for which I laud you. I think the importance of this post will grow in time when Itachi finally reveals "the truth" according to Itachi (sounds like a damn gospel at church, lol). Sure a lot of people on the forums can say, and have said that they felt the same belief as you did but didn't feel like typing it out, and that may or may not be. However, given that you put forward the time and effort in an effective manner, you are the publisher of this idea, which makes what you did novel while the rest of us are merely reviewers... Cheers! :izuna:

Peace
 

Avani

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I don't know if Itachi killed part of the clan with Tobi or not to be quite honest. I don't think Danzou did a thing that was hands on though. That's definitely not his style unless forced to. Just look at him in his limited actions. As a genin/chuunin froze up as volunteering to be the sacrifice when Hiruzen spoke up. Hid with ANBU ROOT during Nagato's invasion of Konoha to be in position for Hokage afterwards. Used Fu and Torune to fight Tobi rather than working with them. Took Karin hostage. These aren't the actions of a man of likes to get his hands dirty. Hell, that's partly why he founded ROOT in the first place.

I definitely believe that we don't know the whole truth about that night; thus, I agree with you on that point. I also agree that there's significance in Itachi basically telling Naruto to shut up about the Uchiha massacre (when ET Itachi and ET Nagato met KM Naruto and Bee) and just recently making Sasuke question what he accepts as "true" as Sasuke chased him through the trees on the way to Kabuto.

Further, if you do go back and read about what's been revealed, Kishi has done so in a way that it's never definitive, given the source is Tobi (ultimate liar and manipulator of the Narutoverse) and how it's propagated. It's basically what Tobi said, and people aside from Itachi confirming (Danzou seemingly does, but not definitively)/going along with to some degree (Naruto, Sasuke without a second thought - not sure how much Kakashi has accepted Tobi's words) Tobi's statement. I think that it's such a shocking "truth" with so much redemption behind it even if it is still Itachi killing, not murdering, his clan that people (e.g. Naruto, Sasuke) are easy to accept it who care about the two people involved, Sasuke and/or Itachi.

Granted, Kakashi cares, but he's much wiser, experienced, not so led by emotion, etc. that I think he's the only one who's heard "the truth" that hasn't decided if it's actually true, and he was the only one to not immediately accept "the truth" of Tobi's words. Further, he warned against propagating them. However, that's just speculation and possibly a bit off-topic. That's off the top of the head, so I could be missing someone like Kabuto. Kabuto may know something about the Uchiha massacre and try to screw with Sasuke and Itachi by starting to speak of that night if he gets more desperate (already tried to recruit Sasuke to backstab Itachi and join him..., kinda weak).

Essentially, this is all just fruit from a poisoned tree to use legal jargon, so it would be thrown out as testimony in court or the judge would at least instruct the jury on how to weight the information at the very least. This is a concept at least Kakashi understands.... Now, if it's verified, then it could be permissible, but that kind of makes me wonder if Tobi had Sasuke kill Danzou not just to improve his MS, satisfy some of his vengeance for Itachi, but to silence Danzou as a source of truth. Itachi was dead, Danzou would be dead by plan, and soon it would just be Tobi's word (he didn't foresee Kabuto and IWR obviously, let alone Sasuke meeting ET Itachi who broke his binding). After all, Danzou was not the type of ninja to talk about past missions (he condemned Itachi for thinking he even did so), so him fighting Sasuke was not much risk. Particularly given Sasuke's weak genjutsu (even Tsukiyomi), blind rage, and being lost in the darkness, amongst other factors. Sasuke could've still done plenty of damage to Konoha especially with Naruto, Kakashi, Danzou all gone and Tsunade in a coma. Sure, Nagato basically laid it to waste, but Sasuke could've potentially made the place unrecoverable and dealt with the two remaining elders along with a comatose Tsunade.

Danzou, however, was a potential information spout. Further, Sasuke accomplished virtually nothing at the Kage Summit as far as facing the 5 Kage. Wow, the Raikage lost his left hand for being a moron lost in passion of the battle and willingly plunging his arm into Sasuke's blaze release Ameratsu. As well, he almost died by Onooki's dust release if not for Tobi. Thus, I don't buy that Tobi actually hoped that Sasuke would accomplish anything at the Kage Summit except build up his MS, which he could've done against Konoha. Tobi could've shown up to declare war without Sasuke's sideshow, and it would have had the same impact. That's my view. Danzou, however, was a unique potential threat to Tobi's control over Sasuke if for some reason he said something, so he had Sasuke deal with him at a time when Sasuke would listen to virtually no one. Speculation of course. :)

My apologies, your OP led to my thinking a little too much (I'm actually holding back now, in part because I finished my cereal, lol. :)), hence the length. Some times, the simplest stated ideas can form the basis for a much larger set of sophisticated ideas. I believe your OP and title, "Itachi did not kill the Uchiha Clan" perform that role elegantly for which I laud you. I think the importance of this post will grow in time when Itachi finally reveals "the truth" according to Itachi (sounds like a damn gospel at church, lol). Sure a lot of people on the forums can say, and have said that they felt the same belief as you did but didn't feel like typing it out, and that may or may not be. However, given that you put forward the time and effort in an effective manner, you are the publisher of this idea, which makes what you did novel while the rest of us are merely reviewers... Cheers! :izuna:

Peace
Yay for the power of cereal! Sir, you should be repped for this delightful read. Unfortunately I cannot do so at this time. You will receive it as soon as I will be able to.
 
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Mewmew97

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That's what I've been thinking too , it just that one scene from the masacre is really bugging me .....just take a look at at 1:24 .I don't know if the shadow is Itachi , it looks like him.....Anyway +rep , finally someone to say this :D
 
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Blaze Release

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I think most what we still believe to be true about Itachi is an illusion.What do we really know about him?

The "truth" will definitly be interesting.
Believe it or not the very first time i say itachi i just didnt believe this was the sort of guy to murder his clan for the sake of testing his abilities. The 2 hints that stroke me the most is asuma questioned him and asked whether what itachi said is something somebody who killed his clan would say after itachi told asuma not to mess in his affairs. The other thing was when kakashi questioned why he didnt kill him when he supposedly could've in tsukuyomi. Add what the scenario about the whole jiraiya thing and then it struck me, believe it or not that there is more to itachi than what meets the eye.

Ive been proven right, right somewhat. I doubted he killed the clan, but he did kill the clan but he not only had help from tobi, it wasnt to test his capabilities like he said. If you add the background story i was more or less right. Although i didnt predict the whole uchiha revolt thing.

Ive always been suspicious of the village and of the senju clan in particular also. If you add that itachi has confirmed that the village does have its dark side and inconsistencies, but also after what kabuto said, im willing to believe that the uchiha did were really discriminated on and what tobi has been saying is right, this also includes the whole police force farce that tobirama pulled, but also he was the creator of a technique that includes human sacrifices some of the things the village and in deed the senju is questionable. The uchiha have been portrayed as more or less evil/villains and im certain its not the case. Hopefully itachi will tell the what really happened. Id also like an explanation to his unknown illness which wouldnt surprise me if that is also linked somehow to that nights event
 
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Zaiigoukyou

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Could be true, never really thought itachi could wipe out his clan by himself. That really underrates the power of the uchiha clan
I think the same thing.
He did go to ToBi for help and everyone thought the help was achieving the MS.
Itachi may have wiped out the clan but I seriously doubt it was a conventional method. He probably used some crazy method or jutsu with assistance to get the job done.

As strong as Itachi is I seriously doubt he could have killed all the members of one of the strongest clans in existance in the mange by himself.

Thats like the first Hokage soloing 2nd hokage, the 3 sannin and Kakashi's father, third Hokage, Naruto, Kakashi, Guy you get the picture?

And like Kabuto said Itachi is liar and he lied about everything.

We thought this whole time Itachi killed shisui but it turns shisui sacrificed himself and gave Itachi his eyes. We also thought Itachi was the most powerful genjutsu user currently in the Uchiha when the honor goes to shusui.

So I absolutely agree +reps.
 

Zaiigoukyou

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Sasuke would hate Konoha even more.



Great scan, + rep.




Thx.

Tobi's reason for influencing Sasuke and giving him all these power ups are still unknown.He's a notorious liar and a master manipulator so we can't always believe what he says. The two things we do know are:

1. Tobi said to Zetzu he wanted Sasuke to replace Nagato.Both as pawn and to synch him to Gedo mazo.

You must be registered for see images


The likely scenario here is the awakening of the rinnegan, although the plan is very risky.

2.Tobi expect Sasuke and Naruto to fight each other. I assume this will be very significant to his plans since Naruto is merely a pawn.
Actually this is not a theory thread anymore its fact.
Itachi had more help then we think but he just took all the blame.
 

siyo

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I don't know if Itachi killed part of the clan with Tobi or not to be quite honest. I don't think Danzou did a thing that was hands on though. That's definitely not his style unless forced to. Just look at him in his limited actions. As a genin/chuunin froze up as volunteering to be the sacrifice when Hiruzen spoke up. Hid with ANBU ROOT during Nagato's invasion of Konoha to be in position for Hokage afterwards. Used Fu and Torune to fight Tobi rather than working with them. Took Karin hostage. These aren't the actions of a man of likes to get his hands dirty. Hell, that's partly why he founded ROOT in the first place.

I definitely believe that we don't know the whole truth about that night; thus, I agree with you on that point. I also agree that there's significance in Itachi basically telling Naruto to shut up about the Uchiha massacre (when ET Itachi and ET Nagato met KM Naruto and Bee) and just recently making Sasuke question what he accepts as "true" as Sasuke chased him through the trees on the way to Kabuto.

Further, if you do go back and read about what's been revealed, Kishi has done so in a way that it's never definitive, given the source is Tobi (ultimate liar and manipulator of the Narutoverse) and how it's propagated. It's basically what Tobi said, and people aside from Itachi confirming (Danzou seemingly does, but not definitively)/going along with to some degree (Naruto, Sasuke without a second thought - not sure how much Kakashi has accepted Tobi's words) Tobi's statement. I think that it's such a shocking "truth" with so much redemption behind it even if it is still Itachi killing, not murdering, his clan that people (e.g. Naruto, Sasuke) are easy to accept it who care about the two people involved, Sasuke and/or Itachi.

Granted, Kakashi cares, but he's much wiser, experienced, not so led by emotion, etc. that I think he's the only one who's heard "the truth" that hasn't decided if it's actually true, and he was the only one to not immediately accept "the truth" of Tobi's words. Further, he warned against propagating them. However, that's just speculation and possibly a bit off-topic. That's off the top of the head, so I could be missing someone like Kabuto. Kabuto may know something about the Uchiha massacre and try to screw with Sasuke and Itachi by starting to speak of that night if he gets more desperate (already tried to recruit Sasuke to backstab Itachi and join him..., kinda weak).

Essentially, this is all just fruit from a poisoned tree to use legal jargon, so it would be thrown out as testimony in court or the judge would at least instruct the jury on how to weight the information at the very least. This is a concept at least Kakashi understands.... Now, if it's verified, then it could be permissible, but that kind of makes me wonder if Tobi had Sasuke kill Danzou not just to improve his MS, satisfy some of his vengeance for Itachi, but to silence Danzou as a source of truth. Itachi was dead, Danzou would be dead by plan, and soon it would just be Tobi's word (he didn't foresee Kabuto and IWR obviously, let alone Sasuke meeting ET Itachi who broke his binding). After all, Danzou was not the type of ninja to talk about past missions (he condemned Itachi for thinking he even did so), so him fighting Sasuke was not much risk. Particularly given Sasuke's weak genjutsu (even Tsukiyomi), blind rage, and being lost in the darkness, amongst other factors. Sasuke could've still done plenty of damage to Konoha especially with Naruto, Kakashi, Danzou all gone and Tsunade in a coma. Sure, Nagato basically laid it to waste, but Sasuke could've potentially made the place unrecoverable and dealt with the two remaining elders along with a comatose Tsunade.

Danzou, however, was a potential information spout. Further, Sasuke accomplished virtually nothing at the Kage Summit as far as facing the 5 Kage. Wow, the Raikage lost his left hand for being a moron lost in passion of the battle and willingly plunging his arm into Sasuke's blaze release Ameratsu. As well, he almost died by Onooki's dust release if not for Tobi. Thus, I don't buy that Tobi actually hoped that Sasuke would accomplish anything at the Kage Summit except build up his MS, which he could've done against Konoha. Tobi could've shown up to declare war without Sasuke's sideshow, and it would have had the same impact. That's my view. Danzou, however, was a unique potential threat to Tobi's control over Sasuke if for some reason he said something, so he had Sasuke deal with him at a time when Sasuke would listen to virtually no one. Speculation of course. :)

My apologies, your OP led to my thinking a little too much (I'm actually holding back now, in part because I finished my cereal, lol. :)), hence the length. Some times, the simplest stated ideas can form the basis for a much larger set of sophisticated ideas. I believe your OP and title, "Itachi did not kill the Uchiha Clan" perform that role elegantly for which I laud you. I think the importance of this post will grow in time when Itachi finally reveals "the truth" according to Itachi (sounds like a damn gospel at church, lol). Sure a lot of people on the forums can say, and have said that they felt the same belief as you did but didn't feel like typing it out, and that may or may not be. However, given that you put forward the time and effort in an effective manner, you are the publisher of this idea, which makes what you did novel while the rest of us are merely reviewers... Cheers! :izuna:

Peace
Unfortunately, I can't rep but you must give me the secret ingredient in your cerail because I want some.




Believe it or not the very first time i say itachi i just didnt believe this was the sort of guy to murder his clan for the sake of testing his abilities. The 2 hints that stroke me the most is asuma questioned him and asked whether what itachi said is something somebody who killed his clan would say after itachi told asuma not to mess in his affairs. The other thing was when kakashi questioned why he didnt kill him when he supposedly could've in tsukuyomi. Add what the scenario about the whole jiraiya thing and then it struck me, believe it or not that there is more to itachi than what meets the eye.

Ive been proven right, right somewhat. I doubted he killed the clan, but he did kill the clan but he not only had help from tobi, it wasnt to test his capabilities like he said. If you add the background story i was more or less right. Although i didnt predict the whole uchiha revolt thing.

Ive always been suspicious of the village and of the senju clan in particular also. If you add that itachi has confirmed that the village does have its dark side and inconsistencies, but also after what kabuto said, im willing to believe that the uchiha did were really discriminated on and what tobi has been saying is right, this also includes the whole police force farce that tobirama pulled, but also he was the creator of a technique that includes human sacrifices some of the things the village and in deed the senju is questionable. The uchiha have been portrayed as more or less evil/villains and im certain its not the case. Hopefully itachi will tell the what really happened. Id also like an explanation to his unknown illness which wouldnt surprise me if that is also linked somehow to that nights event

The senju were not innocent since they were all warriors who took whatever job was given to them.I believe the whole "will of fire" was really implemented late during the third hokages regin. Therefore it wouldn't surprise me if they did something shady.We all saw how people looked at Kakashi's father just because he broke a silly rule that you have to leave people behind. However the senju did ask for peace and the uchiha did want to revolt, which means the senju represented the good guys.
 
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