Itachi DID kinda solo Negato like it or not...

[spartan_kenobi]

y every day so many threads about Itachi :|
By popularity hes the No 1 .. that I can say for sure

I actually like Minato more personally. Kishi did say in one of his latest interviews that Itachi is his favorite Akatsuki, but Minato embodies much of his own personality and what he himsef aspires to be like as a father.

Everyone has their own favorites on the show, but it does seem kishi has made itachi and minato as the two "flawless" men in his saga, although they're not exactly the "most powerful" as the term goes.

 

[JIRAIYA perv]

I did not use logic outside of naruto. And please, if you read my post closely, I did not say Itachi is "more powerful" than Nagato. As far as the terms "powerful" goes, you remain correct. That's just not what decides who wins a fight in naruto, as is the case with the result of this particular fight - which is part of the manga, not my imagination.

cool, and also i agree with you that flashy jutsu are not what decides the fight, jutsu are tools so a master can make a simple jutsu effective. but all i meant was, in the nagato vs itachi case the manga gave us simple and clear statements and indications that say that nagato is stronger than itachi, so whats the point of saying itachi vs nagato over and over again when the manga answered that for us ?? anyways sorry if i was disrespectful in any way ...

 

[Artaya]

Itachi and Kisame ran from Jiraiya.

 

[TurrinB]

There was kind of two other shinobi helping him like it or not.

 

[TheSages456]

itachi took out the summons when nagato wasnt paying any attention to him and itachi wasnt even in the fight at that point. itachi cant replicate what he did if its a 1 on 1 and nagato is paying full attention to itachi.

itachi gets ended by chibaku tensei.

 

[spartan_kenobi]

itachi took out the summons when nagato wasnt paying any attention to him and itachi wasnt even in the fight at that point. itachi cant replicate what he did if its a 1 on 1 and nagato is paying full attention to itachi.

itachi gets ended by chibaku tensei.

As much as I enjoy reading new posts, I really wish people will stop raising the same point over and over again after I've already addressed them in several of my previous replies.

Nagato relies on SHARED FIELD OF VISION for his combat responsiveness, NOT STARING AT HIS OPPONENTS. For nagato fans I dont understand why you would downgrade his godly sensing ability here. Nagato/Pain often doesnt even look at their opponents when attacking them, as is the case where Nagato grabbed Bee with Asura's path.

The notion that nagato was "too busy with naruto and bee" to notice itachi was in the fight at first is PREPOSTEROUS, especially when the accusation comes from people seemingly rooting for nagato.... read chapter 550, kabuto/nagato knew itachi was on the battlefield from the start, and common sense says he's been tracking his movements from the start. Itachi didn't "steathily run behind his back to stab his pets' eyes", he disabled his shared vision WHEN NAGATO'S PERFECT SHARED FIELD OF VISION WAS STILL "ON", by using his superb skill to find ALL THE BLIND SPOTS with his shurikens.

When you think carefully on what happened, what defeated nagato was not even Susanoo's sword, for Bee has sealing jutsu too (even sand fodder's sealing would work the same way). What took down Nagato's perfect sensing ability, thus breaking through his perfect defenses, are plain, old shurikens, in the hand of a master. Now if that isn't a text book case of "pebble beating kunai" zetsu spoke of, I don't know what is.

It's true that Itachi couldn't have destroyed Chibaku Tensei on his own, but the point here in the manga is that if he didnt have to save naruto and bee, Nagato would be sealed BEFORE he even used CT.

 

[KidGamer65]

As much as I enjoy reading new posts, I really wish people will stop raising the same point over and over again after I've already addressed them in several of my previous replies.

Nagato relies on SHARED FIELD OF VISION for his combat responsiveness, NOT STARING AT HIS OPPONENTS. For nagato fans I dont understand why you would downgrade his godly sensing ability here. Nagato/Pain often doesnt even look at their opponents when attacking them, as is the case where Nagato grabbed Bee with Asura's path.

If hie shared vision is disabled he is obviously going to use his real eyes to see and since Naruto and Bee aren't her eint his scenario, Nagato's own two eyes will be focusing on Itachi, I don't know why you are acting like he can't see just because Shared Vision is gone

The notion that nagato was "too busy with naruto and bee" to notice itachi was in the fight at first is PREPOSTEROUS, especially when the accusation comes from people seemingly rooting for nagato.... read chapter 550, kabuto/nagato knew itachi was on the battlefield from the start, and common sense says he's been tracking his movements from the start. Itachi didn't "steathily run behind his back to stab his pets' eyes", he disabled his shared vision WHEN NAGATO'S PERFECT SHARED FIELD OF VISION WAS STILL "ON", by using his superb skill to find ALL THE BLIND SPOTS with his shurikens.

Again Nagato will be focusing on Itachi the whole fight.

When you think carefully on what happened, what defeated nagato was not even Susanoo's sword, for Bee has sealing jutsu too (even sand fodder's sealing would work the same way). What took down Nagato's perfect sensing ability, thus breaking through his perfect defenses, are plain, old shurikens, in the hand of a master. Now if that isn't a text book case of "pebble beating kunai" zetsu spoke of, I don't know what is.

It's true that Itachi couldn't have destroyed Chibaku Tensei on his own, but the point here in the manga is that if he didnt have to save naruto and bee, Nagato would be sealed BEFORE he even used CT.

False, If Bee and Naruto weren't there, what do you think Nagato would be doing....fighting Itachi.
Itachi can't and never will be able to solo Nagato.

 

[spartan_kenobi]

If hie shared vision is disabled he is obviously going to use his real eyes to see and since Naruto and Bee aren't her eint his scenario, Nagato's own two eyes will be focusing on Itachi, I don't know why you are acting like he can't see just because Shared Vision is gone



Again Nagato will be focusing on Itachi the whole fight.



False, If Bee and Naruto weren't there, what do you think Nagato would be doing....fighting Itachi.
Itachi can't and never will be able to solo Nagato.

Without his shared field of vision which he relies on for defense in everyone of his fights, Nagato has no way to see behind him. As either Pain or Nagato, he has never shown himself capable of extraordinary reflexes and movement speed. If anything Pain has shown himself to be quite rigid in fights and tends to be rooted to a spot spamming his powers (which incidentally is how he lost the God realm fight with naruto), so excuse me but I'm not really having a hard time picturing light-feeted Itachi getting behind his back with nagato's shared vision gone and deal the lethal blow with his susanoo.

And on whether Itachi would have been able to disable the shared vision when Nagato is focused on him, please step back and see how Itachi really disabled the summons' vision. Itachi pulled off the feat WHILE HE WAS BEING WATCHED BY MORE THAN ONE PAIR OF EYES, by finding the BLIND SPOTS with his shuriken attacks. You're familiar with the concept of blind spots right? Nagato has never lost sight of Itachi, but he COULDN'T TRACK THE ROUTE OF HIS SHURIKENS even at multiple angles, and Itachi showed himself capable of finding 8 different angle's blind spots when he was a kid, meaning even if Nagato's eyes are focusing on Itachi as well, it would be nothing more than one extra pair of eyes (an extra angle), and he still could NOT have evaded the shurikens by definition.

 

[KidGamer65]

Without his shared field of vision which he relies on for defense in everyone of his fights, Nagato has no way to see behind him. As either Pain or Nagato, he has never shown himself capable of extraordinary reflexes and movement speed. If anything Pain has shown himself to be quite rigid in fights and tends to be rooted to a spot spamming his powers (which incidentally is how he lost the God realm fight with naruto), so excuse me but I'm not really having a hard time picturing light-feeted Itachi getting behind his back with nagato's shared vision gone and deal the lethal blow with his susanoo.

Nagato is a sensor first of all so he will be able to sense Itachi using his Susanoo, then he can counter with Shinra Tensei or Chou Shinra Tensei.

And on whether Itachi would have been able to disable the shared vision when Nagato is focused on him, please step back and see how Itachi really disabled the summons' vision. Itachi pulled off the feat WHILE HE WAS BEING WATCHED BY MORE THAN ONE PAIR OF EYES, by finding the BLIND SPOTS with his shuriken attacks. You're familiar with the concept of blind spots right? Nagato has never lost sight of Itachi, but he COULDN'T TRACK THE ROUTE OF HIS SHURIKENS even at multiple angles, and Itachi showed himself capable of finding 7 different angle's blind spots when he was a kid, meaning even if Nagato's eyes are focusing on Itachi as well, it would be nothing more than one extra pair of eyes (an extra angle), and he still could NOT have evaded the shurikens by definition.

If Nagato is focusing on Itachi he can attack him with one of his many Rinnegan techniques, He isn't going to stand there and let him disable his Shared Vision or he could simply summon more beasts.

When he was training only one of the targets was at a blind spot, and if he was being watched by the Summons it wasn't a blind-spot in their eyes, it was simply the fact the Nagato was busy preventing him from stopping Itachi.

 

[spartan_kenobi]

Nagato is a sensor first of all so he will be able to sense Itachi using his Susanoo, then he can counter with Shinra Tensei or Chou Shinra Tensei.

Nagato's sensing ability is definitely not instant or that precise, otherwise he would never have been sealed at all in the edo fight in question, even without the shared field of vision. He would have leaped away from the susanoo sword, instead of being stabbed from behind just like that. He can't follow his opponents' movement precisely enough to counter, as soon as his shared vision is gone. That's the reason he lost the fight here.

If Nagato is focusing on Itachi he can attack him with one of his many Rinnegan techniques, He isn't going to stand there and let him disable his Shared Vision or he could simply summon more beasts.

When he was training only one of the targets was at a blind spot, and if he was being watched by the Summons it wasn't a blind-spot in their eyes, it was simply the fact the Nagato was busy preventing him from stopping Itachi.

Again it doesnt matter if Nagato is focusing on Itachi it would just be one extra angle. And I think you're a little confused about the concept of blind spots my friend (judging from your terms like "wasn't a blind spot in their eyes"), it's about disabling the opponents' tracking. Itachi showed himself able to redirect his shuriken's trajectory mid air, AND he has the ability to target multiple directions (acquiring 8 different initial trajectories of his projectile weapons), these two abilities combined would lead to his ability to target at least 8 different angle's blindspots.

 

[KidGamer65]

Nagato's sensing ability is definitely not instant or that precise, otherwise he would never have been sealed at all in the edo fight in question, even without the shared field of vision. He would have leaped away from the susanoo sword, instead of being stabbed from behind just like that. He can't follow his opponents' movement precisely enough to counter, as soon as his shared vision is gone. That's the reason he lost the fight here.

Kabuto didn't know he was a sensor so he couldn't apply that to Nagato's fighting style.

Again it doesnt matter if Nagato is focusing on Itachi it would just be one extra angle. And I think you're a little confused about the concept of blind spots my friend (judging from your terms like "wasn't a blind spot in their eyes"), it's about disabling the opponents' tracking. Itachi showed himself able to redirect his shuriken's trajectory mid air, AND he has the ability to target multiple directions (acquiring 8 different initial trajectories of his projectile weapons), these two abilities combined would lead to his ability to target at least 8 different angle's blindspots.

An example of a blind spot is Neji's Byakugan's blind spot, Neji has 360 degree vision except he can't see in a certain area near his neck, that's his blind spot, that's what a blind spot is.

Nagato's Shared Vision covers all angles so there can't be any blind spots. He only hit him because Nagato was busy with Bee and Naruto.

 

[AmaniPaz]

Bro, Nagato wasn't controlling himself.

 

[spartan_kenobi]

Kabuto didn't know he was a sensor so he couldn't apply that to Nagato's fighting style.

An example of a blind spot is Neji's Byakugan's blind spot, Neji has 360 degree vision except he can't see in a certain area near his neck, that's his blind spot, that's what a blind spot is.

Nagato's Shared Vision covers all angles so there can't be any blind spots. He only hit him because Nagato was busy with Bee and Naruto.

No, again please reread the chapter you're referring to. Kabuto didn't know whether or not Itachi had chakra sensing ability. He DID know nagato's able to sense chakra, please read their conversation in that chapter again (i assume you are referring to the chapter when itachi first found kabuto's cave, right?)

Ground is Neji's blindspot exactly because Neji cant follow his opponent's movement/the landing blow's trajectory below ground. And I really think you're confused about the nature of nagato's shared field of vision by saying he doesnt have a blind spot, or that one extra pair of eyes from nagato would make that much of a difference at all. In Jiraiya vs Pain arc, kishimoto defines shared vision simply as intercepting cones of vision: it vastly expands the user's awareness, but just like the surveillance system kishimoto compared it too, THE TECHINQUE DOES HAVE BLIND SPOTS BY DEFINITION. Just draw a graph yourself by a 3 dimensional coordinate on your computer and see how it works.

Itachi is able to exploit the 3D structure of the overlaying visual cones of the "shared vision surveillance" because of his ability to alter the trajectory of small, fast moving projectile weapons, a feat that would remain effective even with an extra pair of eyes. Please think about this abit more, for the shuriken-disabling-rinnegan design is actually very smartly written by kishimoto, who has time and again shown him quite familiar with geometric manipulation.

 

[JakeLife510]

You need to reread about his movements and reflexes.

Remember how fast he saved Konan from Hanzo?

Remember how fast he got behind Bee after he shinra tensei them from the gecko, right before he absorbed Bee's chakra?

Nagato is pretty fast

 

[spartan_kenobi]

You need to reread about his movements and reflexes.

Remember how fast he saved Konan from Hanzo?

Remember how fast he got behind Bee after he shinra tensei them from the gecko, right before he absorbed Bee's chakra?

Nagato is pretty fast

The speed shown is achievable by all S class ninjas, besides I'm more talking about his fighting style. His movements are all part of an aggressive move, straightforward, and mostly in a straight line, and when he does attack he tends to be rooted to the ground. Nagato may be able to achieve great speed (the standard level of S class ninjas, not at naruto or minato's level), but he's not a nimble fighter. I really think a lot of more quick-footed shinobis would have easily evaded naruto's last attack in the God realm vs Naruto fight. Nagato likes to stay rooted to one spot and spam his overwhelming power, and this fighting style will definitely work against him against an agile and mobile fighter like itachi.

 

[KidGamer65]

No, again please reread the chapter you're referring to. Kabuto didn't know whether or not Itachi had chakra sensing ability. He DID know nagato's able to sense chakra, please read their conversation in that chapter again (i assume you are referring to the chapter when itachi first found kabuto's cave, right?)

No, you need to re-read, he wondered if Itachi had sensed his chakra and tracked him back to the cave then Itachi tells him that it was Nagato's ability to sense chakra. If he knew Nagato could sense chakra why would he think Itachi did it.

Ground is Neji's blindspot exactly because Neji cant follow his opponent's movement/the landing blow's trajectory below ground. And I really think you're confused about the nature of nagato's shared field of vision by saying he doesnt have a blind spot, or that one extra pair of eyes from nagato would make that much of a difference at all. In Jiraiya vs Pain arc, kishimoto defines shared vision simply as intercepting cones of vision: it vastly expands the user's awareness, but just like the surveillance system kishimoto compared it too, THE TECHINQUE DOES HAVE BLIND SPOTS BY DEFINITION. Just draw a graph yourself by a 3 dimensional coordinate on your computer and see how it works.

No, Neji's blind spot is the spot behind is neck, this was explained in part 1 during his fight with Kidomaru. A Blind Spot is an area that can't be seen by something like a camera or someones eyes, A blind spot is not what you are referring to it as.

Itachi is able to exploit the 3D structure of the overlaying visual cones of the "shared vision surveillance" because of his ability to alter the trajectory of small, fast moving projectile weapons, a feat that would remain effective even with an extra pair of eyes. Please think about this abit more, for the shuriken-disabling-rinnegan design is actually very smartly written by kishimoto, who has time and again shown him quite familiar with geometric manipulation.

Nagato can simply deflect the Shuriken with Shinra Tensei or Asura Path so even if the Shuriken hit his other summons he could deflect the ones coming at him and summon more beasts

 

[spartan_kenobi]

No, you need to re-read, he wondered if Itachi had sensed his chakra and tracked him back to the cave then Itachi tells him that it was Nagato's ability to sense chakra. If he knew Nagato could sense chakra why would he think Itachi did it.



No, Neji's blind spot is the spot behind is neck, this was explained in part 1 during his fight with Kidomaru. A Blind Spot is an area that can't be seen by something like a camera or someones eyes, A blind spot is not what you are referring to it as.



Nagato can simply deflect the Shuriken with Shinra Tensei or Asura Path so even if the Shuriken hit his other summons he could deflect the ones coming at him and summon more beasts

Kabuto was merely responding to Itachi's claim that he tracked him down. Itachi was alone when he entered the cave, with Nagato already taken care of, that is why Kabuto wondered if Itachi himself can track chakra too.

And again blind spot is simply the collection of ALL coordinates within the 3 dimensional space that is not within any of the overlaying visual cones. Its definition ENCOMPASSES your explanation of the term, but exceeds it. I really dont see why we are still arguing about this simple point. Logic dictates that if you're saying nagato's shared field of vision "has no blind spot", it would indicate your understanding of the term is incomplete. Please just think about this for a bit.

And your suggestion of pain's defence using different paths against "blind spot attacks" seem to further imply you dont quite get the term. A CAMERA CANT TRACK MOVEMENT OUTSIDE OF ITS VISUAL CONE, one cant track objects in its blindspot, even by your definition, this statement should hold true. In short, Pain wouldn't know WHERE TO BLOCK, even though he has plenty of tools to block a simple shuriken.

Once the shared field of vision is gone, nagato would be defenceless against the susanoo sword attack from the massive range of blindspots around him. Shinra tensei's 5 second interval is more than enough for itachi to seal him.

 

[Turson]

Nope, that was team effort, not 1 vs. 1 fight. Without Narutos and Bees help Itachi wouldnt be able to counter Chibaku Tensei.

 

[spartan_kenobi]

Nope, that was team effort, not 1 vs. 1 fight. Without Narutos and Bees help Itachi wouldnt be able to counter Chibaku Tensei.

it's true but when you look at the sequence of events taking place in that fight, itachi had already disabled nagato's shared field of vision before he went to save naruto and bee with susanoo, meaning he could have sealed nagato right there if he chose to ignore naruto and bee, ending the fight before nagato has the chance to use CT.

Please refer to my earlier posts for a more detailed explanation of my opinion on this fight.

 

[Turson]

it's true but when you look at the sequence of events taking place in that fight, itachi had already disabled nagato's shared field of vision before he went to save naruto and bee with susanoo, meaning he could have sealed nagato right there if he chose to ignore naruto and bee, ending the fight before nagato has the chance to use CT.

Please refer to my earlier posts for a more detailed explanation of my opinion on this fight.

Thats only becuase Nagato was focused on Naruto and Bee, and Itachi disabled Rinnegans shared field of vision by blinding Narakas paths King of Hell.