itachi and sasuke vs jiriya and naruto
- Thread starter Lord Snow
- Start date
The Immortal
Banned
DeathPulse16
Active member
No no, i got the point dude, i did. Just thought id throw the fact that naruto has done very little in there. lol
DeathPulse16
Active member
sasuketherealuchiha
Member
Ok it says to add madara to uchiha team and minato to narutos team
Depending on the battle grounds, it could go anyway. Woody area = advantage narutos team since it would make it easier for minato to perform his FTG technique. Plains (no trees, rocks, ect.) = team uchiha advantage, since there is not very much places to hide minatos FTG kunia and theres no place for naruto and jman to activate sage mode. Plus it depends on hew fights hew, if its minato vs. madara, minato wins. But if its like Naruto vs itachi, itachi would most likely win due to his skills with genjutsus. it completely depends on hew fights hew, and where they fight. A more interesting fight would be Itachi, Sasuke, and Madara vs. Naruto, pervy sage, and Minato, no special jutsus/powers ( genjutsu, sage mode, FTG, space jutsus, or kyubii powers) Anyway I think team Naruto would win
GamaSennin
Member
I like your counter point. Here is my argument:
1. Jiraiya is a dud at USING genjutsu. He said that when he explained to fukusaku and shima how he should attack Pein. If he used genjutsu through them, theyd have a surprise element. Nowhere is it mentioned that you need to be a Genjutsu type ninja to defend against a genjutsu. Orochimaru's power/knowledge/experience while fighting itachi 10 years before shippuden (when he was in Akatsuki) is much inferior to Jiraiya's Senni Mode display while fighting Pein. Orochimaru, Kakashi, Itachi and Sasuke all have a weakness in the Amount of chakra/Stamina and a strength in the Ninjutsu department. You said Itachi wouldn't use susano'o until Jiraiya is tired. I am saying Jiraiya will last much longer than itachi and Itachi will use susano'o because he will have to not because he wants to. Also why do you think when he was fighting the 8 headed orochimaru did he play possum with teh susano once Orochimaru did his jutsu? Only reasons i can think is too much strain or too slow. both are not good for itachi. to The fight is pretty even and if i had not seen the Pein arc, I would be supporting Itachi hands down. However...
2. There are 2 reasons why Sasuke would not be able to dodge Rasenshuriken. Firstly, I said Rasenshuriken is to break the Susano meaning that when Sasuke will have to dodge, He will have to move with the Susano and I agree susano has no weight but the amount of Eye/Nose/Body strain required to maintain the susano and move with it is tremendous
You must be registered for see links
(read last two pictures on the right). Sasuke, once again, has bad stamina and runs out of Chakra. Naruto has a much greater advantage. REason Naruto can dodge Amaterasu is because Sage mode gives not just a power level boost but a Speed boost as well (same advantage for jiraiya against Itachi). Second reason why Sasuke cannot dodge Rasenshuriken is because you are talking like Naruto is a noob. He uses Kagebunshin as a distraction and makes the Rasenshuriken in the back ground. He doesn't just stand there and charge it up and then go head first (apart from against Kakuzu). That is why speed is irrelevant. Also Naruto would be in Sage mode meaning his speed would probably be greater. 2.
Conclusion:
1. This is a stupid thread. If we were talking about Dragonball Z, Its a question of who is stronger. In Naruto, the whole point is to outsmart the opponent not brute force kick his ass. If Amaterasu hit Jiraiya he'd be toast. If Senni mode jiraiya as much as kicked Itachi, he'd be toast. If Naruto hit sasuke with a rasen rinden (not even Senpō: Chōōdama Rasen Tarengan), he would knock out sasuke. If sasuke touched naruto with the Amaterasu he'd win. This debate is 'mendokse' and pointless because the series of events and luck changes EVERYTHING.
2. You seem to think I consider Itachi weak. Jiraiya is my favorite character in Naruto but Databook 3, the official release gives both him and Itachi equal total points and Itachi is rated higher in almost every field but stamina.(he is only 0.5/5 higher in speed though which makes me think Senni mode Jiraiya can cover if not surpass the .5 deficit) He is rated same in many too. This was before shippuden so its right after when he backed off with kisame. that is why i am saying the only conclusion you can get is that if Jiraiya draws out the fight he has an advantage. If he can't do it because of some cleaver trick of Itachi's, then obviously itachi would win. I'd like to say the same for Naruto/sasuke but I really believe that Itachi at his prime was stronger than Sasuke is at this point in the anime (not manga) since his susano'o is inferior and although he has manipulated Amaterasu, Genjutsu wouldn't work on Naruto. Even Madara said Naruto was probably stronger (and I don't think he was just saying it to piss sasuke off) so I believe at this point in the anime (not manga), naruto would have a better chance of beating sasuke than he has ever had/ever will have. I think this is the only part where i think he has temporarily surpassed sasuke (which is why many people are wondering why he didn't finish of sasuke in today's episode but that is his 'absorbing hatred' objective. Also, Madara intervenes). Also in summons, I don't know why you think Gamabunta would have the advantage. As i cited, frogs seem to fail against Flying summons pretty hard and unless he did a combination hengi, I really think a taka would have the advantage. I also think that hawk can definitely do some ninjutsu (danzo's elephant could. so can gamabunta and katsuya also has chakra. I can see it using 'gust' or Peck and getting some beast criticals on bulky Gamabunta. I was enraged but not surprised when sasuke picked him as a summon. It seemed a very flashy, show off 'sasuke' thing to do). Also in Sasuke's defence although wind has an advantage over lightening, the only wind thing naruto uses is rasenshuriken so i don't see his immunity of the 100 different types of chidori increasing at all, much less so against Kirin.
However, once again, 90% of the time, the fight is determined by what is happening at the time and what Jutsu's clash
PS: I love Itachi. He is a crazy control-freak but he so far the number of ways he can beat someone is still not surpassed (except perhaps now by sasuke after itachi 'gifted' him his eyes. Kakashi probably knew more number of jutsu but his fight with Itachi proves that Itachi has the upper hand in Timing and execution) and he also has the nature/timing of his ninjutsu/genjutsu spot on (and he has a lot of them). I am sure he had a summon and we just don't know about it since he never used it in the anime). I am really into the whole philosophical part of the series and so Jiraiya is my hero.
Forgotten Shinobi
Member
Naruto was given the fox at birth so your argument is at an all time fanboy low. Still doesn't explain why fanboy tools follow one of the largest anime tools.
GamaSennin
Member
On a side note why are Madara and Minato being dragged into this? Madara was so powerful that Minato sealed the Kyuubi in Naruto so that eventually he could rid the world off Madara. Clearly at least until kyuubi mode Naruto (and I'd like to think even after)... Madara is the toughest shinobi to beat. He materializes for split seconds, now has the rinnegan (and as a consequence Shinra Tensei too). Madara would whoop anyone's ass. That is why so far he is portrayed as the main boss. Its really that simple.
Another thing that is bothering me is the number of allegations that Naruto/Sasuke fans are putting on Sasuke/Naruto fans as far as the 'cheapness' of the Sharingan/Kyuubi and how lucky they are to have it.
Analysis of Kyuubi vs Sharingan: Which is 'cheaper'?
Firstly, as far as time of gift Kyuubi was 'gifted' minutes after birth. Cost of gifting was death of both Parents. Sharingan is a Kekkai Genkai so gifted since birth and no cost of Gifting apart from having to hear snobbish father.
3 tails vs 3 Tomoe:
3 tails: Gives lot more Chakra, Chakra Arms; Cost:causes physical strain on user that goes on until user loses conciousness, Still under constant pressure (even when not used) since first use to just ‘let go and kill everything'. People like Gaara succumb and get taken over.
3 Tomoe: Projects Trajectory of Motion, Sees minute objects, Copies Jutsu/ Masters new ones quickly, Resistance to non-tsukiyomi Genjutsu, Limited control over Bijuu. Cost: Some additional Chakra
4-8 tails vs Mangekyou Sharingan:
4-8 tails: Gives Insane Chakra, Chakra Clones, Tailed beast bomb (miniature). Cost: Blood, total lifespan reduced, no mental control so can kill allies. Variable cost exponentially proportional to number of tails, Death at 9 tails.
MS: 1HKO Amaterasu, 1HKO Tsukiyomi, Ultimate defense Susano’o with its own weapon/shield or Ranged weapon + All benefits of form 1. Susano’o costs no Chakra since Itachi used it when he was very low against sasuke. Resistance to all Genjutsu. Skill improves in performing other simpler Genjutsu (Sasuke vs Danzo hand genjutsu) Cost: User starts losing sight proportional to usage of Ama, Tsu, Sus until he is completely blind. Sus causes lot of Strain on body. (kill best fired but Itachi gifted)
Kyuubi Mode vs EMS:
Kyuubi Mode: Insane Speed + Troll Chakra+ Chakra Arms + Improved TBB, Free Torch in Dark times Cost: If too much chakra is used, Kyuubi takes over completely. Risk becomes exponential if Kage Bunshin (Main strategic technique) is used.
EMS: All abilities of Mangekyou + New Abilities that we still don’t know about.
Costs: None. (you must kill your bro and take his eyes. Itachi 'gifted')
That's just my cost benifit Analysis and honestly I am impartial between the two because they are both justified in where they stand (Unlike the Jiraiya vs Itachi argument). However based on above, Sharingan (specifically Sasuke'e because of voided costs by Itachi) really seems a lot 'cheaper' but that's just my opinion.
PS: I am sure i missed something. Feel free to rip me apart.
Another thing that is bothering me is the number of allegations that Naruto/Sasuke fans are putting on Sasuke/Naruto fans as far as the 'cheapness' of the Sharingan/Kyuubi and how lucky they are to have it.
Analysis of Kyuubi vs Sharingan: Which is 'cheaper'?
Firstly, as far as time of gift Kyuubi was 'gifted' minutes after birth. Cost of gifting was death of both Parents. Sharingan is a Kekkai Genkai so gifted since birth and no cost of Gifting apart from having to hear snobbish father.
3 tails vs 3 Tomoe:
3 tails: Gives lot more Chakra, Chakra Arms; Cost:causes physical strain on user that goes on until user loses conciousness, Still under constant pressure (even when not used) since first use to just ‘let go and kill everything'. People like Gaara succumb and get taken over.
3 Tomoe: Projects Trajectory of Motion, Sees minute objects, Copies Jutsu/ Masters new ones quickly, Resistance to non-tsukiyomi Genjutsu, Limited control over Bijuu. Cost: Some additional Chakra
4-8 tails vs Mangekyou Sharingan:
4-8 tails: Gives Insane Chakra, Chakra Clones, Tailed beast bomb (miniature). Cost: Blood, total lifespan reduced, no mental control so can kill allies. Variable cost exponentially proportional to number of tails, Death at 9 tails.
MS: 1HKO Amaterasu, 1HKO Tsukiyomi, Ultimate defense Susano’o with its own weapon/shield or Ranged weapon + All benefits of form 1. Susano’o costs no Chakra since Itachi used it when he was very low against sasuke. Resistance to all Genjutsu. Skill improves in performing other simpler Genjutsu (Sasuke vs Danzo hand genjutsu) Cost: User starts losing sight proportional to usage of Ama, Tsu, Sus until he is completely blind. Sus causes lot of Strain on body. (kill best fired but Itachi gifted)
Kyuubi Mode vs EMS:
Kyuubi Mode: Insane Speed + Troll Chakra+ Chakra Arms + Improved TBB, Free Torch in Dark times
Cost: If too much chakra is used, Kyuubi takes over completely. Risk becomes exponential if Kage Bunshin (Main strategic technique) is used.EMS: All abilities of Mangekyou + New Abilities that we still don’t know about.
Costs: None. (you must kill your bro and take his eyes. Itachi 'gifted')
That's just my cost benifit Analysis and honestly I am impartial between the two because they are both justified in where they stand (Unlike the Jiraiya vs Itachi argument). However based on above, Sharingan (specifically Sasuke'e because of voided costs by Itachi) really seems a lot 'cheaper' but that's just my opinion.
PS: I am sure i missed something. Feel free to rip me apart.
Amanwithnoplan
Active member
I think people are underestimating the power of Itachi's Tsukuyomi. In order to break him out of it, they would first need to realize that he is under genjutsu. But, Itachi's last 72 hours in his world and only a second in the real world. By the time they realized he was under genjutsu (either J of N) it would be over.
MilleniumStorm4
Banned
ok im done cause this will go on forever so ill keep this last one short...naruto would beat sasuke...itachi would beat jiraya(he wont be able to get to sage mode) itachi would beat naruto...the reason why is because itachi would end his fight quickly he could even put naruto in a genjutsu while fighting jiraya and noone would know...one of the jiraya and naruto would be taken out quickly leaving a 2 on 1...
i didnt say itachi would use susano'o when jiraya's tired i said he wouldn't use it recklessly
this is why sasuke could dodge rasenshuriken and naruto cant dodge ameratsu.....or rather i should say more a chance sasuke can dodge than naruto ...on the rasenshuriken im not sure about this but if it doesnt follow u which it doesnt seem like to me you can dodge it...and sasuke's fast enough plus his sharingan gives him an extra advantage..but hey who knows? now ameratsu is undodgeable unless you have blinding speed...raikage...minato...madara(who by the way barely seen it coming)...sage mode naruto is fast but there is no way hes dodging something that ignites the users sight...now kyuubi mode he can dodge it but not sage mode...which is really why they gave him kyuubi a counter to ameratsu and whatever overpowered ems sasuke has...
considering all of their now abilities
whatever power itachi gave naruto aparently counteracts the sharingan. and aparently sage mode can also render sharingan useless so sharingan for the uchiha is useless. then theres amaterasu from both uchiha as well as susanoo. naruto now has practically full control over the 9-tails. also theres the fact that every attempt to return sasuke home from naruto was a failure but then again naruto is not trying to kill sasuke. however if naruto were actually trying to intentionally murder sasuke he could probably pull it off. as for itachi vs jiraya i couldnt tell you. my vote goes to itachi for that one (but its not for any valid reason just cuz itachis my fav character)
whatever power itachi gave naruto aparently counteracts the sharingan. and aparently sage mode can also render sharingan useless so sharingan for the uchiha is useless. then theres amaterasu from both uchiha as well as susanoo. naruto now has practically full control over the 9-tails. also theres the fact that every attempt to return sasuke home from naruto was a failure but then again naruto is not trying to kill sasuke. however if naruto were actually trying to intentionally murder sasuke he could probably pull it off. as for itachi vs jiraya i couldnt tell you. my vote goes to itachi for that one (but its not for any valid reason just cuz itachis my fav character)
Well we do not know for a 100% if that statement was a bluff or not. You can assume it as Itachi wasn't the bad guy in the end.
What I said about the clones or the real Naruto in the background sounds very possible for me. We know that Naruto can create thousands of Clones, in the fight against Pain he couldn't use more then 3 because he had 2 in a far distance gathering sennin chakra.
Also Naruto got skilled with his clones, he was able to deceive Pain several times and he posesses the Rinnegan which is way better then the Sharingan for this situation as Pain had 6 times (5 as he took out the first one in an instant) his usual line of sight.
And yes Itachi is on guard altime no doubt about that. Still Itachi beat Oro and Kakashi over 3 years ago, when he wasn't ill or aleast not as much weakened then he would be if he was still alive.
Considering Sasuke got Susanno and Amaterasu we can assume that Naruto can use the kiyubi mode as well which would mean that he is pretty much immune to genjutsu as we saw Bee break out of Sasukes gen Jutsu in an Instant by geting Chakra from the 8-tails and he would also be fast enought to avoid Amaterasu - yes you might say now that Naruto is not as skilled as Bee and therefore can't do that but we can't tell that for sure so.
So summing up I can say that every minute I think about it I get more and more pros for Naruto and Jiraiya and less and less for Itachi and Sasuke =/
Anyways let me know what you think about it.
Cheers Sominus
LocalNinja
Member
Vampirenight384
Member
I was just thinking the same thing too because on a episode Itachi did say couldn't beat Jiraiya and its pretty obvious that Sasuke couldn't beat Naruto because of how strong he was before and how strong he is now because of the Nine tails I mean everyone can see that now that it was pretty obvious so yea.
actually itachi could beat jiraya if he wanted to he just chose not to. i remember thinking that when i first saw that. but now that ive gotton this far into it ive figured itachi doesnt want to kill them anyway. but then i could be wrong. one things for sure though naruto has sasuke beat.I was just thinking the same thing too because on a episode Itachi did say couldn't beat Jiraiya and its pretty obvious that Sasuke couldn't beat Naruto because of how strong he was before and how strong he is now because of the Nine tails I mean everyone can see that now that it was pretty obvious so yea.