Itachi and Minato can't beat each other really :/
- Thread starter Troyg39
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1. You have no proof of your first point. Only speculation. Never has Minato been shown to be able to teleport through a solid object once he's out of his kunai seal. All the pages you provided show him landing within a few inches of his seal, that does not mean he can pass through something without there already being a seal there. Example when he teleported inside that building to keep Naruto safe, yes he was able to teleport inside the building, but only because the seal is there, he can not however teleport to the inside of the building if his seal is on the outside say on the outside wall. He will appear somewhere outside the building. FTG doesn't allow him to pass though objects unless the seal is already placed within that object. And I already proved this with my response to your Obito argument. Again, even if your theory on that were true, he still didn't pass through Obito. The seal was on his back, which is still outside of Obito's body. As you just said, he can teleport within the radius of the seal. And since the seal was also on the outside of Obito's body, then it would still make sense that he could teleport around him and to the front. That in no way proves he passed through him. So you actually proved my point there. You have to come with something better than that
2. Again Itachi's susanoo has yata mirror, all attacks from long range will be futile as yata mirror blocks all attacks. And as I said, if the toads get too close, they are subject to getting hit with totsuka. You have no argument here either.
3. Wrong. Sound genjutsu takes time to prepare and it took an entire chapter for it to take effect. I will prove this
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Itachi will have plenty of time to attack the toads before the genjutsu finishes. And I was trying to give them some help by placing them on Minato's shoulders thus allowing them to be apart of Minato's FTG for evasion, but since you want them to be summoned separate, tell me how are they going to dodge amaterasu? I didn't think so.
Itachi and Minato are equals
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To anyone else that views this thread. Don't mistake one or two of my posts and approach me as if I'm an Itachi or a Minato fan. I've battled against both Itachi and Minato fanboys and debaters on this thread and I've done so equally and fairly
We all know that Minato has a marking near the Hokage miunt but Minato appears within a radius, he has appeared on Hiruzens and his own head, now both the heads are separate. Also do you know what S/T stands for its time and space manipulation it can't be stopped with mere walls. Its been proven that Minato can teleport within a radius, so what I am trying to say is that he can teleport inside a building wall if he has a marking outside of it and is the wasll isn't as thick as the FTG Radius.
And about that genjutsu you are right, actually I mistook it for this paralyzing genjutsu :
The frog song paralyzes in an instant :
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And actually its better that toads are not boud to the body, they get more mobility, they can use their own SM like seen in Naruto vs Pain, they can do so many things.
Itachi won't get time to attack the toads as he'll have his hands full with Minato. If he is diverted attacking the toad than Minato can end it in a flash!! He can't fight someone as fast as Minato [that too with s/t] and his army of toads by himself, eventually he'll lose.
Also how long do you think he can maintain Yata and Totsuka and the full Susanoo. Alive Itachi and Edo Itachi differ a lot. As seen in my 1st post after 1 Amaterasu and 1 Tsukuyomi he couldn't keep up the mangekyo heck he said he body needs rest!!
People generally make mistakes in Alive and Edo Itachi. Edo Itachi is Itachi beyond his prime with Infinite chakra and no ill effects of the mangekyo [on his body], basically an EMS Itachi with infinite chakra! Alive Itachi has his limitations and that's why he'll lose!
1. I agree that S/T jutsu allows you to bypass walls and solid objects but again that's only if the seal itself is placed within that object. I made an error with something that I said earlier. What I was trying to say is that Minato can't just simply teleport into a hollowed space, as you called it earlier, unless his seal is either on or inside the space. I messed up earlier and said that if Minato places his seal on the outside wall of a building, then he can't be teleported into the building. I was thinking about solid objects then not hollow ones so I shouldn't have said that. But my point is that even if he places a seal on the outside wall of the building, while yes he can still teleport to the inside since that would still be in the radius of the seal, the seal must first be placed on that wall or somewhere close enough to where the the inside of the building is still within that radius. And since we know he never teleports too far away from his seal, that means his seal would have to be pretty close to the hollowed space. So if this were Susanoo, Minato would have to have the seal either on Susanoo or somewhere really close. Which Minato is fast, but he's not so fast as to where it's a good idea to get that close to Susanoo. It would be too difficult to place a seal close enough. Plus Itachi can always use Amaterasu to make a fire barrier around himself to keep Minato from being able to place a seal close to him
2. Ahh see I actually forgot about that genjutsu. It works a lot quicker than the one I showed you so Itachi may actually get caught in that one. The only issue is that Minato would still have to get Itachi to take down Susanoo in order to attack him. As long as that genjustu is strong enough to work on Itachi (who's a genjutsu expert) and forces him to drop Susanoo then that actually is a plausible way of being him I agree.
3. Yes I'm aware that Itachi will run out of stamina after awhile. I just don't consider that defeating Itachi because it's known that Itachi's low stamina is due to his poor health. A lost due to his stamina wouldn't be the result of Minato's strength. My argument isn't that Itachi can't lose the fight. But that the loss wouldn't be a direct result of Minato's own doing
But back to point 2, until you pointed out that paralysis jutsu, I didn't think Minato would have an attack that could effect Itachi once Susanoo was up. It's still debatable whether or not Itachi would actually be effected by it, but you did point out a move that could potentially get past the ultimate defense of susanoo+yata mirror and harm Itachi. So as far as I'm concerned I concede defeat in this debate since my entire argument was based on the idea that neither one of them could harm the other. Congratulations sir and thanks for a wonderful debate!
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You're right about seal being on the Susanoo or very near to it. In fact now that you've mentioned it I think Minato would most like mark the susanoo and thus making it nearly impossible for Itachi to wield it again. He lack the Enton, so its not like his Susanoo would be covered in amaterasu.
Also about the amaterasu cover, how long is he gonna hide in it? eventually he'll need to come out it.
And I think that Paralyzing genjutsu would work like a charm, as seen when Kabuto performed one, Sasuke lost the Susanoo immediately, Itachi could maintain it for few seconds and that too because he was an Edo.
And given the fact that Itachi won't be able to maintain the Susanoo for more than 5 mins, do you think he'll be able to kill someone of Minato's caliber with a S/T within that time limit?
People generally forget that Minato has a lot more than FTG+Rasengan and Itachi is not what he did as an Edo, however you are not one of them
Very true! I completely forgot that a sound genjutsu had already been used. I remember now Itachi was covering his ears I think. The entire basis of Itachi's defense against Minato depends on Susanoo being active. You've convinced me. Minato defeating Itachi actually is very very plausible. I always explore all angles before giving up on a debate and I must say I have been soundly (no pun intended xd) defeated this time. That really was a good counter argument sirYou're right about seal being on the Susanoo or very near to it. In fact now that you've mentioned it I think Minato would most like mark the susanoo and thus making it nearly impossible for Itachi to wield it again. He lack the Enton, so its not like his Susanoo would be covered in amaterasu.
Also about the amaterasu cover, how long is he gonna hide in it? eventually he'll need to come out it.
And I think that Paralyzing genjutsu would work like a charm, as seen when Kabuto performed one, Sasuke lost the Susanoo immediately, Itachi could maintain it for few seconds and that too because he was an Edo.
And given the fact that Itachi won't be able to maintain the Susanoo for more than 5 mins, do you think he'll be able to kill someone of Minato's caliber with a S/T within that time limit?
People generally forget that Minato has a lot more than FTG+Rasengan and Itachi is not what he did as an Edo, however you are not one of them
And yes I look forward to debating side by side with you one day as well!
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You're welcome and again you did very wellVery true! I completely forgot that a sound genjutsu had already been used. I remember now Itachi was covering his ears I think. The entire basis of Itachi's defense against Minato depends on Susanoo being active. You've convinced me. Minato defeating Itachi actually is very very plausible. I always explore all angles before giving up on a debate and I must say I have been sounded defeated this time. That really was a good counter argument sir
