BLAZE, I'm about to respond to your longer post in one sec.
Just think with me for a moment though. Itachi realized exactly what was happening and what type of foe he'd be fighting once he released the Edo Tensei's control on himself. Would you feel the same way about Itachi destroying the Eye if he said that he doesnt know how to get the controller to release the Edo without it???
If you literally had to CHANGE SOMEONES MIND in order to get them to release the Edo Tensei (cause at that point and now Itachi STILL doesn't know how to release the Edo himself) would you STILL destroy the eye??? The only arguement you can give to this is yes b/c he has IZANAMI, but i dont think he is able to use this. I believe you can't do those two types of elevated eye techniques without Senju DNA, same way tobi did it. All speculation, of course.
Theory is too far fetched, nobody can deny that itachi is a massive liar and one who takes great care before he does or says something, but you see there is a reason behind him destroying the eye which is obvious. I do not believe he didnt destroy it.
If you say he can basically use shisui's eye more than once, why did he not use it on sasuke when he was alive. Bee asked him the exact same question and this was his response;
Finally somebody to entertain me. First of all majority of what youve said are wild assumptions that may or not be true. I will tell you why itachi isnt under ka, then ill explain to you that itachi has already used izanami.
Im sure we all know how ka works but if you dont then here you go;
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Ao said and i quote " Its one of the most powerful eye techniques. His opponents woudlnt even realise they are being controlled . Focus closely at the highlighted part. The whole point of the technique is that you are controling your opponent without them realising.
So what happens if you go against this rule?. What happens if your opponents does realise they are being controlled. That means that if your opponent realises that they are under your influence, you break free from the technique because youve gone against it and as we saw, as soon as the secret of the technique was reviewed Mifune came back to his senses. He now knows he was being controlled and if you watch throughout the summit, he went back to being 'normal';
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So yes i believe if you go against the rule of the technique which is that your opponent can control you without you realising it breaks the technique. It goes against the rule of the technique and this is where itachi comes in.
Itachi knows of the technique and infact goes into more detail than Ao about the technique. He also confirms what Ao said when he said "shisui's eye create the most powerful genjutsu, able to control an individual without them knowing". Highlighted part is important, he said without them knowing;
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. But you see, going by itachi's words and he knows how the technique works and he knows that he is being controlled therefore the whole purpose/rule of the technique has been broken. So no i do not believe itachi is under ka anymore. That only set him free.
In short, the technique is to control an opponent without them knowing. If they know they are being controlled (mifune and itachi), they break the genjutsu because they have gone against how the technique works.
Now onto izanami. If you go back to tobi vs konan, when he used izanagi, his left eye was stricken with blindness;
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Tobi's left eye went blind after using izanagi. Now izanami is its pair therefore if itachi was to use it, his right eye would be stricken with blindness
Now onto why i believe Itachi has used izanami. We all that its a pair along with izanagi;
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Please note the word PAIR. Now since they are a pair the work the same way. This is in relation to the lose of an eye. Also please note that in the image above itachi's right eye wasnt showing, thats because i believe it was prepared.
In the next image we see itachi tell sasuke to get behind him. In this image we can barely see Either of his ms design;
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This is the interesting part. This is the most interesting piece in the manga that hardly nobody else noticed. As i said izanagi and izanami are a pair. Tobi used izanagi and lost his left eye. If its a pair if a user of izanami was to use it, they would lose a right eye and you see itachi did. Look very closely at his right eye, youd notice that its you cannot see his ms design in that eye. Its his left eye that has his ms design. His right has been shut, IZANAMI;
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Also notice that since he is edo he started to regenerate after mizu tensei. I believe its not only his body that regenerated but also his eye. In the next page we see him fully regenerated and has escaped the mizu tensei but his face is facing the ground;
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In the next page notice how only his left eye is shown;
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Its only after did we get to see him fully regenerated. Meaning the right eye he lost has also been regenerated;
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Basically i do not believe itachi is under ka or is using ka against kabuto.
EDIT: As for the bonus bit i agree. Its obvious shisui gave danzo an eye and not that danzo fought and stole an eye from shisui. He gave him an eye no different to how he gave itachi the other. Shisui had the same beliefs as danzo and trusted him. Also lets be honest here even danzo after izanagi was no match for sasuke and going by shiusi's hype im certain he was stronger than ms sasuke. Secondly if danzo did beat shisui, he wouldve taken both eyes and not just one. He further stated it here, that he would take both of sasuke's eyes after he defeats him, therefore common sense says he wouldve done the same to shisui;
Damn your reply was long as HELL. But I'm on it. lol
First of all, I want you to know that Great Minds Think Alike. A thread about Itachi already activating Izanami HAS ALREADY BEEN CREATED BY ME. So I understand fully the point you are making here so i wont argue it... but as you so convienently told me, THAT IS JUST A WILD SPECULATION... Just like my current thread lol. It was a theory to back up my thread about Madara being able to "spam" Izanagi since he's Edo, which would make him "unsealable", he'd Izanagi they @$$ everytime the Kages "truly" sealed him. I used Itachi regenerating his right eye from Izanami as my basis for the arguement in this thread:
So I purposely went against my previous thread, for the fun of it
In short, the technique is to control an opponent without them knowing. If they know they are being controlled (mifune and itachi), they break the genjutsu because they have gone against how the technique works.
I'm about to use your own arguement against you now. Ok? You say that KOTO is no longer active once someone "realizes" that they are being controlled. How do you know that Danzou didnt just stop trying to control Mifune when Ao called him about about Shisui's eye...??? Please prove this to me if its your arguement.
EDO TENSEI is not something that only can be manipulated as a one time thing, Kabuto is constantly shown increasing/decreasing the hold that he has on the Edos. Which means a chakra source is connected to those that are Edo for him to be able to "change" the level that the Edo affects them mentally from moment to moment. Other Edo's have been shown to be able to "break free" of Kabuto's control over them... SO HE JUST INCREASES THE EFFECT OVER THEM.
If KOTO releases Itachi from this, it doesnt mean that Kabuto cant just try to reconnect his hold over Itachi's mind. But my point is that he CANT because the KOTO to PROTECT KONOHA remains active in his mind. For instance, Edo Madara has his OWN HATE against the people that he's fighting so Kabuto can let him think freely. But Kabuto can get complete control over Madara at any time, because the Edo is able to be manipulated, its not a one time thing. To be able to CONSTANTLY reject the EDO TENSEI you need to CONSTANTLY have the mental compacity to REJECT the edo command. The Edos revived from Konoha that were able to gain control of their own mind was only temporary, cause Kabuto can keep increasing his connection with their mind AFTER THEY HAD ALREADY BROKEN FREE OF HIS MENTAL CONTROL.
For instance, in the case of Mifune, although he eventually realized that he was being controlled, he didnt immediately "snap out of it". He was looking confused but this didnt mean that he still didnt think the Hokage was best for the position. In other words, other suggestions from the other Kage made his mind think a different way, but it didnt mean it eliminated the original thoughts in his mind that was put there by KOTO. By this time, he could no longer consider Danzou as an option when everyone found out he has the ability to control minds. Of couse he would no longer stick to his "original idea" if he thought that it might not have been his, but it doesnt mean he still doesnt realize that they werent his own thoughts. AND I DOUBT THAT DANZOU CONTINUED TO TRY TO ACTIVELY CONTROL HIS MIND AFTER SHISUI EYE WAS DISCOVERED.
Food for thought: If we found out that Itachi can't do Izanami OR it doesn't exist, HOW do you think Itachi made a plan to release the Edo Tensei when he was fighting Naruto...? Without a jutsu like Izanami to control someone's mind... HE WOULD NEED KOTO. And until it's truly used, we can't assume Itachi can use Izanami OR that it even exists. Its just specualtion as you said.
Theory is too far fetched, nobody can deny that itachi is a massive liar and one who takes great care before he does or says something, but you see there is a reason behind him destroying the eye which is obvious. I do not believe he didnt destroy it.
If you say he can basically use shisui's eye more than once, why did he not use it on sasuke when he was alive. Bee asked him the exact same question and this was his response;
Would it be such a far fetched theory if Itachi never would have said the word Izanami...? How else would he control Kabuto's mind without affecting his 5 senses???
And I honestly already explained WHY he didn't use it on Sasuke. If he wanted to do this, HE WOULD HAVE DONE IT BEFORE HE DIED. Itachi has Shisui's eye when he fought Sasuke but never used it. WHY? Its aparent that he DOES NOT WANT TO USE THE EYE AGAINST SASUKE.Just like he told Killer Bee when he asked that question, remember...?
The ONLY reason I am responding is because it says SENIOR MEMBER by your name, so maybe you will give good imput...
...ONCE YOU READ THE DAMN THREAD....
...OR ATLEAST READ OTHER PEOPLES RESPONSES...
The WHOLE REASON you stopped reading my Thread... I already commented on that issue. You would have seen this if you would just read the thread. Or atleast read the posts, someone asked me this too and I kindly told them that I answered that question in the thread. They didnt read either.
You assume Itachi burned shisui's eye. Just as we originally assumed Itachi killed Shisui to activate MS, right? All im saying is that if he decided to use KOTO on Kabuto when he was released from the Edo (b/c he says that he has a "plan" to defeat the Edo Tensei at this point) he would need to atleast ACT like he is disposing of the eye. He claimed it can be used only once every 10 years, but if this is true how did Shisui use it on a regular basis, without Hashirama's DNA? And you mean to tell me Shisui gave Itachi his eye TO USE ONCE EVERY 10 YEARS? HELL NO.
And if he didnt really want the eye to be used, WHY NOT JUST DESTROY IT INSTEAD OF GIVING IT AWAY? Please elaborate, I'm listening.
About your bullet points, i'll respond to the first 2:
1.He used Ametarasu on the crow, if that is'nt destroying it then what is? He could'nt have faked it, the only way that would be possible would be if Naruto were put under genjutsu, but Bee was also there, he saw the crow being destroyed as well.
2. Itachi already stated that the time for Koto Amatsukami to be used could be decreased to less than 10 years by using Hashirama' dna, although he said it was unlikely.
1) Itachi NEVER destroyed Shisui’s eye. Since both himself and Nagato were being controlled by Kabuto, AND Kabuto could “see” that Itachi had Shisui’s eye, he was FORCED to “act” like he destroyed it. This way, Kabuto, Tobi, Madara, or no one else would try to obtain this eye.
This is proven false by the fact that Itachi was acting on his own when he destroyed Shisui's eye. Kabuto did not realize Itachi had Shisui's eye until it was used. It was destroyed for 2 reasons. 1) No one could gain access to such a powerful eye technique and 2) It would take a decade for it to recharge for Naruto so it was useless in his hands (Naruto does not possess Hashirama's DNA to shorten the time length).
2) Itachi lied when he said that Shisui’s eye can only be used once every 10 years; this is only PARTIALLY correct. Shisui could perform this technique “regularly”, so what is the difference? The difference is Shisui’s chakra; its either Shisui’s own chakra or the chakra of a true Uchiha that allows you to use the jutsu on a regular basis. Danzou needed Hashirama’s cells (other than not being an Uchiha) to activate Shisui’s KOTO and b/c he had multiple sharigans, and he wanted to perform Izanagi, which needs Senju DNA.
We have no information as to how many times Shisui could perform Kotoamatsukami. Never assume.
Danzo actually had Shisui's arm which has Shisui's Chakra. Ao was able to see Shisui's chakra running from Danzo's right eye and throughout his right arm. As for needing Senju DNA, the main purpose of Senju DNA is to enhance stamina and chakra. Kakashi gets worn out fairly quickly by using just 1 Sharingan, imagine how much strain 11 Sharingans would cause. Danzo needed Hashirama's DNA in order to withstand the strain of using Shisui's MS and to be able to use 10 Sharingans at once.
Izanagi is a Uchiha jutsu just like Izanami. It does not require Senju DNA in order to use. Senju DNA extends the time period of the technique.
FROM NARUTOWIKI: Danzō had some of Hashirama Senju's DNA transplanted into his arm, which extended the lifespan of each Sharingan's Izanagi to a minute.
3) There was not 10 years in between Shisui’s death and when Itachi used KOTO on himself as an Edo. My assumption is Itachi is able to use KOTO now on Kabuto/Sasuke either b/c his crow has Shisui’s chakra in it, or b/c the crow has Uchiha chakra in it in general. Itachi never had Hashirama’s cells, FYI…. SO HOW ELSE IS THE CROW ABLE TO USE KOTO ON ITACHI WITHOUT HAVING HASHIRAMA’S CELLS LIKE DANZOU???
Actually, 10 years did pass since Shisui died but that would be right around the time of the Uchiha massacre. Shisui could have used the technique one last time prior to his sacrifice. Again, Koto does not require Senju DNA to use. Hashirama's DNA only helps with the recovery.
4) Itachi tells us that Kabuto doesn’t realize the true strength of the Uchiha. He makes this comment after Kabuto tells them that their GENJUTSUS will be no effect to him. Itachi was correct in saying that “Uchiha eyes have a power able to affect the enemy regardless of their 5 senses”. This is true about Kotoamatsukami, a genjutsu that affects the MIND directly without alerting the other 5 senses. This is why Shisui was so deadly, a master of Genjutsu, and where Itachi learned his Genjutsu skills.
5) Itachi tells Sasuke that “Izanami” has already been prepared. In my opinion, he prepared “this” (KOTO) even before he went into the room with Kabuto. Everything that Kabuto is explaining to the Uchiha brothers about his powers & past is b/c of the KOTO. Kabuto is basically telling them his entire history as he knows it to be, HOW he got all of his powers, WHAT all of his powers do, and WHERE he obtained everything that he is currently possessing. All this, while continuously telling himself that he is “unstoppable”, which I’m sure makes him comfortable to tell them ALL OF HIS PLANS. This is all done by Itachi’s manipulation.
This can possibly be the effect of Izanami. As you probably know, Kishimoto loves to add flashbacks before he kills the character. You're over exaggerating. Kabuto is only telling them about his past. He is not explaining his powers or where he obtained everything. He already told them he got Sage Mode and used Jugo, Karin and Suigetsu's cells. Like you said, he thinks he's unstoppable so telling them his history will cause him no harm.
6) Itachi will use KOTO to force Kabuto to release Edo Tensei and “possibly” to change Sasuke’s mind about attacking the village. He will die with the release of the Edo and leave Kabuto’s death for Sasuke to complete. (Note: Itachi apologized after the 1st time Kabuto killed him, but he’s EDO. So why did he apologize…? I think that Itachi “might not” keep his promise to talk to Sasuke after they defeat Kabuto. I’ll be watching to see.)
If Itachi still had access to Kotoamatsukami, he would have used it against Sasuke and Kabuto as soon as he saw them. Itachi did apologize after getting hit by Kabuto's Sage Mode technique. Please ask yourself why Itachi was hit by these rocks but he was able to put up Susano'o against Kirin. Itachi was also able to dodge ALL of Killerbee's swords which a master swordsman and a MS Sharingan user could not keep up with.
He may have taken the hit on purpose. You clearly see his eyes blacked out right after he was hit. He might have used Izanami at this point and just took the hit in order to regenerate his eyes without looking too obvious. This is all up for debate though, just mere speculations.
(Bonus Note: I think Shisui GAVE Danzou his other eye, Danzou did NOT take it from him. Shisui also knew about the Uchiha takeover, but had the same ideals as Danzou. The Uchiha Takeover initially started when Tobi attempted to invade the village with the 9 Tails and failed; all the adult Uchiha at this time were missing, and Itachi was left to care for baby Sasuke. I believe Shisui originally was asked to carry out the task of murdering the Uchiha clan but was unable to do so. So, instead of killing the Clan, he gave both his eyes away to help this cause and quietly asked Itachi to dispose of his body. I believe Itachi used Shisui’s eye to help when he killed every Uchiha in the village. Please don’t argue this theory in the thread, just a small theory of mine, FYI.)
If you don't want this theory argued then don't post it in the same thread. Danzo was clearly corrupted so it is very likely that he took the eye by force. He was actually strong in his prime (rivaled Hiruzen) so I would not be surprised. From what I've seen so far, Danzo is the type of person who would do that. There's no way Shisui's eye was used during the massacre.
1.He used Ametarasu on the crow, if that is'nt destroying it then what is? He could'nt have faked it, the only way that would be possible would be if Naruto were put under genjutsu, but Bee was also there, he saw the crow being destroyed as well.
2. Itachi already stated that the time for Koto Amatsukami to be used could be decreased to less than 10 years by using Hashirama' dna, although he said it was unlikely.
Your point #1 is invalid dude. First of all, Itachi EFFORTLESSLY put Killer Bee into a genjutsu while they were fighting. When Itachi released the Edo on himself everyone regarded Itachi as a comrade and they would have had their guard down to his genjutsu. IM SURE THEY ALL WERE LOOKING HIM IN THE EYES AT THIS POINT AFTER HE SEALED NAGATO. hmmmm.
Your point #2 is also invalid, because I agree with it lol. I already know AND said that KOTO could be extended with Hashirama's cells. But Itachi never had Hashirama's DNA, if so prove it. This means everyone thinks Shisui gave Itachi his eye, with only the ability to use it once every 10 years, KNOWS ITS THE ULTIMATE WEAPON IN THE WRONG HANDS, and did NOT destroy the eye. Makes no sense... unless he meant for Itachi to USE it. I assume he used it in the Uchiha massacre, but Im not Kishi.
Your point #1 is invalid dude. First of all, Itachi EFFORTLESSLY put Killer Bee into a genjutsu while they were fighting. When Itachi released the Edo on himself everyone regarded Itachi as a comrade and they would have had their guard down to his genjutsu. IM SURE THEY ALL WERE LOOKING HIM IN THE EYES AT THIS POINT AFTER HE SEALED NAGATO. hmmmm.
Your point #2 is also invalid, because I agree with it lol. I already know AND said that KOTO could be extended with Hashirama's cells. But Itachi never had Hashirama's DNA, if so prove it. This means everyone thinks Shisui gave Itachi his eye, with only the ability to use it once every 10 years, KNOWS ITS THE ULTIMATE WEAPON IN THE WRONG HANDS, and did NOT destroy the eye. Makes no sense... unless he meant for Itachi to USE it. I assume he used it in the Uchiha massacre, but Im not Kishi.
*sigh*
1. No you missed my point completely. You have a problem with comprehension? I was saying that Itachi has never been shown to be able to put 2 people under genjutsu at the same time. Sure he can put Bee under genjutsu, or Naruto but not both simultaneously w/o them noticing.
2. And how does any of that prove that Itachi's faking Izanami? You fail. Shisui's eye would'nt have been needed, for starters how would Itachi even have known that Kabuto would have been as tough as he is now? Even for S rank shinobi like Orochimaru, tsukyomi was enough so why would Itachi feel the need to secretly keep Shisui's eye? At that point when he met Naruto and Bee, Itachi had no intention of even meeting Sasuke , so its not like he would have saved it for him.
This is proven false by the fact that Itachi was acting on his own when he destroyed Shisui's eye. Kabuto did not realize Itachi had Shisui's eye until it was used. It was destroyed for 2 reasons. 1) No one could gain access to such a powerful eye technique and 2) It would take a decade for it to recharge for Naruto so it was useless in his hands (Naruto does not possess Hashirama's DNA to shorten the time length).
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MilwaukeegHost Deletes a SHIT load of information here to shorten post lol
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If you don't want this theory argued then don't post it in the same thread. Danzo was clearly corrupted so it is very likely that he took the eye by force. He was actually strong in his prime (rivaled Hiruzen) so I would not be surprised. From what I've seen so far, Danzo is the type of person who would do that. There's no way Shisui's eye was used during the massacre.
AH... Another extremely long post. I know my thread is kinda long people, but please dont refute EVERY point in one message lol. But I'm on it. Your posts will be BOLDED, mine not.
This is proven false by the fact that Itachi was acting on his own when he destroyed Shisui's eye. Kabuto did not realize Itachi had Shisui's eye until it was used. It was destroyed for 2 reasons. 1) No one could gain access to such a powerful eye technique and 2) It would take a decade for it to recharge for Naruto so it was useless in his hands (Naruto does not possess Hashirama's DNA to shorten the time length).
You are HELPING my point here. I want you to think about this logically. I know that Kabuto didnt know about the eye until Itachi used it, I'm not argueing that. But if you are saying that the eye was destroyed so 1) No one could get access to so much power 2) It can only be used 1 time every 10 years ....
WHY WOULD SHISUI GIVE IT TO ITACHI INSTEAD OF DESTROYING IT THEN???
You are trying to tell me that Shisui gave the eye to Itachi knowing how dangerous it would be if it fell into the wrong hands AND knows he could only use it every 10 years? This makes no sense sir. Shisui gave him the eye so he could USE it and he TRUSTED that Itachi would not get it taken. Itachi never took the eye so he could use it one time and then destroy it. Seriously.
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We have no information as to how many times Shisui could perform Kotoamatsukami. Never assume.
I'm just assuming that he could use it MORE THAN ONE TIME EVERY 10 YEARS. And I guarantee Itachi is using it w/o Hashirama's cells. Seriously.
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Danzo actually had Shisui's arm which has Shisui's Chakra. Ao was able to see Shisui's chakra running from Danzo's right eye and throughout his right arm. As for needing Senju DNA, the main purpose of Senju DNA is to enhance stamina and chakra. Kakashi gets worn out fairly quickly by using just 1 Sharingan, imagine how much strain 11 Sharingans would cause. Danzo needed Hashirama's DNA in order to withstand the strain of using Shisui's MS and to be able to use 10 Sharingans at once.
Ok. Most of your points are argueing the fact that I'm using speculation, but you are doing the same thing. Just b/c Ao saw shisui's chakra does NOT mean he had Shisui's arm. The arm obviously has Hashiramas cells in it and it ONLY... when Danzou lost control of Hashi's cells it was in the ARM only. So how do you know he didnt have an Arm of hashi's cells with Shisui's chakra inside it? If so prove this in the manga please.
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Izanagi is a Uchiha jutsu just like Izanami. It does not require Senju DNA in order to use. Senju DNA extends the time period of the technique.
Again, you argue my theory with more speculation. Atleast I say mine are theories from the start lol. Again, PROVE to me that you can do either of those techniques without Hashirama's cells. It's obvious Tobi has Hashi's cells, hence the Army. FYI
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FROM NARUTOWIKI: Danzō had some of Hashirama Senju's DNA transplanted into his arm, which extended the lifespan of each Sharingan's Izanagi to a minute.
I dont know the point of this, first of all Narutowiki is not run by Kishi. And second, this would lead me to believe that he DIDNT have Shisui's arm or it would have said this here. #Boom
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Actually, 10 years did pass since Shisui died but that would be right around the time of the Uchiha massacre. Shisui could have used the technique one last time prior to his sacrifice. Again, Koto does not require Senju DNA to use. Hashirama's DNA only helps with the recovery.
I know KOTO doesnt require Senju DNA to use, THATS MY ARGUEMENT. I said that Izanagi/mi need Senju DNA, not KOTO. And this was the only fail part of the Thread, it has been 10 years since he used it last. But this doesnt argue away the main point of this Thread.
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This can possibly be the effect of Izanami. As you probably know, Kishimoto loves to add flashbacks before he kills the character. You're over exaggerating. Kabuto is only telling them about his past. He is not explaining his powers or where he obtained everything. He already told them he got Sage Mode and used Jugo, Karin and Suigetsu's cells. Like you said, he thinks he's unstoppable so telling them his history will cause him no harm.
You said he's not explaining their powers, or where he got everything. Ok. Then you say that Kabuto told them about his new sage powers and where he recieved the body upgrades. You dont think telling your enemy that you have the DNA of his old team (Sasuke, TAKA) isnt HELPING them to beat you??? He told a Lightning user that he got WATER body upgrades. WTF.
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If Itachi still had access to Kotoamatsukami, he would have used it against Sasuke and Kabuto as soon as he saw them. Itachi did apologize after getting hit by Kabuto's Sage Mode technique. Please ask yourself why Itachi was hit by these rocks but he was able to put up Susano'o against Kirin. Itachi was also able to dodge ALL of Killerbee's swords which a master swordsman and a MS Sharingan user could not keep up with.
Dude, I dont think your understanding my points at all. Itachi told Killer Bee that he NEVER INTENDED to use KOTO against Sasuke. Itachi told us why he didnt use that jutsu on his brother man. And I already said that he DID use it against Kabuto, HE'S CONTROLING HIS THOUGHTS NOW. Itachi got hit by the rock b/c HE'S EDO and there is no need to always protect himself in pinch situations, HE KNOWS HE WILL REGENERATE. Sheesh.
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He may have taken the hit on purpose. You clearly see his eyes blacked out right after he was hit. He might have used Izanami at this point and just took the hit in order to regenerate his eyes without looking too obvious. This is all up for debate though, just mere speculations.
I'm sure he did take the hit on purpose. He "may" have used Izanami at this point, but in the PREVIOUS manga it states that the jutsu has been activated, on the last page. This happened a manga before he was "killed". FYI this is something I originally thought too.
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If you don't want this theory argued then don't post it in the same thread. Danzo was clearly corrupted so it is very likely that he took the eye by force. He was actually strong in his prime (rivaled Hiruzen) so I would not be surprised. From what I've seen so far, Danzo is the type of person who would do that. There's no way Shisui's eye was used during the massacre.
I only asked people not to argue this point so SOMEONE WOULDNT INCLUDE IT INTO AN ALREADY LONG @$$ POST. lol
How do you know there is NO WAY shisui's eye was used in the massacre? This is exactly why I didnt want people to argue this theory. NO ONE has seen footage of the massacre, but we are led to believe he killed EVERYONE without a genjutsu as strong as KOTO. Speculations.
Lol that would be a funny scenario
sasuke-*so you gonna use izanami now?
Itachi-*pshhhhh izanami who! Plz i just made that up.... Foolish little brother hahahaha*.
Also, It has been 10 years since since Shisui's death and now, because Shisui clearly died before the Uchiha Massacre and Sasuke was still a young child at that time.
Sasuke and Naruto are 16 or 17 now. It's been over 10 years.
It may not have been 10 years since Shisui's death, but it's probably been 10 years since Shisui last used his Kotoamatsukami.
To the OP, when was it stated that Shisui can use Koto "regularly?"
MilwaukeegHost, if your only intentions are lying and corrupting facts to support your theories then this thread is worthless. Naruto Wiki is not inaccurate. Judging by some of the so called facts you've presented yourself, I doubt you even understand some of the things mentioned in the manga. Everything I posted is taken from the context of the manga and everything that Kishimoto published so far.
It is a fact that Shisui gave Itachi his eye. Why would he do that? They shared the same goal and Shisui assumed Itachi was the perfect candidate to carry out his mission of peace and protection of Konoha. This was in the manga. Two characters confirmed it. Just because it's meant to be one time use does not make this technique useless.
It is a fact that Hashirama DNA is only used to extend the time period of Izanagi. This is not a speculation.
It is a fact that Danzo had Shisui's right arm.
IZANAMI/ IZANAGI DOES NOT REQUIRE SENJU DNA TO USE. THEY ARE BOTH UCHIHA TECHNIQUES. Not sure if I clarified that enough.
Kotoamatsukami does not require Senju DNA to use. However, due to the amount of time it takes to recharge, it is only good for one time use unless the time is shortened using Hashirama's DNA. I.E Danzo. Shisui's chakra was probably special in being able to cast this MS technique more often. This is why Danzo had his right arm/chakra. But then again, we don't know how many times Shisui could cast Kotoamatsukami. For all we know, Kotoamatsukami could have been a technique much like Izanami and Izanagi to Shisui.
Shisui's eye was not used in the massacre. There is no use in using the eye. Who would be controlled and why? Tobi and Itachi wiped out the clan. That's a good enough explanation. Stop looking into things that are fine.
I would stop trying to deface the above facts as they were clearly confirmed. They are not speculations or theories like your post.
You're clearly not very good at debating when put in the spot. Try again.
About your bullet points, i'll respond to the first 2:
1.He used Ametarasu on the crow, if that is'nt destroying it then what is? He could'nt have faked it, the only way that would be possible would be if Naruto were put under genjutsu, but Bee was also there, he saw the crow being destroyed as well.
2. Itachi already stated that the time for Koto Amatsukami to be used could be decreased to less than 10 years by using Hashirama' dna, although he said it was unlikely.
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*sigh*
1. No you missed my point completely. You have a problem with comprehension? I was saying that Itachi has never been shown to be able to put 2 people under genjutsu at the same time. Sure he can put Bee under genjutsu, or Naruto but not both simultaneously w/o them noticing.
2. And how does any of that prove that Itachi's faking Izanami? You fail. Shisui's eye would'nt have been needed, for starters how would Itachi even have known that Kabuto would have been as tough as he is now? Even for S rank shinobi like Orochimaru, tsukyomi was enough so why would Itachi feel the need to secretly keep Shisui's eye? At that point when he met Naruto and Bee, Itachi had no intention of even meeting Sasuke , so its not like he would have saved it for him.
(For #1)...why do I have to a problem with comprehension? You people are ruthless lol. I pasted your old message above it just in case you forgot what you originally wrote. No where in your point #1 do you say that ITACHI CANNOT PUT 2 PEOPLE IN GENJUTSU AT ONCE. A master of genjutsu, at that. I know you "implied" this, but this is not a KNOWN fact in Narutoverse. So why would I or anyone else assume this is what you meant. If so, please show me in the Manga where it says you can only put one person in a genjutsu at a time. Oh right, your ASS-uming. I'm waiting for the manga/page. If not, please do not argue my theories with more theories.
(For #2) Dude, you are taking the word "theory" too far. Its used when something is not or has not been fully PROVED to be a fact, or I would call my thread FACTS and not THEORIES. Jesus. And FYI, Itachi doesnt HAVE to know how "strong" the opponent is. He knows that Edo Tensei needs to be released and HE DOESNT KNOW HOW TO DO IT. So when he says he has a "plan" it is because he realizes he needs a jutsu to control someones mind, a Genjutsu. According to your comment, he shouldnt have been able to come up with a plan using "izanami" at this moment either, since he didnt know the "true" strength of his opponent. #Fail
Now for the last part. I never said Itachi planned to use it for Sasuke, he didnt have to know he would bump into him. I actually said the exact opposite, although he MAY use it on Sasuke, I dont think he would, or he would have BEEN done it. He told Killer Bee he never planned to use KOTO on Sasuke, remember?
You also say that Itachi never needed Shisui's eye, that tsukyomi was "good enough" for most shinobi cause it worked on Orochimaru. If this is true... WHY WOULD HE EVER TAKE THE EYE FROM SHISUI IN THE BEGINNING INSTEAD OF DESTROYING IT SO IT WONT FALL INTO ENEMY HANDS...? B/c he planned to USE IT, regardless of his mastery of tsukyomi. #FailAgain
Finally somebody to entertain me. First of all majority of what youve said are wild assumptions that may or not be true. I will tell you why itachi isnt under ka, then ill explain to you that itachi has already used izanami.
Im sure we all know how ka works but if you dont then here you go;
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Ao said and i quote " Its one of the most powerful eye techniques. His opponents woudlnt even realise they are being controlled . Focus closely at the highlighted part. The whole point of the technique is that you are controling your opponent without them realising.
So what happens if you go against this rule?. What happens if your opponents does realise they are being controlled. That means that if your opponent realises that they are under your influence, you break free from the technique because youve gone against it and as we saw, as soon as the secret of the technique was reviewed Mifune came back to his senses. He now knows he was being controlled and if you watch throughout the summit, he went back to being 'normal';
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So yes i believe if you go against the rule of the technique which is that your opponent can control you without you realising it breaks the technique. It goes against the rule of the technique and this is where itachi comes in.
Itachi knows of the technique and infact goes into more detail than Ao about the technique. He also confirms what Ao said when he said "shisui's eye create the most powerful genjutsu, able to control an individual without them knowing". Highlighted part is important, he said without them knowing;
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. But you see, going by itachi's words and he knows how the technique works and he knows that he is being controlled therefore the whole purpose/rule of the technique has been broken. So no i do not believe itachi is under ka anymore. That only set him free.
In short, the technique is to control an opponent without them knowing. If they know they are being controlled (mifune and itachi), they break the genjutsu because they have gone against how the technique works.
Now onto izanami. If you go back to tobi vs konan, when he used izanagi, his left eye was stricken with blindness;
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Tobi's left eye went blind after using izanagi. Now izanami is its pair therefore if itachi was to use it, his right eye would be stricken with blindness
Now onto why i believe Itachi has used izanami. We all that its a pair along with izanagi;
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Please note the word PAIR. Now since they are a pair the work the same way. This is in relation to the lose of an eye. Also please note that in the image above itachi's right eye wasnt showing, thats because i believe it was prepared.
In the next image we see itachi tell sasuke to get behind him. In this image we can barely see Either of his ms design;
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This is the interesting part. This is the most interesting piece in the manga that hardly nobody else noticed. As i said izanagi and izanami are a pair. Tobi used izanagi and lost his left eye. If its a pair if a user of izanami was to use it, they would lose a right eye and you see itachi did. Look very closely at his right eye, youd notice that its you cannot see his ms design in that eye. Its his left eye that has his ms design. His right has been shut, IZANAMI;
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Also notice that since he is edo he started to regenerate after mizu tensei. I believe its not only his body that regenerated but also his eye. In the next page we see him fully regenerated and has escaped the mizu tensei but his face is facing the ground;
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In the next page notice how only his left eye is shown;
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Its only after did we get to see him fully regenerated. Meaning the right eye he lost has also been regenerated;
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Basically i do not believe itachi is under ka or is using ka against kabuto.
EDIT: As for the bonus bit i agree. Its obvious shisui gave danzo an eye and not that danzo fought and stole an eye from shisui. He gave him an eye no different to how he gave itachi the other. Shisui had the same beliefs as danzo and trusted him. Also lets be honest here even danzo after izanagi was no match for sasuke and going by shiusi's hype im certain he was stronger than ms sasuke. Secondly if danzo did beat shisui, he wouldve taken both eyes and not just one. He further stated it here, that he would take both of sasuke's eyes after he defeats him, therefore common sense says he wouldve done the same to shisui;
Nice theory/thread bro
I believe most of this is possible but inception and blaze release make alot of sense
i'm just gonna wait the manga out to see the truth
I'm sorry, but my work computer wont allow me to multi-post for some odd reason. My response to Darthvader6666 is below:
It may not have been 10 years since Shisui's death, but it's probably been 10 years since Shisui last used his Kotoamatsukami.
To the OP, when was it stated that Shisui can use Koto "regularly?"
You are absolutely right on both accounts. I has been 10 years since the eye was used last, I noticed that error after I posted.
It is never stated that he could use "regularly" in the manga, true. I put this as a theory b/c Shisui is KNOWN as the most powerful genjutsu wielder amoung the Uchiha. And the only person we have record of him fighting, he says he used it on him and he will never forget that chakra signature because of the battle. But when a character has NEVER been shown in the manga (alive), mostly everything is theory.
MilwaukeegHost, if your only intentions are lying and corrupting facts to support your theories then this thread is worthless. Naruto Wiki is not inaccurate. Judging by some of the so called facts you've presented yourself, I doubt you even understand some of the things mentioned in the manga. Everything I posted is taken from the context of the manga and everything that Kishimoto published so far.
It is a fact that Shisui gave Itachi his eye. Why would he do that? They shared the same goal and Shisui assumed Itachi was the perfect candidate to carry out his mission of peace and protection of Konoha. This was in the manga. Two characters confirmed it. Just because it's meant to be one time use does not make this technique useless.
It is a fact that Hashirama DNA is only used to extend the time period of Izanagi. This is not a speculation.
It is a fact that Danzo had Shisui's right arm.
IZANAMI/ IZANAGI DOES NOT REQUIRE SENJU DNA TO USE. THEY ARE BOTH UCHIHA TECHNIQUES. Not sure if I clarified that enough.
Kotoamatsukami does not require Senju DNA to use. However, due to the amount of time it takes to recharge, it is only good for one time use unless the time is shortened using Hashirama's DNA. I.E Danzo. Shisui's chakra was probably special in being able to cast this MS technique more often. This is why Danzo had his right arm/chakra. But then again, we don't know how many times Shisui could cast Kotoamatsukami. For all we know, Kotoamatsukami could have been a technique much like Izanami and Izanagi to Shisui.
Shisui's eye was not used in the massacre. There is no use in using the eye. Who would be controlled and why? Tobi and Itachi wiped out the clan. That's a good enough explanation. Stop looking into things that are fine.
I would stop trying to deface the above facts as they were clearly confirmed. They are not speculations or theories like your post.
You're clearly not very good at debating when put in the spot. Try again.
"MilwaukeegHost, if your only intentions are lying and corrupting facts to support your theories then this thread is worthless."
...Well, DAMN! lol again, you people are ruthless with the theory threads lol. But I'll TRY to keep it civil. Your comments in BOLD.
Just because it's meant to be one time use does not make this technique useless.
Your correct. But think about this. Everyone says Itachi burned the eye cause it can be only used once every 10 years. I'm just saying if Itachi burned the eye b/c its too dangerous to leave in existance TODAY, it should have also been too dangerous to leave in existance back in the day when he gave it to Itachi originally. I just dont believe Shisui gave it to Itachi to just use once knowing it could possibly fall into the wrong hands in the meantime. Personal opinion, thats all.
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It is a fact that Hashirama DNA is only used to extend the time period of Izanagi. This is not a speculation.
Ok! Its a Fact! List the Manga and page so I can see this fact, kind sir. OR atleast show me someone WITHOUT Hashirama's cells that was able to perform Izanagi. I'd hate to think your using assumptions to fight theories, which are the same thing lol.
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It is a fact that Danzo had Shisui's right arm
Ok! Its a Fact! List the Manga and page so I can see this fact also, kind sir. Because last I saw in the Manga Danzou LOST HIS ARM because it was a compilation of Hashirama's cells that went out of control. No mention of it being Shisui's arm. When Hashirama's cells went out of control, it was the arm and the arm only that showed it was composed of Hashi's cells. Ao said that he saw Shisui's CHAKRA, not arm. FYI.
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IZANAMI/ IZANAGI DOES NOT REQUIRE SENJU DNA TO USE. THEY ARE BOTH UCHIHA TECHNIQUES. Not sure if I clarified that enough.
Ok! Its a Fact! List the Manga and page so i can see this fact also, kind sir. Does it sound like I'm repeating myself? LOL. Please prove to me that someone has been able to do EITHER technique without Hashi's cells. You can't. Must mean you were using theory to disprove my theory. SMH
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For all we know, Kotoamatsukami could have been a technique much like Izanami and Izanagi to Shisui.
Ok. I wont slam you, since i think your NOT saying this is a fact this time lol. But I dont know how Izanami/gi is a technique like KOTO b/c you dont lose your eye when you use it. If you mean it can be only rarely used, ok, but i dont see the point here.
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Shisui's eye was not used in the massacre. There is no use in using the eye. Who would be controlled and why? Tobi and Itachi wiped out the clan. That's a good enough explanation. Stop looking into things that are fine.
Ok! Its a Fact! List the Manga and page so i can see this fact also, kind sir. Also, I asked everyone NOT TO ARGUE THAT POINT. It is a personal opinion that I definetally cant prove OR disprove b/c no footage of the massacre has been shown. Man. You say he COULDNT have used the eye, but he definetally had possession of it. It was given to him right before he did that, and you dont think he would have used it? Oh and he could have used it to make someone think they are doing a good move in combat but its actually just to put you into a position to recieve a fatal blow in the fight. I'm just saying.
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I would stop trying to deface the above facts as they were clearly confirmed. They are not speculations or theories like your post.
You're clearly not very good at debating when put in the spot. Try again.
OMG... almost EVERY point you brought up, I have just shown to be ONLY your own theories. None of the information that you use to disprove me is a verified fact. You have an extremely long post of assumptions to disprove my theory. WTF. #UTTERFail
