Isn't this the perfect moment for Sasuke to lose his EMS ( Momentarily ) ?

KCMNaruto

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Epic thread and I completly agree :)

I would like to see them both relying on their own powers(MS and SM) for time being until they regains their previous borrowed powers(EMS and Kurama).

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chaos control

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Please read before posting

As we all know , Naruto lost Yang Kurama :
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Naruto probably can survive a Bijuu extraction like his mother , but unlike his mother he won't last as long as her because he is half Uzuamki.

And both character would die after that surviving time.

There are 3 way he can be healed ( i don't think Tsunade or Sakura can heal him in this state ) :

1) Karin : An Uzumaki that can transfer her life force to heal people , but the thing is that she already did it to heal Tsunade , and its dangerous for her to use it more than once a day ( wiki ). ( so i don't think that she will do it unless she wants to sacrifice herself for Naruto which seems unlikely since she only like Sasuke ).


2) Minato: Minato can transfer the Yin Kurama to Naruto but here is why i don't think that's gonna work :

Minato is busy fighting BZ Obito and don't have a marking on Naruto ( only Tobirama has ).
His Kurama is the Yin version and we all know that only the Yang is synonym of life force and high chakra reserve.


And now the third option : Sasuke

I know that you are shocked about this option but hear me out for bit :

Sasuke can use Izanagi to heal Naruto.

Now you are even more shocked and you're probably thinking , How in the hell can Sasuke use Izanagi ? How it can save Naruto ? And Why would he waste his EMS to heal Naruto ?

Lets answer the first one :
Sasuke knows the seals of the activation of Izanagi :
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And the seals of stopping it :
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And he probably read the Uchiha tablet before or after talking to the Edo Kages.

Now the second one :

Izanagi can erase any outcome the user don't want including death itself , and in order to save Naruto , Sasuke would have just to put his hand on Naruto and use Izanagi to restore him.

I believe that Izanagi work like FTG , meaning that in normal condition it affect only its user but if user is touching something via his body or chakra , then the jutsu can work on the target.

And we've seen Minato doing this constantly with his FTG.

Now the third one :
EMS's light is inextinguishable as Itachi said , now some might argue that's only works for MS techniques , others says that's for all techniques including Izanagi and Izanami.

But the thing is that nobody has definite proof on those claims so there is room for speculation here :

So i think that EMS don't lose its light while performing the two Uchiha Kinjutsu , but if Kishi choose this way then he have to come up with a lesser restraint for those Kinjutsu ( otherwise EMS users would be invincible ) and i think that it might be this :

If the EMS user perform either one of those Kinjutsu , he will lose his EMS for a specific amounts of time ( in both eyes ) but no more than a day.

Conclusion :
And as such we will end up with 3T Sharingan Sasuke and SM Naruto and those version of Naruto and Sasuke will represent perfectly the Elder son and the Younger son ( albeit much weaker )

And here is one of the REASONS why :

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And in this case Naruto and Sasuke would be using a less browned power
( Sasuke's eyes are technically not his ( Itachi's eyes ) and Naruto'SM is technically not his power ( Nature power )
) before receiving their final massive power up.
Thanks for reading
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Bolded : Are you serious!? Did you seriously just say that?! I can accept people saying that BM is borrowed, but sage mode is where I draw the line! Gathering sage chakara is a technique! It is a technique!!!!! Not everyone can do it! It is no different from a jutsu! By your logic, all earth style jutsus are borrowed power because the rocks they use belong to the earth and not the shinobi! By your logic, water style jutsus that are used near a body of water are borrowed power because the water belongs to the body of water! Sage mode is no different. It is actually a technique to gather nature energy! It is something a shinobi must know how to do! They must actually learn it just like you must learn any other jutsu! Pain even once called it "sage jutsu"! It is purely a technique! Techniques that you train for and learn are not borrowed power!!!!! Nature is not a person!!!!
 

BlinkST

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This is a perfect moment for Sasuke to jump in and grab Kurama for himself.
 

xxSAGExx

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Well i think that they will both meet the Rikuudo and plus they are not alone right now.

Thanks bro =D

Sasuke demonstrated that he stills cares for Naruto.
We don't know if that work on the EMS or not ( please read my entire post ).

I was saying that its possible that Izanagi works the same way as FTG , i didn't compare what can Izanagi do to what can FTG do.

That's why its a theory.
Its technically not his because he wasn't born with it , but he can control and master it so it doesn't matter.

Sasuke looks like he severed his bond to Naruto while saying he'll be the one to delete the past and .

3T Sharingan and Naruto' SM have the same feats.

Also Sasuke has many techniques ( including a mountain busting one like Kirin ) and summons.

3T Sharingan Sasuke can rival SM Naruto U_U

Nope, 3T Sasuke rivals Base Naruto. Sasuke can't effectively use his chidori or it's variations without his sharingan so that would leave kenjutsus, taijutsus, summoning and fire jutsus, Naruto base was able to fight off Deva path (Kage level) off in taijutsu, showed he can counter kenjutsu when he fought the 2 cloud jounins where he blocked one from pulling out their sword while making a clone to catch the other jounin's sword that even made her go "Woah".

Naruto shown to emit wind chakra into a kunai when Asuma taught him so Chidori infused katana wouldn't be effective. Naruto can use Oodama Rasengan barrage that can end Sasuke without the Sharingan to help him evade or counter. For 3T or MS, they go for a strike with kenjutsu or taijutsu then SM would counter and 1 hit them like so .

Sasuke has both Hawks and Snakes summons ( each hand has a contract , Jiraiya said that in order to summon you need to use the hand you signed the contract with and Sasuke use the right for Snakes and the left for Hawks )

The Sasuke that fought Ay had a slightly bruised vision ( due to his Ama and Tsuku against Bee ) and now he has Itachi's eyes.
Do i need to tell you how better Itachi's eyes are ?

Kirin that was used against Itachi took 1 Amaterasu and 2 Goryuka , so its not that much prep time.

You do know Sasuke needs the Sharingan to use Kirin right? Kirin is a target destruction attack, he need to read your movements so he can accurately hit you. SM Naruto literally went from point A to point B in seconds when he needed to (When he saved Tsunade from Asura path)
 

Mr Hiru

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The only thing I could argue about all your statements is the following sentence...

His Kurama is the Yin version and we all know that only the Yang is synonym of life force and high chakra reserve.

Yang is the representation of Lifeforce and Physical Energy (the last one is one of the components of chakra along with Spiritual Energy).

Chakra molding is determined with both Yin and Yang power (Physical Energy + Spiritual Energy).



...if this weren't true, Hashirama's chakra reserves would be incredibly higher than Madara's chakra reserves, but they were almost even in stamina/chakra in the end of the battle in VotE.



---

But don't mind that detail. Your overall logic was quite the sound of good reasoning, and I agree in general terms.

The only thing that I don't like is that Sasuke is very pragmatic, and saving Naruto in this case wouldn't do any good to Konoha from an objective point of view. It's not worth of sacrificing his EMS, even if this is a temporary measure... he would do something more plot-wise, if you catch me. Oh well, that's just my most humble opinion.

Good thread + rep, almost flawless, this was quite worth of my time.
 
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Ahmed1993

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Danzo released the Izanagi and hence the scratch remained even after when he activated it back.
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Izanagi redirected Danzo to the point when he got the scratch from the Susano'o. That's what I'm saying, the jutsu only works for the user of Izanagi, and so Sasuke cannot use that Izanagi to save Naruto because Izanagi will only redirect Sasuke to the point where Sasuke activated it. Naruto will remain the same as shown in the current chapter.Obito, at the start, tried to Kamui the blast and in that process his arm got destroyed. But then afterwards, he used Izanagi and get himself caught into the blast without doing anything. This image,

only proves that Obito used Izanagi at this point of the situation.
Minato teleported Naruto and Sasuke only twice.
One, when Juubito grabbed them both with their faces. Since Naruto made a contact between the two through Kyuubi's chakra, Minato was able to connect his own chakra with the kyuubi's and hence could teleport him.
Two, when the four Juubi bijuudamas were about to destroy everything inside the barrier. Everyone except Juugo and Sasuke didn't had the shared chakra which Naruto shared. Plus Minato and Naruto directly made a contact of chakra and hence Minato could teleport them.

Minato was in contact with Kyuubi through Gamabunta.
And Minato already said that he needs contact with the target, either physical or through his own chakra.
Take a look.
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What do you see?
From this I analyzed that when Minato found the Kyuubi, he jumped over the kyuubi, standing on him and then summoned Gamabunta. A direct impact out of nowhere. Plus he requested Gamabunta to hold down the fox so that he can gather enough chakra to teleport Kyuubi and the blast. If this is how the sitaution went, then Minato already connected his chakra with Kyuubi. The manga shows that way. Gamabunta appeared directly over the stomped Kyuubi.

But if my analysis is wrong then Gamabunta and Minato must have jumped over the Kyuubi because of Gamabunta's jumping ability.
In any way, he connected his chakra with Kyuubi through Gamabunta.
And as I already said, Minato's jutsu depends upon Minato to whom he wants to teleport either along with him or only the target.
Whereas Izanagi doesn't takes into consideration whether which wounded part of the user must be healed or not.

I believe that Madara didn't use Izanagi to avoid his death. Otherwise, like the illusion fades away, he should have had faded away from Hashirama's eyes. But he didn't means he used something else to avoid his death.
What I believe is that Madara used his MS technique which he never used while battling against Hashirama. That technique might be to avoid a fatal blow. Take look.
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^^^ This image shows Madara's EMS in the last panel. But if you consider this whole page, we would say that he used his EMS to copy the handsigns, Hashirama's was forming.

But check out the next page.
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The time when the story was ending.
Plus the important thing, Madara didn't even activated Sharingan against an opponent stronger than him. What could be the reason? answer : I believe that in the previous page, he used his MS technique on Hashirama to make him convince that Madara died by his hand that night. But Madara escaped while Hashirama remained under that impression. Madara didn't use any clones, otherwise Hashirama could have found it. Madara wanted to make it seem real. And that's how he used his trump card, another MS ability, in this final battle.


Yeah Naruto helped him as well, but still Naruto was trying hard to recover Shikamaru as fast he could. Thanks to Tsunade's tap on the forehead. At the same moment, the whole forcing chakra from Naruto rushed through Shikamaru's body and helped him recover fast. Tsunade was the main who saved Shikamaru.


That's what i'm trying to say , Izanagi doesn't heal something that user got before the Jutsu is activated like Danzo's scratch or Obito's wounds , which means if Sasuke use it on Naruto, the latter won't get his Kyuubi back because he simply lost it before Izanagi was activated.

And that's what i said about FTG , the user can teleport only himself in normal condition but if he is touching something or someone with his chakra or body , then he can teleport them too.

Izanagi allow the user to erase any outcome he doesn't want , which means the user control everything in his body during the Jutsu.

Yes your theory is quite plausible , but i believe that he used Izanagi and a Genjutsu or Hashirama which explains how Madara's corpse didn't disappear from Hahsirama's point of view.


Agreed , but then again a Bijuu extraction isn't like what Shikamaru went through.




Epic thread and I completly agree :)

I would like to see them both relying on their own powers(MS and SM) for time being until they regains their previous borrowed powers(EMS and Kurama).

Repped, thanked and rated: "Excellent"

Thanks bro =D


Bolded : Are you serious!? Did you seriously just say that?! I can accept people saying that BM is borrowed, but sage mode is where I draw the line! Gathering sage chakara is a technique! It is a technique!!!!! Not everyone can do it! It is no different from a jutsu! By your logic, all earth style jutsus are borrowed power because the rocks they use belong to the earth and not the shinobi! By your logic, water style jutsus that are used near a body of water are borrowed power because the water belongs to the body of water! Sage mode is no different. It is actually a technique to gather nature energy! It is something a shinobi must know how to do! They must actually learn it just like you must learn any other jutsu! Pain even once called it "sage jutsu"! It is purely a technique! Techniques that you train for and learn are not borrowed power!!!!! Nature is not a person!!!!


It doesn't matter if its a technique or not , he wasn't born with Nature's energy which mean his body doesn't generate Nature's energy which mean it isn't his power just like Sasuke's current eyes , but it doesn't matter since he can control Nature's energy.


Sasuke looks like he severed his bond to Naruto while saying he'll be the one to delete the past and .



Nope, 3T Sasuke rivals Base Naruto. Sasuke can't effectively use his chidori or it's variations without his sharingan so that would leave kenjutsus, taijutsus, summoning and fire jutsus, Naruto base was able to fight off Deva path (Kage level) off in taijutsu, showed he can counter kenjutsu when he fought the 2 cloud jounins where he blocked one from pulling out their sword while making a clone to catch the other jounin's sword that even made her go "Woah".

Naruto shown to emit wind chakra into a kunai when Asuma taught him so Chidori infused katana wouldn't be effective. Naruto can use Oodama Rasengan barrage that can end Sasuke without the Sharingan to help him evade or counter. For 3T or MS, they go for a strike with kenjutsu or taijutsu then SM would counter and 1 hit them like so .



You do know Sasuke needs the Sharingan to use Kirin right? Kirin is a target destruction attack, he need to read your movements so he can accurately hit you. SM Naruto literally went from point A to point B in seconds when he needed to (When he saved Tsunade from Asura path)

Because Naruto has the Kyuubi , Sasuke wants to get rid of the Bijuu and since Naruto doesn't have one now , i don't see why he wouldn't care for him.

He was able to fight Deva path because it couldn't use its power because of the Cho Shinra Tensei
You're comparing Omoi and Karui to Sasuke ? are you nuts ?
Sasuke's Kenjutsu skills was acknowledged by the Samurais and Mifune himself.
He can't use Odama Rasengan barage in base mode , he need SM to do it , and that's why i let Sasuke with 3T.

Don't bring the MS into the equation because he can defend with Susanoo and Enton shield.
As for 3T Sasuke , he can use Chidori Nagashi to defend himself against that.

And so what ? Kirin's range is huge ( Mountain buster ) and its so fast that its nearly impossible to escape ( Lightning speed ).

Sasuke did that a lot of times too ( early Shippuden against team 7 , against Deidara , against the CS V2 prisoner... ).



The only thing I could argue about all your statements is the following sentence...



Yang is the representation of Lifeforce and Physical Energy (the last one is one of the components of chakra along with Spiritual Energy).

Chakra molding is determined with both Yin and Yang power (Physical Energy + Spiritual Energy).



...if this weren't true, Hashirama's chakra reserves would be incredibly higher than Madara's chakra reserves, but they were almost even in stamina/chakra in the end of the battle in VotE.



---

But don't mind that detail. Your overall logic was quite the sound of good reasoning, and I agree in general terms.

The only thing that I don't like is that Sasuke is very pragmatic, and saving Naruto in this case wouldn't do any good to Konoha from an objective point of view. It's not worth of sacrificing his EMS, even if this is a temporary measure... he would do something more plot-wise, if you catch me. Oh well, that's just my most humble opinion.

Good thread + rep, almost flawless, this was quite worth of my time.

My bad then for the Yang thing =D

That's indeed Sasuke's character , but i don't see why it wouldn't be any good for Konoha. ( can you explain it to me ? )
Anyway , thank you for your feedback ;)
 

Mr Hiru

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That's indeed Sasuke's character , but i don't see why it wouldn't be any good for Konoha. ( can you explain it to me ? )
Anyway , thank you for your feedback ;)

It would be good emotionally, but now Naruto doesn't hold a Bijuu, and Sage Mode alone is nothing against Madara.

It's true Izanagi would revert things to a state before the extraction, but as far as I see, the Bijuu would just be extracted again...

Sasuke's character is one that would destroy the Mazou directly.
 

Ahmed1993

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It would be good emotionally, but now Naruto doesn't hold a Bijuu, and Sage Mode alone is nothing against Madara.

It's true Izanagi would revert things to a state before the extraction, but as far as I see, the Bijuu would just be extracted again...

Sasuke's character is one that would destroy the Mazou directly.

I see .
 

xxSAGExx

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Because Naruto has the Kyuubi , Sasuke wants to get rid of the Bijuu and since Naruto doesn't have one now , i don't see why he wouldn't care for him.

He was able to fight Deva path because it couldn't use its power because of the Cho Shinra Tensei
You're comparing Omoi and Karui to Sasuke ? are you nuts ?
Sasuke's Kenjutsu skills was acknowledged by the Samurais and Mifune himself.
He can't use Odama Rasengan barage in base mode , he need SM to do it , and that's why i let Sasuke with 3T.

Don't bring the MS into the equation because he can defend with Susanoo and Enton shield.
As for 3T Sasuke , he can use Chidori Nagashi to defend himself against that.

And so what ? Kirin's range is huge ( Mountain buster ) and its so fast that its nearly impossible to escape ( Lightning speed ).

Sasuke did that a lot of times too ( early Shippuden against team 7 , against Deidara , against the CS V2 prisoner... )

Because Sasuke severed that bond with Naruto long ago and even talked about how he would kill Naruto the next they meet. Then after being talked to by Hashirama and other Hokages he decided to become Hokage which Naruto has a better chance at currently. He showed jealousy and intentions he's hiding. Even Sai said since he doesn't know Sasuke well that he can look at him objectively and told Sakura he doesn't trust Sasuke and Sakura said she does with a twisted face and Sai said he can tell she's lying and .

Also I wasn't talking about fighting in that sense, I'm talking about taijutsu fighting they had. Deva path was Nagato's most strongest path for more than just his ability.

Yes I'm comparing Omio and Karui, 2 comrades under Bee who overwhelmed Sasuke with his Kenjutsu, to Sasuke. Two Jounins using kenjutus who master is Killer Bee, together, would be more skilled than base Sasuke since Sasuke uses his Sharingan to predict movements and attack accordingly. We saw how Sasuke's taijutsu changed when he went from 2T to 3T, same applies with his Kenjutsu.

Can't use Oodama barrage in base? He made about 200 clones that were making rasengans and applying wind chakra to it (Wind Rasengan), that amount of chakra would be about the same if not more than Oodama rasengan . That's Base Naruto chakra since Yamato was keeping Kurama's chakra at bay. He Can easily make use Oodama rasengan barrage consisting of 10-20 clones when he was making base rasengans and adding even more chakra in the form of wind chakra into the rasengans with 200 clones.

Frog song takes down Susanoo as we say with Kabuto, frog song is even stronger since it paralyzes the body's nerve (so they can't move at all) and their minds. This makes Susanoo a non-issue, especially since Naruto can fuse with them, use dust cloud to hide their position, use SM Senses to pin point Sasuke's location and Shadow clone to increase his numbers and use as a distraction. After Frog Song, FRS will end this. In close combat Naruto 1 hits him as he shown to do to a kage ninja already (Pretha path). Sasuke using Enton on Susanoo would burn it and cause Sasuke to use more chakra to keep Susanoo up. He can have it float on Susanoo but even that requires chakra and takes some focus and if he fall under frog song with Enton up, if can fall on him.

You do know the Uchiha hideout was hallowed inside right? It wasn't a full mountain plus it's a target attack. Sasuke was a few feets from Itachi but was he killed? No cause the damage is done to the targeted area, they were on the roof and what happened when a powerful force hits your roof? It comes down. Sasuke being lightning type wouldn't save him since Kirin is not made from chakra but real lightning so Sasuke should be dead right now if you think it's impossible to escape. He didn't move either, he controlled the Kirin to fall on Itachi and was still in the same area that the blast consumed so Naruto using his Sensor can just dodge before Sasuke sends it down. Sasuke not having the Sharingan makes it harder for him strike someone who would move and SM gives Naruto enhanced Durability, Agility and speed to evade it.

Against team 7, Sasuke didn't meet up with Naruto until after Naruto was weakened from going 4 tails (you can go back and check, Sakura says it when Naruto collapse and Naruto says it when he falls while running in Oro's hideout). I'm not saying base Naruto was on base Sasuke's level cause he wasn't but Naruto would have been able to react to his movements better and if it was before he decided to not use Kurama's power then 4 tails would have beat Sasuke as it did Oro who was using ninjutsus.
 
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Sasuke said that he will be the one to kill Naruto so he might order Karin to heal him
 
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