Isn't Madara essentially correct from a purely philosophical point of view?

[narutoblitz]

At an initial glance of history in the Naruto-verse, Madara is essentially correct that Hashirama Senju and Rikudo's philosophy is a gigantic farce and absolute failure. In real world terms as well, isn't the belief that "people can connect with each other, without saying anything" sort of silly and retarded? The history of mankind simply suggests otherwise.

 

[mikeeozua]

From a philosophical point of view, most antagonists can be considered correct.

-Obito could be considered correct in the sense that the villages would still go to war after this, and that Naruto could make all the promises he want but still possibly fail in the end.
-Nagato could be considered correct in the sense that people can only understand each other through going through the same pain.

 

[S A G E]

Anything good can be used for evil ways if abused since humans are very selfish. Chakra just replaced the weapons or whatever they used to wage war against each other prior to the mom eating the juubi tree fruit.

The thing is the sage wasn't wrong and Madaras ways are still irrational, considering humans will become extinct.

 

[david098]

peace is nothing but a foolish dream. "peace" makes people fat and lazy and which causes more pain madara is right it can never be reached in reality BUT that is good. peace is bad chaos is what we need. chaos is a ladder, it makes us evolve and become stronger and that is our only purpose. evolution is life.

 

[Uzamaki Arlyss]

peace is nothing but a foolish dream. "peace" makes people fat and lazy and which causes more pain madara is right it can never be reached in reality BUT that is good. peace is bad chaos is what we need. chaos is a ladder, it makes us evolve and become stronger and that is our only purpose. evolution is life.

"Peace" is not a foolish dream. Believing one can solely attain "Peace" is foolish. But the "pursuit of peace", I believe, helps keeps us grounded and connected as a society...In truth, we will always need the concept/idea/philosophy of "peace" to help balance our societies.

 

[Mr Hiru]

At an initial glance of history in the Naruto-verse, Madara is essentially correct that Hashirama Senju and Rikudo's philosophy is a gigantic farce and absolute failure. In real world terms as well, isn't the belief that "people can connect with each other, without saying anything" sort of silly and retarded? The history of mankind simply suggests otherwise.

He is still wanting to delete the free will of mankind. He is just a dictator.

 

[Hori 👑]

Anything good can be used for evil ways if abused since humans are very selfish. Chakra just replaced the weapons or whatever they used to wage war against each other prior to the mom eating the juubi tree fruit.

The thing is the sage wasn't wrong and Madaras ways are still irrational, considering humans will become extinct.

You cannot achieve anything if you don't make sacrifices, Armin Alert taught me that U_U

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[SixPathsOfTobi]

At an initial glance of history in the Naruto-verse, Madara is essentially correct that Hashirama Senju and Rikudo's philosophy is a gigantic farce and absolute failure. In real world terms as well, isn't the belief that "people can connect with each other, without saying anything" sort of silly and retarded? The history of mankind simply suggests otherwise.

No it's not silly and retarded.. it's possible.. but we live in a satanist- (madara-) world.. we're being kept from truth being kept in a polarity of fear so we can be controlled. People live in a polarity of fear ignoring truth and living in internal confusion, without selfrule they are ruled externally, causing statism and chaos..

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[Uchiha Samater]

thats the beauty of Madara and more so Obito

Obito is such a well written character, but unfortunately many of the what i assume younger fans can't see, the logic behind their reasoning is sound, but also morally incorrect

but you know blah blah talk no jutsu and all that, and power ups and power downs, kamehameha

 

[vasu 32]

This chapter just made my respect grew more for both Obito and Madara. And naruto's dream and way is not foolish or impossible. Gandhi and us Indians proved it when we won our independence via non-violence,to a great degree,and buried the hatred within. Though peace is momentary and fake as we still are in constant cold war.

 

[valandil988]

This chapter just made my respect grew more for both Obito and Madara. And Naruto's dream and way is not foolish or impossible. Gandhi and us Indians proved it when we won our independence via non-violence,to a great degree,and buried the hatred within. Though peace is momentary and fake as we still are in constant cold war.

The Indians got rid of one enemy before turning inwards on themselves. Muslim vs Hindu no? Its just human nature. How can you fight against human nature without changing humans. Humans can't change on their own not truly, they can as you said bury hate/prejudice deep down inside themselves but its not gone its just suppressed.

Really the sages attempt to create a race of "connected" individuals was doomed to fail before it began, the limited nature of the number of people he could teach (or gift) within his chakra was always going to create a segregation in society between those that have and those that do not have. Not to mention the scale of the experiment was terrible.

A better idea would have been to create an ORDER of peace. An organization capable of mediating and trying its hardest to control human nature. IE basically jedi knights, instead of giving chakra to anyone, he should have gathered like minded individuals that wanted peace for the future to pass on his and their dream to future guardians alongside that power of chakra. But the fact that Chakra became inheritable was terrible he should have found a way to limit it for people to pass on the chakra voluntary to people who were of a similar nature rather than those that are power hungry for powers sake. By keeping his chakra divisions small he could retain potency but also keep the numbers small. They could stop wars instead of joining them.

Ultimately he just messed up and is responsible for even more devastating wars that not only kill more people but destroy the landscape when they happen...

 

[SixPathsOfTobi]

The Indians got rid of one enemy before turning inwards on themselves. Muslim vs Hindu no? Its just human nature. How can you fight against human nature without changing humans. Humans can't change on their own not truly, they can as you said bury hate/prejudice deep down inside themselves but its not gone its just suppressed.

Really the sages attempt to create a race of "connected" individuals was doomed to fail before it began, the limited nature of the number of people he could teach (or gift) within his chakra was always going to create a segregation in society between those that have and those that do not have. Not to mention the scale of the experiment was terrible.

A better idea would have been to create an ORDER of peace. An organization capable of mediating and trying its hardest to control human nature. IE basically jedi knights, instead of giving chakra to anyone, he should have gathered like minded individuals that wanted peace for the future to pass on his and their dream to future guardians alongside that power of chakra. But the fact that Chakra became inheritable was terrible he should have found a way to limit it for people to pass on the chakra voluntary to people who were of a similar nature rather than those that are power hungry for powers sake. By keeping his chakra divisions small he could retain potency but also keep the numbers small. They could stop wars instead of joining them.

Ultimately he just messed up and is responsible for even more devastating wars that not only kill more people but destroy the landscape when they happen...

That's not human nature.. humans aren't even aware of their nature.. that's exactly what gives the powers that be power.. keeping the masses in confusion/ignorance so they will give their power away to them.. telling them this stupidity like it's human nature and stuff obito/madara said there's no such thing as hope just give away your freedom to me and everything will be perfect.. ignorance is bliss..
The goal is to take away consciousness from the masses and let them be controlled like robots.. and they've succeeded very well.. there's no(t much) conscious consumerism in this world, there are no(t much) conscious decisions in this world of the masses.. everything is shoved up to the government.. "if it was bad the government would've made this illegal" all the decisions are made out of fear they don't want to hear truth they just want to party and remain ignorant, they don't want responsibility, they don't want to think at all and if they think it's all within the confines of some fundamental axioms that are indoctrinated/programmed in from the day they were born.. And that's exactly what the satanists that control this world want.. we're just their slaves..

Spoiler

like we were originally made for by them, the annunaki/atlantians/serpent people (not snake like but that means they have mastered genetics, also why orochimaru is a genetecist )

This is the satanist world we live in..

I add this post i posted in another thread..

heck yeah i'm hyped for next week...

"Madara is the one who denies this world. All the ones who follow his ideals and collaborate in the eye of the moon plan are Madara."

This chapter confirmed again that madara is satan and next chapter is 666.

Satan doesn't exist it's an ideal or just something you act like because you're manipulated.. in stead of we are many from one(god) we are one (satan/government) from many. like the eye of the moon plan.. Madara: "everything will become one with me".

Control is all about keeping the controlled in an illusion, (like infinite tsukuyomi) to keep them ignorant of their nature, of reality to keep them in fear for what would happen if their masters weren't there etc.
Ordo ab Chao.. order out of chaos.. they create chaos and then the people will scream for help please help us and then they step up and say okay but we need something in exchange you need to give away your freedom and give us more power.

Fear is illusion.

 

[Uzumakisan]

Yes, Hitler too

 

[eatmentos]

Of course he is. But since the 'good guys' always stick their fingers into their ears when madara/obito speak they cant see it, consequently following their 'believe it!' philosophy. They dont have good reasons, because there are none.
If i understand madara correctly he creates an eternal (dream-)world with everyone inside, the only difference being that people can't do certain things anymore e.g. commit crimes/fights(which by the way is exactly what we want to archieve by putting criminals in jail) I dont see anything wrong with prohibiting things that hurt people.

I do also think that madara resembles satan (this manga really is becoming a bible story), who also actually is the secret good guy in the bible because he revolted against the genocide practicing immoral god

 

[Durante]

Free will is not neccessary for happiness, after all it's just the illusion of choice. Chakra according to Madara is just a tool of war.

There are laws to make society harmonic so we don't destroy each other, Madara's genjutsu is where those laws cannot be bent, because humans wouldn't be capable or in need, thus peaceful. And utopia in reality is unreachable, therefore Madara's answer is the correct answer.

 

[Defendaga]

Of course he is. But since the 'good guys' always stick their fingers into their ears when madara/obito speak they cant see it, consequently following their 'believe it!' philosophy. They dont have good reasons, because there are none.
If i understand madara correctly he creates an eternal (dream-)world with everyone inside, the only difference being that people can't do certain things anymore e.g. commit crimes/fights(which by the way is exactly what we want to archieve by putting criminals in jail) I dont see anything wrong with prohibiting things that hurt people.

I do also think that madara resembles satan (this manga really is becoming a bible story), who also actually is the secret good guy in the bible because he revolted against the genocide practicing immoral god

The problem with this is that it leaves Madara in charge with no one to question his authority, you would simply have to take it on faith that he means well, and even in the case that he does, that those actions are properly suitable. Even given that his plan were to follow through, I would think Obito would be more suitable to this role as he is able to relate to the common person more so than Madara.

Naruto's vision for peace, I take to be a world where everyone can understand one another, for understanding breeds sympathy, and when you really think about it, conflict is the result of not being able to understand one another. It seems that the Sage of Six Paths had that same vision in mind, for he tried to accomplish this by teaching people how to use chakra thus allowing people to connect their spiritual energy together, which would have allowed people to understand one another without even having to talk. Obviously, somewhere along the line something went seriously wrong for Kaguya to have used it as a weapon, which I'm guessing will be a story told later on in the manga.

 

[Jako98146]

peace is nothing but a foolish dream. "peace" makes people fat and lazy and which causes more pain madara is right it can never be reached in reality BUT that is good. peace is bad chaos is what we need. chaos is a ladder, it makes us evolve and become stronger and that is our only purpose. evolution is life.

And this is nihilism

 

[SixPathsOfTobi]

You guys have been pretty well indoctrinated in this satanic world we live in..

knowledge is power.. for the minority that pulls the strings from behind the scenes it's in their best interest to keep people ignorant/stupid.. dissuade them from looking into certain information keep them chained by fundamental axioms that are total bullshit..

when i talk about satan and god i'm not talking about the bible.. god is not singular in the bible it's just talking about persons (atlanteans, which are the satanists)
The first being/consciousness in existence logically has to have existed forever and will never dissapear.. that is god.. we are all part of that, we are all one.
Satan does not exist, government doesn't exist, nothing evil exists, it is something we do, everything evil is perpetuated into this world through failure in thought, which is ignorance, through failure in emotion, which is apathy and through failure in right action, which is cowardness, the one force that gives power to this threefold villany is fear..

When you are in fear you initiate ignorance (refusal of truth) which expresses internally in confusion (internal anarchy) which leads to being externally controlled (external monarchy) and it generates chaos or evil..
When fear sets in we will give our power/freedom away to the least among us, those who seek power and control.
Satanists need to keep people in fear and in ignorance of the facts about themselves and the world around them, cause if most people would seek the truth and find it the world will be instantly a better place without evil..

Nothing government(satan) does creates order, it's all chaos yet that's what people fear.

 

[eatmentos]

The problem with this is that it leaves Madara in charge with no one to question his authority, you would simply have to take it on faith that he means well, and even in the case that he does, that those actions are properly suitable. Even given that his plan were to follow through, I would think Obito would be more suitable to this role as he is able to relate to the common person more so than Madara.

Naruto's vision for peace, I take to be a world where everyone can understand one another, for understanding breeds sympathy, and when you really think about it, conflict is the result of not being able to understand one another. It seems that the Sage of Six Paths had that same vision in mind, for he tried to accomplish this by teaching people how to use chakra thus allowing people to connect their spiritual energy together, which would have allowed people to understand one another without even having to talk. Obviously, somewhere along the line something went seriously wrong for Kaguya to have used it as a weapon, which I'm guessing will be a story told later on in the manga.

The first part i can actually agree with. Madara really seems a bit like a saddist, so his trustworthyness is debatable. On the other hand, he could have everything in his new world without letting anyone else suffer

Concerning narutos way, if the plot didnt already tell us that this understand each other stuff will somehow work i wouldnt even consider the idea as a realistic approach to peace. Like madara said, it never really worked

 

[SixPathsOfTobi]

Concerning narutos way, if the plot didnt already tell us that this understand each other stuff will somehow work i wouldnt even consider the idea as a realistic approach to peace. Like madara said, it never really worked

people (also in narutoworld) don't even understand themselves, let alone each other.