ISIS and India/middle east/pakistan take over

[Avani]

Non aligned movement was a crap. India signed a

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with soviets. Not exactly an ally but that is enough.Soviets had problems with Mao for sometime and USA developed relationships with China though it was for a short time. The Russia is seeking strengthen its relationship with China recently as it got ditched by west after Ukraine issue.

Pak officially gave it to China

And India has permissions in Vietnam,There are hell lot of gaps that is to be filled by India counter China.

Honestly I am not sure an average Indian cares about survival of his civilization/nation or is aware of it even if has most may not have proper knowledge to draw a conclusion over it.Every day I hope to deal with one less retard IRL but these people make me loose hope in humanity.Idk what has cursed this place or will it ever be free of it.

Yea that was the result of increasing US pressure on India, the war of 1965 and nuclear blackmail. wasn't it? And that treaty was mostly because we needed weapons and they were selling it. I have to brush up the details on that one.

 

[Wabbit]

Manusmriti struck India too hard. Its the root of most problems in India. Even though Indians don't follow it today, it has done a lot of damage to this country and we are still not over its effects.

One guy cant be blamed for everything moreover nobody cares about it these days.The only one who cares about religion/cast is the government,seriously who recognizes you by your religion or cast these days.That would be the last thing anyone asks,but you can blame the education system though >_>. I encounter lot of delusional ppl,I can be delusional my self but some are too much.

Yea that was the result of increasing US pressure on India, the war of 1965 and nuclear blackmail. wasn't it? And that treaty was mostly because we needed weapons and they were selling it. I have to brush up the details on that one.

Similar interests..geopolitical interests bought countries together.US and Pak and India and USSR.Idk about the nuclear blackmail by US but they did helped initially to set up nuclear deterrence to Pak.Selling F 16 able to carry nukes

India activated the soviet treaty in 1971 war after US sent its carrier group to aid Pak but soviet subs trailed it away.

 

[Sherlock.]

One guy cant be blamed for everything moreover nobody cares about it these days.The only one who cares about religion/cast is the government,seriously who recognizes you by your religion or cast these days.That would be the last thing anyone asks,but you can blame the education system though >_>. I encounter lot of delusional ppl,I can be delusional my self but some are too much.

It wasn't just one man. It was the worst propaganda our country has ever faced.
I know nobody cares about it these days but but.... Reservations, Pseudo Secularism, Caste based politics, Honour killings, Prejudices, etc still exist.
Of course our generation is a lot better but it still continues to thrive in a lot of less developed parts of the country and eat the nation from within.

 

[Avani]

Manusmriti struck India too hard. Its the root of most problems in India. Even though Indians don't follow it today, it has done a lot of damage to this country and we are still not over its effects.

Actually that's kind of unfair ... For we never followed it completely.

Manusmriti had it's plus points which are not mentioned that often.

Original Manusmriti is not available anymore but it's many pieces are collected as quotes in other books. The book was no worse than the codes prevalent in the rest of the world at the time for 1 and better than Hammurabi code in many ways. A lot of internationals laws of human rights of today almost seem to be adopted from it. For example:

One reason that Indian kings were less brutal in wars was Manusmriti. Though it became a problem when dealing with foreign invaders who had "everything is fair in a war" policy.

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It is true that it treated people of different caste/Varna ( caste is not exactly varna but that's for some other discussion) differently. But it didn't always work in favour of the upper caste.

For example if a lower caste person insulted an upper caste his penalty was higher. But in return the upper casts were expected to follow a higher code of conduct as well. That means a lower caste person got less punishment for same crime but it increased as the level of the varna went up. For the same crime a sudra could just get some fine, jail time etc but it would gradually increase for higher ones.

I have forgotten many details for it's been years since I read about it but check the book out objectively rather than making up conclusions. One thing more- the list of harsher punishments in the book was probably only to deter people because there is almost no evidence that they were practically applied that way ever.

It wasn't just one man. It was the worst propaganda our country has ever faced.
I know nobody cares about it these days but but.... Reservations, Pseudo Secularism, Caste based politics, Honour killings, Prejudices, etc still exist.
Of course our generation is a lot better but it still continues to thrive in a lot of less developed parts of the country and eat the nation from within.

Honour killing - take a map of India. And mark the regions where it's prevalent and then check the history of those regions and actually what kind of communities live there. You will find most of these concentrated in certain regions.

Rest is vote politics.

 

[Sherlock.]

Actually that's kind of unfair ...

Manusmriti had it's plus points which are not mentioned that often. And in fact it was better at Hammurabi code in many senses.

Original Manusmriti is not available anymore but it's many pieces are collected as quotes in other books. The book was no worse than the codes prevalent in the rest of the world at the time for 1 and better than Hammurabi code in many ways. A lot of internationals laws of human rights of today almost seem to be adopted from it.

It is true that it treated people of different caste/Varna ( caste is not exactly varna but that's for some other discussion) differently. But it didn't always work in favour of the upper caste.

For example if a lower caste person insulted an upper caste his penalty was higher. But in return the upper casts were expected to follow a higher code of conduct as well. That means a lower caste person got less punishment for same crime but it increased as the level of the varna went up. For the same crime a sudra could just get some fine, jail time etc but it would gradually increase for higher ones.

I have forgotten many details for it's been years since I read about it but check the book out objectively rather than making up conclusions.

I read it(not full I'll be honest) a few years(2 I think) ago but it had a lot of negative things and it gave the vibe of a rule book/law that outright favored one class of people and treated others like low lives. Maybe I read a version where the author exaggerated but it is definitely true that the caste system is the biggest reason that people in our country suffered for so many years. People had to pick an occupation based on their caste rather than what they wanted to do or what they were capable of for a lot of decades. Its simply wasting talent or trampling over others ambitions by not letting people do work based on merit cause they were born into XYZ caste. While the first original Manusmriti might be untainted but later many people abused it to suit their purposes. Without the caste/varna the whole population would be on equal plain and people would get equal opportunities in those ages. Indian civilization started pretty early and was really amazing and advanced compared to their counterparts but today we their descendants are behind others in technology. I honestly feel we could have done better without a caste system. People would have worked together and continued to make scientific advances like ancient Indians did. I like reading about ancient India and I always scratch my head on how the hell a civilization that started so well ended up in the current state it is. The answer I always come to is caste system and how it has had repercussions on the country throughout. And Manusmriti being the text that lays down rules about the system I think that one book has done quite a lot of damage even if the original author never intended it to.

 

[Rand al'Thor]

Politics is killing us tbh. And India and China will never be ally. Not in a 1000 years. The problem imo, is that India is too passive in its stance. Its not aggressive like other countries, hence the feeling that we can bully them. Sad really.

 

[Avani]

I read it(not full I'll be honest) a few years(2 I think) ago but it had a lot of negative things and it gave the vibe of a rule book/law that outright favored one class of people and treated others like low lives. Maybe I read a version where the author exaggerated but it is definitely true that the caste system is the biggest reason that people in our country suffered for so many years. People had to pick an occupation based on their caste rather than what they wanted to do or what they were capable of for a lot of decades. Its simply wasting talent or trampling over others ambitions by not letting people do work based on merit cause they were born into XYZ caste. While the first original Manusmriti might be untainted but later many people abused it to suit their purposes. Without the caste/varna the whole population would be on equal plain and people would get equal opportunities in those ages. Indian civilization started pretty early and was really amazing and advanced compared to their counterparts but today we their descendants are behind others in technology. I honestly feel we could have done better without a caste system. People would have worked together and continued to make scientific advances like ancient Indians did. I like reading about ancient India and I always scratch my head on how the hell a civilization that started so well ended up in the current state it is. The answer I always come to is caste system and how it has had repercussions on the country throughout. And Manusmriti being the text that lays down rules about the system I think that one book has done quite a lot of damage even if the original author never intended it to.

I read the part where it deals with laws mostly in law school.

As for caste- I agree with basic fact that no matter how it came to be it was misused and exploited in worst ways in practice and got worse( than worst if possible) with time.

Yet Manusmriti was not the only source of it nor the only reason that it stayed. I will get on it when I am little less tired. Blaming one person for all the problems when we didn't follow everything he said means we picked and chose what to do and what not to do based on our own consciousness. We pride ourselves of our tolerance and high moral codes on the field of war ( and give him no credit) but when it comes to caste we blame him only.

 

[Sherlock.]

I read the part where it deals with laws mostly in law school.

As for caste- I agree with basic fact that no matter how it came to be it was misused and exploited in worst ways in practice and got worse with time.

Yet Manusmriti was not the only source of it nor the only reason that it stayed. I will get on it when I am little less tired. Blaming one person for all the problems when we didn't follow everything he said means we picked and chose what to do and what not to do based on our own consciousness. We pride ourselves of our tolerance and high moral codes on the field of war but when it comes to caste we blame him only.

I agree with some of the things you say. Morally compromised people would have distorted and used something else if not Manusmriti to do their bidding but I still feel it was abused kinda too much.

 

[Avani]

I agree with some of the things you say. Morally compromised people would have distorted and used something else if not Manusmriti to do their bidding but I still feel it was abused kinda too much.

Caste as it exists today- needs to be get rid of it. Kind of needed the reforms for a few centuries now but that's also partly because we became rigid for a great while and thought nothing but survival.

"The very fact that the institution of caste has survived about 3,000 years is a clear proof of the services which it must have rendered to the Hindu society in different periods of history. It is the caste system that has been largely responsible for the preservation of Hindu religion and culture. The caste brotherhoods, on account of their policy of exclusiveness, did not mix with the foreigners. So the Greeks, Huns or Muslims could not conquer Hindu culture. On the contrary, most of these foreigners were themselves absorbed into the Hindu fold."

(source: No Full Stops in India - By Mark Tully).

"The Caste system has only organized the disparities created by historical forces and movements. By doing so, it has done great good by reducing the competition of the diversities, by freezing them within certain limits, and by making each not only legitimate but even moral.....It canalized competitions and helped the coexistence of elements which otherwise would have been at war. It was a social system specially suited to a country like India, which history has made into a warehouse of civilizations, and a couloir and cul-de-sac of diverse people and cultures." He emphasized that if he considered the caste system in any danger - which he does not - he would add, "Please do not pulverize a society which has no other force of cohesion, into amorphous dust."

(source: The Continent of Circe - By Nirad C. Chaudhari

Every caste had a large measure of autonomy, with its own judiciary, duties and privileges, and often its own temples. Inter-caste affairs were settled at the village council by consensus; even the lowest caste had veto power. This autonomy of intermediate levels of society is the antithesis of the totalitarian society in which the individual stands helpless before the all-powerful state. This decentralized structure of civil society and of the Hindu religious commonwealth has been crucial to the survival of Hinduism under Muslim rule. Whereas Buddhism was swept away as soon as its monasteries were destroyed, Hinduism retreated into its caste structure and weathered the storm.

Caste also provided a framework for integrating immigrant communities: Jews, Zoroastrians and Syrian Christians. They were not only tolerated, but assisted in efforts to preserve their distinctive traditions.

Nineteenth-century Westerners projected the colonial situation and the newest race theories on the caste system: the upper castes were white invaders lording it over the black natives. This outdated view is still repeated ad-nauseam by anti-Hindu authors: now that "idolatry" has lost its force as a term of abuse, "racism" is a welcome innovation to demonize Hinduism. In reality, India is the region where all skin color types met and mingled, and you will find many brahmins as black as Nelson Mandela. Ancient "Aryan" heroes like Rama, Krishna , Draupadi, Ravana (a brahmin) and a number of Vedic seers were explicitly described as being dark-skinned.

Finally, caste society has been the most stable society in history. Indian communists used to sneer that " India has never even had a revolution." Actually, that is no mean achievement.

(source: Why the Christian missionaries attack the institution of caste and in particular the brahmin caste? - By Koenraad Elst).



(source: The Power of India - By Michael Pym p. 152- 153).

Don't confuse it as a support for the system or apologist approach. Just pointing out that things were not that simple.

"Caste is the secret of that amazing stability which is characteristic of the Indian social structure. It is the strength of Hinduism. Naturally, it can be abused. The moment a Brahmin treats a sweeper cruelly because he is a sweeper, he departs from his Brahminhood. He becomes a usurper and a social danger. And in due course, he will have to pay for this mistake. Because men are imperfect, and because power is a deadly intoxicant, such abuses may and do occur, but they are not inherent in the institution – they are contrary to its principles, though they may be inherent in the make up of the individual.

Caste in itself is also a protection for the individual, because it permits group action. The reason why a Hindu dreads being outcaste is analogous to the reason why, in England say, a worker would dread being thrown out of his trade union.

The part in red is why we are having hard time getting rid of it. It suits people in a group.

 

[Sherlock.]

Caste as it exists today- needs to be get rid of it. Kind of needed the reforms for a few centuries now but that's also partly because we became rigid for a great while and thought nothing but survival.




(source: No Full Stops in India - By Mark Tully).



(source: The Continent of Circe - By Nirad C. Chaudhari




(source: Why the Christian missionaries attack the institution of caste and in particular the brahmin caste? - By Koenraad Elst).


Don't confuse it as a support for the system or apologist approach. Just pointing out that things were not that simple.

Nah I won't. Everything has both +s and -s.
I must confess though, like it was mentioned in one of the above quotes, our ancestors have done a really good job to protect and pass on some of the amazing traditions we have.

 

[Conspirator.]

India has a slightly better chance of being allies with China than it does with Pakistan. Seriously, most of India's neighbors dislike them.(talking about the governments)

 

[Sherlock.]

For now, I see India forming a strong alliance with Japan.

 

[Wabbit]

Lol what this discussion turned into.This thread should have been closed for being retarded >_>

 

[Kushina Chan]

For now, I see India forming a strong alliance with Japan.

yeah you are right India is forming alliance with Japan(my 2nd favorite country)

India has a slightly better chance of being allies with China than it does with Pakistan. Seriously, most of India's neighbors dislike them.(talking about the governments)

no you are wrong in this Pakistan is ally with China i know cause i am from here

 

[KingHashirama]

You have good ideas KH but you cant actually grasp the situation here .... India isnt America, people here suffer 10-20 times more than the poor of your country and thus doesnt have the luxury of considering the ideals. They would follow any path that seems to offer a more comfortable life to them and thus corrupt politicians are elected. Only way to combat this is through actually making them understand.



Actually with our democracy one man can not do shit, as soon as he goes full sensible they would lose support. (Let me tell you some funny stories: 1. The Indian Railway was running on loss, so the current government decided to hike the fares a bit, immediately there is protests that the givernment doest care for the common people ... while totally ignoring the fact that if the loss sustains then the Railway employees would be affected too and at our place the Privatization will actually cost more in practical. Like BSNL which is nearly going down the drain after privatisation in WB. 2. In our sate, there is order to open optimally priced grocery stores at every market .... but in effect there was only a handful that opened for 2-3 days. The middlement and others didnt follow the order bcos of their greed.) ..... Infact a good hearted dictator would be a better choice.



Sigh .... Hope is the best thing we can do.



Let that dragon be buried for now, cos no matter how they address it, it will be twisted into something abominable...... there are already some embers of dissent growing, and the Palestine scenario is trying to flame it.

@Bold, yea i have noticed that also x-x.

hm.. never thought of the leader thing that way. Only problem with the dictator is america has their head shoved in democracy's ass for India to have a dictator. This is a common law for the ages, for 1 civlization to rise or 1 country to rise, other must decline in power. And since, India's hope for cleaning up the system is a dictator type of a leader (which can happen through the current system also), i highly doubt western countries would let it happen.

Yea but you can't let the dragon go unaddressed. Ok there is one thing i have noticed that i like about the indian culture (well mostly punjabi, idk that much about any other. ) is that apologizing is a big thing and part of the religions and so on. However, its not implamented. Things would be so much better if people could say sorry. For example, sikhs are never going to forget 1984. Hindus who live in punjab, are not going to forget the hindus that were killed by the "Pakistani impersonators". To me, if all religions in india got in 1 link, it would be a way better country, that would be ruled by morals and so on.

 

[-Phoënix Flower-]

China having an alliance with India? Hell no :|