Is Tobirama inferior to Minato ?

[Avinash012]

Ok, so basically people are saying Minato is faster and better at FTG so Tobirama is inferior?.. aiight

I don't think so & having more no of tech's isn't a factor as well , u should have already knw that IMO...

Tobirama VS Minato battle would be pretty much same as Obito vs Minato which is basically Speed VS Speed in which Minato is superior ,also Tobirama has no jutsu that can keepup with thire Speed where as Minato has Rasengan...

 

[Penguin]

With pleasure ...but b4 doing that plz explain the meaning of Reaction/Reflexes in u r opinion...

Reflexes are using you're reactions to react to an opponent.

I have read the manga just like you, so no scan is going to convince me as I presume you will get the KCM Minato ones with Tobirama. Obito's S/T is better than Minato's. This was confirmed by both Minato and Kakashi later. Minato was able to react to this S/T and use FTG. If those are not the best reaction rates, then I don't know what are.

To each his own then.

 

[Tobby17]

I don't think so & having more no of tech's isn't a factor as well , u should have already knw that IMO...

Tobirama VS Minato battle would be pretty much same as Obito vs Minato which is basically Speed VS Speed in which Minato is superior ,also Tobirama has no jutsu that can keepup with thire Speed where as Minato has Rasengan...

no it wouldn't, Tobirama doesn't use Kamui so FTG V2 wouldn't work on him, Tobirama is very capable of reacting to Minato's shunshin even though Minato is faster than him, Tobirama's FTG isn't any slower than Minato's. So yeah other factors would have to play into it like who can use other justus. Minato has Rasegan, but how does he hit Tobirama with Rsengan?. Tobirama has Suiton but his Suiton isn't currently good enough to hurt Minato. Minato has sealing justus, but his sealing justus as far as I'm concerned will not work on Tobirama. So Minato has summonings, Tobirama has Edo Tensei..

Sry I just don't see how one is inferior to the other

 

[Avinash012]

Reflexes are using you're reactions to react to an opponent.



To each his own then.

Yes and IMO in Naruto world :

U r reflexes are Supposed to help u to save urself from Enmy while landing a hit on him or at least help u to Escape from enmy with No/Min damage....

Now show me a scan where Tobirama doing something like that while Obito tryng to attack him....

 

[ReverseZero12]

Tobirama lacks in the offensive department. He hasn't shown any offensive feats that put him above minato at the moment, especially BM Minato. He's proficient with FTG but without any offensive feats, he's definitely not above minato unless we see some good ones.

 

[Touken]

Yes and IMO in Naruto world :

U r reflexes are Supposed to help u to save urself from Enmy while landing a hit on him or at least help u to Escape from enmy with No/Min damage....

Now show me a scan where Tobirama doing something like that while Obito tryng to attack him....

That's not the definition of a reflex/reaction.

Anyway, there's literally no point carrying this on; I believe they both have been portrayed as equals in the manga and although Minato might beat Tobirama, there are opponents only the latter can beat and vice-versa. Hopefully we get some kind of clarification by Kishi on who's the stronger.

 

[Tobby17]

huh maybe i was a bit too harsh

a bit too harsh??.. More like arrogant douche who thinks he's better than everyone and decides to sound condescending because he has put better ''arguments''

 

[Avinash012]

no it wouldn't, Tobirama doesn't use Kamui so FTG V2 wouldn't work on him, Tobirama is very capable of reacting to Minato's shunshin even though Minato is faster than him, Tobirama's FTG isn't any slower than Minato's. So yeah other factors would have to play into it like who can use other justus. Minato has Rasegan, but how does he hit Tobirama with Rsengan?. Tobirama has Suiton but his Suiton isn't currently good enough to hurt Minato. Minato has sealing justus, but his sealing justus as far as I'm concerned will not work on Tobirama. So Minato has summonings, Tobirama has Edo Tensei..
Sry I just don't see how one is inferior to the other

Not really, he has never shown avoiding attacks from a faster Enmy ..How can Tobirama avoid Rasengan from someone who is supirior to Tobirama in Every speed based aspect..?
How can having equal no of jutsu can make them even in the first place..?
Minato has FTG and Naruto has SC so Minato can't beat Naruto right..?

TObirama has EDO's..?

Have any Idea what are Tobirama's EDO's..?
Have any Idea abt thire abilities ..?
Have any Idea how many EDO's does Tobirama can summon..?

Only thing that we knw abt EDO is nothing but he can use that blast which takes considerable time and It can't help him against Minato...

That's not the definition of a reflex/reaction.

Anyway, there's literally no point carrying this on; I believe they both have been portrayed as equals in the manga and although Minato might beat Tobirama, there are opponents only the latter can beat and vice-versa. Hopefully we get some kind of clarification by Kishi on who's the stronger.

That is not actual def and Ultimatly meaning is same no matter how u look at it...If u have a proper reason to disagree with me then Plz explain the reason

 

[Tobby17]

Not really, he never shown avoiding attacks from a faster Enmy ..How can Tobirama avoid Rasengan from someone who is supirior to Tobirama in Every speed based aspect..?
How can having equal no of jutsu can make them even in the first place..?
Minato has FTG and Naruto has SC so Minato can't beat Naruto right..?

TObirama has EDO's..?

Have any Idea what are Tobirama's EDO's..?
Have any Idea abt thire abilities ..?
Have any Idea how many EDO's does Tobirama can summon..?

Only thing that we knw abt EDO is nothing but he can use that blast which takes considerable time and It can't help him against Minato...



That is not actual def and it is not a school ...Ultimatly meaning is same no matter how u look at it...If u have a proper reason to disagree with me then Plz explain the reason

it can help against Minato's summonings no???.. Madara said that Edo Tensei was used to clear out the battlefields. You can't do that with just one or two edos surely?????..

Minato can't beat Naruto bcoz Naruto has sage mode, KCM. Actually he has BSM now,can fire multiple bijuu damas, has more chakra and can outlast Minato if it comes to that (OP was referring to base Minato). Naruto also has frog summoning etc. So I don't get what your point is..

and yes just bcoz Minato is faster doesn't mean he can hit Tobirama with a Rasegan, what kind of logic is that?. Except you are implying that Tobirama cannot react to Minato's speed??

 

[Erebus]

Tobirama > Minato in my opinion, that is to me, i mean people say tobirama is hyped but if u read thru nb u'll see minato is hyped more, even more on this from what i've read here.

 

[Xlad]

Don't know. Tobirama seems to be more quick witted an intelligent than Minato. He pretty much can react and respond to different situations. But Minato's is more skilled with speed and FTG. I may have to go with Minato.

 

[Avinash012]

it can help against Minato's summonings no???.. Madara said that Edo Tensei was used to clear out the battlefields. You can't do that with just one or two edos surely?????..

Minato can't beat Naruto bcoz Naruto has sage mode, KCM. Actually he has BSM now,can fire multiple bijuu damas, has more chakra and can outlast Minato if it comes to that (OP was referring to base Minato). Naruto also has frog summoning etc. So I don't get what your point is..

and yes just bcoz Minato is faster doesn't mean he can hit Tobirama with a Rasegan, what kind of logic is that?. Except you are implying that Tobirama cannot react to Minato's speed??

U didn't get my point Iam talking abt u r way jutsu canceling ..

Yes Tobirama can't react to Minato's attack just like Obito and Ay they can see the attack coming at them but everything they can do is nothing but to recive the attack from Minato...
Show me a scan where Tobirama avoides that kind of Attack them I'll dfntly admit that Tobirama can avoid Minato's Rasengan...Minato is not only faster but his reaction time is unparalled as well

 

[-Punk-]

Tobirama already admitted inferiority towards Minato .

And Minato > Tobirama .

 

[Retsu]

it can help against Minato's summonings no???.. Madara said that Edo Tensei was used to clear out the battlefields. You can't do that with just one or two edos surely?????..

Minato can't beat Naruto bcoz Naruto has sage mode, KCM. Actually he has BSM now,can fire multiple bijuu damas, has more chakra and can outlast Minato if it comes to that (OP was referring to base Minato). Naruto also has frog summoning etc. So I don't get what your point is..

and yes just bcoz Minato is faster doesn't mean he can hit Tobirama with a Rasengan, what kind of logic is that?. Except you are implying that Tobirama cannot react to Minato's speed??

Are you talking about when Madara made this comment after suicide bombing with the meteor?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

That was confirmed to be a bad translation, he was talking about the meteor and was commenting on the fact that since they're edo they'll come back. and you can see the meteor did in fact kill the caster himself, Madara.

 

[Touken]

An IC Tobirama would never use Edo anyway since he himself labelled it kinjutsu.

@Avinash, this is the definition of a reflex:
'an action that is performed without conscious thought as a response to a stimulus.'
In Naruto, the stimulus would be an attack launched by the enemy, e.g. V2 Ay attempting to blitz Minato and his reflexes allowed him to FTG away. It was only due to Minato's reflexes that he was able to react to the stimulus (V2 Ay). Now, if your reflexes aren't good enough then your body will not react to a stimulus that is too sudden, or too quick. Tobirama and Minato's reflexes are on par from what we've seen in the manga; Tobirama's reflexes allowed him to react to a stimulus that was very quick, and a stimulus that even Naruto didn't register. This stimulus was Juubito.

You must be registered for see links

Minato reacted to a stimulus that was just as quick, not V2 Ay since Juubito is far above V2 Ay in speed, but Obito's Kamui.

I really don't know how to lead on from this because it's a bit difficult defining what reflexes are in Naruto.

 

[Gold Lightning]

He had freaking "FLEE ON SIGHT" orders in a war!!!

That's good enough for me

 

[Avinash012]

An IC Tobirama would never use Edo anyway since he himself labelled it kinjutsu.

@Avinash, this is the definition of a reflex:
'an action that is performed without conscious thought as a response to a stimulus.'
In Naruto, the stimulus would be an attack launched by the enemy, e.g. V2 Ay attempting to blitz Minato and his reflexes allowed him to FTG away. It was only due to Minato's reflexes that he was able to react to the stimulus (V2 Ay). Now, if your reflexes aren't good enough then your body will not react to a stimulus that is too sudden, or too quick. Tobirama and Minato's reflexes are on par from what we've seen in the manga; Tobirama's reflexes allowed him to react to a stimulus that was very quick, and a stimulus that even Naruto didn't register. This stimulus was Juubito.

You must be registered for see links

Minato reacted to a stimulus that was just as quick, not V2 Ay since Juubito is far above V2 Ay in speed, but Obito's Kamui.

I really don't know how to lead on from this because it's a bit difficult defining what reflexes are in Naruto.

Like I said ..it is pretty much same not matter what...

"I said that Reflexes are supposed to help u to avoid attack while attacking enmy or atleast avoiding attack...."

Glad u have mentioned that fight :

"Minato avoided Ay's attack bcoz of his reflexes means that he protected himself from Ay and at the same time he attempted to attack him "
I don't knw how u r def is any dif from mine...as for Tobirama's part he never avoided Obito's attack... what is the point of doing that when he is alive..?

Let us assume that Ay is an EDO and Minato managed to stab him with Kunai, it is easy for Ay to attack Minato in that condition despite of being Inferior to Minato interms of reflexes since Minato's attack has no effect on Ay, ofcourse he should have good reflexes to do that but there is no need to be on Minato's level in this case..Tobirama's case is same..

Don't know. Tobirama seems to be more quick witted an intelligent than Minato. He pretty much can react and respond to different situations. But Minato's is more skilled with speed and FTG. I may have to go with Minato.

I don't think so, both of them can outsmart eachother in a battle but Tobirama is more experienced and has more knwldge than Minato

 

[Tobby17]

Are you talking about when Madara made this comment after suicide bombing with the meteor?

Spoiler

You must be registered for see images

That was confirmed to be a bad translation, he was talking about the meteor and was commenting on the fact that since they're edo they'll come back. and you can see the meteor did in fact kill the caster himself, Madara.

yes ofcourse he was talking about the Meteor, what else was he talking about?

He said they didn't have to worry about the Meteor bcoz they would revive anyways, and used the way Tobirama uses his Edo Tensei as an example. so NO there is not translation error

 

[Tobby17]

U didn't get my point Iam talking abt u r way jutsu canceling ..

Yes Tobirama can't react to Minato's attack just like Obito and Ay they can see the attack coming at them but everything they can do is nothing but to recive the attack from Minato...
Show me a scan where Tobirama avoides that kind of Attack them I'll dfntly admit that Tobirama can avoid Minato's Rasengan...Minato is not only faster but his reaction time is unparalled as well

Are you seriously implying that Minato is faster than Ay without FTG???.. NO, Minato desn't have this kind of speed. And b4 you bring me a scan of Minato saving Naruto from Obito, that doesn't count at all. That's him simply gathering chakra up and using Shunshin, same thing that Hanzo does. Does that mean Tobirama cannot react to Hanzo's speed. Even Kakashi, Genma moved almost instantly in part 1 when Neji was about to kill Hinata, does that mean that Tobirama cannot react to their normal speed??

Everybody is capable of doing this, Minato does NOT have Ay like speed

 

[Penguin]

Before I make my post, I just want everyone to know that prior to the attack, Juubito has not shown any speed. No one knew how fast Juubito was, so that is why Hashirama and Tobirama were blitz'd.

You must be registered for see links

Again, no one knew what to expect with Juubito. Hashirama's clone was blitz'd, and Tobirama was blitz'd, from the start.

You must be registered for see links

This is a paramount feat. During the near instant Juubito's blitz, Tobirama recovered after being completely surprised. With one half of a body, and under milliseconds to think of a plan, Tobirama pulls through and thought of one. Tobirama, with only one hand, tagged Jubito thrice with explosive tags, along with one Hiraishin mark. That is an outlandish feat.

You must be registered for see links

^ El oh el.

You must be registered for see links

Notice this is Minato, who is millimeters away from the attack he noticed first, in a KCM cloak which increases speed and reactions. Next manga page he just stares at it in awe, when presumably Tobirama takes chase for it. On the third page Minato still has not teleported the bomb away, with his amazing reactions.

You must be registered for see links

Finally, Tobirama just doesn't care anymore and takes the mini TBB and shoves it in Rikudobito's face.

You must be registered for see links

^ Tobirama.

You must be registered for see links

Minato screams Naruto like a Sakura while Tobirama acts and saves Naruto with Sarutobi.

You must be registered for see links

Tobirama then proceeds to run after Naruto, leaving that clown Minato in the dust.

#RuffledFeathers

You must be registered for see images

I think sums up most of it.