Is the Leaf village run by morons?

[xxSAGExx]

Ok this question has to do with 3 different things I noticed about the Leaf government.

1. Promoting Genin to Chunin
As you know during the Chunin Exams in part 1 only Shikamaru was promoted to chunin. But the speech Hiruzen gives after the Chunin prelim battles, makes it seem that anyone at anytime during the finals could be promoted. Promotions are decided by village ninja and daimyo or their respective nations. Now we know that Sasuke, Naruto and Neji were not promoted despite the 3 of them fighting at chunin level and all being recognized for their talent.

My question is why weren't they promoted? The Chunin exams are not just about promoting Genin but also maintaining military strength. Seeing how Kakashi and Itachi were able to make Jonin and Anbu at the same age as Part 1 Neji, Naruto and Sasuke; it seems odd the Leaf council didn't promote them. You have 3 ninja (2 confirmed geniuses) who are heirs to 3 of the 4 strongest founding clans of the Leaf village; Uzumaki/Senju (Naruto), Hyuga (Neji), Uchiha (Sasuke). Who does it help to sideline rising talent/future defenders and money makers for the village by continuing to give them D-rank missions? Catching cats and pulling weeds out of gardens are not the best use of any of the aforementioned Genin's skills.

In part 1 and 2 you have chunin such as Kotetsu, Izumo, Iruka, and Mizuki. Fodder ninja with limited applications who somehow got promoted to chunin. How? Who is making decisions for promotions in the Leaf Village?!


2. Why did no one train Naruto to control the Kurama in the Leaf village? Gaara learned to control and use Shukaku, Yugito and Bee learned to control and use the 2 tails and 8 tails, Yagura was the Mizukage and jinchuriki of the Hidden Mist; presumably he could control the 3 tails and so on and so forth. Why did the Leaf village seem totally in the dark about instructing Naruto to use Kurama's chakra? It's not like it was some sort of secret who the jinchuriki was in the Leaf. How does every other village have a way to temper a jinchuriki but the Leaf was lost on the whole thing?


3. Why does Kakashi never use his Sharingan to suppress the 9 tails chakra? Instead he relies on Yamato + 1st Hokage necklace and Jiraya seal stamps. Obito put the nine tails under genjustu with one sharingan (his natural), Sasuke suppressed Kurama with 3T sharingan, Madara tamed the 9 tails with his MS/EMS. We know Danzo impanted both sharingan and hashirama cells so he could potentially control Naruto in the future, but why does Kakashi never use his sharingan to that effect? It's not like it's a secret to Leaf higher ups what the sharingan can do to tailed beasts. Guess he was too lazy to try.

1. Being a chunin means you have to have the mind of a chunin and know how to lead a team. Naruto wasn't mentally ready, Sasuke fought Naruto and looked like he wanted to kill Naruto as Kakashi commented so Kakashi mentioning that to Tsunade and the fact that Sasuke left Konoha with the sound 4 the next day caused him not to be promoted. Neji lost and didn't show any chunin mentality as Shikamaru did; he also showed to be mentally affected by how the main branch treat the second branch.

2. Who would have trained Naruto to learn how to use Kurama? Naruto didn't have the Hokages necklace until when Tsunade was introduced and Yamato wasn't introduced until Shippuden and Naruto went off to train with Jiraiya who was training him to use Kurama's powers. Naruto being the Jinchuuriki was also made taboo so no one could have talked about it and the village was already damaged by Kurama when Obito controlled him and Hiruzen couldn't handle full Kurama when he had other ninjas backing him up and he was 12-13 years younger than when Naruto was Genin. The only prefect Jins were Bee and Yagura according to Mei; Cloud village experimented with how to control the 8 tails is how they knew how to do it with Bee.

3. Kakashi is not a Uchiha, Itachi already said Kakashi can't use the Sharingan as well as a true Uchiha. Sasuke only suppressed a small portion of a caged Kurama chakra while Obito and Madara fully controlled full wild Kurama. Well I think the fact that Danzo felt like he needed Hashirama's DNA along with the Sharingans show that a non-Uchiha can use only the Sharingan to control a Bijuu.

 

[xxSAGExx]

This about Naruto not being chūnin material is so f-cking retarded people should feel ashamed if they agree with that.

1. Not every chūnin leads a team. In fact, the vast f-cking majority don't.
2. Naruto beat his opponent, Neji, who was a genius, and then beat Gaara and saved his comrades as well as the village.
3. Naruto was acknowledged and taken on as an apprentice by Jiraiya, one of Konoha's living legends at the time.
4. Naruto had signed the toad contract, i.e. he became a serious asset to Konoha.

There was every damn reason for Naruto to be promoted to chūnin. The reason he wasn't was because Kishimoto chose not to.

Chunins need to have the mind to not only lead teams but handle missions alone since they can be sent on low level missions alone, can become teachers at the academy, take on paperwork, be the gate guards. Can you honestly say that Naruto can handle these responsibilities alone? Naruto cannot handle that.

 

[Char Aznable]

Leaf Chunin we see in part 1 don't suspend enough disbelief that Genin could possibly do their jobs.

Kotesu and Izumo are Hokage assistants (basically glorified secretaries) and chunin examiners.

Iruka and Mizuki were teachers at the Academy.

While Iruka and Mizuki are teachers in charge of teaching kids the fundamentals before they are passed on to a jonin leader. Kotesu and Izumo are desk jockies. Ninja Warriors of Konoha's Chair Force if you will. Rereading the chapters of the chunin exam, I get the feeling that they only expose platitudes about what a chunin is, when the reality of being a ninja in the field in much different than that. Honestly, it would make more since for a Jonin squad leader to be in charge of his own team's rank appointments.

 

[SuperChief]

Chunins need to have the mind to not only lead teams but handle missions alone since they can be sent on low level missions alone, can become teachers at the academy, take on paperwork, be the gate guards. Can you honestly say that Naruto can handle these responsibilities alone? Naruto cannot handle that.

When have you ever seen
Sakura
Ino
Chōji
Kiba
Shino
Hinata
Tenten
Rock Lee

do any of that shit? Get the f-ck outta here.

 

[RicardoA]

Yet the village remained the strongest of the five until Oro's attack and is about to become the strongest again once this war ends. They could be morons, that their system still worked throughout the history regardeless, and that's what matters.

1) They weren't promoted because they didn't show a certain level of maturity necessary to become Chunin.
Shikamaru kept his cool every time and though about the best way to handle a situation, being multiple steps ahead on both times he fought. He had skills that allowed him to lead a team properly and handle any situation accordingly. That's what got him his promotion more than anything.
Sasuke risked too much in his first match and in the second one acted kinda cocky. There was also the quest for revenge and Oro lurking around.
Neji had an outlook on life that eventually caused his defeat and made him think in a arrogant and pessimistic way.
Naruto didn't care about danger but he didn't care about planning either. He'd give everything he got in one shot and faith in god if he could.
None of them was as subtle and effective as Shikamaru.

Kotetsu, Izumo, Iruka and Mizuki look useless because they don't have a place in the story, not because they're unskilled. You have to think about things in context.

2) Konoha (Hiruzen) most likely didn't want to treat him as a weapon, much like Tsunade.
They were the strongest village regardeless and there were no wars going on. Maybe they just didn't feel like harnessing more military strenght.
What would be the point when it was an era of peace for everyone?

3) Are you comparing Kakashi to a real, full blood Uchiha? Right now its not quite the ridiculous comparison, but there used to be a difference until this war happened.

 

[Char Aznable]

Yet the village remained the strongest of the five until Oro's attack and is about to become the strongest again once this war ends. They could be morons, that their system still worked throughout the history regardeless, and that's what matters.

1) They weren't promoted because they didn't show a certain level of maturity necessary to become Chunin.
Shikamaru kept his cool every time and though about the best way to handle a situation, being multiple steps ahead on both times he fought. He had skills that allowed him to lead a team properly and handle any situation accordingly. That's what got him his promotion more than anything.
Sasuke risked too much in his first match and in the second one acted kinda cocky. There was also the quest for revenge and Oro lurking around.
Neji had an outlook on life that eventually caused his defeat and made him think in a arrogant and pessimistic way.
Naruto didn't care about danger but he didn't care about planning either. He'd give everything he got in one shot and faith in god if he could.
None of them was as subtle and effective as Shikamaru.

Kotetsu, Izumo, Iruka and Mizuki look useless because they don't have a place in the story, not because they're unskilled. You have to think about things in context.

2) Konoha (Hiruzen) most likely didn't want to treat him as a weapon, much like Tsunade.
They were the strongest village regardeless and there were no wars going on. Maybe they just didn't feel like harnessing more military strenght.
What would be the point when it was an era of peace for everyone?

3) Are you comparing Kakashi to a real, full blood Uchiha? Right now its not quite the ridiculous comparison, but there used to be a difference until this war happened.

Idk about the Leaf being the strongest before Oro's attack. Seeing Ay, Bee, Cee, Darui, Omoi, and Karui in action gives me pause when comparing to the jonin and Kage of the Leaf. I see why Hiruzen folded under the pressure of the Hidden Cloud during the Hyuga affair. There was no way Hiruzen could take Ay and Bee. Hiruzen didn't land a hit on Orochimaru during their fight. Minato solo'ed Ay and Bee during the 3rd Ninja war no prob, but Hiruzen? He was just an appeaser who was looking to avoid any serious conflict against rival villages. Look at how Hiruzen handled Oro's threat during the chunin exams. An entire month went by from the beginning to the end of the exams and Hiruzen just sat on his hands and waited till Oro made his move. Worst Hokage EVER.

But even the Leaf Elders weren't too bright. Wanting to restrict Naruto's movements and hinder his development. The only person who recognized Naruto's potential was Danzo and while Danzo had sinister motives. He did recognize Naruto's potential as an asset to the village. Naruto being an Uzumaki/Senju naturally has 4x the chakra of a jonin like Kakashi. With Kurama Naruto has 100x more than a jonin/kage.



However I could see Naruto not being mature enough to deserve a rank bump, BUT his prowess in battle (against Neji and Gaara) more than make up for it. Let's not forget what happended to Kakshi's father when he failed to complete a mission by opting to protect his comrades. Something Izumo and Kotesu said is necessary for a chunin (and jonin by extension). Naruto sees any mission through to the end. That should matter just as much as knowing when to cut in run. You can't have a string of failed missions and still be called a good shinobi. Besides Kakashi and Hiruzen, none of the other Leaf Shinobi know about Sasuke's vengeance vendetta. So it would count against him in the grading.



With Kakashi and his sharingan, there is never a reason given as to why he can't use it to genjutsu or suppress a jinchuriki. Kakashi's eye copies, casts genjutsu and protects him from non MS genjutsu. It functions like every other Uchiha's sharingan. There is never any dialogue in the manga stating you need Uchiha blood or chakra to suppress a tailed beast. It's always just genjutsu to take control of the user (Obito to Yagura) or the beast itself (Madara and Sasuke on Kurama).

 

[Darkakatsuki]

Here's the biggest problem with the chunin selection process.
Phase 1 is an intelligence gathering and pressure test.
Phase 2 is a survial test in a dangerous location where your objective is to find a matching scroll and not die.
Phase 3 is a tournament set like the Budokai's from Dragonball.

Once you make it to phase 3, it is your combat ability and aptitude that the genin are judged on. Not the genin's previous 2 challenges. Doesn't that seem counter intuitive to anyone else? Yeah, your job as a ninja is to faithfully, stealthy and efficiently carry out your mission. But we're judging you now on how well you fight one on one in a closed arena against another opponent. And even if you win every fight, there is still no guarantee you'll be promoted.

The final phase of the chunin exams just seems dumb, if anything the survival test/phase 2 should be the pass or fail test genin are judged on.

At the end of the day, your combat abilities and battle aptitude are the most important, stealth and mathematics aint gonna do you any good when the enemy has caught on to you or during times of war. There's nothing wrong with how they judged it in my opinion. The people judging the tournament already know you passed the first two rounds otherwise you wouldn't be in the tournament phase in the first place, so they know you passed stealth and mental aptitude, they probably have their scores with them at the time (like how many times you got caught cheating in the first round and how long it took you to finish the second round), so your argument seems really mundane to me. It's pretty obvious that the judges aren't simply basing it on fighting alone, they are basing it on everything.

 

[RicardoA]

Idk about the Leaf being the strongest before Oro's attack. Seeing Ay, Bee, Cee, Darui, Omoi, and Karui in action gives me pause when comparing to the jonin and Kage of the Leaf. I see why Hiruzen folded under the pressure of the Hidden Cloud during the Hyuga affair. There was no way Hiruzen could take Ay and Bee. Hiruzen didn't land a hit on Orochimaru during their fight. Minato solo'ed Ay and Bee during the 3rd Ninja war no prob, but Hiruzen? He was just an appeaser who was looking to avoid any serious conflict against rival villages. Look at how Hiruzen handled Oro's threat during the chunin exams. An entire month went by from the beginning to the end of the exams and Hiruzen just sat on his hands and waited till Oro made his move. Worst Hokage EVER.

When did you see Karui in action? Lol
Its not about how many strong characters we've seen, the manga isn't a vs colosseum. Kumo only took over because Konoha suffered two invasions. Before that Konoha was always recognized as the strongest.
Hiruzen didn't touch Oro? Then how do you explain the fact that Oro lost his arms during that battle? Hiruzen also had to handle two relenteless zombies which happened to be previous Hokage.
Minato soloed Ay and Bee? (

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Hiruzen seems pathetic because the plot requires him to be. It doesn't change the fact that he made the worst decisions next to Tobirama, but in the narutoverse there's only good things to be said about him.
And lets not forget Kabuto's

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. Ay > Hiruzen? I think not.

But even the Leaf Elders weren't too bright. Wanting to restrict Naruto's movements and hinder his development. The only person who recognized Naruto's potential was Danzo and while Danzo had sinister motives. He did recognize Naruto's potential as an asset to the village. Naruto being an Uzumaki/Senju naturally has 4x the chakra of a jonin like Kakashi. With Kurama Naruto has 100x more than a jonin/kage.

The elders didn't want anything. Hiruzen wanted to protect Naruto from discrimination and wanted Minato to be remembered as an hero, so he named Naruto "Uzumaki" and forbid everyone from speaking to him about Kurama.
Danzo and the elders' mentality wasn't shared by Hiruzen. The later saw Naruto as a person, not as a weapon.
Power stopped being a priority after the 3rd war ended, the world was living an era of peace and Konoha was ready to move on, unlike the Cloud and as a consequence the Rock as well. The Sand focused on creating a small group of very skilled shinobi but given their status as the weakest and poorest village, it was only understandable.

However I could see Naruto not being mature enough to deserve a rank bump, BUT his prowess in battle (against Neji and Gaara) more than make up for it. Let's not forget what happended to Kakshi's father when he failed to complete a mission by opting to protect his comrades. Something Izumo and Kotesu said is necessary for a chunin (and jonin by extension). Naruto sees any mission through to the end. That should matter just as much as knowing when to cut in run. You can't have a string of failed missions and still be called a good shinobi. Besides Kakashi and Hiruzen, none of the other Leaf Shinobi know about Sasuke's vengeance vendetta. So it would count against him in the grading.

I think you missed the point, its not about balancing one thing with the other. The 'judges' seemed to be looking for leadership skills more than anything, Shikamaru happened to fit the requirements perfectly.
Even if the other three were fit to be Chunin, they were still too unstable and flawed, not to mention they had tons of potencial and could improve a lot more.

With Kakashi and his sharingan, there is never a reason given as to why he can't use it to genjutsu or suppress a jinchuriki. Kakashi's eye copies, casts genjutsu and protects him from non MS genjutsu. It functions like every other Uchiha's sharingan. There is never any dialogue in the manga stating you need Uchiha blood or chakra to suppress a tailed beast. It's always just genjutsu to take control of the user (Obito to Yagura) or the beast itself (Madara and Sasuke on Kurama).

Does it even matter? Its a fact that he can't do anything about Jinchuuriki, even imperfect ones like Naruto who didn't have the slightest control.
So far only Madara and Obito successfully controlled Kurama, but these two can do anything. Don't reduce them to Kakashi's level.

 

[Char Aznable]

The elders didn't want anything. Hiruzen wanted to protect Naruto from discrimination and wanted Minato to be remembered as an hero, so he named Naruto "Uzumaki" and forbid everyone from speaking to him about Kurama.
Danzo and the elders' mentality wasn't shared by Hiruzen. The later saw Naruto as a person, not as a weapon.
Power stopped being a priority after the 3rd war ended, the world was living an era of peace and Konoha was ready to move on, unlike the Cloud and as a consequence the Rock as well. The Sand focused on creating a small group of very skilled shinobi but given their status as the weakest and poorest village, it was only understandable.

The problem with Hiruzen's actions is that he lacked direction for Naruto. He's not Naruto's parent or guardian but as the jinchuricki, Naruto is an asset/liability to the village. Hiruzen seemed negligent on how Naruto was to develop. The other villages at least stewarded their jin's even though not all of them were liked. Naruto in the Leaf was left to twist in the wind. And it's not like Hiruzen's edicts about talking about the 9 tails did any good. Most if not all teen or adults at the time know who the jinchuricki was before Naruto (Kushina) and nearly everybody except the kids knew Naruto was the present host. The same thing can be said about who Naruto's father was. Worst kept secret in the Leaf.

@Bold: Thanks for reminding me. If Gaara's father could create gold dust, how was the sand village still poor?

I think you missed the point, its not about balancing one thing with the other. The 'judges' seemed to be looking for leadership skills more than anything, Shikamaru happened to fit the requirements perfectly.
Even if the other three were fit to be Chunin, they were still too unstable and flawed, not to mention they had tons of potencial and could improve a lot more.

^Fair enough. Although it is odd that only Shikamaru was promoted. The Leaf lost a number of ninja during Oro's invasion and were shorthanded. It's why Shikamaru was placed in charge of the genin team to retrieve Sasuke. Kakashi and presumably all the other jonin's were out of the village doing missions when Sasuke left. Remember the part of the chunin exams is about maintaining military strength of each village. If the Leaf was short on Jonin's and Chunin after an invasion, then the logically it would be prudent to advance your genin prospects. Just like in a real military when there is a shortage of officers. You promote senior enlisted men to higher ranks. Sasuke and Neji could handle that responsibility. Post-rasengan Naruto likewise could handle to extra weight also. He did pancake the Kakashi level Kabuto after all.

 

[RicardoA]

The problem with Hiruzen's actions is that he lacked direction for Naruto. He's not Naruto's parent or guardian but as the jinchuricki, Naruto is an asset/liability to the village. Hiruzen seemed negligent on how Naruto was to develop. The other villages at least stewarded their jin's even though not all of them were liked. Naruto in the Leaf was left to twist in the wind. And it's not like Hiruzen's edicts about talking about the 9 tails did any good. Most if not all teen or adults at the time know who the jinchuricki was before Naruto (Kushina) and nearly everybody except the kids knew Naruto was the present host. The same thing can be said about who Naruto's father was. Worst kept secret in the Leaf.

@Bold: Thanks for reminding me. If Gaara's father could create gold dust, how was the sand village still poor?

Naruto was a kid and didn't promised much with his apparent lack of skill and talent.
We already saw what it took to tame the Kyubi, Hiruzen couldn't know Minato sealed a portion of his and Kushina's chakra together with half the fox and Kurama could've been freed meanwhile.
Like hell Konoha would take such risk, especially when there's the strongest Bijuu in question and they already experienced first hand the consequences of a Bijuu running wild.

Good question Lol
Well, maybe that was the only thing keeping the sand in the game. That and their alliance with Konoha.
Also, that only happened during the 4th Kazekage's reign, the others couldn't do such thing.

^Fair enough. Although it is odd that only Shikamaru was promoted. The Leaf lost a number of ninja during Oro's invasion and were shorthanded. It's why Shikamaru was placed in charge of the genin team to retrieve Sasuke. Kakashi and presumably all the other jonin's were out of the village doing missions when Sasuke left. Remember the part of the chunin exams is about maintaining military strength of each village. If the Leaf was short on Jonin's and Chunin after an invasion, then the logically it would be prudent to advance your genin prospects. Just like in a real military when there is a shortage of officers. You promote senior enlisted men to higher ranks. Sasuke and Neji could handle that responsibility. Post-rasengan Naruto likewise could handle to extra weight also. He did pancake the Kakashi level Kabuto after all.

That wouldn't solve Konoha's problem though. They would still be Genin with Chunin and Jonin level abilities, if that makes sense.
Sasuke and Neji had issues. One had Oro after him and was mentally unstable, the other got his ass beat because of his arrogant self and Lol at Naruto, him beating Kabuto was nothing but luck and a plot necessity (not trying to make excuses by mentioning the plot or claiming its not legit, but its true), that wouldn't happen twice in the same conditions.
They didn't show anything capable of leading a group properly. And that was essencial. Shika set the bar too high.