Maybe the Uzumaki clan was a third clan formed by the two sons... The Uzumaki clan had incredeible powers indeed. Why they are so good for sealing bijuus? Because thay got that power from the Rikudoo. Good theory bro
As for the third clan option, it's not possible for a simple reason. Uchiha's ancestor had in his dojutsu uzumaki's sumbol therefore it was something which was passed on to the next generation from the previous one meaning from father to son which points towards the sage being uzumaki scenario.
can u read? i said SDO's theory was wrong...which i assume SDO means sir derp obito...and than what i said about your theory is that i dont get what you trying to say why dont u tell me now with a conclusion paragraph
Oops sorry about that. I'm trying to say that the fact that the sage wasn't called an uzumaki means nothing since at that era there was no one with chakra and clans started to get devided based on their special abilities once they got chakra. Till then, they were all humen, all the same. Then I tried to prove that there are many similarities between sage's special abilities and uzumaki and I used Kurama's statement as proof of recoginising Naruto's seal, uzumaki's seal as sage's one. Also the fact that his older son, the third person who got to have chakra had in his dojutsu the uzumaki's sumbol points toward the direction that the sage was uzumaki's ancestor and therefore uzumaki himself since, the visual prowess was something that was passed from father to son and since at that there were no clans with special abilities other than senju and uchiha, uzumaki's symbol can't have been passed to his older son by no one else other than his father himself.
Correct, I never stated that it was fact and that's why I put the tag "theory". The point is if it makes sense or not and ofc in case someone says it's not, I do expect an explanation, not jsut mere words without any reasoning.
Have you even consider the fact, that the sage's family is a ROYAL FAMILY??? rikudo mom was a princess which makes rikudo, royalty a prince of sorts, has the uzumaki clan ever found to be royal??
So his name was revealed and it's Ootsutsuki Bagoromo.
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So according to this, Bagoromo was from Ootsutsuki clan, right? In this page, it is stated that Bagoromo was the first person who was born with chakra which leads to the conclusion that his clan, and every other clan, had as members mere humen till that moment, correct?
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I want to ask you a question: Based on what do we define each clan that came after sage? Based on its signature abilities such as Nara clan. Since Bagoromo had two sons, shouldn't they also have his name, the name of his clan which is Ootstsuki? However they're only known as senju and uchiha ancestors. Why is that? Because it's their abilities that made them differ as their special traits. Senju's strong body and livability, uchiha's strong visual prowess. That explains why those 2 clans were known as the most fearsome since they were the first people, after the sage who got to have chakra.
My point is that the sage himself belonged to a clan which till that moment had as clan members mere humen. However what if by becoming the jinjuuriki of the 10 tails, got abilities which were traits only to him? We know for a fact that he was the only person to have the rinnegan so that makes him special right? What else do we know about him? We know that he survived the extraction of a tailed beast, the progenitor of them to be specific, we know that he knew some powerful sealings, we know that he was a monk who was seaking peace as well as that he had some powerful lifeforce. Aren't all these things undeniable facts so far?
Now I would like to make a comparison with another clan: the uzumaki clan. Apart from the rinnegan part, all the other traits I said aren't characteristics of the specific clan as well?
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Question, why did Kurama recognize sage's sealing at naruto and why the uzumaki mask in order to be activated needed to be in front of the uchiha tablet, a tablet which was written by the sage himself and why does his older son's dojutsu bears a great similarity to the uzumaki symbol and why does he sit in a throne with uzumamki's symbols?
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How can you explain that the first uchiha ancestor, a man from ootsutsuki clan, has uzumaki's symbol in his dojutsu, since according to you, uchiha and senju were the very first 2 clans with chakra and therefore uzumaki were non-existent but yet we see the very first sage's son having it in his dojutsu?
I think that you know where I'm getting with it.
As I stated before, clans that came when chakra started to appear were probably defined by their very special abilities. However, in sage's case, all clans were the same because they didn't have chakra they were just mere humen. However, the fact that the sage was the first person who was born with chakra as well as the fact that he became the first jin gave him special traits ( I support that the sage did get rinengan from the Juubi but that's not the subject here).
So my question to you is this: Why all the things we know about the sage, his sealing techiques, the capacity of living even after the extraction, him being a monk as well as what I said about his older son and about Kurama reconnaisance of Naruto's seal don't point towards the fact that the sage, that the very first person with chakra, who had in fact the traits of uzumaki, wasn't the uzumaki ancestor?
Explain me how the third person who ever had chakra, sage's older son got to have as dojutsu's symbol the uzumaki symbol something which according to you was not even existent back then.
An excellent theory as always and I read it twice . I think Kishi is brain washing people so they wouldn't find out the epic truth and your theory proves it . Shut up and take my Rep .
So his name was revealed and it's Ootsutsuki Bagoromo.
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So according to this, Bagoromo was from Ootsutsuki clan, right? In this page, it is stated that Bagoromo was the first person who was born with chakra which leads to the conclusion that his clan, and every other clan, had as members mere humen till that moment, correct?
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I want to ask you a question: Based on what do we define each clan that came after sage? Based on its signature abilities such as Nara clan. Since Bagoromo had two sons, shouldn't they also have his name, the name of his clan which is Ootstsuki? However they're only known as senju and uchiha ancestors. Why is that? Because it's their abilities that made them differ as their special traits. Senju's strong body and livability, uchiha's strong visual prowess. That explains why those 2 clans were known as the most fearsome since they were the first people, after the sage who got to have chakra.
My point is that the sage himself belonged to a clan which till that moment had as clan members mere humen. However what if by becoming the jinjuuriki of the 10 tails, got abilities which were traits only to him? We know for a fact that he was the only person to have the rinnegan so that makes him special right? What else do we know about him? We know that he survived the extraction of a tailed beast, the progenitor of them to be specific, we know that he knew some powerful sealings, we know that he was a monk who was seaking peace as well as that he had some powerful lifeforce. Aren't all these things undeniable facts so far?
Now I would like to make a comparison with another clan: the uzumaki clan. Apart from the rinnegan part, all the other traits I said aren't characteristics of the specific clan as well?
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Question, why did Kurama recognize sage's sealing at naruto and why the uzumaki mask in order to be activated needed to be in front of the uchiha tablet, a tablet which was written by the sage himself and why does his older son's dojutsu bears a great similarity to the uzumaki symbol and why does he sit in a throne with uzumamki's symbols?
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How can you explain that the first uchiha ancestor, a man from ootsutsuki clan, has uzumaki's symbol in his dojutsu, since according to you, uchiha and senju were the very first 2 clans with chakra and therefore uzumaki were non-existent but yet we see the very first sage's son having it in his dojutsu?
I think that you know where I'm getting with it.
As I stated before, clans that came when chakra started to appear were probably defined by their very special abilities. However, in sage's case, all clans were the same because they didn't have chakra they were just mere humen. However, the fact that the sage was the first person who was born with chakra as well as the fact that he became the first jin gave him special traits ( I support that the sage did get rinengan from the Juubi but that's not the subject here).
So my question to you is this: Why all the things we know about the sage, his sealing techiques, the capacity of living even after the extraction, him being a monk as well as what I said about his older son and about Kurama reconnaisance of Naruto's seal don't point towards the fact that the sage, that the very first person with chakra, who had in fact the traits of uzumaki, wasn't the uzumaki ancestor?
Explain me how the third person who ever had chakra, sage's older son got to have as dojutsu's symbol the uzumaki symbol something which according to you was not even existent back then.
Great theory but i still believe that he isn't an Uzumaki especially after reading Hirodora's post , sorry i can't rep but i'll gives this thread 5 stars.
As for the third clan option, it's not possible for a simple reason. Uchiha's ancestor had in his dojutsu uzumaki's sumbol therefore it was something which was passed on to the next generation from the previous one meaning from father to son which points towards the sage being uzumaki scenario.
when was it confirmed that the uzumaki symbol is in the uchia ancestors dojutsu..thats just speculation by compareing pictures..not to metnion there are similarites to the two symbols but there are also diffrences.. and the sage is already proven to not being an uzumaki. if he created the uzumaki which is aslo just speculation..that still means he wasnt an uzumaki from birth
Oops sorry about that. I'm trying to say that the fact that the sage wasn't called an uzumaki means nothing since at that era there was no one with chakra and clans started to get devided based on their special abilities once they got chakra. Till then, they were all humen, all the same. Then I tried to prove that there are many similarities between sage's special abilities and uzumaki and I used Kurama's statement as proof of recoginising Naruto's seal, uzumaki's seal as sage's one. Also the fact that his older son, the third person who got to have chakra had in his dojutsu the uzumaki's sumbol points toward the direction that the sage was uzumaki's ancestor and therefore uzumaki himself since, the visual prowess was something that was passed from father to son and since at that there were no clans with special abilities other than senju and uchiha, uzumaki's symbol can't have been passed to his older son by no one else other than his father himself.
thats seems like its all based on the fact the the elder sons dojutsu has the uzmaki symbol..which isnt proven. and according to that logic... the uzumaki clan couldve got the symbol from the elder sons dojutsu rather than the son getting it from the uzumaki..btw the uzumaki symbol is spiraling in a diffrent direction than the sages sons eye and it has less spirals..
Apparently the OP doesn't realize that the Elder Son nor his children were Uchiha and the same goes for the Younger Son and the Senju.
The Senju and Uchiha clans formed after the their direct Ootsutsuki bloodline had become diluted. The Uzumaki are descended from the Younger Son just like Senju.
I see your point in there, but the assumption about "there were no clans before that time" is bulletproof when you add the word "shinobi" behind "clans", and you should see with no difficulty what I'm getting at.
...yes... there were no shinobi at that time, because the Sage is the Ancestor of Shinobi, HE WAS THE FIRST, and this is manga fact. He was the once who revealed the secrets of ninjutsu, he is the founder father of the use of chakra.
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I can see through you argument. It's obvious that you want to state the existence of clans previous to the Sage's era, and well, that "may" be the case.
You said something interesting in there too...
I want to ask you a question: Based on what do we define each clan that came after sage? Based on its signature abilities such as Nara clan.
If it was not for this reason, then the reason should be naturally due geography and demography. There had to be local leaders that were able to lead group of people so the chaos could be controlled, this is a historic cyclic pattern.
So, the possibility of the existence of clans before the sage is high, BUT... these are not shinobi clans, or better said, these are not ninja clans, because in order to be ninja, you must know ninjutsu (or at least one of the three disciplines involved).
Until now, we know that the Uchiha, Hyuuga, Uzumaki, Senju, Kaguya, Hagoromo, Nara, Sarutobi, and so on are SHINOBI CLAN, so it doesn't make sense to refer to them as existing clans before the sage era, because these are "shinobi" clans, and stating their existence is a contradiction to a fact presented in Ch 646 p9: The sage was the founder of ninjutsu.
What I want to say with this, is even if these clans existed previous to the sage with other names or even the same names, (except Uchiha and Senju for obvious reasons) these were not shinobi clans, ergo, they were not the same clans as the ones presented in the current context. They are far distincts.
So, for the sake of common sense, it would be sane to not keeping relationships between the Sage and clans as "The Sage is Uzumaki" or "Hyuuga" or whatever. The only real fact here is that he is the founder of ninjutsu, the founder of the use of chakra, and there are a good possibility that he didn't only had two sons, but other sons that created the shinobi clans (and even so, he may have brothers with chakra too). So in theory, he may be the ancestor of all shinobi clans, Uzumaki included, but HE IS NOT UZUMAKI.
no the uzumaki's are related to the senjus only they have a strong life-force like the younger son
the younger had the sage's physical energies and the older had the spiritual energies getting these both makes you have the rinnegan
the uzumki's dont have the sage's spiritual energies
Great theory but i still believe that he isn't an Uzumaki especially after reading Hirodora's post , sorry i can't rep but i'll gives this thread 5 stars.
when was it confirmed that the uzumaki symbol is in the uchia ancestors dojutsu..thats just speculation by compareing pictures..not to metnion there are similarites to the two symbols but there are also diffrences.. and the sage is already proven to not being an uzumaki. if he created the uzumaki which is aslo just speculation..that still means he wasnt an uzumaki from birth
I see your point in there, but the assumption about "there were no clans before that time" is bulletproof when you add the word "shinobi" behind "clans", and you should see with no difficulty what I'm getting at.
...yes... there were no shinobi at that time, because the Sage is the Ancestor of Shinobi, HE WAS THE FIRST, and this is manga fact. He was the once who revealed the secrets of ninjutsu, he is the founder father of the use of chakra.
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I can see through you argument. It's obvious that you want to state the existence of clans previous to the Sage's era, and well, that "may" be the case.
You said something interesting in there too...
If it was not for this reason, then the reason should be naturally due geography and demography. There had to be local leaders that were able to lead group of people so the chaos could be controlled, this is a historic cyclic pattern.
So, the possibility of the existence of clans before the sage is high, BUT... these are not shinobi clans, or better said, these are not ninja clans, because in order to be ninja, you must know ninjutsu (or at least one of the three disciplines involved).
Until now, we know that the Uchiha, Hyuuga, Uzumaki, Senju, Kaguya, Hagoromo, Nara, Sarutobi, and so on are SHINOBI CLAN, so it doesn't make sense to refer to them as existing clans before the sage era, because these are "shinobi" clans, and stating their existence is a contradiction to a fact presented in Ch 646 p9: The sage was the founder of ninjutsu.
What I want to say with this, is even if these clans existed previous to the sage with other names or even the same names, (except Uchiha and Senju for obvious reasons) these were not shinobi clans, ergo, they were not the same clans as the ones presented in the current context. They are far distincts.
So, for the sake of common sense, it would be sane to not keeping relationships between the Sage and clans as "The Sage is Uzumaki" or "Hyuuga" or whatever. The only real fact here is that he is the founder of ninjutsu, the founder of the use of chakra, and there are a good possibility that he didn't only had two sons, but other sons that created the shinobi clans (and even so, he may have brothers with chakra too). So in theory, he may be the ancestor of all shinobi clans, Uzumaki included, but HE IS NOT UZUMAKI.
Well what you said from what I said don't really differ except from the fact that I include in clan's meaning even the shinobi whereas you presented it as 2 complete different things, which I don't really they are but rather today's shinobi were a part of those clans back then. As for having more than 2 sons, I believe you're right and in fact I believe that he had specifically one more uzumaki son (since I support that he was uzumaki's clan ancestor after all). It's true that I don't have very strong evidence however don't you find suspicious the similarities the sage had with the uzumaki as a clan specifically both in terms of abilities and philosophy? And what about Kurama recognising Naruto's seal as Sage's? You didn't say a thing about that.
So from all my theory you just took that part and nullify everything else? Well then tell me how Kurama recognised naruto's seal, who was an uzumaki, as sage's one?
no the uzumaki's are related to the senjus only they have a strong life-force like the younger son
the younger had the sage's physical energies and the older had the spiritual energies getting these both makes you have the rinnegan
the uzumki's dont have the sage's spiritual energies
Well then I'm returning to my first point. How does the sage bear such a strong resemblance to uzumaki both in terms of abilities and philosophy since according to you uzumaki were non-existent at those days. Another question: If you what you say is correct then explain me how Kurama recognised Naruto's seal, an uzumaki's seal, as sage's one? If uzumaki much later how he himself used an uzumaki seal?
Have you even consider the fact, that the sage's family is a ROYAL FAMILY??? rikudo mom was a princess which makes rikudo, royalty a prince of sorts, has the uzumaki clan ever found to be royal??
Well as I said, if he was the very first uzumaki, you can't really use as arguments his background as otsutsuki. Instead if you see the futre uzumaki, don't they have powerful sealing techniques and aren't there priests as well? The sage brought a new philosophy as a monk which does coincide with uzumaki's deep religious appearances.
Great read and theory..Now since we have been informed that the Sage of the 6th comes from Royal lineage..What i want to know is more on the Uzumaki clan besides the lil things that have been divulged about them..A few pages would be very informative
Great read and theory..Now since we have been informed that the Sage of the 6th comes from Royal lineage..What i want to know is more on the Uzumaki clan besides the lil things that have been divulged about them..A few pages would be very informative
Well as how it is right now, very few things are known for the uzumaki, we should wait and see. I'm sure Kishi will more about them when the time comes.
Well what you said from what I said don't really differ except from the fact that I include in clan's meaning even the shinobi whereas you presented it as 2 complete different things, which I don't really they are but rather today's shinobi were a part of those clans back then. As for having more than 2 sons, I believe you're right and in fact I believe that he had specifically one more uzumaki son (since I support that he was uzumaki's clan ancestor after all). It's true that I don't have very strong evidence however don't you find suspicious the similarities the sage had with the uzumaki as a clan specifically both in terms of abilities and philosophy? And what about Kurama recognising Naruto's seal as Sage's? You didn't say a thing about that.
About clans: It's a point I had to put on the table so we could enstablish a nexus. There is a huge difference between Sage's Era Clans and Current: Current Clans have chakra and can use ninjutsu, ergo, they can be named shinobi clans.
Please, remember that the Uzumaki Clan Main feature is their "large Chakra Pool". This was not possible before the Sage's Birth. So before the Sage's Era, if there existed the Uzumaki Clan, I assure you, they were normal persons that didn't even have something to do with chakra... the sage was the first one to wield chakra from birth, after all.
About posts: Yes, indeed our posts are very alike.
About similarities between the Sage and the Uzumaki Clan: Yes yes, there are a lot of similarities. Even the fruit that the princess Kaguya ate, the source of chakra, had the Uzumaki spiral pattern. But this supports the theory of the sage being the ancestor of Uzumaki, so I agree.
But... there are other similarities between the sage and other clans as well, for example...
Doujutsu: Uchiha Clan
Lifeforce: Senju Clan
Birth with Chakra in body: Every clan
In other words, I assure you... if the Sage had brothers, he and his brothers are the source of all shinobis in the current time. The sage of six paths is slighty different due two things... he became the Juubi Jinchuuriki, and he created the Senju and the Uchiha clan. But that's all.
If we base the argument of similarities, I could even say that the Sage is Uchiha because he share traits with the Uchiha Clan. But the truth is that the Sage share similarities with a lot of special traits of all clans.
